Nurse wanting to become a Doctor

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gorillaRN

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Hey there everybody. Let me start by saying I graduated in May from Nursing school and have been working in an ICU. For about the last year I have been having second thoughts and have decided to take my MCAT in December/January. I had originally entered into Nursing school wishing to become a Nurse Anesthetist (Which I still do wish to become). But I have always dreamed of becoming a Doctor of Emergency Medicine. So, before I go off (and since the requirements for CRNA and D.O. school are very similar) I have decided to take the MCAT to see if I would be able to get into medicial school. I know that if I were to get in, I would do well, it is just the getting in that worrys me.

I was a Chemistry major in college the first two years, so I have Org. and Inorg. Chem (I do have to retake the second semester of both lectures (VERY STUPID COLLEGE KID!)). But I have no problem retaking classes.

I was just wondering what kind of MCAT score I would need and if there are any D.O. schools that are more catering to Nurses and former health practitioners? I plan on taking my MCAT and if I do very poorly continuing my plan of CRNA, but I have to try for medical school first. Emergency Medicine is what I love to do, and if I didn't try I would be asking what if the rest of my life. Thank you for your time and reading this, any advice would be very much appreciated.


F.Y.I - I graduated college with a 3.35 GPA and a 3.8 in my Nursing Degree. I recieved a "D" in the lecture of my General Chemisty and Organic Chemistry (Bad student as well as back instructors = bad grade). I know these were awful mistakes, but they were very early in my student career.
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A suggestion that will cost you nothing to try is the free on-line MCAT practice test. I used the test to gauge where I was 3 years ago when trying to decide on med school versus PA school. You can find it at:

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/practicetests.htm

Be aware that the MCAT is heavily based on those general and organic chemistry courses that you struggled with before. You might want to retake those courses and have it fresh in your mind before attempting the paid for version of the test.
 
gorillaRN said:
Hey there everybody. Let me start by saying I graduated in May from Nursing school and have been working in an ICU. For about the last year I have been having second thoughts and have decided to take my MCAT in December/January. I had originally entered into Nursing school wishing to become a Nurse Anesthetist (Which I still do wish to become). But I have always dreamed of becoming a Doctor of Emergency Medicine. So, before I go off (and since the requirements for CRNA and D.O. school are very similar) I have decided to take the MCAT to see if I would be able to get into medicial school. I know that if I were to get in, I would do well, it is just the getting in that worrys me.

I was a Chemistry major in college the first two years, so I have Org. and Inorg. Chem (I do have to retake the second semester of both lectures (VERY STUPID COLLEGE KID!)). But I have no problem retaking classes.

I was just wondering what kind of MCAT score I would need and if there are any D.O. schools that are more catering to Nurses and former health practitioners? I plan on taking my MCAT and if I do very poorly continuing my plan of CRNA, but I have to try for medical school first. Emergency Medicine is what I love to do, and if I didn't try I would be asking what if the rest of my life. Thank you for your time and reading this, any advice would be very much appreciated.


F.Y.I - I graduated college with a 3.35 GPA and a 3.8 in my Nursing Degree. I recieved a "D" in the lecture of my General Chemisty and Organic Chemistry (Bad student as well as back instructors = bad grade). I know these were awful mistakes, but they were very early in my student career.
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Hi gorillaRN,

As the previous poster mentioned, you'll want to retake those classes you didn't do well. The good thing about DO schools is that they will replace better grades when they calculate their GPA which may be higher.

Did you get your bachelors already? If so, look into doing either a post bac or a SMP (although for the SMP you'll probably need to retake those chem classes first).

I'm actually a nursing student right now (ADN program) and while I work on my bachelors I'll be working as a nurse. I"m planning on applying to med school after I get my bachelors and using that glide year to attend a SMP to show the adcoms I'm serious about med school.

DO schools seem a little more non-trad friendly and won't be as critical of your being a nurse, maybe even a little bit more pro towards them (I hope!).

Good luck!:luck::luck::luck::luck:

Kris
 
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Just a note for the above poster, I would work hard in your classes to make sure you don't need an SMP to "show" them that you are serious. If you earn high grades, and you do well on the MCAT, there is no reason to attend an SMP - it is simply a waste of money. I would strongly urge you to not plan on that, but rather plan on being successful in your classes and simply attaining acceptance to medical school.

Just my two cents...
 
I am going to take my MCAT to gauge if I would be able to get into Med School. As much as I would love to become a Dr. and help those in need, getting in will be the hardest part for me. I am not a genius, but I work very hard and make up for what I lack in intelligence. So I do hope this MCAT goes well, if not I will most likely be heading down the Nurse Anesthetist route (Which I will enjoy very much as well). Any other inspirational storys of the same route would be nice to hear if anyone would be willing to share. Thanks everyone.
 
gorillaRN said:
I am going to take my MCAT to gauge if I would be able to get into Med School. As much as I would love to become a Dr. and help those in need, getting in will be the hardest part for me. I am not a genius, but I work very hard and make up for what I lack in intelligence. So I do hope this MCAT goes well, if not I will most likely be heading down the Nurse Anesthetist route (Which I will enjoy very much as well). Any other inspirational storys of the same route would be nice to hear if anyone would be willing to share. Thanks everyone.
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hey if those are your gpas even with the poor first-round marks in the chem, they're not that bad especially since you're now applying as non-trad and have other things to bring with you - like the bedside skills of nursing, etc. i'm writing because when i took the kaplan course, the first diagnostic test was a real bomb, but i went on to get 95th percentile... so mcat deserves prep, whatever is best for you. don't trust the first test. trust the last of a prep programme, and if you're working, they're totally affordable.
 
4paw said:
hey if those are your gpas even with the poor first-round marks in the chem, they're not that bad especially since you're now applying as non-trad and have other things to bring with you - like the bedside skills of nursing, etc. i'm writing because when i took the kaplan course, the first diagnostic test was a real bomb, but i went on to get 95th percentile... so mcat deserves prep, whatever is best for you. don't trust the first test. trust the last of a prep programme, and if you're working, they're totally affordable.
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Totally disagree with the above. Applying as a non-traditional student does not offset a poor or below average uGPA. Being a nurse does not offset a poor uGPA. Extracurriculars will not offset a poor uGPA.

A 3.36 uGPA whether in nursing or not, is well below average for matriculants into medical school this year. With the poor economy and the increase in applicants, it's going to be very difficult (even with nursing and a strong MCAT) to get into medical school with those numbers.
 
njbmd said:
Totally disagree with the above. Applying as a non-traditional student does not offset a poor or below average uGPA. Being a nurse does not offset a poor uGPA. Extracurriculars will not offset a poor uGPA.

A 3.36 uGPA whether in nursing or not, is well below average for matriculants into medical school this year. With the poor economy and the increase in applicants, it's going to be very difficult (even with nursing and a strong MCAT) to get into medical school with those numbers.
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I would almost say especially as a nurse with those numbers. With the nursing shortage, adcoms aren't going to yay at you dropping nursing so fast...
 
nonesuchgirl said:
I would almost say especially as a nurse with those numbers. With the nursing shortage, adcoms aren't going to yay at you dropping nursing so fast...
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We don't care about the nursing shortage but we DO care about getting the best students that we can into our medical classes. A 3.36 uGPA is way below the matriculant average and MCAT/nontraditional/nursing/extracurriculars is not going to offset this low an average. This applicant needs some serious postbacc work to get this uGPA close to competitive range. With a D in both General and Organic Chemistry, this doesn't bode well for MCAT either.
 
Wow, you last two posters seem like such happy people. I'm going to attempt this whether or not I have a few people on a message board saying I will be unsuccessful. I am going to retake the classes (How ignorant do you think I am. Did you honestly think that I thought I would be able to gain entrance to Medical School with two D's? DUH!) I still have yet to take physics as well. As for your "wonderful" attitudes, please, go share your "joy" somewhere else.

P.S. – I hope you are going to be more compassionate physicians than you are on this message board. If not then I do honestly feel sorry for your patients.
 
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gorillaRN said:
Wow, you last two posters seem like such happy people. I'm going to attempt this whether I have a few people on a message board saying I will be unsuccessful. I am going to retake the classes (How ignorant do you think I am. Did you honestly think that I thought I would be able to gain entrance to Medical School with two D's? DUH!) I still have yet to take physics as well. As for your "wonderful" attitudes, please, go share your "joy" somewhere else.

P.S. – I hope you are going to be more compassionate physicians than you are on this message board. If not then I do honestly feel sorry for your patients.
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Okay, you're new.

That said, this is the nice side of this process. You will be torn apart.

And other people have gotten on Ds. Fs even. When you retake you'll need As. Have you taken "real" science as opposed to the "allied health" science?
 
Eh, what's the use in arguing.
 
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gorillaRN said:
Please take your "advice" elsewhere. I was a chemisty major for 3 years before I switched to Nursing. I had an A's in everything else attempted. I was on the deans list for the last 6 semesters of school. "Real" sciences? Come up buddy, you aren't impressing anybody. Everyone has taken Biochem, Anatomy and Physiology, ect.
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Ignoring the typos that my inner English teacher is screaming over,

uh, no.
 
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Well thank you for all your encouragement and well wishes. :)
 
gorillaRN,
Do well on the MCAT- it will put to rest any doubt an adcom has about your undergrad performance. Not everyone in medical school has a 4.0 GPA- a 3.36 GPA as an undergrad is not unheard of especially if you have done other things to distinguish yourself. I did not have a strong undergrad record but I retook the prerequ's and did well on the MCATs. I was admitted to 10 med schools when I applied at the age of 34. There were nurses "trading up" in my class too. Don't listen to the detractors- listen to your heart and do what is right for you.
 
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GorillaRN,

I would like to as much as possible connect with your concerns, which are also my own, and to you as a person. I think you can most certainly do this thing. I know what you're going through here. You're putting yourself on the line to try for something just out of reach.

Unfortunately, as it were, from their perspective, people throw their weight around here with little sensitivity to the individual that is on the other side of the 1's and 0's. They think they're are providing you with the "Real Deal" by harshly judging your previous academic indiscretions. As if you should brandish a red F and wear it on your chest for your appropriated shame. Or that Chris Hanson from NBC should be shoving a camera in your face and asking you what you are doing with that teenage gpa. This is what they think is helpful.

Eventually you will come to see this elevated peanut gallery for what it is. Helpful insofar as technical minutia and little more. The bane of this easy access to information is in fact the easy access to too much information for someone just trying to beat the odds in life.

We can only hope that there are individuals in the high perches of academia that are sympathetic to the divergent and unfocused wanderings that a person can find themselves traveling. Puritan scorn is the hand played by a limited experience. Nontraditional means next to nothing. I wouldn't try to begin describing myself as non-Chinese or non-gay to arrive at a sense of myself. Thus we are lumped together in one uncomfortably small boat for this rite of passage.

Half or these mf'ers are not my type of salt of the earth people. So I just tell myself who f'n cares what they think.

Good luck.
 
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odamae said:
gorillaRN,
Do well on the MCAT- it will put to rest any doubt an adcom has about your undergrad performance. Not everyone in medical school has a 4.0 GPA- a 3.36 GPA as an undergrad is not unheard of especially if you have done other things to distinguish yourself. I did not have a strong undergrad record but I retook the prerequ's and did well on the MCATs. I was admitted to 10 med schools when I applied at the age of 34. There were nurses "trading up" in my class too. Don't listen to the detractors- listen to your heart and do what is right for you.
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I agree with odamae. According to the SDN's Medical School Admission Guide, you need a least a 3.0 GPA (but around the average in other areas) to be competitive for medical school.
 
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gorillaRN said:
Wow, you last two posters seem like such happy people. I'm going to attempt this whether or not I have a few people on a message board saying I will be unsuccessful. I am going to retake the classes (How ignorant do you think I am. Did you honestly think that I thought I would be able to gain entrance to Medical School with two D's? DUH!) I still have yet to take physics as well. As for your "wonderful" attitudes, please, go share your "joy" somewhere else.

P.S. – I hope you are going to be more compassionate physicians than you are on this message board. If not then I do honestly feel sorry for your patients.
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:uhno:. Ouch, looks like you're getting angry over people telling you things you don't want to hear. If you really want to go for it then go for it, but getting pissed off at people criticizing you isn't going to help matters.
 
engineeredout said:
:uhno:. Ouch, looks like you're getting angry over people telling you things you don't want to hear. If you really want to go for it then go for it, but getting pissed off at people criticizing you isn't going to help matters.
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Nah man. Where would we be if everyone listened to what was told of them. Anger can be useful. Spite can straighten the backbone. Contrary to the philistine groupthink cast about here the criticism in this thread was not constructive. Unless you think we should go back to our corners and throw in the towel when we're told to do so.
 
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Gorilla,
I am a RN and presently in medical school. My advice is do well on the MCAT, get good experiences, get great LORs and be prepared to explain about the grades. You never know until you try......:)
 
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I was an ICU/ER RN, 13 yrs, now a 3rd yr med student. I went through a similar situtation. CRNA vs med school. CRNA's a great gig, good money+ hours but in the end, becoming a physician is what I really wanted despite taking the mcat a few times. I am sure your ICU experience will help, esp for the interview. I remember my nursing gpa/grades wasn't even considered. they only look at what's REQUIRED for medical school. don't worry too much about your grades...you can pick and choose which grade to put down for the secondary app. ex: org 2 is not required for some schools but any "advanced chem" is required so if you got a better grade in test tube glass blowing 402 (or whatever) then use that. you've got extra classes to choose from because of nursing core. the "D" will haunt you but if you get asked about it, just take it on the chin, don't give excuses, and say I've improved my study habits now and am doing better. good luck :thumbup:
 
Another convert here. Do well on the MCAT (ie study like $#&@) and you'll be fine. One word of advice, if you really want to be a doc, don't settle for being a CRNA, NP, PA or anything else. You WILL regret it for the rest of you're life. Put all your focus on getting into med school.

Good luck!!!
 
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My husband is a ICU RN doing pre-med. Were any of you converts married or had children while going through this process and how did you and the family cope? Also, at what age (if I may ask) were you accepted into Med School?
 
Here's the average national stats for DO school (taken from the DO college info book):

MCAT: 26-27
OA GPA: 3.35
Science GPA: 3.20

Your UG GPA is within this range and you should shoot for an MCAT within the above range. Of course, the higher the numbers the better your chances/choices will be. Retaking chemistry is a good idea since retaken grades replace original grades in the DO app. Study hard for the MCAT! DO schools, in general, have a tradition of accepting non-trad students and place a heavy weight on clinical experience. I think your nursing background fits the bill.

Things to consider:
1) You will need to explain why nursing? and why the switch to medicine? at some point in the application process.
2) EM is emerging as a fairly (but not insanely) competitve residency these days. Going to medical school doesn't give you a garuntee that you'll get into EM.
3) Med school is a long proces and involves a lot of liability. As a CRNA, you'll be making as much money as some doctors (PCPs) and you'll have less liability...shorter process too.

Good luck!
 
Im also in your same boat, Im a nurse, and currently taking upper div. science courses to boost up my undergrad GPA.... For you already in medical school, did you go to a reg. state school or a formal program, or get a masters in the sciences? Its just tough to raise a gpa with soooo many credits! My employer pays for getting a Masters as long as its in nursing, however, would this be looked favorably upon? Although a good back up plan, I really want to go to medical school.
 
Wow.. so much nurses here.. never knew! haha and i've been trolling these boards for awhile =). Gorilla for a DO school you're definitely in range. Take a year to redo the grades you got in chem and to also do some extra cirr. (i like doing hospice work - it is a nice contrast of being a charge nurse and all the chaos that goes along with it). Balancing work and school is kinda fun, and if you can look at the whole application process as an adventure rather then a means to an end it will make your life much easier. (i totally stressed myself out un-necessarily and continue to do so as i study for the MCAT). Take your time with the process and really enjoy your time as a nurse... :thumbup: best of luck
 
I've been an ANP for 10+ years and am starting my prereqs in 19 days for med school. I am so so so excited! I love nursing and could definitely financially support my family and have professional security if I stuck with nursing. However, I almost hear a "thunk" every time I reach the limits of my expertise with patient care. A 3rd year MD student knows their way around a body more than I ever will, and that's just a fact that won't leave my mind. At my work, I am given equal footing with MD's -- admission priv, med mgmt, patient care....yet I am acutely aware of the expertise difference between a mid-level and physician, and that awareness fuels my motivation for wanting more personally and professionally.

Someone with the medical skills of a doc coupled with the bedside skills of a nurse -- what a combo! :thumbup:
 
It's great to know that there are many nurses out there with medical school in mind- Out here in California it's easy to get caught up with having such a nice life style nursing offers...However I hope everyone continues on their path to what they truely desire....this new year 2009 is the best year to do it! :love:
 
Also for the applicant with the ~3.35 uGPA.... I would advice to redo the courses in which you did poor in i.e. got the D's in. Afterwards take advanced science courses, or courses that you need (best to ask a trusted pre-med advisor) for at least a year to boost up your GPA.... I do believe your experience as an RN is an asset that will give you an edge if you can sell yourself on paper....However like the previous post mentioned, no experience will make up for poor GPA's or poor grades...so its best to not have them at all! Raising that GPA is definately do-able and if you look at other applicants on this site, many of them have raised them up from MUCH lower...Its not too late if you are motivated, determined, and this is your ultimate goal. Best of luck to you.
 
OP,
I agree w/greenshirt.
I'd start by retaking the chem classes you did poorly in.
Then I would study for and take the MCAT. If you can get high 20's would think you have a shot. Depending on how many biology and chem classes you have already taken, you might also benefit from things like biochemistry, etc.
Take physics for science majors (with lab) also. Take all those classes first and then see how you do.

I think to get into a MD school will be hard but you can shoot for that either/or a DO. DO schools tend to put more stock in experience, less in a perfect GPA so would think that you would be more logical candidate for those schools.
 
janalex said:
Im also in your same boat, Im a nurse, and currently taking upper div. science courses to boost up my undergrad GPA.... For you already in medical school, did you go to a reg. state school or a formal program, or get a masters in the sciences? Its just tough to raise a gpa with soooo many credits! My employer pays for getting a Masters as long as its in nursing, however, would this be looked favorably upon? Although a good back up plan, I really want to go to medical school.
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when applying your nursing credits will not count, only your pre reqs for medicine. nursing gave me a BS degree and I went to a CC to make up the missing 3 yrs worth of pre reqs. plus when you take extra upper level courses and get A's, they can substitute for your bad grades instead of replacing them, which is a real boost!! good luck, feel free to PM me
 
janalex said:
It's great to know that there are many nurses out there with medical school in mind- Out here in California it's easy to get caught up with having such a nice life style nursing offers...However I hope everyone continues on their path to what they truely desire....this new year 2009 is the best year to do it! :love:
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yeah the sweet lifestyle was hard to leave....esp in the southeast with comparable salaries to CA and a very low cost of living!!!
 
Well gorilla RN, I hate to bust your balls but there isn't a chance in **** that you will be accepted into a nurse anesthesia program with 2 D's. Addmitance to CRNA and MD programs are quite similar as far as numbers are concerned. I would suggest retaking those 2 classes no matter what plan of action you decide to take. GOOD LUCK.
 
if your D is in Ochem I...then you have to retake. if it's Ochem II...take another upper level course and substitute that grade instead. not all med schools REQUIRE Ochem II just Ochem I and upper level course. it'll give you a little boost in science gpa

as for gen chem, the one I took for my BSN did not transfer over!! they said the "pre nursing chem" is diff than "pre med chem". so I had to take general chem over again. check that out at your school. that D might not be counted toward your science gpa

good luck!! feel free to PM
 
MSmentor018 said:
I was an ICU/ER RN, 13 yrs, now a 3rd yr med student. I went through a similar situtation. CRNA vs med school. CRNA's a great gig, good money+ hours but in the end, becoming a physician is what I really wanted despite taking the mcat a few times.

I waver back and forth with the CRNA still....how did you finalize your decision? It would be great to hear from someone who went thru the same situation.... Do you question your decision now or are you positive you made the right choice?
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I'm 21 years old ER tech x 3years. Got tired and now going for MD...(didn't like nursing for its demanding physical effort)

You made to RN. I've seen and met and worked with many DOs who were RNs at first. They are the best and coolest doctors to work with, since they know so much about how to treat their staff right! Their orders are so hollistic and better for staffs and patients. I've seen so many MDs disgruntled at absolute nothing. Believe me. RN-DO is pretty much what we call "easiest docs to work with" here in ER...

good luck to you.:luck:
 
yokurutu said:
I'm 21 years old ER tech x 3years. Got tired and now going for MD...(didn't like nursing for its demanding physical effort)

You made to RN. I've seen and met and worked with many DOs who were RNs at first. They are the best and coolest doctors to work with, since they know so much about how to treat their staff right! Their orders are so hollistic and better for staffs and patients. I've seen so many MDs disgruntled at absolute nothing. Believe me. RN-DO is pretty much what we call "easiest docs to work with" here in ER...

good luck to you.:luck:
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ya....i am also an RN, BSN hoping to become a D.O (Emergency/internal medicine combined). i also work ER/ICU. i will also be applying for class of 2014. i take mcat in may/june. i will not settle for CRNA/NP. i will be a doctor one day.
 
janalex said:
MSmentor018 said:
I was an ICU/ER RN, 13 yrs, now a 3rd yr med student. I went through a similar situtation. CRNA vs med school. CRNA's a great gig, good money+ hours but in the end, becoming a physician is what I really wanted despite taking the mcat a few times.

I waver back and forth with the CRNA still....how did you finalize your decision? It would be great to hear from someone who went thru the same situation.... Do you question your decision now or are you positive you made the right choice?
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A fellow critical care RN here--worked many kinds of ICUs--hearts, kids, both and then some.

I guess honestly I am having a hard time understanding why you waiver back and forth.

The difference (beyond the projected salaries for nurse anesth and anesthesiologist--if you would learn toward that) is like night and day. I mean do you even think you would like to become an anesthesiologist or an critical care intensivists? B/c despite what anyone says, there really is a huge difference in roles. It's more than similar tasks. It's really about the roles and depth of responsibility, etc.

Yes, there are advanced practice nurses; but basically, a nurse is a nurse and a physician is a physician. Even with the newer advanced practice, PhD programs, I really don't see that changing any time soon. To me, I really don't see that further blurring of roles between nursing and medicine is in anyone's best interest. The art and science of nursing may include overlap of knowledge to one degree or another, but is really is a different focus--even though nurses and physicians ideally are both there for the patients. How they are there is often quite different.

If I were on an ADCOM, and I sensed any such waivering, it would give me pause. . . .I am just saying. . .

Bottom line. . .Do what is in your soul. Do what you love. What do you REALLY want to do? What do you see your role as with patients? Do you want to be in the place where ultimatelly, the buck stops with you? I mean yes, as nurses, especially in critical care, we may have more autonomy and with that more accountability; but it is not the same as what the physician ultimately has.

Good luck to you. And yes, re-take the o chems and/or upper level sciences, if this is truly the direction in which you see yourself headed.



And again in case some are wondering, most modernized RN college/university nursing programs give the same General Science (Gen Bio.s and Inorgan Chems, etc) that other science majors take and that will transfer into a natural science program. This is also true for nuclear sci and other allied health programs. So you will easily be in these science classes with other science majors or pre-medsters. Only certain programs do what I call "dumbing down" science courses, and really I am not even sure that NLN approved programs allow for "dumbed down" sciences in professional nursing programs anymore. Even the hospital schools of nursing farm the nurses out to the colleges for those courses.

The exception today may LPN programs. Otherwise, in general, it's a rare bird. In fact, if I were in a nursing program, I would take umbrage at having to take natural science courses that were not science-major-based.
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Also, I am sorry I quoted a quote rather than going directly with janex's. My bad on that one.
 
jl lin said:
janalex said:
A fellow critical care RN here--worked many kinds of ICUs--hearts, kids, both and then some.

I guess honestly I am having a hard time understanding why you waiver back and forth.

The difference (beyond the projected salaries for nurse anesth and anesthesiologist--if you would learn toward that) is like night and day. I mean do you even think you would like to become an anesthesiologist or an critical care intensivists? B/c despite what anyone says, there really is a huge difference in roles. It's more than similar tasks. It's really about the roles and depth of responsibility, etc.

Yes, there are advanced practice nurses; but basically, a nurse is a nurse and a physician is a physician. Even with the newer advanced practice, PhD programs, I really don't see that changing any time soon. To me, I really don't see that further blurring of roles between nursing and medicine is in anyone's best interest. The art and science of nursing may include overlap of knowledge to one degree or another, but is really is a different focus--even though nurses and physicians ideally are both there for the patients. How they are there is often quite different.

If I were on an ADCOM, and I sensed any such waivering, it would give me pause. . . .I am just saying. . .

Bottom line. . .Do what is in your soul. Do what you love. What do you REALLY want to do? What do you see your role as with patients? Do you want to be in the place where ultimatelly, the buck stops with you? I mean yes, as nurses, especially in critical care, we may have more autonomy and with that more accountability; but it is not the same as what the physician ultimately has.

Good luck to you. And yes, re-take the o chems and/or upper level sciences, if this is truly the direction in which you see yourself headed.



And again in case some are wondering, most modernized RN college/university nursing programs give the same General Science (Gen Bio.s and Inorgan Chems, etc) that other science majors take and that will transfer into a natural science program. This is also true for nuclear sci and other allied health programs. So you will easily be in these science classes with other science majors or pre-medsters. Only certain programs do what I call "dumbing down" science courses, and really I am not even sure that NLN approved programs allow for "dumbed down" sciences in professional nursing programs anymore. Even the hospital schools of nursing farm the nurses out to the colleges for those courses.

The exception today may LPN programs. Otherwise, in general, it's a rare bird. In fact, if I were in a nursing program, I would take umbrage at having to take natural science courses that were not science-major-based.
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Hi everyone!

I posted this already in another thread, but now I can't find that thread so I'm not sure where it went. So I thought I'd post here just in case Sorry if you already responded somewhere else, please direct me to your response if you were in the other thread.

I'd really appreciate getting some input from all of you about my plans to become a nurse and then a doctor. I've heard of a lot of nurses who became doctors later on so I know that it is possible. However, most of them do it as a career change. I already am fairly certain that I want to be a doctor, a D.O. specifically, but feel as though I need to be financially secure before going for the long-haul studies in the event that life doesn't go as planned. So my plan is to do an ADN at my community college first, then transfer to a 4-yr university to continue with a BSN while working part-time as an RN and taking the necessary prerequisites for medical school at the same time. I believe that by doing nursing first I will gain a much better understanding of what it takes to be a doctor since I will essentially be shadowing doctors on the job while gaining real-world experience simultaneously. I am concerned about the basic prerequisites required for medical school and my training in nursing may not be enough for medical school? Or perhaps rather than continue on to a BSN, I could still work as an RN but do a BS in Biology/Pre-med instead? Would that be better? What do all of you think? Any advice or suggestion would be greatly appreciated. :)
 
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brigitte - you asked for advice

(1) You can click on a username at the left (including yours) and select "find more posts by ..." to find their other posts. Your duplicate post is here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11136528#post11136528

(2) When you are ready to become a doctor, you should pursue it with all of your heart, mind, and soul. Being a nurse is noble. Being a doctor is noble. Becoming a nurse so you have the $ to pursue the medical education you really want is quite convoluted.

(3) If you decide to pursue medicine, do well on the MCAT so you don't wind up like the original author GorillaRN:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7813005#post7813005
 
MT Headed said:
brigitte - you asked for advice

(1) You can click on a username at the left (including yours) and select "find more posts by ..." to find their other posts. Your duplicate post is here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11136528#post11136528

(2) When you are ready to become a doctor, you should pursue it with all of your heart, mind, and soul. Being a nurse is noble. Being a doctor is noble. Becoming a nurse so you have the $ to pursue the medical education you really want is quite convoluted.

(3) If you decide to pursue medicine, do well on the MCAT so you don't wind up like the original author GorillaRN:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7813005#post7813005
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip on finding the post. Could you explain further as to why you think it's a convoluted plan? Is there a downfall to becoming a nurse before medical school?
 
brigitte said:
Thanks for the tip on finding the post. Could you explain further as to why you think it's a convoluted plan? Is there a downfall to becoming a nurse before medical school?
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I am a nurse of almost 10 years, as well as a post-bacc premed student. I will be happy to give you reasons why going into nursing as a step to medicine is a bad idea.

First let me say that my path to medicine evolved, I didn't go into nursing as an alternative to medicine, and I didn't go into nursing with the intention of applying to medical school. Although I thought about medicine here and there over the years, I finally decided to go for it last year after attempting an NP program and hating it.

Nursing school, like med school, only prepares you for the basics. Once you are out of school and let loose in the hospital, you are just beginning to learn. I can't comment on how long it takes for interns to start to feel comfortable, but I can tell you that it will take you at least 2 years working full time as a nurse for you to know what you are doing. I was an LPN before I was an RN and it was still a rough adjustment.

Those first 2 years you should be reading and putting all of your effort into becoming the best nurse you can be, otherwise you will put your license and your patients at risk. There is a lot of reading, a lot of practice and a lot of observing other nurses that you should be doing. If you are working as a nurse and you are only getting through the day not 110% into what you are doing, you are going to F up big time.

After the 2 years, you will start to get comfortable and then the care starts to become routine, and then some patient/s will throw you for a loop and you will feel like you know nothing again. Its probably not until after 3 years that you really start to gain clinical judgement. That is what seperates the newbies from the experts.

If you decided to go this path anyway, you will have wasted 2 years getting your nursing degree (which nobody is hiring ADN's anyway), and then time spent looking for a job. Now you need real experience. Adcoms are not going to be impressed with a new nurse that has little experience and doesn't really have an idea of what physicians do and how they think because you are trying to get through the day and won't have time to think about it without your patients suffering.

Here is a link for RN skills checklists for various specialties. It took me probably 5 years to get comfortable with most of them on the ER checklist, and there are still things on there that I have never seen being that I don't work in a level 1 trauma center. If adcoms asked you what types of experiences you had as a nurse and you aren't familiar with most of these in your specialty, they will not be impressed by your experience. What would be even worse is if you are interviewed by a physician in that field.

https://secure.americanmobile.com/skillschecklists/showlist.aspx

I am in no way saying that you can't become a doctor, but all of this time would be better spent forgetting the nursing degree and just finishing your prereqs for med school. You will save yourself a lot of money and time, and reach your goal much sooner. You can do it if you try!
 
Thank you for the in-depth and insightful explanation. I feel I should really reconsider the nursing avenue and change to pre-med. You've made some very good points which I was not aware of. Thanks again. I guess a part of me is scared that I won't make it since I had a bad first year as pre-med, but medicine is still exciting to me. I have had a year to get my gpa up and am now at 3.75. Perhaps, it is time for me to try an be pre-med again.

NYRN said:
I am a nurse of almost 10 years, as well as a post-bacc premed student. I will be happy to give you reasons why going into nursing as a step to medicine is a bad idea.

First let me say that my path to medicine evolved, I didn't go into nursing as an alternative to medicine, and I didn't go into nursing with the intention of applying to medical school. Although I thought about medicine here and there over the years, I finally decided to go for it last year after attempting an NP program and hating it.

Nursing school, like med school, only prepares you for the basics. Once you are out of school and let loose in the hospital, you are just beginning to learn. I can't comment on how long it takes for interns to start to feel comfortable, but I can tell you that it will take you at least 2 years working full time as a nurse for you to know what you are doing. I was an LPN before I was an RN and it was still a rough adjustment.

Those first 2 years you should be reading and putting all of your effort into becoming the best nurse you can be, otherwise you will put your license and your patients at risk. There is a lot of reading, a lot of practice and a lot of observing other nurses that you should be doing. If you are working as a nurse and you are only getting through the day not 110% into what you are doing, you are going to F up big time.

After the 2 years, you will start to get comfortable and then the care starts to become routine, and then some patient/s will throw you for a loop and you will feel like you know nothing again. Its probably not until after 3 years that you really start to gain clinical judgement. That is what seperates the newbies from the experts.

If you decided to go this path anyway, you will have wasted 2 years getting your nursing degree (which nobody is hiring ADN's anyway), and then time spent looking for a job. Now you need real experience. Adcoms are not going to be impressed with a new nurse that has little experience and doesn't really have an idea of what physicians do and how they think because you are trying to get through the day and won't have time to think about it without your patients suffering.

Here is a link for RN skills checklists for various specialties. It took me probably 5 years to get comfortable with most of them on the ER checklist, and there are still things on there that I have never seen being that I don't work in a level 1 trauma center. If adcoms asked you what types of experiences you had as a nurse and you aren't familiar with most of these in your specialty, they will not be impressed by your experience. What would be even worse is if you are interviewed by a physician in that field.

https://secure.americanmobile.com/skillschecklists/showlist.aspx

I am in no way saying that you can't become a doctor, but all of this time would be better spent forgetting the nursing degree and just finishing your prereqs for med school. You will save yourself a lot of money and time, and reach your goal much sooner. You can do it if you try!
Click to expand...
 
I just finished my RN degree and have decided that I would rather pursue medicine. I originally planned to do an NP program, but after getting through my ADN, have nixed that plan.(Nursing theory is love/hate I HATED it) I am now planning on getting a job at an extended care facility and focusing on my BS after the first 6 months on the job.

Personally, I wish I would have just pursued Med school, from the get go. However, Med school was not my original plan. Some major issues that may arise from your plan.

1.Nursing school is no joke depending on your instructors. There were many classes where less then 2% of our students got A/A-'s. My GPA has taken a nose dive (about 4.0 starting with 50 credits) because of Nursing (about 3.5 now 100 credits) and I am looking forward to raising it by taking my science classes (My science ACT scores were 99th percentile way back when).

2.Next, there will be a learning curve on the job. I am expecting at least 6-12 months of stress from my new career.

3. If you wish to solve problems/have control you will most likely be frustrated with the positions in Nursing you would be able to work while pursuing Med school.

4. I would be applying to med school right now if I had went pre-med. Instead I have another 3-4 years before I will apply. Reason being, Full-time school is not practical considering 90% of my classes left are sciences.

Lastly, I will say I am glad that I went to Nursing school as I never in a million years would have jumped straight into a pre-med program with my non-traditional background. However, I would not recommend planning RN to MD to anyone; unless they wanted a 5-10 year gap from RN to Med school.
 
brigitte said:
Thank you for the in-depth and insightful explanation. I feel I should really reconsider the nursing avenue and change to pre-med. You've made some very good points which I was not aware of. Thanks again. I guess a part of me is scared that I won't make it since I had a bad first year as pre-med, but medicine is still exciting to me. I have had a year to get my gpa up and am now at 3.75. Perhaps, it is time for me to try an be pre-med again.
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It is scary and the science prereqs are hard, but you never know if you can do it unless you try. Most people have a bad semester or two, I don't know a single doctor who had a 4.0 every single semester, and med schools don't expect you to. Just do well from here on out, start anew from this point and don't worry about what happened in the past, you can't change it now.

Another poster mentioned that nursing classes can bring down your GPA, which is true. They are hard, there is a lot of material to learn in a short amount of time, plus you are being graded in your clinicals.
 
I don't quite agree with some of the other posters. I am an RN who is now entering my third year of medical school. I graduated from nursing December 2005 and entered med school June 2009! I was able to work full-time while I finished my premed classes, took my MCAT, and applied and interviewed for med school. I was able to earn lots of money and travel during that time also. There is another nurse in my class who did the exact same thing as me in the same amount of time! I am also still able to work during school breaks. My issue with going premed/bio is that you are completely screwed if you don't make it in to med school the first time. The med schools I interviewed at were impressed that I had a plan B for if I didn't make it in to med school...one person even explained to me that it demonstrated my maturity and the fact that I already worked in the hospital meant that I understand the hospital culture better than traditional applicants.
Anyways, good luck with whatever you decide to do but I think nursing is a great premed major (plus there is a small advantage you will have from your previous nursing school education!)
 
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panamishe said:
I don't quite agree with some of the other posters. I am an RN who is now entering my third year of medical school. I graduated from nursing December 2005 and entered med school June 2009! I was able to work full-time while I finished my premed classes, took my MCAT, and applied and interviewed for med school. I was able to earn lots of money and travel during that time also. There is another nurse in my class who did the exact same thing as me in the same amount of time! I am also still able to work during school breaks. My issue with going premed/bio is that you are completely screwed if you don't make it in to med school the first time. The med schools I interviewed at were impressed that I had a plan B for if I didn't make it in to med school...one person even explained to me that it demonstrated my maturity and the fact that I already worked in the hospital meant that I understand the hospital culture better than traditional applicants.
Anyways, good luck with whatever you decide to do but I think nursing is a great premed major (plus there is a small advantage you will have from your previous nursing school education!)
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Good point. Yes, this is true if you go for a BSN instead of an ADN. You would only need to take the missing pre-reqs, which should take about two years. This route would not be that bad, and I could see recommending it for people that are not 100% med school or bust.

I was looking at it from the perspective of my ADN, vs going straight for a pre-med type BS. I would not recommend this route to anyone. It just adds too many years.
 
Ahh... you make some good points too. So did you do a BSN and then worked on your prereqs for medical school? It sounds like it took you about 3 yrs to do your premed classes all the while working as a nurse full-time? Hearing that you started out with a similar plan to be a nurse in order to have a back-up and that it was looked upon positively by medical schools sways me back to my original plan. Would you say you had any negatives in going that route at all? Or perhaps any potential negatives? The other poster mentioned nursing school might bring down your gpa. Do you agree? To me it seems that the way you did it there is no downside since medical schools did find your 3 yrs of experience impressive. Plus, you made money all at the same time. Not to mention that it does protect me from being stuck with a BS in Biology that I can't do much with in the event that medical school doesn't work out. Maybe people aren't hiring ADN's like NYRN mentioned, but they are hiring BSN's I assume. There is still a nursing shortage out there. I'd like to hear what NYRN has to say in regards to your experience.

panamishe said:
I don't quite agree with some of the other posters. I am an RN who is now entering my third year of medical school. I graduated from nursing December 2005 and entered med school June 2009! I was able to work full-time while I finished my premed classes, took my MCAT, and applied and interviewed for med school. I was able to earn lots of money and travel during that time also. There is another nurse in my class who did the exact same thing as me in the same amount of time! I am also still able to work during school breaks. My issue with going premed/bio is that you are completely screwed if you don't make it in to med school the first time. The med schools I interviewed at were impressed that I had a plan B for if I didn't make it in to med school...one person even explained to me that it demonstrated my maturity and the fact that I already worked in the hospital meant that I understand the hospital culture better than traditional applicants.
Anyways, good luck with whatever you decide to do but I think nursing is a great premed major (plus there is a small advantage you will have from your previous nursing school education!)
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