Northwestern has open positions from PGY 1-4

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armin

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Our residency program currently has openings in all four training years. Please visit our departments website: http://www.pathology.northwestern.edu/

or go straight to the actual page with the information at:

http://www.pathology.northwestern.edu/Residency/IndexAPCP.html

The open first year position (not currently advertised on our website) may be flexible for an applicant who wants to transfer mid-year or for graduates who are interested in doing a residency in pathology.

We have a new program director this year who is fantastic and very supportive of the residents. She has your best interests in mind and wants to see you succeed!

Northwestern is a busy place but you will see many great cases and you will be very well trained when you graduate. One of our legendary attendings, Dr. Rao, has a daily unknown slide conference (optional attendance) and he is an amazing teacher. Also, the other faculty here are very pleasant and it is a beautiful hospital. All of our current and former senior residents have matched into the fellowships of their choice including GU, Forensics, GI, Dermpath, Hemepath, Cyto, etc. There is ample opportunities for research and CV building endeavors!
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First tell us why it has so many openings. That is a serious red flag. Great programs have an unexpected opening once every few years but to have at least 4 openings at one time.... WHat's the real story?



armin said:
Our residency program currently has openings in all four training years. Please visit our departments website: http://www.pathology.northwestern.edu/

or go straight to the actual page with the information at:

http://www.pathology.northwestern.edu/Residency/IndexAPCP.html

The open first year position (not currently advertised on our website) may be flexible for an applicant who wants to transfer mid-year or for graduates who are interested in doing a residency in pathology.

We have a new program director this year who is fantastic and very supportive of the residents. She has your best interests in mind and wants to see you succeed!

Northwestern is a busy place but you will see many great cases and you will be very well trained when you graduate. One of our legendary attendings, Dr. Rao, has a daily unknown slide conference (optional attendance) and he is an amazing teacher. Also, the other faculty here are very pleasant and it is a beautiful hospital. All of our current and former senior residents have matched into the fellowships of their choice including GU, Forensics, GI, Dermpath, Hemepath, Cyto, etc. There is ample opportunities for research and CV building endeavors!
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armin said:
Our residency program currently has openings in all four training years. Please visit our departments website: http://www.pathology.northwestern.edu/

or go straight to the actual page with the information at:

http://www.pathology.northwestern.edu/Residency/IndexAPCP.html

The open first year position (not currently advertised on our website) may be flexible for an applicant who wants to transfer mid-year or for graduates who are interested in doing a residency in pathology.

We have a new program director this year who is fantastic and very supportive of the residents. She has your best interests in mind and wants to see you succeed!

Northwestern is a busy place but you will see many great cases and you will be very well trained when you graduate. One of our legendary attendings, Dr. Rao, has a daily unknown slide conference (optional attendance) and he is an amazing teacher. Also, the other faculty here are very pleasant and it is a beautiful hospital. All of our current and former senior residents have matched into the fellowships of their choice including GU, Forensics, GI, Dermpath, Hemepath, Cyto, etc. There is ample opportunities for research and CV building endeavors!
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Are there any fellowship openings for 2009? Which Northwestern campus is this?


----- Antony
 
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The poster is talking about the main downtown campus. I am familiar with the program and Dr. Rao is indeed a great teacher.

I'm also wondering why your program has four unfilled spots after taking into consideration 3/4 spots were unmatched in March?
 
In any residency program there are going to be residents who are leaving, transferring (in or out), etc. Take a look at the website residentswap.org. It is really eye opening how many residents in different specialties are changing career choices.

I think that one of the main problems our program had in the last several years was our old program director. Directing the residency program and interacting effectively with residents was not something she was very good at. After only matching 1 of 4 spots this past year, the decision was made to change the program director to Dr. Nelson. She has been a breath fresh air! Decisions are now made with our input and she continually supports the residents and is looking for ways to improve the program.

Also, one of the first year residents dropped out last year. She decided that pathology was not the right career choice for her and she is now a family practice resident. Also, our program was recently approved by the ACGME for more residents. So we are looking to fill these open spots and distribute them equally among the four years. In July, we had three new residents transfer into our program, two second year and one third year resident. The third year resident transferred from the University of Michigan (a great training institution). All three residents have mentioned to me that NW is an intense training program but they are happy to have made the move to our institution and that the quality of our education is excellent!

Like with any other residency or hospital, we have our positives and negatives. There is no one ideal place for any residency training. I think one of the important factors is to train at a good institution where you will get great teaching and see a bunch of interesting cases. Sometimes the tradeoff being that you will have to work harder than residents at other programs.

As I mentioned, we have a bunch of great teaching attendings, ample opportunities for research (with financial support from our new chairman), opportunities to participate actively in tumor boards, etc.

I will stress that this is a tough program and its not for trainees who want to go home by 5pm everyday. However, you will have many months on several CP rotations and some AP rotations where you will probably go home before 5pm. However, this is not the case when you are on surgpath or hemepath. Our surgpath months are set up so that you gross one full day and then signout the entire next day. Our surgpath is under one roof and we don't have specialty signout. Our surgpath volume is about 45,000 accessions a year (not including dermpath). If you include dermpath, then add another 25,000 cases into mix.

So your surgpath months will be intense with heavy grossing loads and frozen section duties. The trade off is that by the time you are done with your second year of training, you will practically be able to gross in anything that comes your way and know how to handle even the most complicated frozen sections. However, on your signout days, most people are done by 5pm. Overall, its not a bad tradeoff for being on an intense rotation for the month.

Hemepath is strong here as well, with a busy bone marrow and flow service, and we have several well know hemepath attendings. The other strengths include, GI, GU, dermpath, cytology, GYN, Forensics (at Cook County), Peds (at Childrens Memorial), Soft tissue (with Dr. Laskin and Dr. Rao), and we get a ton of breast cases.

Our group of residents are great and we are supportive of one another. People cover for one another all the time and many of our residents have families and some of our residents recently had children. The hospital is beautiful and living in Chicago is great.
 
armin said:
I think that one of the main problems our program had in the last several years was our old program director.
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What, pray tell, was the name of this person...I interviewed at another chicago school recently and one of their faculty just came over from NW. PM me if you'd rather not say in public.

tt
 
There are probably some spectacular cases at NW, and some fine faculty too, but resident openings across the board point to an imploding program. Vacancies are not a good thing, as others have pointed out.

The former PD and he was a jerk - no question- and his mistakes will haunt that program for sometime (unless the new PD aggressively works on finding out what caused all these people to leave).

Even still, when vacancies arise they are often filled by, um, not the finest candidates. This can reflect poorly on the program in terms of in-service scores, boards pass rates, morale, etc.

It's a shame, b/c 15-20 years ago NW was *the best* program in Chicago, which goes to show that nothing is static when it comes to residency programs.
 
listeriaismfb said:
There are probably some spectacular cases at NW, and some fine faculty too, but resident openings across the board point to an imploding program. Vacancies are not a good thing, as others have pointed out.

The former PD and he was a jerk - no question- and his mistakes will haunt that program for sometime (unless the new PD aggressively works on finding out what caused all these people to leave).

Even still, when vacancies arise they are often filled by, um, not the finest candidates. This can reflect poorly on the program in terms of in-service scores, boards pass rates, morale, etc.

It's a shame, b/c 15-20 years ago NW was *the best* program in Chicago, which goes to show that nothing is static when it comes to residency programs.
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The old PD was a SHE not a HE. Are you sure you are talking about the right program? The old chair was a he.

Dr. Rao is the best teacher there. I hear he has been planning on retiring for some time now. Oddly, I never saw the chair at any of the morning lectures.
 
KeratinPearls said:
The old PD was a SHE not a HE. Are you sure you are talking about the right program? The old chair was a he.

Dr. Rao is the best teacher there. I hear he has been planning on retiring for some time now. Oddly, I never saw the chair at any of the morning lectures.
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Yes, I'm quite sure I have it right - Northwestern, north side of Chicago.

6 years ago (when I was an MSIV on the trail) I'm pretty sure that the PD was a man, baby! I spoke with the guy on the phone once. He basically lied to me about some stuff and I didn't need to hear anymore about the place.
 
Surg path rotations being more like until 8-9pm, then? Does this translate into overnight call or weekends at the hospital? How much of the residency is at this pace? The majority of it? How does Northwestern rank re: landing a solid fellowship? thank you!
 
listeriaismfb said:
Yes, I'm quite sure I have it right - Northwestern, north side of Chicago.

6 years ago (when I was an MSIV on the trail) I'm pretty sure that the PD was a man, baby! I spoke with the guy on the phone once. He basically lied to me about some stuff and I didn't need to hear anymore about the place.
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The program you are talking about may be the Northwestern Evanston program which is located in Evanston, a city north of Chicago. The OP is talking about the downtown campus, which has its own program and is the better program of the two, located in the heart of the city.

You are talking about six years ago which is a long time. The PD back then could've been male, but the previous PD (last year) at the downtown campus was female before the current one (this year).
 
KeratinPearls said:
The program you are talking about may be the Northwestern Evanston program which is located in Evanston, a city north of Chicago. The OP is talking about the downtown campus, which has its own program and is the better program of the two, located in the heart of the city.

You are talking about six years ago which is a long time. The PD back then could've been male, but the previous PD (last year) at the downtown campus was female before the current one (this year).
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I am fully and painfully aware that six years is a long time. Again, going back to my previous post in this string, nothing is static when it comes to residency programs.
 
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Correction: Internal medicine, not family practice. The decision to leave pathology was a very complicated one. There was more to it than just not being 'the right career choice'.


"Also, one of the first year residents dropped out last year. She decided that pathology was not the right career choice for her and she is now a family practice resident."
 
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KeratinPearls said:
The OP is talking about the downtown campus, which has its own program and is the better program of the two, located in the heart of the city.
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You state this as though it were fact, when in my experience, (limited I admit) most of the residents/fellows/attendings around a couple of other Chicago programs have told me personally that the Evanston program was the better of the two.

I'm curious to hear other's opinions.
 
this thread is a trainwreck! can't...look...away...:scared:
 
First off, Im totally confused...is this really Northwestern or a sub-NW program similar to UCLA-Olive View or UCSF-Fresno (a program detached from the main hospital but affiliated in name only)?

Secondly, the program doesnt sound half bad. Chicago can be an interesting place to live, for a short period of time. (once again assuming your not related to a famous actress and living in the south side..)

Lastly, Im confused on who is posting this, a resident? a PD? a secretary?

How legit is this?
 
listeriaismfb said:
Yes, I'm quite sure I have it right - Northwestern, north side of Chicago.

6 years ago (when I was an MSIV on the trail) I'm pretty sure that the PD was a man, baby! I spoke with the guy on the phone once. He basically lied to me about some stuff and I didn't need to hear anymore about the place.
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Whoa....I'm interviewing there in a couple weeks....Can you send me a pm of this guy's name?
 
northwestern-chicago definitely used to have a good reputation. definitely better than northwestern-evanston at all times. My mentor thinks the program was really good about 5 yrs back. Even rated it higher than u chicago at that time. he does not know about the current status.
 
yaah said:
He's not there anymore. Don't worry about it. I never had a problem with him, I interviewed there too. I just didn't want to live in Chicago.
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Isn't he at Yale now?
 
I think people tend to overblow these things - they probably had one bad year of recruitment which was influenced by some leadership changes and, no doubt, rumormongering which tends to influence candidates WAY more than it should. While they are definitely things that any interested candidate should ask about to make sure they are addressing, it doesn't change the fact that it is a great program in a great city with a great history. When good programs have problematic years, they tend to correct fairly quickly and it might be a great opportunity for residents to influence their own education more than at other places.
 
first, let me say that i'm not in the path program at northwestern memorial hospital and never was. however, the resident who left the program last year for internal medicine is one of my closest friends. it was painful to watch how an upbeat, sweet person turned into a sad and beat down person after being in that program for just a couple months, and i just want to provide my two cents as someone outside of the situation.

every day in that program was a struggle for the 3 interns who started in july. all of the seniors in the program were cruel to the interns. the seniors viewed teaching as punishment, rather than privilege, and the interns bore the brunt of that attitude. my friend and the other 2 interns used to get together weekly just to vent about their daily suffering. some may write off the way my friend was treated as "personality issues", but in my opinion, it was far more than that, based on the daily bitter, incendiary comments of the fellow residents and even the ancillary staff. the program director and the chief resident didn't help; in fact, they made it worse.

within a few months, my friend decided to leave. because my friend's significant other was in the area and path had become such a turn-off, the intern decided to switch fields and stay in the area. within a month after the switch, my friend was back to the way i remembered! after having been out of clinical medicine for several months, my friend was a bit rusty, and everyone at the new program has been nothing but gracious and helpful.

following my friend leaving the program, the program had great difficulty in hiring new faculty. they had to hire new faculty because several faculty left at the beginning of the 07-08 year. also, one of the other interns left the program to stay in the field of pathology, but at a different program. then, the march 08 match happened, with the program filling 1/4 spots.

were the facts that 2/4 interns left the program in 08-09, disappointing '08 match, and the fact that there are now openings in all 4 years all one big coincidence? you decide.
 
Several people have weighed in on there own personal opinions about our residency program. The fact is that in any residency there are going to be very unhappy residents. Residency is the beginning of the so called "real-world" for many of us. The way we may have envisioned it playing out may not exactly be the reality of how we get trained and ultimately practice in the end. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a residency program or job out there that is going to be exactly perfect for any individual.

The residents who left our program last year did so for their own reasons...whatever those reasons may be is really their own personal matter. I applaud them for having taken the steps to find more fulfillment in their life and career.

I have personally spoken to, as many of you have, to many other residents in different fields as well as in pathology. It is rare to find one that doesn't have a complaint about some aspect of their training program. Also, it is universal that in academic medicine there are many problems that need to be addressed and many more steps to be taken for the life of residents to become more ideal.

Having said this, my experience at NW has been very positive. I have a great relationship with the residents and I have not observed or heard of any mistreatment of junior residents...or any of the residents for that matter. If anything, I constantly observe how much the senior residents go out of their way to protect and support the junior residents. What I have experienced is a culture of dedicated and hardworking residents who are passionate about learning pathology and supporting one another. There is a real "team" mentality among the residents. Also, we realize that our program is not perfect and that (like other residency programs) we have problems in our department...as i said, no place is perfect!

But I am glad to tell you that Dr. Nelson is a breath of fresh air among the residents and she is very concerned about our complaints and is very aggressive and innovative in her approach to finding solutions to these problems. As a result, there have been some pleasant changes that have occurred and more are in the works!

The grossing situation has improved significantly. We now have 3 residents dedicated to grossing at one time and it has helped decrease the load without affecting our learning from the signout standpoint. It's not perfect but on most grossing days you are done by 6 to 7pm.

As a bonus, Dr. Rao holds multiple teaching conferences throughout the week, including a daily 5pm teaching conference where he reviews interesting unknown lesions. He even comes in every Saturday morning to signout biopsies and welcomes residents to join him (it's voluntary and you are not forced to do it, plus he buys you coffee!). Many agree that he is one of the best teachers in the field of pathology and he sacrifices so much of his own time for your benefit. Learning from him for four years is an invaluable asset and we are lucky to have him. And don't worry, he is not retiring anytime soon!

We have recruited several new great faculty and the flow of signout has been great and the attendings seem happy. We are still actively recruiting faculty and it is important to remember that there is always going to be turnover in academic medicine. Overall, I think the state of our department is excellent and continually seems to be heading in a positive direction. Don't forget, NW is one of the richest hospitals in the world and it is unlikely that the hospital would allow its pathology department to fall below standards. It is a department that is at the core of what makes the hospital run, become profitable, and provide exceptional patient care.

We are expecting other exciting changes soon. Construction will begin in a few months on a new grossing area that is slated to be state of the art and will triple the size of our current grossing room. We hope that this will give the department more flexibility in hiring additional techs and PA's to help with the surgical load...which will translate into an even better quality of life for the residents!!!

You don't have to take my word for it. If you are considering or interested in applying for the open positions we have, go ahead and apply and see what happens. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose. If you are interviewed or considered for the position, you will be able to come by and see for yourself what our lives are like, before you commit to coming to NW. No one is forcing our residency on you. It was my choice to come to NW and I am very happy overall...not to mention that I really enjoy living in a great city like Chicago!

I reiterate, the bottom line at the end is how well you are trained and being able to obtain the fellowship you want. There are going to be days when residency becomes exhausting. But there are no free lunches in life. If you are dedicated, hardworking, focused, and a team player you will appreciate the value of the training you will receive at NW and I am confident you will have a bright future in the field of pathology!
 
armin said:
Several people have weighed in on there own personal opinions about our residency program. The fact is that in any residency there are going to be very unhappy residents. Residency is the beginning of the so called "real-world" for many of us. The way we may have envisioned it playing out may not exactly be the reality of how we get trained and ultimately practice in the end. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a residency program or job out there that is going to be exactly perfect for any individual.

The residents who left our program last year did so for their own reasons...whatever those reasons may be is really their own personal matter. I applaud them for having taken the steps to find more fulfillment in their life and career.

I have personally spoken to, as many of you have, to many other residents in different fields as well as in pathology. It is rare to find one that doesn't have a complaint about some aspect of their training program. Also, it is universal that in academic medicine there are many problems that need to be addressed and many more steps to be taken for the life of residents to become more ideal.

Having said this, my experience at NW has been very positive. I have a great relationship with the residents and I have not observed or heard of any mistreatment of junior residents...or any of the residents for that matter. If anything, I constantly observe how much the senior residents go out of their way to protect and support the junior residents. What I have experienced is a culture of dedicated and hardworking residents who are passionate about learning pathology and supporting one another. There is a real "team" mentality among the residents. Also, we realize that our program is not perfect and that (like other residency programs) we have problems in our department...as i said, no place is perfect!

But I am glad to tell you that Dr. Nelson is a breath of fresh air among the residents and she is very concerned about our complaints and is very aggressive and innovative in her approach to finding solutions to these problems. As a result, there have been some pleasant changes that have occurred and more are in the works!

The grossing situation has improved significantly. We now have 3 residents dedicated to grossing at one time and it has helped decrease the load without affecting our learning from the signout standpoint. It's not perfect but on most grossing days you are done by 6 to 7pm.

As a bonus, Dr. Rao holds multiple teaching conferences throughout the week, including a daily 5pm teaching conference where he reviews interesting unknown lesions. He even comes in every Saturday morning to signout biopsies and welcomes residents to join him (it's voluntary and you are not forced to do it, plus he buys you coffee!). Many agree that he is one of the best teachers in the field of pathology and he sacrifices so much of his own time for your benefit. Learning from him for four years is an invaluable asset and we are lucky to have him. And don't worry, he is not retiring anytime soon!

We have recruited several new great faculty and the flow of signout has been great and the attendings seem happy. We are still actively recruiting faculty and it is important to remember that there is always going to be turnover in academic medicine. Overall, I think the state of our department is excellent and continually seems to be heading in a positive direction. Don't forget, NW is one of the richest hospitals in the world and it is unlikely that the hospital would allow its pathology department to fall below standards. It is a department that is at the core of what makes the hospital run, become profitable, and provide exceptional patient care.

We are expecting other exciting changes soon. Construction will begin in a few months on a new grossing area that is slated to be state of the art and will triple the size of our current grossing room. We hope that this will give the department more flexibility in hiring additional techs and PA's to help with the surgical load...which will translate into an even better quality of life for the residents!!!

You don't have to take my word for it. If you are considering or interested in applying for the open positions we have, go ahead and apply and see what happens. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose. If you are interviewed or considered for the position, you will be able to come by and see for yourself what our lives are like, before you commit to coming to NW. No one is forcing our residency on you. It was my choice to come to NW and I am very happy overall...not to mention that I really enjoy living in a great city like Chicago!

I reiterate, the bottom line at the end is how well you are trained and being able to obtain the fellowship you want. There are going to be days when residency becomes exhausting. But there are no free lunches in life. If you are dedicated, hardworking, focused, and a team player you will appreciate the value of the training you will receive at NW and I am confident you will have a bright future in the field of pathology!
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Your program has suffered a significant loss of residents (and thus a loss of resident labor). Has anything been done to help with the workload such as hiring a PA or having attendings go to the gross room and do some grossing? I may be wrong but it sounds like the total number of specimens that were once grossed in by x residents are now being grossed in by x-4 residents. This would only add a large amount of grossing on to the remaining residents. I find it incongruous to state that having three residents at a time dedicated to grossing somehow decreases the workload for the residents. It sounds like you have spent money to hire new faculty which helps with the faculty workload but not taken any concrete steps to help with the resident workload. I am glad the residents are a "team" but what are the faculty specifically doing to help out a now undermanned team? In regards to the call schedule are the faculty taking any night and weekend call on their own without a resident or has the call frequency just been increased for the remaining residents? In regards to the 5 PM conference do the three grossing residents have to attend and if so does that mean they just have to go back to the grossing bench after the conference and end up getting home even later? Personally I have grossed many specimens since I completed residency but I have met some academic attendings who act like it is against the law for them to do any grossing at all. Reading between the lines I get the impression that basically nothing has been done to help with the resident workload. Although I may be wrong I also get the impression this may be one of the programs out there that views residents primarily as workhorses with teaching being a lesser priority. In my experience these type of programs tend to take more IMGs who seem more likely to let themselves get beat on without complaining.
 
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I'm a current resident at Northwestern and all of our residents have gotten outstanding fellowships thus far including Dermpath. I have not heard of anyone that has had trouble getting a fellowship from Northwestern. We come out of the program with solid diagnostic skills and many former residents praise the program : )
 
We do gross a lot at Northwestern, but I do not feel like I am slave labor at all. Attendings frequently come to the gross room to help us with difficult specimens and we are constantly helping each other out. As for 5pm conference, it is not mandatory but it is a fantastic environment in which to learn. Although 2 people transferred out last year we replaced them with 2 residents who transferred to Chicago to be with their significant others so we do not currently have more work and less people.
 
nutterbutter said:
first, let me say that i'm not in the path program at northwestern memorial hospital and never was. however, the resident who left the program last year for internal medicine is one of my closest friends. it was painful to watch how an upbeat, sweet person turned into a sad and beat down person after being in that program for just a couple months, and i just want to provide my two cents as someone outside of the situation.

every day in that program was a struggle for the 3 interns who started in july. all of the seniors in the program were cruel to the interns. the seniors viewed teaching as punishment, rather than privilege, and the interns bore the brunt of that attitude. my friend and the other 2 interns used to get together weekly just to vent about their daily suffering. some may write off the way my friend was treated as "personality issues", but in my opinion, it was far more than that, based on the daily bitter, incendiary comments of the fellow residents and even the ancillary staff. the program director and the chief resident didn't help; in fact, they made it worse.

within a few months, my friend decided to leave. because my friend's significant other was in the area and path had become such a turn-off, the intern decided to switch fields and stay in the area. within a month after the switch, my friend was back to the way i remembered! after having been out of clinical medicine for several months, my friend was a bit rusty, and everyone at the new program has been nothing but gracious and helpful.

following my friend leaving the program, the program had great difficulty in hiring new faculty. they had to hire new faculty because several faculty left at the beginning of the 07-08 year. also, one of the other interns left the program to stay in the field of pathology, but at a different program. then, the march 08 match happened, with the program filling 1/4 spots.

were the facts that 2/4 interns left the program in 08-09, disappointing '08 match, and the fact that there are now openings in all 4 years all one big coincidence? you decide.
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I am a current resident at Northwestern and I actually did the opposite of said "friend". Everyone makes mistakes. I thought internal medicine was my future when I graduated from med school but it just didn't end up working out for me. Yes I was miserable, yes I was daily suffering as well. I was not myself. I made the switch to pathology and I picked Northwestern because of its exposure to everything and anything. And I am much happier with a more balanced life between work and play. Just because ONE person, okay 2 people, don't have a great fit, doesn't mean it won't work for you. Go with your gut. And again, when deciding on resdidencies think about who will best prepare you for fellowships, (which you all need now to get a job).
 
pathchick09 said:
We do gross a lot at Northwestern, but I do not feel like I am slave labor at all. Attendings frequently come to the gross room to help us with difficult specimens and we are constantly helping each other out. As for 5pm conference, it is not mandatory but it is a fantastic environment in which to learn. Although 2 people transferred out last year we replaced them with 2 residents who transferred to Chicago to be with their significant others so we do not currently have more work and less people.
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So you are telling us that since last week they have already filled the four (or more) open resident positions? Are you actually trying to claim that your current attendings actually perform some of the grossing? I think residents at some programs may be hesitant to speak the truth because they do not want to risk not filling during the match and thereby having even less residents to share the load next year. I do not know if that is the case here. If your program is so proud of their fellowship placements how about posting them on your website as I have seen other programs do?
The AMA Freida website states that your program does not allow off campus electives (see: http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,3001621094,00.html ). I would not consider this conducive to obtaining fellowships because it woould seem to eliminate the possibility of setting up elective months to audition for a fellowship.
In addition the website of your program lists only one dermpath month and two elective months during the 4 years ( http://www.pathology.northwestern.edu/Residency/IndexAPCP.html ). That seems to be a paltry amount of electives to me.
P.S. I would have to agree with the post of elburrito above. It is also interesting to me how we have posters coming out of the woodwork now to post their first and second SDN posts ever on this particular thread.
 
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We didn't interview that many people last year and Dr. Yeldandi was NOT the most welcoming program director. I am a resident here and even when I interviewed with her she kinda turned me off to the program. I ended up coming here because I really liked the residents I met on my interview day, I liked Chicago and the program seemed to prepare the residents well after graduation. I got a good vibe on my interview day (besides the interview with Dr. Y), and I think you have to go where you feel is best for you.

elburrito said:
so even though this thread has 21+ posts in it...i'm still unclear as to A) why are there are so many spots open all at once, and B) even if they did replace Dr. Yaldandi as the director, what was it that everyone on the interview trail sensed that Northwestern was able to only fill 1/4 spots before the scramble this year? I thought Northwestern was supposed to be the most prestigious program in the midwest for Path, along with University of Chicago. These are serious red flags for anyone interested in the program I think. Where there is smoke, there is fire.
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We are responding to these posts, because we feel strongly about our program. It's upsetting to see only one-sided views that we know are not true. We do have open spots because our 4th year class is so large (due to the switch from a 5 to 4 year program) and we are trying to even out the junior classes. I was just saying that the vacant spots from the 2 interns last year are filled by 2 people who transferred in this year to be closer to their families : )

exPCM said:
So you are telling us that since last week they have already filled the four (or more) open resident positions? Are you actually trying to claim that your current attendings actually perform some of the grossing? I think residents at some programs may be hesitant to speak the truth because they do not want to risk not filling during the match and thereby having even less residents to share the load next year. I do not know if that is the case here. If your program is so proud of their fellowship placements how about posting them on your website as I have seen other programs do?
The AMA Freida website states that your program does not allow off campus electives (see: http://www0.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgm/0,1238,3001621094,00.html ). I would not consider this conducive to obtaining fellowships because it woould seem to eliminate the possibility of setting up elective months to audition for a fellowship.
In addition the website of your program lists only one dermpath month and two elective months during the 4 years ( http://www.pathology.northwestern.edu/Residency/IndexAPCP.html ). That seems to be a paltry amount of electives to me.
P.S. I would have to agree with the post of elburrito above. It is also interesting to me how we have posters coming out of the woodwork now to post their first and second SDN posts ever on this particular thread.
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pathchick09 said:
We are responding to these posts, because we feel strongly about our program. It's upsetting to see only one-sided views that we know are not true. We do have open spots because our 4th year class is so large (due to the switch from a 5 to 4 year program) and we are trying to even out the junior classes. I was just saying that the vacant spots from the 2 interns last year are filled by 2 people who transferred in this year to be closer to their families : )
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:confused:
AP/CP Pathology training was switched from 5 years to 4 years in 2002 ( http://www.utmb.edu/pathology/file.aspx/education/residency_program/ap_cp_residency_training/ ). This means that the last 5 year class graduated in 2006. It is now 2008!
 
Yes, but there was a point when the last 5 year class graduated along with the first 4 year class and that opened more spots up. Therefore our 4th year class is larger (8 people). Our goal is to have 6 people per class but we were not able to do that since there is a limit to how many residents can be in the program at once.

exPCM said:
:confused:
AP/CP Pathology training was switched from 5 years to 4 years in 2002 ( http://www.utmb.edu/pathology/file.aspx/education/residency_program/ap_cp_residency_training/ ). This means that the last 5 year class graduated in 2006. It is now 2008!
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pathchick09 said:
Yes, but there was a point when the last 5 year class graduated along with the first 4 year class and that opened more spots up. Therefore our 4th year class is larger (8 people). Our goal is to have 6 people per class but we were not able to do that since there is a limit to how many residents can be in the program at once.
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The last 5 year class and first 4 year class graduated in 2006. Your current fourth year class should have started their residency in 2005. The situation does not compute as far as I can tell. Perhaps there is something more to the story. Where is this story coming from?

The only way it seems you could have taken 8 new residents in 2005 is if the program had suffered significant resident losses in the 2004-2005 timeframe. This would seem to indicate that the current resident attrition at the program is not a one time event but that resident attrition is a reoccuring problem at the program.
 
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As far as I know we also had our total residency spots increased at that time so they could take on more residents due to an increase in specimen volume. Before last year, I had never heard of anyone leaving the program, but I haven't been there that long so I can't say for certain. I think you bring up valid points and questions that medical students should be asking at all interviews, but I also have to wonder why as an "attending" you are so interested and so vocal about our program.

exPCM said:
The last 5 year class and first 4 year class graduated in 2006. Your current fourth year class should have started their residency in 2005. The situation does not compute as far as I can tell. Perhaps there is something more to the story. Where is this story coming from?

The only way it seems you could have taken 8 new residents in 2005 is if the program had suffered significant resident losses in the 2004-2005 timeframe. This would seem to indicate that the current resident attrition at the program is not a one time event but that resident attrition is a reoccuring problem at the program.
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exPCM said:
The last 5 year class and first 4 year class graduated in 2006. Your current fourth year class should have started their residency in 2005. The situation does not compute as far as I can tell. Perhaps there is something more to the story. Where is this story coming from?

The only way it seems you could have taken 8 new residents in 2005 is if the program had suffered significant resident losses in the 2004-2005 timeframe. This would seem to indicate that the current resident attrition at the program is not a one time event but that resident attrition is a reoccuring problem at the program.
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When path went from 5 to 4 years, most programs retained the same number of total spots in their training program, only now it would be spread out over 4 years instead of 5. Some programs I think took all of the extra spaces and immediately applied them to incoming residents, whereas other programs spread it out over a couple of years. At least, that's my assumption.
 
yaah said:
When path went from 5 to 4 years, most programs retained the same number of total spots in their training program, only now it would be spread out over 4 years instead of 5. Some programs I think took all of the extra spaces and immediately applied them to incoming residents, whereas other programs spread it out over a couple of years. At least, that's my assumption.
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I agree that many programs took all of the extra spaces and immediately applied them to incoming residents. However it seems like they could not have done this until 2006 which is the year when two classes (the last 5 year class and the first 4 year class) graduated simultaneously. So I think that 2006 would be the year when many programs had a bolus of residents coming in. How would you explain why Northwestern would have needed a bolus of 8 residents in 2005?
 
There is no question that our residency program has its problems...but find me a academic pathology program that is perfect...it just doesn't exist! The important point is that significant changes have been made. Other changes are expected to follow soon that will continue to enhance the life of the residents. And quite frankly we all love our new program director, Dr. Nelson!!! She is like a mom to all of us and is not a happy camper when we are upset as residents...which usually translates into her going after someone or some issue to get it fixed or ironed out!!!

We as NW residents are proud of our residency and we are upset that due to some negative issues in the past we suffered a poor match last year and had a program director who was suboptimal. But the bottom line is that you will get exceptional training at NW and be surrounded by a great group of residents and attendings. Even the infamous Dr. Yeldandi is manageable as an attending. Also, I have yet to experience an attending who has treated me poorly or has dumped on me as a resident. And I have never heard of an attending at any program grossing in general surgpath specimens! If you know of any send them to NW :). Furthermore, our attendings are always available to help us with questions and concerns over specimens and all of them have an open door policy. There are residency programs out there where you can't stop by and talk to your attending without having to schedule an appointment with his or her secretary!

As NW residents we have had enough of the negativity and we are now using the forum to let people know about our program and to dispel some of the harsh and untrue rumors that have been propagated in the path community. I don't get any benefit from sitting here and spending my time writing all of this. Whether people want to come to our program or not won't have any effect on the rest of my training at NW or my future in pathology. But as a collective group of concerned and proactive residents, we are trying to create a more open and positive atmosphere about our program. We have been bothered by the negative portrayal of NW and that along with all the negative comments, an equal amount of posts have not been placed talking about the many positive aspects of training at NW.

Call us selfish, but many of us take a great deal of pride in our training and want to be surrounded by other exceptional residents. We don't want to have another match like last year and we want the best and brightest applicants to come to our program. We want to have others in our program who value the team concept and are not afraid of the hardwork and dedication of residency...and knowing that you will be rewarded handsomely in the end by a great fellowship, confidence in your diagnostic abilities, and a great career in pathology.

I think the vibe among most of us (NW residents and faculty) is that we are moving beyond the rebuilding process and in a short period of time the department will have a new face and an even greater national presence. Just for good measure lets list the all-star lineup of attendings that we have who are nationally recognized as some of the best pathologists in the field: Dr. Laskin (soft tissue and general surgpath), Dr. Nayar (cytology), Dr. Peterson (hemepath), Dr. Chadburn (hemepath), Dr. Ximing Yang (GU), Dr. Guitart (dermpath), Dr. Goolsby (flow cytometry), Dr. Ramsey (blood bank), Dr. Reed (Micro), and the one and only Dr. Rao (virtually ever aspect of pathology from A to Z).

Again, I will reiterate the point that others can sit here and post negative comments about our program or constantly state how doubtful they are about my preaching about the residency program, etc. The fact remains that no one is telling you to make the decision to come here, apply, etc. based on reading this forum. We live in a rather open society and I will impress upon you to try to come by our department and see for yourself, firsthand, what our residency is about.

Also, for applicants who have visited our program and are on the fence or who are very interested in joining our residency, you may want to consider scheduling a "second look" visit.

Cheers!!!
 
Keep in mind that you started this thread.
So why does your "mom" not allow the residents to do any off campus electives as stated on the AMA Freida website or is this information not correct? Why do you only get two electives total during the entire 4 years of residency as stated on your program website or is this not correct? I have no interest in your program as I finished residency several years ago. However I do think it is valuable for medical students to learn to critically analyze information about programs in this forum. I know that I was mislead and uninformed about certain issues during my residency interviews. It is easy for people to post statements that everything is great without saying anything specific or answering specific questions about the program. It is easy to state that residents at a program get great fellowships without giving any specific information on how the program supports the resident's efforts to land a fellowship. How flexible is the program in allowing time off for interviews? How many interview days are allowed? Are the interview days deducted from your vacation time? I have talked with some pathologists who landed great fellowships because of their residency program and some who did so in spite of their residency program. What is the situation there? Of the ~50 or so residents who should have graduated from your program in the last 10 years, how many were selected for the on campus Northwestern dermpath fellowship, hemepath fellowship, etc.? Do the residents really all do 12 weeks of beeper or home call per year in the 2nd through 4th years as stated on the AMA Freida website?

One of your residents posted about the resident complement being increased there a couple of years ago due to an increase in specimens. However when I look at the accredited program history at the ACGME website it seems like the number of approved positions has been relatively static at ~22. I personally wonder how many other pathology programs have had three different program directors in the last 4 years.
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That may be posted on the Frieda website that residents don't do away rotations, but we have had several residents rotate at the AFIP in Bethesda and at the University of Chicago in the last couple of years. I'm sorry you had such a bad residency experience, but we are enjoying ours :).


exPCM said:
Keep in mind that you started this thread.
So why does your "mom" not allow the residents to do any off campus electives as stated on the AMA Freida website or is this information not correct? Why do you only get two electives total during the entire 4 years of residency as stated on your program website or is this not correct? I have no interest in your program as I finished residency several years ago. However I do think it is valuable for medical students to learn to critically analyze information about programs in this forum. I know that I was mislead and uninformed about certain issues during my residency interviews. It is easy for people to post statements that everything is great without saying anything specific or answering specific questions about the program. It is easy to state that residents at a program get great fellowships without giving any specific information on how the program supports the resident's efforts to land a fellowship. How flexible is the program in allowing time off for interviews? How many interview days are allowed? Are the interview days deducted from your vacation time? I have talked with some pathologists who landed great fellowships because of their residency program and some who did so in spite of their residency program. What is the situation there? Of the ~50 or so residents who should have graduated from your program in the last 10 years, how many were selected for the on campus Northwestern dermpath fellowship, hemepath fellowship, etc.? Do the residents really all do 12 weeks of beeper or home call per year in the 2nd through 4th years as stated on the AMA Freida website?

One of your residents posted about the resident complement being increased there a couple of years ago due to an increase in specimens. However when I look at the accredited program history at the ACGME website it seems like the number of approved positions has been relatively static at ~22. I personally wonder how many other pathology programs have had three different program directors in the last 4 years.
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exPCM said:
I have no interest in your program as I finished residency several years ago. However I do think it is valuable for medical students to learn to critically analyze information about programs in this forum. I know that I was mislead and uninformed about certain issues during my residency interviews.
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Agree. I, too, don't care about the situation at NW personally, but I think this discussion should be a good learning tool for medical students.

I'm glad the residents there are happy, but I also agree with the others: the facts just don't all add up, and something smells real bad. Either there has been a magical turnaround and everything is awesome or that is some real good Kool-Aid.

No matter. Everyone should just learn what they can from this interesting discussion.
 
elburrito said:
Regardless of what problems or restructuring may be going on, I think it is still possible that Northwestern is a nationally renowned residency for pathology, and is a "brand name " program. I still would consider it and University of Chicago 2 of the best programs in the midwest.


I hope this discussion thread doesn't degrade into a flaming thread. I can understand how the 1500 people or so who are interested enough in pathology to visit this forum and read this thread might think negatively of the program based on what is said here, and therefore what is said here might be a sensitive issue for the residents and the programs national reputation.
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Hahaha....:laugh:
Your first statement is a joke... The mere fact that Northwestern faculty/residents have to lobby for applicants on this forum should warn you that it is NOT a reputable program (currently). Add this to the fact that they can't fill in the match, that they lost 1/2 their class (dropout, regardless of the reason), and the fact that asking faculty in pathology about Norwestern usually results in stern warnings to not even bother to apply should really tell you otherwise. Their national reputation is "suck". Calling this and UofC the best 2 programs in the Midwest sounds ignorant (although UofC has a good/great program and DeMay and Kumar).

I really wish NWern and their new PD all the luck in the world. Hopefully one day they will have as great a program as their residents on this forum make out.
 
I wouldn't really agree with that - the lobbying could be because many of the previous problems have been fixed and now they are trying to move on. But part of moving on means attracting good residents. The point of all of this is that if an interviewing resident is considering the program, they definitely need to do so with a critical eye, but it could also be a great opportunity.
 
gbwillner said:
Hahaha....:laugh:
Your first statement is a joke... The mere fact that Northwestern faculty/residents have to lobby for applicants on this forum should warn you that it is NOT a reputable program (currently). Add this to the fact that they can't fill in the match, that they lost 1/2 their class (dropout, regardless of the reason), and the fact that asking faculty in pathology about Norwestern usually results in stern warnings to not even bother to apply should really tell you otherwise. Their national reputation is "suck". Calling this and UofC the best 2 programs in the Midwest sounds ignorant (although UofC has a good/great program and DeMay and Kumar).

I really wish NWern and their new PD all the luck in the world. Hopefully one day they will have as great a program as their residents on this forum make out.
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Is it just me or does this post sound elitist, aka "I'm better than thou"?
 
There is a statement above about U Chicago and Northwestern being among the best Midwest programs. I think it is worth mentioning that there are some other really fine programs in the Midwest (for example: Mayo (MN), Wash U (St. Louis), Michigan, Cleveland Clinic, Ohio State, Indiana)
Looking back at this thread I can only see 4 changes at Northwestern that have been specifically mentioned:
1. There is a new program director
2. They now assign 3 residents to gross daily - which with no PAs and 45000 surgicals (not including the 25000 dermpath cases) it would seem these three residents might be getting hammered with grossing every day.
3. They have hired new faculty
4. They have a 5 PM unknown conference every day with Dr. Rao that the three grossing residents do not have to attend

The rest of the responses are vague IMHO:
1. Residents in the past have gone to off campus electives at the AFIP and U Chicago (so does that mean off campus electives are currently allowed?)
2. They will be building a new grossing room and may hire a PA in the future.
3. The residents are happy and they are a team
4. The residents get great fellowships

I am glad we have residents from the program posting that they are happy. I hope that the new PD is swiftly moving the program in a positive direction. However, it would be real interesting to hear what specific changes the program director has actually implemented since taking over the position.
One thing that is clear is the program seems heavily weighted toward AP as I count 27 months of required AP rotations and 19 months of required CP rotations (PGY-1 2 months, PGY-2 5 months, PGY-3 8 months, PGY-4 4 months) and 2 months of electives in the rotation template ( http://www.pathology.northwestern.edu/Residency/IndexAPCP.html)
This is in contrast to programs like Mayo which has 20 AP months, 16 CP months, and 12 months of electives ( http://www.mayo.edu/msgme/anatomicpath-r-curriculum.html#rotationdescriptions ) , Wash U which has 22.5 AP months, 16.5 CP months, and 9 months of electives ( http://pathimm.wustl.edu/training/resblocks.php ), and Cleveland Clinic with 21 AP months, 21 CP months, and 6 months of electives ( http://my.clevelandclinic.org/pathology/education/residencydefault.aspx )
 
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elburrito said:
Regardless of what problems or restructuring may be going on, I think it is still possible that Northwestern is a nationally renowned residency for pathology, and is a "brand name " program. I still would consider it and University of Chicago 2 of the best programs in the midwest.
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I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, only your's is wrong :smuggrin:. NW isn't even necessarily in the top 3 for Chicago, let alone the midwest. Brand name of school does not always equal brand name of program and as has been mentioned, there are many outstanding programs in the midwest, and it should be noted that there are several strong programs in Chicago.

I've heard from local attendings (even some NW attendings), that Rush, UIC, Loyola (and obviously UChicago) offer better quality of training currently. Hopefully NW will get squared away quickly, but until then, lets stop this tomfoolery and tell it as it is.

tt
 
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