Pre Medical Students and cheating/unfair advantages

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Japika

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In a lot of my classes, I have seen students blatantly cheating.

For example in large inclined classrooms they would sit at the top, and share answers on their laps. No proctor could walk up to them, before they hid the papers under their chair. And because it's inclined, it was almost impossible to see them as you walked up. But the door, sits at the very top, so as I left, I could see them cheating.

I have seen a lot of other pre med students in my classes cheating like this, usually sharing answers, and it's (pardon the stereotype) the frat/sorority boys/girls who are usually doing it, but while, throughout all the lectures, it’s these frat boys and sorority girls who constantly talk during the class.

Also, in two notable pre med classes I have taken, we often had pop quizzes at the end of some of the lectures. These kids would skip the entire class, and show up 10 minutes before it got out, just taking the quiz.

Now, I want to hope they will get what they deserve, but I can't help but feel like, I am getting screwed because of these other kids. Generally I wouldn’t care, but for some reason, when I see these potential competitors for medical school seats, cheating, I get really mad. I know it’s partially the professor’s fault, because they could easily stop it, and they obviously don’t want to but still.

Does anybody else get mad (physically angry) when they see people cheating, or would you get mad if you saw other students show up just to take quizzes like that??
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Japika said:
In a lot of my classes, I have seen students blatantly cheating.

For example in large inclined classrooms they would sit at the top, and share answers on their laps. No proctor could walk up to them, before they hid the papers under their chair. And because it's inclined, it was almost impossible to see them as you walked up. But the door, sits at the very top, so as I left, I could see them cheating.

I have seen a lot of other pre med students in my classes cheating like this, usually sharing answers, and it's (pardon the stereotype) the frat/sorority boys/girls who are usually doing it, but while, throughout all the lectures, it’s these frat boys and sorority girls who constantly talk during the class.

Also, in two notable pre med classes I have taken, we often had pop quizzes at the end of some of the lectures. These kids would skip the entire class, and show up 10 minutes before it got out, just taking the quiz.

Now, I want to hope they will get what they deserve, but I can't help but feel like, I am getting screwed because of these other kids. Generally I wouldn’t care, but for some reason, when I see these potential competitors for medical school seats, cheating, I get really mad. I know it’s partially the professor’s fault, because they could easily stop it, and they obviously don’t want to but still.

Does anybody else get mad (physically angry) when they see people cheating, or would you get mad if you saw other students show up just to take quizzes like that??
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Notify the professor of the first type of dishonesty so he can better position proctors to stop it or institute a seating chart to eradicate it.

Coming in for the 10 minutes of quiz time isnt cheating, its budgeting time, sorry.
 
I saw two sorority girls cheating on my organic chemistry final a few years ago. They were sitting in the row in front of me in one of those very sloped classrooms. While I was initially angered by the situation, I didn't report it. Since the class was curved, I figured that if these two girls were dumb enough to cheat, they probably weren't well-prepared for the exam, and their scores would lower the class average. As it was a curved class, it was really in my best interest not to do anything about the situation. By the way, those two girls are no longer pre-med.

I just think of "the curve" when I see people cheating and end up getting a lot less angry than I would if it was a class graded by percentage.
 
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If you have witnessed cheating, I think it is your responsibility to say something to the professor. Not reporting it is as bad as doing it yourself (IMHO). Yeah, it pisses me off to no end when people think they can cheat their way into medical school, while I work my bum off to do it honestly.

I had a prof this year tell my class, as he was handing out the midterms, that if he caught anyone cheating, he would do everything in his power to kick them out of school, and to make sure they never, ever, ever, got into a professional school (most of the students in this class have med or optometry or vet med aspirations). It's nice to see a prof actually care about what goes on in his class. Most would too, if given the chance to do something about it.
 
Japika said:
In a lot of my classes, I have seen students blatantly cheating.

For example in large inclined classrooms they would sit at the top, and share answers on their laps. No proctor could walk up to them, before they hid the papers under their chair. And because it's inclined, it was almost impossible to see them as you walked up. But the door, sits at the very top, so as I left, I could see them cheating.

I have seen a lot of other pre med students in my classes cheating like this, usually sharing answers, and it's (pardon the stereotype) the frat/sorority boys/girls who are usually doing it, but while, throughout all the lectures, it's these frat boys and sorority girls who constantly talk during the class.

Also, in two notable pre med classes I have taken, we often had pop quizzes at the end of some of the lectures. These kids would skip the entire class, and show up 10 minutes before it got out, just taking the quiz.

Now, I want to hope they will get what they deserve, but I can't help but feel like, I am getting screwed because of these other kids. Generally I wouldn't care, but for some reason, when I see these potential competitors for medical school seats, cheating, I get really mad. I know it's partially the professor's fault, because they could easily stop it, and they obviously don't want to but still.

Does anybody else get mad (physically angry) when they see people cheating, or would you get mad if you saw other students show up just to take quizzes like that??
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People cheat, thats life. They will usually get caught eventually, but sometimes they dont. Theres really not much you can do about it unless you plan to be the one to tell on them. If not, just move on w/ your school work and worry about what you do. Also, these pre med cheaters still have to take the MCAT, which is pretty much impossible to cheat on. If they really arent capable of doing well in these courses then it will show on the MCAT.

Secondly, the idea that frat and sorority girls are the ones that are cheating most of the time is absurd. I dunno if you meant it like that, but thats how it came out. Frats/sororirties always have a bad rep, but there are some very intelligent people that enjoying being apart of that social community and theres nothing wrong with that. Not all frat boys are drunken *ssholes that cheat and not all sorority girls are ditsy girls that sleep around.

Thirdlly, I dont see the problem with skipping lecture and coming to the quiz. You don't have to be in class. If they can skip lecture and still do well on the quizzes (w/o cheating) then more power to them. There's really nothing wrong with that.
 
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Two Words: M- Cat.

Let the bastards cheat all they want. Their 17 on the MCAT isn't going to get them anywhere. (Unless they cheated on the MCAT, but I don't think that's really possible)

And if they make it through the MCAT, then they'll cheat their way through med school. And then they'll suck it up on their Boards.

You see, you win eventually anyway. So, keep your chin up. And bust them out with the teacher if you want too. That would just be fun.
 
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Sarg's kid said:
Two Words: M- Cat.

Let the bastards cheat all they want. Their 17 on the MCAT isn't going to get them anywhere. (Unless they cheated on the MCAT, but I don't think that's really possible)

And if they make it through the MCAT, then they'll cheat their way through med school. And then they'll suck it up on their Boards.

You see, you win eventually anyway. So, keep your chin up. And bust them out with the teacher if you want too. That would just be fun.
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Word.

I've always had the same attitude; cheating is only going to get a person so far, especially in this process. What makes the most mad is when people are cheating in easy classes. They're just lazy, and lazy people don't become doctors.
 
Does anybody else get mad (physically angry) when they see people cheating,
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No, it does confuse me, however, that so many people on SDN apparently expend so much energy fretting over what other people are doing. I see it, and I ignore it. I have no gun, no badge, and no desire to get involved in these things.

would you get mad if you saw other students show up just to take quizzes like that
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I have done that in several classes (show up at the end for a quiz). It is because I have discovered one of the few truly useful skills that college gives you the chance to hone: time managment.

Plus my sleep is more peaceful at home.
 
Frankly, I say let them cheat, but report their methods to teacher. If they can stay ahead of the teacher, then that's fine, but in the end they will lose. If they cheat through all their courses, they won't have the knowledge or analytical skills to take the MCAT. More likely, they get busted at some point, and med schools aren't too into taking cheaters anyways, MCAT score or not.
 
I was a TA for a couple of classes. I quickly discovered that the students that we suspected of cheating (proving it is REALLY hard) never turned out to be the ones doing well in the class. Now, it could be that the good students are better at not being caught/suspected, but I suspect that it's just much easier to do well in the class honestly.
 
Japika said:
In a lot of my classes, I have seen students blatantly cheating.

For example in large inclined classrooms they would sit at the top, and share answers on their laps. No proctor could walk up to them, before they hid the papers under their chair. And because it's inclined, it was almost impossible to see them as you walked up. But the door, sits at the very top, so as I left, I could see them cheating.

I have seen a lot of other pre med students in my classes cheating like this, usually sharing answers, and it's (pardon the stereotype) the frat/sorority boys/girls who are usually doing it, but while, throughout all the lectures, it’s these frat boys and sorority girls who constantly talk during the class.

Also, in two notable pre med classes I have taken, we often had pop quizzes at the end of some of the lectures. These kids would skip the entire class, and show up 10 minutes before it got out, just taking the quiz.

Now, I want to hope they will get what they deserve, but I can't help but feel like, I am getting screwed because of these other kids. Generally I wouldn’t care, but for some reason, when I see these potential competitors for medical school seats, cheating, I get really mad. I know it’s partially the professor’s fault, because they could easily stop it, and they obviously don’t want to but still.

Does anybody else get mad (physically angry) when they see people cheating, or would you get mad if you saw other students show up just to take quizzes like that??
Click to expand...

Coming in just to take the quiz and then leaving is not cheating at all. I don't even see how you would think it is, or why it would even annoy you. Its just good time management...
 
Japika said:
In a lot of my classes, I have seen students blatantly cheating.

For example in large inclined classrooms they would sit at the top, and share answers on their laps. No proctor could walk up to them, before they hid the papers under their chair. And because it's inclined, it was almost impossible to see them as you walked up. But the door, sits at the very top, so as I left, I could see them cheating.

I have seen a lot of other pre med students in my classes cheating like this, usually sharing answers, and it's (pardon the stereotype) the frat/sorority boys/girls who are usually doing it, but while, throughout all the lectures, it’s these frat boys and sorority girls who constantly talk during the class.

Also, in two notable pre med classes I have taken, we often had pop quizzes at the end of some of the lectures. These kids would skip the entire class, and show up 10 minutes before it got out, just taking the quiz.

Now, I want to hope they will get what they deserve, but I can't help but feel like, I am getting screwed because of these other kids. Generally I wouldn’t care, but for some reason, when I see these potential competitors for medical school seats, cheating, I get really mad. I know it’s partially the professor’s fault, because they could easily stop it, and they obviously don’t want to but still.

Does anybody else get mad (physically angry) when they see people cheating, or would you get mad if you saw other students show up just to take quizzes like that??
Click to expand...

Man, in one of my pre-med classes, theres always these typical pencil neck nerds with glasses and pocket protectors who probably play dungeons&dragons all day(pardon the stereotype) who are always into everyone elses business and trying to steal studyguides to gain an unfair advantage(aka gunners), what should I do about it?

See, not very nice when people use stereotypes now is it? They are called that for a reason, usually because a person has ONE experience and then applies a sweeping generalization to an entire group. I really have no tolerance for that type of attitude.

To address your original concern. People who cheat will at some point or another have that catch up with them. If it is a sequential course in which the information builds upon itself, I suspect this method will only work out for them for so long. I also dont think they're going to be able to cheat themselves a good MCAT score. So instead of getting your panties in a twist, just rest assured that these people will eventually get theirs, and you dont even have to be the one to drop the dime...
 
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I had a physics teacher who told us that cheating was absolutely ok as long as he didnt catch you because if he did then you got an F and he would try to kick you out of school. He said if you could cheat without him seeing it then you deserved the advantage for having the balls to do it and the skill to pull it off. That guy was badass.
 
I started a similar thread a couple of weeks back. A couple of students who were in my physics 2 class were using old exams(the prof never changed any of the questions). The people who had the old exams had 90%+ grades on the first exam; I received a 75%. After the first exam, I decided to send the prof an anonymous letter explaining the situation. We received our exam 2 grades yesterday. I beat their scores by about 25%. So, if you think cheating is happening, tell the prof. Professors hate it when students cheat. When you cheat, you are trying to belittle the professor.
 
PainKiller69 said:
If you catch someone cheating, you need to report them. Aside from that, trip them as they walk into class, switch their drink with one spiked with laxitive, or something. Also, say to them "what the ****, dude? you really need to cheat to get a 3.5?"
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Lol, someone's got a violent sense of humor...: )

But seriously, I agree fully with what painkiller69 said: report them. Its not only unfair to you but unfair to the professor, everyone else who is taking that class, the university itself, and not to mention everyone who attends/graduates from that university because they are relying on the fact that that institution has a reputation for being an honest, fair, reputable university. It is NOT tattling or overreacting...if someone cheats and you see it happen, you should report them. I would.
 
Everyone out there who is saying report them. YOUR A BUNCH OF TOOLS!!!!! Mind your own business!!! Just because you too insecure and worried they will do better than you because they cheated. Cheat is a fact of life, you are not the honor code police.. I say unless your a TA or there cheating some how effects your just do your thing and don't worry about it.
 
MedicFL said:
Everyone out there who is saying report them. YOUR A BUNCH OF TOOLS!!!!! Mind your own business!!! Just because you too insecure and worried they will do better than you because they cheated. Cheat is a fact of life, you are not the honor code police.. I say unless your a TA or there cheating some how effects your just do your thing and don't worry about it.
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I concurr...unless the class is curved and their dicking you...STFU
 
life's too short to really be concerned about what other people do. That said if its bothering you...tell the professor, I think ethically its the right thing to do, or just alert the TA's first, but seriously don't think too much about it cus its not worth your time.
 
As others have said, the cheating will catch up with them. One way it could catch up with them is by you or someone else doing the right thing and letting the professor know. Unless there is no curve in the class, the cheating does hurt you and everyone else who is trying to do it honestly. If the cheaters are stupid enough to blatantly cheat in front of classmates, then they deserve what they get: a fat F and disciplinary action.

I agree that you have to accept that cheating is a fact of life and that some people will always cheat. That doesn't mean that you can't do something about it if you witness it. You are not a tool for telling, you are just standing up for yourself, your classmates, your professor, and your school.
 
You guys need to stop worrying about other people and instead worry about yourselves
 
MedicFL said:
Everyone out there who is saying report them. YOUR A BUNCH OF TOOLS!!!!! Mind your own business!!! Just because you too insecure and worried they will do better than you because they cheated. Cheat is a fact of life, you are not the honor code police.. I say unless your a TA or there cheating some how effects your just do your thing and don't worry about it.
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Im sorry my moral code requires me to do everything within my ability to ensure an even playing field. I am not sorry that it hinders your attempts to gain an unfair advantage, if you dont cheat you have nothing to gain/lose from me reporting someone who does, why do you care so much?
 
chessknt87 said:
Im sorry my moral code requires me to do everything within my ability to ensure an even playing field. I am not sorry that it hinders your attempts to gain an unfair advantage, if you dont cheat you have nothing to gain/lose from me reporting someone who does, why do you care so much?
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Because nosey anal-retentive students constantly worried about everyone else are annoying, and usually points to some insecurity or inferiority complex. If your doing the right thing thats all that matters, mind your own business and go about your day.



These are the kind of people that narc out their classmates when it has no effect on them:
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MedicFL said:
Everyone out there who is saying report them. YOUR A BUNCH OF TOOLS!!!!! Mind your own business!!! Just because you too insecure and worried they will do better than you because they cheated. Cheat is a fact of life, you are not the honor code police.. I say unless your a TA or there cheating some how effects your just do your thing and don't worry about it.
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Funny, at my school, if you don't report cheating but somebody else does, and they also say you witnessed it, you can be kicked out of school.

So reporting blatant cheating at my school was more self-preservation than anything else. That, and I don't think anybody is so above other people that they deserve to be able to cheat, so I have nothing against reporting it. Why should somebody be able to cheat and do better than me if I actually studied and took the test honestly? Frankly, I think reporting a cheater in college is almost an intervention, before they end up like the next Ken Lay. At least in college they aren't screwing over too many people besides themselves.
 
cpants said:
As others have said, the cheating will catch up with them. One way it could catch up with them is by you or someone else doing the right thing and letting the professor know. ..
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Agree. At many schools there is likely an Honor Code that specifically obligates you to report observed cheating. Not doing so is technically a violation of the Code, hence unethical. You are going into a self policing profession, that only works if you do what you are ethically obligated to do. Shrugging things off like this and figuring they will get what's coming to them is abdicating your responsibility. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. If you don't want to finger someone specifically, you can send an email to the prof that indicates certain people were observed cheating and here's how they did it. That at least would allow the school to take actions to prevent this kind of cheating in the future. It does hurt you when others cheat because (1) it hurts the schools reputation which reflects badly on you, (2) it's hard to compete on a curve against cheaters, (3) profs tend to adjust exams to try and achieve certain averages -- if too many of the low scorers cheat their way up to higher grades, it will reflect on the difficulty of subsequent tests/grading/expectations.
 
Cheating really annoys me as well. I haven't witnessed any dishonesty obvious and blatant enough to report, but we all know it happens.

I agree with those who support reporting cheaters. My reasoning is that I would say the "right" thing to do in this situation can be determined by asking what would be "right" in every instance of cheating, instead of examining each individual case. This doesn't work with all things, but it seems to me like it applies here.

When I look at it that way, the answer seems obvious. As a general rule, the student body can't condone cheating, as it erodes the integrity of the education system and the value of a college degree.
 
beachblonde said:
Funny, at my school, if you don't report cheating but somebody else does, and they also say you witnessed it, you can be kicked out of school.
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I would love to see a school try to take action on this policy.

Admin: Did you witness Bob cheating?
Student: No.
Admin: He says you did, we know you saw him cheating?
Student: I was concentrating on my test, why would I be looking at Bob?
Admin:I don't belive you.
Student: Well come up with some reliable evidence, a cheaters word isn't worth much.
Admin: um...uhhhh.ummm, you can go back to class now, thanks for your time.

A scare tactic I say.
 
ANF1986 said:
These are the kind of people that narc out their classmates when it has no effect on them:
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Does that mean we win the frat cup and get the hot girlfriends at the end of the movie?
 
ANF1986 said:
Because nosey anal-retentive students constantly worried about everyone else are annoying, and usually points to some insecurity or inferiority complex. If your doing the right thing thats all that matters, mind your own business and go about your day.



These are the kind of people that narc out their classmates when it has no effect on them:
adxGetMedia.aspx
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Well if you want to apply that stereotype to people like me far be it from me to stop you.
 
ANF1986 said:
Because nosey anal-retentive students constantly worried about everyone else are annoying, and usually points to some insecurity or inferiority complex. If your doing the right thing thats all that matters, mind your own business and go about your day.
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Yes, surely it's nobody's responsibility to report wrongdoing. If your neighbor is molesting his child, who cares? It certainly doesn't affect you. So your boss is embezzling money - big whoop, as long as you get your paycheck, right? And if a fellow physician is covering up gross negligence, you should ignore it to show how secure you are, right?

This kind of attitude is pathetic. Anyone with any moral sense should realize that you ARE responsible for reporting violations - society would fall apart if people ignored all wrongdoing that didn't affect themselves.
 
chessknt87 said:
Well if you want to apply that stereotype to people like me far be it from me to stop you.
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I was really taking a jab at the stereotypes that the OP applied at the beginning of his post... :)
 
chessknt87 said:
Im sorry my moral code requires me to do everything within my ability to ensure an even playing field. I am not sorry that it hinders your attempts to gain an unfair advantage, if you dont cheat you have nothing to gain/lose from me reporting someone who does, why do you care so much?
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So your moral code allows you to destroy other students' lives so you can get 1% higher on your orgo midterm? Sounds like you have everything in perspective.

While both are morally bad, the act of reporting is much worse than the act of cheating. Reporting encourages antisocial, competitive behavior that changes the culture of the classroom and alienates you from your peers. In my experience, the people cheating were never the ones setting curves; rather, they were the kids just scraping by to earn a degree. From the responses to this thread, and especially the "frat/sorority" comment, I'm beginning to understand reporting is more about alleviating insecurities (personal or academic) rather than "ensur[ing] an even playing field."
 
ultimately, I think you should do what feels right for you. Some ppl don't care and others do. I remember when I did my french immersion program there was a girl who spoke fluent spanish next me who kept looking at my exam. What boggles my mind was that she had an advantage, spanish and french are so similar! Yet she was cheating off of me... ridiculous. Anyhow I digress. As I look back I wish I had said, "are you ******ed?" but hindsight is hindsight. Like another poster said, it will catch up to them... or if you wanna be funny.. you could raise your hand and ask "are we all allowed to cheat...?":laugh:
 
pazan said:
So your moral code allows you to destroy other students' lives so you can get 1% higher on your orgo midterm? Sounds like you have everything in perspective.

While both are morally bad, the act of reporting is much worse than the act of cheating. Reporting encourages antisocial, competitive behavior that changes the culture of the classroom and alienates you from your peers. In my experience, the people cheating were never the ones setting curves; rather, they were the kids just scraping by to earn a degree. From the responses to this thread, and especially the "frat/sorority" comment, I'm beginning to understand reporting is more about alleviating insecurities (personal or academic) rather than "ensur[ing] an even playing field."
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Insane. I can't believe people on this board actually think this way.

First of all, the person who reports the cheating isn't ruining the cheater's life, the cheater is destroying his own life. You make a decision to cheat, and you take a risk. If you are stupid enough to get caught, you get what you deserve. Is it the cops, judge, and jury who ruin the thief's life? How about a little personal responsibility?

Reporting cheating is worse than cheating? What? The point of the classroom is not to promote social, noncompetitive behavior, but rather to promote learning and hard work. Kids who are cheating aren't scraping by to earn a degree. They aren't earning anything if they have the answers in front of them during the exam.

Cheating is selfish behavior which hurts everyone in the class who is trying to honestly learn. It doesn't matter which end of the spectrum the cheater is on. Whether they are cheating to get a D or cheating to get an A they still drive the curve up dishonestly.

I also find it ironic that you criticize other posters for generalizing about frat/sorority people cheating, yet you assume all people with the integrity to report academic misconduct are somehow insecure.
 
cpants said:
Insane. I can't believe people on this board actually think this way.

First of all, the person who reports the cheating isn't ruining the cheater's life, the cheater is destroying his own life. You make a decision to cheat, and you take a risk. If you are stupid enough to get caught, you get what you deserve. Is it the cops, judge, and jury who ruin the thief's life? How about a little personal responsibility?

Reporting cheating is worse than cheating? What? The point of the classroom is not to promote social, noncompetitive behavior, but rather to promote learning and hard work. Kids who are cheating aren't scraping by to earn a degree. They aren't earning anything if they have the answers in front of them during the exam.

Cheating is selfish behavior which hurts everyone in the class who is trying to honestly learn. It doesn't matter which end of the spectrum the cheater is on. Whether they are cheating to get a D or cheating to get an A they still drive the curve up dishonestly.

I also find it ironic that you criticize other posters for generalizing about frat/sorority people cheating, yet you assume all people with the integrity to report academic misconduct are somehow insecure.
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QFT, couldnt have said it better myself. I hope you are in the small minority who think that way because I will be truly disappointed if I find out that a large number my peers have cheated their way to the same place I am.
 
chessknt87 said:
QFT, couldnt have said it better myself. I hope you are in the small minority who think that way because I will be truly disappointed if I find out that a large number my peers have cheated their way to the same place I am.
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I guess so...I've always been brought up to believe that a snitch is the lowest form of life on earth, and to mind your own business if its not affecting you (I.e.-if its not a curved class)..but I guess I'll chalk that up to cultural differences....
 
cpants said:
First of all, the person who reports the cheating isn't ruining the cheater's life, the cheater is destroying his own life. You make a decision to cheat, and you take a risk. If you are stupid enough to get caught, you get what you deserve. Is it the cops, judge, and jury who ruin the thief's life? How about a little personal responsibility?
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As is apparant from my previous posts, I am against the policing of fellow students. But I definetly agee with this quoted section. By breaking any rule, regulation, law, policy or whatever you want to call them, you are taking a risk. If one is not prepared to deal with the potential ramifications of their risk taking then they shouldn't take the risk and just hit the damn books like the rest of the class.

That said, I still am against ratting out of classmates.
 
Vania said:
I saw two sorority girls cheating on my organic chemistry final a few years ago....
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I love how the fact that they are sorority girls is essential to understanding the story.

On a more serious note, yes it sucks because you have probably worked hard to do well and they are getting by without having to put in any effort. However, chances are, (1) they are going to get caught eventually and the consequences will be serious for them, or (2) they will reach some point in their academic career (MCAT, DAT, LSAT, etc) where they physically cannot cheat and they will hit a pretty serious roadblock.

The point about the curve applies sometimes, but if they are "good at cheating" they will do well on the exam and hurt the curve. Either way, they will eventually get what they deserve. I am the kind of person that doesn't care what others are doing in this situation unless they are doing something that could hurt other people (like they could in medical school, on a job, etc.). Different people handle these situations in a variety of ways depending on who it is and what the specific situation is.

On a slightly related note, be prepared to answer how you would handle this situation in medical school interviews because it will most likely come up as a question.
 
Loon said:
I was a TA for a couple of classes. I quickly discovered that the students that we suspected of cheating (proving it is REALLY hard) never turned out to be the ones doing well in the class. Now, it could be that the good students are better at not being caught/suspected, but I suspect that it's just much easier to do well in the class honestly.
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I have to second this as well. When I taught Anatomy lab, I watched this kid looking at other people's papers through the entire test. I decided not to tear it up until I checked his score. Dude got like a 32. Out of 100.

I figured if that was his cheating score, then there wasn't too much to worry about.
 
MedicFL said:
Everyone out there who is saying report them. YOUR A BUNCH OF TOOLS!!!!! Mind your own business!!! Just because you too insecure and worried they will do better than you because they cheated. Cheat is a fact of life, you are not the honor code police.. I say unless your a TA or there cheating some how effects your just do your thing and don't worry about it.
Click to expand...

Note the rage that this topic incurs among cheaters. (By the looks of things, freshman english...:laugh:) Yoo dont lern gud gramer when you cheat YOU'RE way threw kollege.
 
Sarg's kid said:
I have to second this as well. When I taught Anatomy lab, I watched this kid looking at other people's papers through the entire test. I decided not to tear it up until I checked his score. Dude got like a 32. Out of 100.

I figured if that was his cheating score, then there wasn't too much to worry about.
Click to expand...

A cheating score of 32%! That is quite the epic fail.
 
pazan said:
So your moral code allows you to destroy other students' lives so you can get 1% higher on your orgo midterm? Sounds like you have everything in perspective.

While both are morally bad, the act of reporting is much worse than the act of cheating. Reporting encourages antisocial, competitive behavior that changes the culture of the classroom and alienates you from your peers. In my experience, the people cheating were never the ones setting curves; rather, they were the kids just scraping by to earn a degree. From the responses to this thread, and especially the "frat/sorority" comment, I'm beginning to understand reporting is more about alleviating insecurities (personal or academic) rather than "ensur[ing] an even playing field."
Click to expand...

Is this serious?

So because these students don't give a rat's ass about their classes, and thus would fail to get a degree, we should let them cheat ourselves, the class, the school, and the entire system itself so that they can scrape by?

Students going to school to become doctors should have a moral and ethical obligation to report this. It is unfair to everyone, including the person cheating. You should not want people participating in these actions to become doctors, or even have a shot of becoming one. They should get there themselves, just like you and most everyone else is.

Why do you think there are rankings or GPA at all? Not to encourage competitive behavior?

Based on your ideology, a beggar should be able to walk around and kill and rob people and not be prosecuted, because he's just scraping to get by.

It's not a matter of getting an extra percent on your grade. It's a matter of ethics and responsibility. You're hurting that student more by letting him cheat than reporting him. Like everyone else has said, he'll eventually get bitten in the ass by it anyway. If you report him, there's a good chance he might actually change his ways and realize that cheating isn't taking him anywhere.

Most schools encourage a fair and level grounds for learning. Students cheating to get by most certainly is not fair or level with the students actually studying and busting their ass to do decent in a course.
 
Crazyday said:
Is this serious?

So because these students don't give a rat's ass about their classes, and thus would fail to get a degree, we should let them cheat ourselves, the class, the school, and the entire system itself so that they can scrape by?

Students going to school to become doctors should have a moral and ethical obligation to report this. It is unfair to everyone, including the person cheating. You should not want people participating in these actions to become doctors, or even have a shot of becoming one. They should get there themselves, just like you and most everyone else is.

Why do you think there are rankings or GPA at all? Not to encourage competitive behavior?

Based on your ideology, a beggar should be able to walk around and kill and rob people and not be prosecuted, because he's just scraping to get by.

It's not a matter of getting an extra percent on your grade. It's a matter of ethics and responsibility. You're hurting that student more by letting him cheat than reporting him. Like everyone else has said, he'll eventually get bitten in the ass by it anyway. If you report him, there's a good chance he might actually change his ways and realize that cheating isn't taking him anywhere.

Most schools encourage a fair and level grounds for learning. Students cheating to get by most certainly is not fair or level with the students actually studying and busting their ass to do decent in a course.
Click to expand...

I think this threads getting a little craaazy, so lets all calm down and give each other hugs, but no cheating! If I see anyone accepting hugs and not giving them, I am totally reporting you.

Lets turn this arguement medically related. If a physician gives out free medical care to a friend, cheating the hospital out of funds, should you report him? What if he's doing it for a homeless patient?
 
DrYoda said:
I would love to see a school try to take action on this policy.

Admin: Did you witness Bob cheating?
Student: No.
Admin: He says you did, we know you saw him cheating?
Student: I was concentrating on my test, why would I be looking at Bob?
Admin:I don't belive you.
Student: Well come up with some reliable evidence, a cheaters word isn't worth much.
Admin: um...uhhhh.ummm, you can go back to class now, thanks for your time.

A scare tactic I say.
Click to expand...

I would say, yeah scare tactic, but my best friend in college sat on the head of the council that evaluated students for cheating (among other things). What often happens is a professor will witness cheating, witness other students watching said cheating yet doing nothing, and then report the whole lot. Bad news all around. While witnessing and not reporting didn't usually get people expelled, sometimes they would get suspended on simply flunk the class.

Sarg's kid said:
Note the rage that this topic incurs among cheaters. (By the looks of things, freshman english...:laugh:) Yoo dont lern gud gramer when you cheat YOU'RE way threw kollege.
Click to expand...

I'm glad somebody said this....I was going to in my original post, but decided against it. Look, people, you're supposed to be college educated adults, learn the difference between your/you're, its/it's, to/too, and their/there. It's not that hard, honest. I'm not the grammar police by any stretch of the imagination, but dang those are my some of my biggest pet peeves.
 
smm99 said:
If you have witnessed cheating, I think it is your responsibility to say something to the professor. Not reporting it is as bad as doing it yourself (IMHO). Yeah, it pisses me off to no end when people think they can cheat their way into medical school, while I work my bum off to do it honestly.

I had a prof this year tell my class, as he was handing out the midterms, that if he caught anyone cheating, he would do everything in his power to kick them out of school, and to make sure they never, ever, ever, got into a professional school (most of the students in this class have med or optometry or vet med aspirations). It's nice to see a prof actually care about what goes on in his class. Most would too, if given the chance to do something about it.
Click to expand...

I have witnessed cheating also but I don't agree that it is my responsibility to report it. I am not being paid to supervise and run the class. Furthermore it is ultimately them cheating themselves and not affecting me. (1 person in a 300 person class cheating will not mess the curve up)
 
How about everyone keep your eyes on your paper during the test and you won't be able to see someone cheating. Problem solved...
 
I'm not all that surprised with the responses here.. but for those who say that they won't report, would they actually say that if asked this question in an interview?

It has been asked before..just wondering how those will still respond with the same responses
 
fuzzywuz said:
I'm not all that surprised with the responses here.. but for those who say that they won't report, would they actually say that if asked this question in an interview?

It has been asked before..just wondering how those will still respond with the same responses
Click to expand...

If asked in an interview I would probably say I would talk to person and try to help them understand the subject so they don't have to cheat or some bs like that.
 
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