Think about it: How is WesternU going to get Patients?

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TJNova2011

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WesternU is situated about 30 miles away from USC. How will they manage to get patients in satuated market when USC, located in a poverty strucken area are struggling?
 
Poverty stricken people may not even think of going to the dentist until they need major surgery, maybe that's why they have difficulties bringing in patients. Western may only be 30 miles away, but it feels like a world away in terms of the lifestyle of the surrounding population. I don't think your point is a very valid concern. BTW, does UCLA have a problem bringing in patients? They're only 13 miles away and I haven't seen people complaining about it on these boards.
 
The Inland Empire is pretty large and is low to middle class. When I interviewed at Western I asked how they would get patients and they said they had a marketing strategy in place. I think if they really spend some money on marketing and get the word out the patients will show up.

If you build it....they will come.
 
Temple is city with many "lower" class individuals....and that's how they get so many patients.
 
I agree with one of the previous post. I'm from Southern Cali and Western's location in regards to USC's is completely irrelevant. With traffic on the freeway, it would take at least 1 or 1.5 to get from 1 school to the next. And, I also agree with the other posts that Western is located in a low-income area. I went to a dental hygiene school in Rancho Cucamonga, which is off the 10 fwy too in the Inland Empire. My classmates and I never had a problem getting patients. I'm sure Western Dental School will have no difficulty in recruiting patients or making their presence known in the community. There is a greater need than you can imagine. People making minimum wage or slightly higher turn to dental schools for affordable dental care. 😉
 
Patient Care Center will have a pharmacy, medical care, optometry care, podiatry care, and of course dental care, will bring a lot of patients from everywhere.

The patient care center is pretty unique, anybody else know of any school with something similar to westerns planned patient care center?
 
This post is so ridiculous... Western is great school because of it's location. The school is in the ghetto AKA Pomona. The population is 65 % Hispanic and completely undeserved. When I went there for my interview I drove around the town for about 40 minutes. I was stopping for gas when TWO people approached me and asked for money. Pomona will have plenty of patients. The class will be 64 students and the fourth year will be spent as an externship so plenty of patients will be seen.
 
iJackTeeth said:
Patient Care Center will have a pharmacy, medical care, optometry care, podiatry care, and of course dental care, will bring a lot of patients from everywhere.

The patient care center is pretty unique, anybody else know of any school with something similar to westerns planned patient care center?
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Doesn't midwesterN?
 
I don't think finding an adequate patient pool for Western University will be too big of an obstacle. What will be a problem is whether the the patient population can even afford the dental treatment at Western University despite the reduced fees. That's a problem that almost every dental school across the country has to face to some extent. Some schools face that problem more than others. When I was interviewing for specialty programs this past fall, I met a lot of applicants from all over the country and all of them said that they had to help pay for their patient's dental treatment in order to graduate. Some dental students paid more than others. One person paid $10,000 for the entire treatment plan for one of his patients. He was desperate to graduate. I had a discussion with my interviewer about this and she confirmed that many other applicants from all over the nation had told her similar stories.

But the big advantage that Western University will have is a large untapped hispanic/ latino population. There will be plenty of crowns, root canals, fillings, dentures, etc to be done. But whether or not they can still afford dental treatment at a reduced fee is another story. From my own experience and several of my former classmates, hispanic/ latino patients are awesome. They are so grateful for even the simplest dental treatment you render. And because they are so grateful, the majority of them will always be on time for appointments and will come as many times as you need them to come. When I was in dental school, I cherished all of my hispanic/ latino patients because I could always count on them to show up to their appointments on time and never cancel on me at the last minute. Having a patient keep thier appointment times is essential to graduating on time. Unfortunately, I too had to fork out some cash to help pay for thier treatment. That's a hidden cost that every dental student will have to consider regardless of which school they are going to attend. But I certainly think that Western University has the patient pool to flourish. Anyhow, that's my honest opinion.
 
Black Teeth said:
I don't think finding an adequate patient pool for Western University will be too big of an obstacle. What will be a problem is whether the the patient population can even afford the dental treatment at Western University despite the reduced fees. That's a problem that almost every dental school across the country has to face to some extent. Some schools face that problem more than others. When I was interviewing for specialty programs this past fall, I met a lot of applicants from all over the country and all of them said that they had to help pay for their patient's dental treatment in order to graduate. Some dental students paid more than others. One person paid $10,000 for the entire treatment plan for one of his patients. He was desperate to graduate. I had a discussion with my interviewer about this and she confirmed that many other applicants from all over the nation had told her similar stories.

But the big advantage that Western University will have is a large untapped hispanic/ latino population. There will be plenty of crowns, root canals, fillings, dentures, etc to be done. But whether or not they can still afford dental treatment at a reduced fee is another story. From my own experience and several of my former classmates, hispanic/ latino patients are awesome. They are so grateful for even the simplest dental treatment you render. And because they are so grateful, the majority of them will always be on time for appointments and will come as many times as you need them to come. When I was in dental school, I cherished all of my hispanic/ latino patients because I could always count on them to show up to their appointments on time and never cancel on me at the last minute. Having a patient keep thier appointment times is essential to graduating on time. Unfortunately, I too had to fork out some cash to help pay for thier treatment. That's a hidden cost that every dental student will have to consider regardless of which school they have to attent. But I certainly think that Western University has the patient pool to flourish. Anyhow, that's my honest opinion.
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Interesting? Is this true? Can any d-school students confirm? I've never herad of this before and it sounds like an extreme case?!
10,000 extra to graduate???
 
If distance were the only factor, LLU is only 30 miles east of Western, and they don't have any problems with patients. That being said, I don't think the Western attendees should worry too much. Good luck in 2009!
 
Dentgirl09 said:
Interesting? Is this true? Can any d-school students confirm? I've never herad of this before and it sounds like an extreme case?!
10,000 extra to graduate???
Click to expand...

Now that's definitely an extreme case. I don't think a dental student spending $10,000 is something that happens with a lot of frequency. But I'll tell you that I heard it straight from his mouth. But the dollar amount is irrelevant. The main point is that you should know that paying for the dental treatment of patients happens to a certain extent. What is there to prove? It's a choice that dental students make after they have weighed all the options. No one puts a gun to their head and tells them to pay. They voluntarily do it of their own free will. Some would rather pay it and graduate on time because they are heading off to a residency and don't want to lose their spot because they can't graduate. I already told you that I did it too. So it does happen. Many schools (which I cannot name) have thier students filled out a survery right before graduation and one of the questions they asked was how much money they spent to finance a patient's treatment. I have seen these forms with my own two eyes. So yes...it does happen and schools want to know about it so they can find ways to improve the situation but they don't prevent a student from paying for a patient's treatment if that is what the student wants to do. It is a free country after all...especially for the dental patients. LOL!
 
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Dentgirl09 said:
Interesting? Is this true? Can any d-school students confirm? I've never herad of this before and it sounds like an extreme case?!
10,000 extra to graduate???
Click to expand...

Black Teeth isn't exaggerating. I've heard this many times before too - students paying for their patients' treatment to get requirements done in order to graduate. I've heard the opposite too at some schools where the patients have figured out the desperate-student system. The patient resists getting the work done until the student pays them because the patients know that the student is desperate to do the work to graduate and will not only pay for the treatment and give the patient a cash bonus. I haven't heard a student pay as much as $10K, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
 
gryffindor said:
Black Teeth isn't exaggerating. I've heard this many times before too - students paying for their patients' treatment to get requirements done in order to graduate. I've heard the opposite too at some schools where the patients have figured out the desperate-student system. The patient resists getting the work done until the student pays them because the patients know that the student is desperate to do the work to graduate and will not only pay for the treatment and give the patient a cash bonus. I haven't heard a student pay as much as $10K, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
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Heheh...I second that. I forgot about that tactic. Happend a lot at the school I went to. Ahhhh...those old dental school memories...makes me glad I'm in the real world now where I can give the patient a good swift kick to the curb for trying to pull a stunt like that.

P.S. It's easy to rack up a $10,000 bill. A patient with a full mouth reconstruction involving crowns on every single tooth will easily do it with some left over to spare!!!
 
The community does not even know Western is here...When I interviewed there, and I got lost. I asked people inside 7-11, where is few blocks to western U and no one knows what western is. I finally found the small words on the top of building. I think that they need to make more ad/sign for that
 
Black Teeth said:
Heheh...I second that. I forgot about that tactic. Happend a lot at the school I went to. Ahhhh...those old dental school memories...makes me glad I'm in the real world now where I can give the patient a good swift kick to the curb for trying to pull a stunt like that.

P.S. It's easy to rack up a $10,000 bill. A patient with a full mouth reconstruction involving crowns on every single tooth will easily do it with some left over to spare!!!
Click to expand...

Do dental schools accept Denti-cal insurance? or other forms of insurance?
 
I don't think the question should be "How is Western Univ. going to get patients?" but rather "How is Southern California going to support the graduates of another local dental school?"
 
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I live in Southern Cali. and the 30 mile distance between SC and Western makes it feel like they are 100 miles apart. I think they serve 2 totally different population.
 
iJackTeeth said:
Do dental schools accept Denti-cal insurance? or other forms of insurance?
Click to expand...

Yes...for sure the state schools like UCLA and UCSF accept denti-cal and PPOs. Not so sure about UOP, Loma Linda, and USC. I don't think HMOs are well liked by dental schools...they are too restrictive. But denti-cal is only good for patients with minor dental problems...it's worthless for patients with moderate to severe dental problems which is the type of patient you'll most likely find at a dental school. Denti-cal won't even cover a posterior crown unless it needs a root canal! Denti-cal also only pays for one cleaning per year even though a cleaning is recommended every 6 months. In short, denti-cal is pretty useless to help pay for patient dental care in a dental school setting. And if the patient can't pay, you might end up paying for the procedures yourself...especially when it is getting close to graduation and it's a procedure you need to graduate.
 
Black Teeth said:
Yes...for sure the state schools like UCLA and UCSF accept denti-cal and PPOs. Not so sure about UOP, Loma Linda, and USC. I don't think HMOs are well liked by dental schools...they are too restrictive. But denti-cal is only good for patients with minor dental problems...it's worthless for patients with moderate to severe dental problems which is the type of patient you'll most likely find at a dental school. Denti-cal won't even cover a posterior crown unless it needs a root canal! Denti-cal also only pays for one cleaning per year even though a cleaning is recommended every 6 months. In short, denti-cal is pretty useless to help pay for patient dental care in a dental school setting. And if the patient can't pay, you might end up paying for the procedures yourself...especially when it is getting close to graduation and it's a procedure you need to graduate.
Click to expand...


thanks for the info, pretty scary though
 
Well I have lived about 90% of my life between Long Beach (LA) and Riverside (Inland Empire) and what people do not understand is that SoCal is one giant city, there are not breaks from the coastline all the way out into the desert hours from LA in every direction. UCLA, USC, Pomona, and Loma Linda in a straight line are only maybe 70 miles apart from end to end, but the population in between is all one continous city. Western should have no problem finding patients.
 
Black Teeth said:
I don't think finding an adequate patient pool for Western University will be too big of an obstacle. What will be a problem is whether the the patient population can even afford the dental treatment at Western University despite the reduced fees. That's a problem that almost every dental school across the country has to face to some extent. Some schools face that problem more than others. When I was interviewing for specialty programs this past fall, I met a lot of applicants from all over the country and all of them said that they had to help pay for their patient's dental treatment in order to graduate. Some dental students paid more than others. One person paid $10,000 for the entire treatment plan for one of his patients. He was desperate to graduate. I had a discussion with my interviewer about this and she confirmed that many other applicants from all over the nation had told her similar stories.

But the big advantage that Western University will have is a large untapped hispanic/ latino population. There will be plenty of crowns, root canals, fillings, dentures, etc to be done. But whether or not they can still afford dental treatment at a reduced fee is another story. From my own experience and several of my former classmates, hispanic/ latino patients are awesome. They are so grateful for even the simplest dental treatment you render. And because they are so grateful, the majority of them will always be on time for appointments and will come as many times as you need them to come. When I was in dental school, I cherished all of my hispanic/ latino patients because I could always count on them to show up to their appointments on time and never cancel on me at the last minute. Having a patient keep thier appointment times is essential to graduating on time. Unfortunately, I too had to fork out some cash to help pay for thier treatment. That's a hidden cost that every dental student will have to consider regardless of which school they are going to attend. But I certainly think that Western University has the patient pool to flourish. Anyhow, that's my honest opinion.
Click to expand...


That is complete BS! not in the untrue sense, but in the fact that it happened sense! if i have to shell out hundreds (not even thousands or TENS of thousand) to patients in order to graduate on time, then that is what i would call "being forced to pay for your patients work!" that's a bunch of crap. i will take this up with our dean at MWU for sure. it looks like there is no patient problem here, but i will make sure that i will never pay for patients' dental work. if garduating on time is being threatened then it's completely done under duress so it is the same as being forced with a gun to your head. (meatphorically) something has to be done to their clinic's fee schedule and collections and insurance billing. wow. why can't they just do the work for free (or just the cost of materials) in certain circumstances? it's not like the clinic HAS to turn a profit. this a tragic and distrubing situation that should be addressed at every school. wow i'm really agitated. i'm gonna go chill.
 
Oracle DMD said:
That is complete BS! not in the untrue sense, but in the fact that it happened sense! if i have to shell out hundreds (not even thousands or TENS of thousand) to patients in order to graduate on time, then that is what i would call "being forced to pay for your patients work!" that's a bunch of crap. i will take this up with our dean at MWU for sure. it looks like there is no patient problem here, but i will make sure that i will never pay for patients' dental work. if garduating on time is being threatened then it's completely done under duress so it is the same as being forced with a gun to your head. (meatphorically) something has to be done to their clinic's fee schedule and collections and insurance billing. wow. why can't they just do the work for free (or just the cost of materials) in certain circumstances? it's not like the clinic HAS to turn a profit. this a tragic and distrubing situation that should be addressed at every school. wow i'm really agitated. i'm gonna go chill.
Click to expand...

You took the words right outta my mouth. It's complete BS!!! The worse part is the tactic used by patients that Gryffindor mentioned where the patients know you're desperate to graduate and manipulates you into paying for thier dental treatment. This happens more often near graduation time when students have already been accepted to a specialty program and they are in a mad rush to get requirements done. Some of the veteran patients who have been going to my dental school for years were notorious for this tactic. Dental students are literally being blackmailed! But what can you do about it? My own school has tried but no crime has been committed. The patient didn't create the situation that the student is in. The patient, however, is for sure taking advantage of the situation. The worse they can do is kick the patient out of the school but that still doesn't get the dental student any closer to completing the graduation requirements.

In regards to your other point about doing the work for free...unfortunately, it's not possible for some schools. Labwork such as crowns, partial dentures, and dentures are subcontracted to an outside dental lab and unfortunately, THEY WANT TO MAKE A PROFIT!!! Most dental schools don't have an in-house dental lab. It's true that dental schools are usually not aiming to make a profit but they are indeed working on a budget. To absorb materials cost would affect the dental school's ability to pay for auxialliary staff such as people who work in the sterilization department. Dental materials is EXPENSIVE!!!
 
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OP: If your idea of competition for patients requires you to be more than 30 miles away from anyone else, good luck starting a practice.
 
Oracle DMD said:
That is complete BS! not in the untrue sense, but in the fact that it happened sense! if i have to shell out hundreds (not even thousands or TENS of thousand) to patients in order to graduate on time, then that is what i would call "being forced to pay for your patients work!" that's a bunch of crap. i will take this up with our dean at MWU for sure. it looks like there is no patient problem here, but i will make sure that i will never pay for patients' dental work. if garduating on time is being threatened then it's completely done under duress so it is the same as being forced with a gun to your head. (meatphorically) something has to be done to their clinic's fee schedule and collections and insurance billing. wow. why can't they just do the work for free (or just the cost of materials) in certain circumstances? it's not like the clinic HAS to turn a profit. this a tragic and distrubing situation that should be addressed at every school. wow i'm really agitated. i'm gonna go chill.
Click to expand...

Please do let us know what your dean says. It is interesting. I've really never heard of this before. I feel niave?!
 
Dentgirl09 said:
Please do let us know what your dean says. It is interesting. I've really never heard of this before. I feel niave?!
Click to expand...

Of course a pre-dent would be unlikely to hear of this. Which school is going to advertise "In addition to our excellent board pass rate and specialty placement stats, our students get to pay out of pocket for their patient's treatments to be privileged to graduate from our fine dental school!"
 
gryffindor said:
Of course a pre-dent would be unlikely to hear of this. Which school is going to advertise "In addition to our excellent board pass rate and specialty placement stats, our students get to pay out of pocket for their patient's treatments to be privileged to graduate from our fine dental school!"
Click to expand...

:laugh: LOL! You crack me up Gryffindor!
 
gryffindor said:
Of course a pre-dent would be unlikely to hear of this. Which school is going to advertise "In addition to our excellent board pass rate and specialty placement stats, our students get to pay out of pocket for their patient's treatments to be privileged to graduate from our fine dental school!"
Click to expand...


Wow, That just screams to the patient pool. "Come here, and we'll pay for your dentistry!" I think if Western centered its marketing strategy around that fact then there would be a problem with finding enough d-students to care for all the patients.
 
A dentist I shadowed for prior to coming to Undergrad told me that at the school he went to (about 20 years ago) he was near graduation and paid some people $50 to work on them as some patients then were also manipulating the dental students. I thought that was odd and a one time scenario but I'm shocked to see that it's gone up and so expensive! I do agree that something (I don't know what, I'm not in DS so I don't know what kind of rules/regulations are possible) should be done because I know that after putting out hundreds of thousands of dollars for my education I would prefer not to have to pay an extra hundred/thousand just to finish on time.
 
Ranelar said:
BTW, does UCLA have a problem bringing in patients? They're only 13 miles away and I haven't seen people complaining about it on these boards.
Click to expand...
Yes, there were problems finding patients when I was there ….and that was before UCLA had the international program. A lot of patients didn't like the fact that they had to pay $5 for parking (I wonder how much it is now?) for every dental visit. Like BlackTeeth, I also had to pay for a couple of procedures so I could graduate on time.

Western U is only a few miles from my office. Most of the patients in Pomona area have dentiCal. I know a lot of my referring GPs who charge lower fees than what USC and UCLA dental schools charge their patients. I think it is going to be tough for Western U to compete with these dentists…..and all of them take dentiCal. Western Dental, SmileCare Dental, Gentle Dental and Newport Dental are also a few miles away from Western University.
 
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mflinchb said:
A dentist I shadowed for prior to coming to Undergrad told me that at the school he went to (about 20 years ago) he was near graduation and paid some people $50 to work on them as some patients then were also manipulating the dental students. I thought that was odd and a one time scenario but I'm shocked to see that it's gone up and so expensive! I do agree that something (I don't know what, I'm not in DS so I don't know what kind of rules/regulations are possible) should be done because I know that after putting out hundreds of thousands of dollars for my education I would prefer not to have to pay an extra hundred/thousand just to finish on time.
Click to expand...

I paid my board exam (NERB) patients $50 for coming. Most of my patients were surprised to see the money. Most of my classmates paid or did something to thank/motivate the patients to show up because you straight up fail if your patient doesn't come that day and have to wait months before you can retake your exam. After I graduated, I heard the "rates" were much higher at other NERB schools - students at NYU paying $200 to ensure their patients showed up.

This was just for a regional board exam. Passing a regional board exam isn't a requirement to graduate dental school, it is a requirement to get a dental license from whatever state you are heading to for practice. What we're talking about on this thread here is paying your patients off to meet your requirements to graduate dental school. Personally, I did't pay for any of my patients' treatment to meet my requirements and knew of very few who made any kinds of financial arrangements with patients. But I have heard it happen at other schools with more regularity and I don't doubt it. When it is March and all that stands between you and the diploma in May is 3 crowns, and along comes a patient who needs 3 crowns but can only afford to pay for 1 right now... Well would you rather sit around and pay for an extra semester because you didn't meet your requirement and becaise you refuse to stoop to that level? No, you will stoop and fork over $1500 to the cashier and get this patient's crowns done, and then take your diploma and run.

And I would bet a lot of dental schools wouldn't hesitate to hold a student back if he doesn't get those 3 crowns done to meet the minimum crown requirment. So appealing for mercy from the school likely won't work unless your dad is the dean.
 
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