Madeleine Pickens plans to withdraw money donated to OkSU vet school

Hmmm.....wag the dog.

Unfortunatly, it happens with media all over the world...sensational sells better than balanced.

When I was in Australia a news service doctored a photo (just some very selective cropping) that made it appear that the Aus Military was letting illegal immigrants (boat people) drown, particularly children. It took several months for the doctoring to be ferretted out. Aussies were up in arms. The line I read in the media alot was that the States (USA) would consider this behavior barbaric. All I could think was that most Americans were likely clueless that any of this had occured, and even if they were aware, a good portion would agree with preventing illegal immigrants from landing using military or police forces (or that they would be directly arrested, which is what was actually happening.) This was post 9-11, but within a year of 9-11. My other thought was 'yeah, sure, that is why the US is trying to replicate China's fallacy of thinking a wall stops people.'

Just saying...yeah, it isn't good, but it seems to happen everywhere, and other that putting other information out, not sure much can be done about it.

I would think, if she really wanted to have an affect, she would have tried to instigate change using the funding as a catalyst (this money can only be used for a program that emulates X vet school and doesn't perform terminal surgeries) so it just seems like attention seeking, sensationalism, and a bit of vindictiveness.

I agree, I think the article wasn't as well-researched and well-written as it could have been. It would have been an interesting article had it been written differently. Regardless of my feelings about terminal surgeries, this definitely wouldn't sway my decision to attend OkSU or not.

But it is true that this happens all too often. I think it's great for the journalist to have a firm opinion about the subject they're covering, because it means they'll be more invested in researching the topic. But the journalist's opinion shouldn't be evident in the article.

My friend back home (one of the few people I still talk to from high school) is a journalist, and we've had many discussions on this very topic. I do understand that it's difficult not to put pieces of yourself into your writing, which is why I could never be a journalist. I'll stick with writing fiction on the side, thank you.

According to the article, she was going to donate the $5 million until a vet. student contacted her about the surgery labs. Wow. How would you like to be that student next time there's a big tuition hike?

The article is pretty rotten, but that was a dumb move on OK State's part to not offer a comment for the reporter on Sunday. The dean comes off as uncaring and uninterested, and it makes it look like what the article is saying is true. All he needed to say was, "No, those statements are false" and let the university answer more thoroughly today.

I highly doubt that IACUC would approve of multiple painful survival procedures being performed on the same animals.... I think that practice died out of vet schools years ago (although it took longer to die out of med schools).

StealthDog said:

The article is pretty rotten, but that was a dumb move on OK State's part to not offer a comment for the reporter on Sunday. The dean comes off as uncaring and uninterested, and it makes it look like what the article is saying is true. All he needed to say was, "No, those statements are false" and let the university answer more thoroughly today.

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OK State did not offer a comment according to the media which wrote this article. That does not mean they declined to comment, or did not try. One sided stories sell better than when both sides are published, unfortunately

Okay here are the facts:

#1 -- The Oklahoma State veterinary school has never received any money from Pickens. This $5 million was in a general fund that could possibly have been directed to the vet school. However, the vet school administration had heard no word and were under no impression that any of this money would be given to the vet school. This is not surprising, since Mrs. Pickens was already at odds with the vet school because the school will not make a statement in support or opposition to the horse slaughter ban.

#2 -- Our school obtains dogs from Class B dealers on moral and ethical grounds. Class A dogs are bred for research. Most Class B dogs are condemned to euthanasia animals obtained from shelters by the dealer and held by the dealer until there is a need for them. Under Oklahoma State law, our school has the right to obtain dogs directly from shelters, but our school does not engage in this because it would appear that the school is putting pressure on the shelters to give them dogs.

While it is necessary to have Class A dealers to supply dogs for other areas of scientific research, it amazes me that these animal rights groups are demonizing Class B dealers. They perform a needed service, while Class A dealers are breeding dogs to get experimented on and/or eventually die. When our school needs 30 cadavers for anatomy lab, it would be hard for the school to get 2 dogs from this shelter and 3 dogs from that shelter, pick them all up, and prepare them for lab. The Class B dealer does this for us. Both Class A and B dealers are regulated by the USDA and must follow the Animal Welfare Act. All animals must be documented and have a paper trail as to prevent the selling of stolen animals. By using Class B instead of Class A dealers, we are not providing additional support to the pet overpopulation problem, and the animals that would be euthanized anyway are saving the lives of future pets by allowing us to have experience before we graduate. And unfortunately many of these Class B dogs are unadoptable fighting pit bulls.

#4 -- Dean Lorenz did not comment on Sunday because he was halfway out the door on his way to Church. He did not comment on Monday because he is under the orders of the University. The university, in conjunction with the Dean, has now issued a statement refuting Mrs. Picken's claims in the most powder puff way possible. As students we all know this is not how Dean Lorenz would like to respond to the situation, but his hands are tied because the University does not want to tick off their almighty Sugar Daddy and Sugar Momma.

#3 -- This remove a kidney, wake up, break a leg stuff is 100% untrue. And not all surgeries are terminal, just the first series. There is a series of Shelter spay/neuters done later in the semester as well as a program sponsored by Hill's where these dogs are put up for adoption. A fellow classmate described junior surgery on newsok.com, so I'll quote him here because I won't have the class until this fall:

I would like to clarify what actually occurs in the course that we frequently refer to as “Junior Surgery.” This course is designed to allow veterinary students to experience real world conditions that an average veterinarian will see on a day to day basis in basic surgery. The dogs are purchased for the specific purpose of educating veterinary students. On the first day the dog is spayed or neutered and given significant pain medications so that they are pain free after waking up from anesthesia. This is often times more pain medication that the average veterinarian would give because we do not want these animals to be in pain. On the second day a surgery is done to open up the bladder and stomach, which is frequently done when pets have bladder stones or have eaten an object. The animal is never awoken on this second day and is humanly euthanized while under anesthesia. The animal feels no pain. I want to remind you how hard it is to go through this process is for every veterinary student, but 99% of students understand the need. The student that made the statement to Mrs. Pickens about removing kidneys and breaking legs was not telling the truth. This has never been done for educational purposes and would never be considered. This single student desire to end this course has not only damaged the veterinary hospitals pocket book, but also damaged an outstanding reputation. I just want to assure everyone that the acts that were described in this article are not true. OSU is a fantastic veterinary school and like almost all veterinarians we care for animals and would never do anything to be cruel or “barbaric” to any animal"
---Matt, Stillwater

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Capella, Thank you for clarifying the situation. Unfortunately it is this type of sensationalism that runs a muck with the general public who do not understand the extended caring process of live animals that are used for lack of a better word while one is in school. It seems to me that Mrs. Pickens had a vendetta for the school once it would not back her up for the slaughter ban, interesting.

Capella said:

Okay here are the facts:

#1 -- The Oklahoma State veterinary school has never received any money from Pickens. This $5 million was in a general fund that could possibly have been directed to the vet school. However, the vet school administration had heard no word and were under no impression that any of this money would be given to the vet school. This is not surprising, since Mrs. Pickens was already at odds with the vet school because the school will not make a statement in support or opposition to the horse slaughter ban.

#2 -- Our school obtains dogs from Class B dealers on moral and ethical grounds. Class A dogs are bred for research. Most Class B dogs are condemned to euthanasia animals obtained from shelters by the dealer and held by the dealer until there is a need for them. Under Oklahoma State law, our school has the right to obtain dogs directly from shelters, but our school does not engage in this because it would appear that the school is putting pressure on the shelters to give them dogs.

While it is necessary to have Class A dealers to supply dogs for other areas of scientific research, it amazes me that these animal rights groups are demonizing Class B dealers. They perform a needed service, while Class A dealers are breeding dogs to get experimented on and/or eventually die. When our school needs 30 cadavers for anatomy lab, it would be hard for the school to get 2 dogs from this shelter and 3 dogs from that shelter, pick them all up, and prepare them for lab. The Class B dealer does this for us. Both Class A and B dealers are regulated by the USDA and must follow the Animal Welfare Act. All animals must be documented and have a paper trail as to prevent the selling of stolen animals. By using Class B instead of Class A dealers, we are not providing additional support to the pet overpopulation problem, and the animals that would be euthanized anyway are saving the lives of future pets by allowing us to have experience before we graduate. And unfortunately many of these Class B dogs are unadoptable fighting pit bulls.

#4 -- Dean Lorenz did not comment on Sunday because he was halfway out the door on his way to Church. He did not comment on Monday because he is under the orders of the University. The university, in conjunction with the Dean, has now issued a statement refuting Mrs. Picken's claims in the most powder puff way possible. As students we all know this is not how Dean Lorenz would like to respond to the situation, but his hands are tied because the University does not want to tick off their almighty Sugar Daddy and Sugar Momma.

#3 -- This remove a kidney, wake up, break a leg stuff is 100% untrue. And not all surgeries are terminal, just the first series. There is a series of Shelter spay/neuters done later in the semester as well as a program sponsored by Hill's where these dogs are put up for adoption. A fellow classmate described junior surgery on newsok.com, so I'll quote him here because I won't have the class until this fall:

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Thank You for posting.

The deans response
"February 24, 2009
Dear Constituents of the OSU Center for Veterinary Health Sciences,
You may be unaware of a recently published article in the Daily O'Collegian which criticized some alleged teaching practices at the OSU veterinary center. As a graduate of our college and dean of the veterinary center, I want to correct the many false allegations contained in that article.
First, the gift that Madeleine Pickens gave to Oklahoma State University was undesignated and was never earmarked for the veterinary college. Therefore, there was no gift to be taken back by Madeleine Pickens as was stated in the article. Each and every gift that is proposed for the OSU Center for Veterinary Health Sciences is carefully reviewed to determine if the donor's stipulations fit with the mission of the veterinary college. In certain instances, some well intended gifts must be refused when they do not fit the mission or best interests of our academic programs.
Second, all veterinary colleges are under strict guidelines regarding the use of animals in teaching and research. At OSU, our animal facilities and protocols are regularly reviewed by the Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee (IACUC), the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), industrial partners, and the Council on Education of the American Veterinary Medical Association. Inspection reports are public information and are made available for outside review. Our academic programs have maintained full accreditation for the past 25 years. Our faculty regularly review curriculum content and practices, seeking always to provide the best available options for training veterinary students.
Third, our faculty believes that live animal surgery is essential for the training of competent and confident primary care veterinarians. All surgical protocols are reviewed annually by faculty and all are approved by the IACUC. Our animals are acquired from brokers who purchase dogs from animal shelters and other approved sources. These dogs are already marked for euthanasia by these shelters and we believe it is better to use existing animals that are scheduled for euthanasia than to use purpose bred dogs. Proper anesthesia and care are given to the animals throughout all procedures. No more than two surgeries are ever performed on any one animal, and of these, only one involves recovery from anesthesia. Students who desire not to perform surgical training on live animals are allowed to train on cadavers. This latter method, in our opinion, does not provide the level of training that live animal surgery will, but is allowed. The quote in the article that "bones are broken and organs such as kidneys are removed" is totally and unequivocally false. The only organs which are removed include the uterus and ovaries in females and testicles in males. Both procedures are basic for learning proper spay and neuter surgeries.
In closing, we are proud of the 3,165 competent, confident, practice-ready veterinarians who have graduated from this program and gone on to be some of the most successful veterinarians in the world. Our veterinary students are highly sought by employers upon graduation. It is common for these students to have many employment options when they graduate. As veterinarians, we take an oath to protect animal health, relieve animal suffering, conserve animal resources, promote public health and advance medical knowledge. We teach our veterinary students to practice conscientiously, with dignity and in keeping with the principles of veterinary medical ethics. It is a lifelong obligation to continually improve our professional knowledge and competence and we take this very seriously. Our faculty and staff work extremely hard to make our program one of the most successful in the country, even with the challenge of limited state financial support and resources and limited faculty numbers.
As our constituents, we assure you that we are conducting our teaching program with the most professional, ethical, compassionate, and humane standards possible. It is important that you continue to respect and value the mission of the OSU Center for Veterinary Health Sciences and we invite you to contact us with any questions or concerns you may have.
Sincerely,
Michael D. Lorenz, DVM, ACVIM
Professor and Dean"

Informative and well written....cudos to Dr. Lorenz and the OSU CVM....and no, my forum name "Pistol Pete" has nothing to do with the OSU mascot or program.

Pistol Pete said:

Informative and well written....cudos to Dr. Lorenz and the OSU CVM....and no, my forum name "Pistol Pete" has nothing to do with the OSU mascot or program.

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Does it have to do with Pete Maravich?

Truth74 said:

Does it have to do with Pete Maravich?

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Ahhhh...yes, we have a basketball fan in the houwwwse!

Why yes, yes I like basketball. College basketball. And he was the man. Still is.