Official 2009 ROL

Ill post mine after 9. I thought I'd just start the thread, just in case some eager folks wanted to share early 😛.

well here it goes.

1. UT Memphis
2. UT Southwestern
3. UAB
4. University of Pittsburg
5. Louisville
And some stragglers....

The wait begins...

1. Allegheny General Hospital
2. St. Luke's - Roosevelt
3. Ohio State University
4. East Carolina University
5. UMDNJ-Cooper
6. Monmouth Medical Center
7. St. Luke's Bethlehem
8. University of Illinois - Chicago
9. Wright State University
10. Carilion Clinic
11. St. Vincent's Medical Center (NY)
12. Lankenau Hospital
13. North Shore-LIJ

Did not rank: Westchester Medical Center

I hope more people post, I know I looked to past years ranks as informative. I was doing the couples match and so I just listed these programs in order as they first showed up on my eventually 100+ rank list.

1 BID
2 Columbia
3 Cornell
4 Boston Univ
5 Mt Sinai
6 Cedars-Sinai
7 Yale
8 Temple
9 Thomas Jefferson
10 Northwestern
11 SUNY HSC Brooklyn
12 Einstein/Montefiore
13 Pittsburgh
14 Brown
15 U Illinois COM-Chicago
16 Drexel
17 UMDNJ- Cooper
18 Albert Einstein Med Ctr-PA
19 Lenox Hill

GOOD LUCK everybody!! 22 days and counting!

Good luck everyone, 3 more weeks....
1. Eastern VA
2. Carolinas Medical Center
3. East Carolina University
4. UNC
5. Emory
6. VCU
7. University of Maryland
8. Hershey Penn State
See you on Match Day!

.

nothing else to do about it...

1. U Washington
2. Northwestern
3. UC Davis
4. UNC
5. Emory
6. Brown
7. Colorado
8. UCSD
9. Baylor
10. Cincinnati
11. Arizona
12. Michigan

In the end I had to argue it out with a friend of mine over a dry-erase board.

Good luck everyone!

deleting previous post

1. Brigham
2. MGH
3. Cornell
4. Penn
5. Michigan
6. U Chicago
7. Wash U
8. Emory
9. Northwestern
10. BIDMC
11. Yale
12. Pittsburgh

Good luck everyone!!

KJS

1. NYMC-Westchester
2. Abington Memorial
3. INOVA-Fairfax
4. VCU/MCV
5. Atlanta Medical Ctr
6. Brookdale Hospital
7. Geisinger
8. Sound Shore Med Ctr
Not ranked: Univ of Toledo

1. University of New Mexico
2. Geisinger Health System
3. Allegheny General
4. Wright State University
5. New Hanover Regional Med Center
6. Mount Carmel
7. Fairview Cleveland
8. Texas Tech- El Paso
9. Akron General
10. Carilion Clinic
11. St. Elizabeth's/NEOUCOM
12. INOVA Fairfax
13. Penn State/Hershey Med
.....

Ok I'll play too:

1. UMass
2. Yale
3. PSU
4. URochester
5. VCU
6. Jefferson
7. UVM
8. ECU
9. UKY
10. SUNY SB
11. EVMS

Didn't rank:

SUNY Syracuse
Stamford
Christiana Care

so many views, so few lists. this thread belongs to those of us with courage (yeah right what does it hurt at this point?)

we should add a new wrinkle, briefly justify your number 1

Why Memphis #1......

I really enjoyed the residents (great turnout at night before dinner) and the Chair and PD. Fabian is a big name in trauma, and I am interested in trauma. Large amount of ICU exposure, begins intern year. They have a burn center and a nutrition rotation. The residents rotate at 5-6 hospitals. Seems like the residents get a good bit of autonomy. Program also has a good mix of private practice vs fellowships post residency.

Major drawback: Memphis, Ranked number 2 most miserable city to live in this year.

1. USC- This program is a bit of an up-and-comer but it just felt right
2. UC Irvine- great location for me, solid overall
3. UC Davis- my favorite program but not my fav location
4. UT Southwestern- awesome training but brutal texas summers
5. Jackson Memorial- I liked this place quite a bit but far from home
6. Huntington Hospital- educational experience seems lacking but the draw of the LA location and cush lifestyle put it here
7. Beth Isreal Manhattan- good community program, great location
8. Metro Group Hospitals Chicago- decent place but Chicago is too cold
9. Methodist Hospital Houston- nice hospital, cush but got the sense that teaching residents is not a strong priority
10. St Vincent's Manhattan- hated this place, awful interview experience but matching here would still be better than scrambling
11. St Louis U- really a decent program but Stl isn't the place for me

I ranked 15, and I'd probably be pretty happy at the first 11 or so. The others are still better than scrambling.

Top 5:

1.Colorado- This is a very strong program, with great variety, reasonable resident autonomy, good case numbers, and it is in the perfect location. The opportunity to work with Dr. Moore is just a bonus 😉.
2.Carolinas Medical Center- I just really liked this place. The minimally invasive program is exceptional. I suspect that the training is top rate, and the program itself is sort of hidden academic gem. Charlotte is so-so.
3.Exempla St. Joseph Hospital (Denver)- It's got location, great operative exposure with a lot of early OR time, a more laid back approach to teaching, and excellent broad general surgery training. The drawbacks are probably a deficiency of trauma exposure and a little bit less autonomy in and out of the OR than my top 2.
4.Jackson Memorial Hospital (Miami)- A LOT of autonomy, good case numbers and variety, I already know everyone, my family is here, and it produces very high quality chiefs. The drawbacks are probably Miami traffic and cost-of living. The hospital itself can also be a bit difficult at times (understatement).
5.Christiana Care (Delaware)- I suspect that this is also a hidden gem. People seemed happy there, they had exceptional case numbers, and I really got along well with all of the residents. The drawbacks are probably Delaware, somewhat less autonomy than my top choices, and the fact that the place was a little bit less than forthcoming with some information that I needed.

That's enough writing. I'd really be thrilled to go to any of these 5, and I changed my list 100 times before finally arriving at this order.

lets play the game....

#1: The U of New Mexico. I did a visiting trauma subi here and loved it. I worked REALLY hard, UNM is the only level 1 in the state and also pulls trauma from southern Colorado, limited areas of Texas, and the Indian reservations in eastern Arizona, so the pager was always going off. Despite that I had a great time. The residents work extremely well together, and are willing to go the extra mile or pitch in for another at any time; whatever gets the job done. The faculty is great about teaching and shows concern for the residents as people. Dr. Demerest in the trauma department is a big-name, and I know that I got a lot of interviews I wouldn't have normally because he wrote me a letter. The only fellowship is CT, so the residents get cases in whatever they want, and they get great fellowships as well. I would be ecstatic to match here.

#2. Geisinger Medical Center: Never heard of Geisinger? I'm not suprised, if you weren't from Pennsylvania you probably haven't. However, they are one of four quaternary referral hospitals in the state (the others being UPenn, UPMC, and Penn State/Hershey) and can be thought of as a mini-Cleveland Clinic for PA. The hospital is beautiful and features great docs in all specialties, and surgeons in all disciplines and is surprisingly the only hospital on my entire match list besides UNM that has Peds and Burns in-house. I really liked the new program director (the predecessor retired) Dr. Caushaj and think that he will be a great driving force to bring this residency program to the next level. Bench research is available here which might surprise some. For many people the location in Danville, PA would be a drawback but it is an advantage for me. I grew up in a small town in PA so I feel like I'm coming home. You can own a beautiful house for dirt cheap, are an hour and half by car away from New York, and are surrounded by the forest and outdoor activities. I consider this program a second number one on my list.

#3. Allegheny General in Pittsburgh, PA is filled with faculty who went to UPMC, Harvard, and other big name institutions but doesn't have the onerous research requirements of UPMC, Harvard, etc. Great location in Pittsburgh, and cutting edge procedures are used and taught; but it is probably the most "malignant" program on my list (but isn't all that bad really).

#4. Wright State University: located in Dayton, OH, their main hospital is Miami Valley which is the busiest hospital in OH for Trauma. Part of me wants to do general rural surgery, so good trauma training is essential. I did a subi within the program at Good Sam in northern Dayton, and enjoyed my time. One of my favorite attendings and a letter writer is a graduate of this program which speaks highly for the quality of surgeon, and human beings, they produce.

#5. New Hanover Regional Medical Center: located in Wilmington, NC has a great location and fantastic "community program" surgery training. They have a great group of residents that make you feel at home when you first walk through the door. You will operate early and often, and for some rotations will go to UNC. It turns out Dawson's Creek was filmed here in Wilmington, which ridiculously excited the other person interviewing with me that day (they only interview two candidates max per day).

I think you have some incorrect information based on your reply below...

Bill_Brasky said:

lets play the game....

#2. Geisinger Medical Center: Never heard of Geisinger? I'm not suprised, if you weren't from Pennsylvania you probably haven't. However, they are one of three quaternary referral hospitals in the state (the others being UPenn, and UPMC, with Penn State/Hershey almost there as well) and can be thought of as a mini-Cleveland Clinic for PA.

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Hershey is a quartenary hospital as well as the others and gets plenty of in and out of state referrals (mostly from northern Maryland and West Virginia as we are closer than Hopkins and Shock Trauma for those patients). Patients do not bypass Hershey to get sent to Geisinger unless we have no room; we have transferred patients to Geisinger but only because of lack of beds. And Geisinger has transferred patients to us, so I suspect that there isn't a real difference here.

The hospital is beautiful and features great docs in all specialties, and surgeons in all disciplines and is surprisingly the only hospital on my entire match list that has Peds and Transplant in house.

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Again, not sure where you got that idea. Hershey has several Pediatric and Transplant surgeons on staff and all peds and transplant surgery is done in house at the main hospital. The peds surgery service is one of the most active, with THE most added on cases of any surgical specialty (largely due to peds trauma and kids sticking things in certain orifices which have to be fished out under anesthesia. We also have a huge contingent of congenital anomalies which need to be operated on due to the consanguineous population in the area.). Same for transplant - true its mostly kidneys and livers but that's the case for more places (although in PA, Pitt is obviously going to give you more volume because of Starzl).

You aren't sent elsewhere for those rotations. The only thing you are sent out for is Burns (to LeHigh Valley).

I'm not arguing with your list because it seems well thought out but wanted to correct some inaccurate things you posted.

Winged Scapula said:

Hershey is a quartenary hospital as well as the others and gets plenty of in and out of state referrals (mostly from northern Maryland and West Virginia as we are closer than Hopkins and Shock Trauma for those patients). Patients do not bypass Hershey to get sent to Geisinger unless we have no room; we have transferred patients to Geisinger but only because of lack of beds. And Geisinger has transferred patients to us, so I suspect that there isn't a real difference here.

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Cool. PSU is going to be one of the best places in the east coast before too long. I really liked the people I met at during my interview, but was thrown off by the seven year requirement after thinking it was a five year program. Out of the people interviewing with me that day I think only half knew it was 7. Looking back at SDN I think the info was available here but I missed it. If I wanted to be an academic surgeon this would easily be my number one. I kinda wish I knew you were there, I would have liked to have said a brief hello.

Winged Scapula said:

Again, not sure where you got that idea. Hershey has several Pediatric and Transplant surgeons on staff and all peds and transplant surgery is done in house at the main hospital. The peds surgery service is one of the most active, with THE most added on cases of any surgical specialty (largely due to peds trauma and kids sticking things in certain orifices which have to be fished out under anesthesia. We also have a huge contingent of congenital anomalies which need to be operated on due to the consanguineous population in the area.). Same for transplant - true its mostly kidneys and livers but that's the case for more places (although in PA, Pitt is obviously going to give you more volume because of Starzl).

You aren't sent elsewhere for those rotations. The only thing you are sent out for is Burns (to LeHigh Valley).

I'm not arguing with your list because it seems well thought out but wanted to correct some inaccurate things you posted.

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You are right of course, I meant Peds and Burns. Also, at the consanguinity.

Bill_Brasky said:

Cool. PSU is going to be one of the best places in the east coast before too long. I really liked the people I met at during my interview, but was thrown off by the seven year requirement after thinking it was a five year program. Out of the people interviewing with me that day I think only half knew it was 7.

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Again, you have been misinformed. Hershey is NOT a mandatory 7 years. The extra lab years are encouraged, but you are not forced to do it. Many people do only 5 (and I checked this this afternoon after reading your post in case something had changed).

Looking back at SDN I think the info was available here but I missed it.

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You missed it because if it was ever posted here, it was incorrect. Hershey has never been a mandatory 7 years of surgical residency. The vast majority of graduates do fellowships and it is true that most residents spend time in the lab, with very few going straight into general surgery, but research is not required.

I kinda wish I knew you were there, I would have liked to have said a brief hello.

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I did my residency there, left for fellowship and am no longer there.

Winged Scapula said:

Again, you have been misinformed. Hershey is NOT a mandatory 7 years. The extra lab years are encouraged, but you are not forced to do it. Many people do only 5 (and I checked this this afternoon after reading your post in case something had changed).

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All I can say is that when I interviewed there Dr. Shope told us "if you match with us plan to be here for seven years." That is an exact quote. It didn't sound like encouragement at all the way they presented it to us. It was presented as a requirement but "accommodations might be able to be made if you don't want to do research years." The "might" was added in because they said to us that they are applying for more residents currently but aren't sure exactly how they are going to schedule everyone when they get them. I know their website and everything says five years, but when I was there, me and everyone else came away with the exact same impression: that it was a seven year program.

Anyone else who interviewed there care to chime in?

Bill_Brasky said:

All I can say is that when I interviewed there Dr. Shope told us "if you match with us plan to be here for seven years." That is an exact quote. It didn't sound like encouragement at all the way they presented it to us. It was presented as a requirement but "accommodations might be able to be made if you don't want to do research years." The "might" was added in because they said to us that they are applying for more residents currently but aren't sure exactly how they are going to schedule everyone when they get them. I know their website and everything says five years, but when I was there, me and everyone else came away with the exact same impression: that it was a seven year program.

Anyone else who interviewed there care to chime in?

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I've left a message for Dr. Shope.

When I was there they told us the same things:

1) that research was encouraged and that everyone did it, but I know no one that was forced into the lab when they didn't want to do it.

2) that they were applying for more residents (largely because we had trouble keeping the work hours down once the rules came down the pike).

In your earlier message you said only about half of the interviewees thought it was a 7 year program, so obviously the message wasn't as emphatic as you may have interpreted it.

I trust Dr. Shope (having known him since he was a fellow; he is an excellent choice for PD) so I will believe what he tells me but it sounds like, to me, the message was taken too literally. Many residents enjoy their time in the lab because they have normal hours, can moonlight and essentially have a great life; you don't have to go into academics if you don't want to, but again, the vast majority of residents do. I will update when he gets back to me.

When I interviewed at Penn State this year, they also told me they were changing to a mandatory 7 year program with the 2 year research requirement.

Also, I don't know if this is true or not...but some other interviewees I saw later along the trail told me they received a letter stating Dr. Shope was no longer Program Director. But that is just heresay, since I never received one of those letters.

I have to concur with Brasky on this one. I distinctly remember Shope saying the same thing. Chirurigus, I got one of those letters. Dillon (sic) took over as PD. ALLEGEDLY it was a work hours related thing. I don't know of any specifics.

Interesting. Thanks for the update guys.

I cannot say I'm suprised that they are still considering hiring more residents or going to a 7 year program (as that would mean they could pull from a larger group of residents for the call schedules - which would of course mean that lab residents would not longer be "protected") if they are indeed still having work hour troubles. There has never been enough mid-level help or reduction in work at a very busy program (with a lot of old school attendings who don't see the need to change), so it was hard to keep the work hours down.

Addendum: I heard from Dr. Shope and he verified that yes, Hershey has gone to a mandatory 7 year program. Mostly a manpower issue as when you had some going into the lab, and others not, it made it difficult to get residents a clinical position when they came out, etc. He also verified that he is no longer program director which is a REAL SHAME IMHO.

So, apologies for not being up to date, sounds like there has been a lot of changes there.

Here we go....

7 Invites, went on 7, ranked 5............thought I would get more, but oh well.

1. St. Luke's Bethlehem - Loved the program from the get-to-gether the night before, all the way through my interview day and on the second visit. The camaraderie was excellent among the residents and attendings, facilities were pretty nice (older hospital, but some impressive areas), great trauma...70/30 blunt/penetrating is what i was told (which is what i'm interested in), residents go on to some excellent fellowships (at least one has gone on to every subspecialty if i'm not mistaken, except peds), only 2 residents per year (they are petitioning for 3), which was one of my deciding factors b/w #1,2,3. I liked the smaller programs for some reason. Dr. Hoey really impressed me with what he had to say, but I also liked the way he handled himself, especially compared to other program directors I ran into throughout the interview season. I also liked the surrounding area....a lot. Both myself and my fiance are looking for an area that St. Luke's offered...so that was also exciting. Benefits are excellent, including pay/year, bonuses and moonlighting. Although they work you hard (q3 right now), they also treat you like a human beings from what i understand. Residents get to do a good amount of operating from day 1, residents have help from PAs with the floor work, attendings are very accessible to residents at all times. I think thats most of it, although Im sure I left something out.

2. Medical College of Wisconsin - This was the toughest decision to put this second. It really came down to size of program and the feeling I got when I was at St. Luke's, verses here. I loved this program as well.......i'm still kinda confused. I would be truly happy with either!

3. U of Illinois, Chicago - Although I'm from Chicago, I need to get out of that city!!! I really just don't want city living at this point. However, if I ended up there......I would still end up being happy once I got over the living situation. Overall felt like a pretty strong academic program, with good affiliations. But also a bigger program, like MCW.

4. St. Joseph Mercy Oakland, MI - not much to say. It was alright. Ill find a way to be happy if I end up there.....

5. Providence Hospital, MI - See number 4


Didn't rank Spartanburg Regional Healthcare System or Huron Hospital/CCF.


Good Luck everyone.....👍........13 days!!!

23 inv, 15 interviews, ranked 10 programs

1. MGH
2. BW
3. Dartmouth
4. UTSW
5. Mayo
6. University of Arkansas
7. University of Miami/Jackson Memorial
8. University of Oklahoma, OKC
9. UIC
10. New York Methodist Hospital

not ranked: UI-MGH, University Hospital (Cin, OH)