Thoughts on the application process. A true underdog story.

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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smalltowngeek

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I just wanted to share my journey to medical school to provide some hope to those in a similar situation.

I wasn’t one of those fortunate ones born with a stethoscope in hand, nor did I have some life altering experience where I witnessed some horrific accident. I was always just a normal, unremarkable kid with an aptitude for learning. I ended up graduating high school with decent grades and ambitions to get through college as soon as I could and become an engineer. I quickly realized that wasn’t for me and I set out on a journey through college trying to find what the heck it was I wanted.

I discovered medicine by learning a great deal about myself, what it was that brought me joy, and what was important to me in life. I also gathered a great deal of experience that helped me realize how I didn’t want to live my life (anyone who has ever worked retail for a large corporation will know what I am talking about here). Before I thought of medicine, I found out I was fascinated by biology, then I realized medicine would be a great way to combine that newfound love with my quirky personality to work with people. So I got all the experience I could in medicine and set out to apply.

I took the MCAT last July and scored ok: 30. I submitted my AMCAS in mid August and had it verified in mid September. That is when I saw my abysmal AMCAS GPA: 3.2… ugh! No matter how good of an upward trend I had, that was going to be difficult for admissions committees to look past. It was really a bummer given I live in a state with no medical school

I applied anyway, hoping that if I presented myself honestly and clearly demonstrated my motivations based on my experiences in medicine, I could maybe get one or two interviews where I could put my likable nature to work and wrestle out an acceptance. I spent September and October filling out secondaries, putting a great deal of thought into each of my essays. The rejections quickly followed. By February, I had one interview at my top choice (a top 10 school), then another at my second choice, rejections (silent or otherwise) everywhere else.

I ended up getting accepted from my top choice and have yet to hear from the other school, but it doesn’t matter anyway. I know where I am going.

I just wanted to share this to say that one bad number cannot completely tank your application. Ideally, you will have stellar numbers (and that is always better), but life is rarely ideal. Do not discount the importance of performing well academically, but realize that presenting yourself honestly and being able to articulate your motivations for medicine in a clear way are also important. Taking responsibility and not blaming “the system” is the best thing you can do. This will put you in a position to address your faults and find ways to convince people to look past your mistakes and focus on the person you’ve become. If your entire application (i.e. grade trends, personal statements, LOR’s) is consistent with your story, someone will look into it and maybe find the person you want them to see. Just realize it is going to take a great deal of work to become the exception to the rule. A little luck is probably helpful too. 😀
 
I like your authenticity. Partly because I share a lot of what you talk about:

- Engineer
- Avg Student
- 30 MCAT from July
- Never lived a life centered on medicine
- Just a handful of interviews
- Got to my top choice

I must say I agree that if you aren't a god-tier or top-tier applicant, being your best self and putting yourself out there will be your ace. The process has taught me a lot, perhaps lessons I would not learn otherwise.
 
honestly, people like yourself allow me to close this website and remain determined.

Thank you. Good luck to you! Awesome story!
 
So you managed to get into a top 10 school with a 3.2 GPA and a 30 MCAT? If so, that gives me great hope.

I'm an average student (although I think I'm above average in intelligence). I have no doctors in my family of any sort (most of my relatives came from poor upbringings, and most didn't even go to college). I have no unnaturally interesting, life-altering stories to tell of. Hopefully fate shines on me as it has you.
 
BigD311 said:
honestly, people like yourself allow me to close this website and remain determined.

Thank you. Good luck to you! Awesome story!
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smalltowngeek said:
Taking responsibility and not blaming "the system" is the best thing you can do. This will put you in a position to address your faults and find ways to convince people to look past your mistakes and focus on the person you've become. If your entire application (i.e. grade trends, personal statements, LOR's) is consistent with your story, someone will look into it and maybe find the person you want them to see. Just realize it is going to take a great deal of work to become the exception to the rule. A little luck is probably helpful too. 😀
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Yes, that's precisely the type of attitude that reflects well on your personality and maturity: not blaming others or "the system" for what happened. Personally, I'd chose you to be my physician over someone who had 40 and 4.0 but who couldn't wrap his head around why he/she didn't get accepted to a top 10 medical school.

I've seen too many threads posted by people going on about how unforgiving medical schools are with GPA and MCAT and how they don't get a break because they had a personal crisis and how it's the AAMC's and adcoms fault that they didn't get in. It's too easy to loose sense of perspectives and adopt that "it's all about me" attitude. For every qualified candidate who didn't get a deserving spot in a medical school, there must be at least 10 qualified individuals who did get in deservingly. The only problem is that we don't hear those deserving applicants voice their opinions about what got them in. In this case, you clearly had the personality and qualities that the school was looking for, and I'm not surprised at all that you got what you deserved.
 
ChairmanMao said:
Yes, that's precisely the type of attitude that reflects well on your personality and maturity: not blaming others or "the system" for what happened. Personally, I'd chose you to be my physician over someone who had 40 and 4.0 but who couldn't wrap his head around why he/she didn't get accepted to a top 10 medical school.

I've seen too many threads posted by people going on about how unforgiving medical schools are with GPA and MCAT and how they don't get a break because they had a personal crisis and how it's the AAMC's and adcoms fault that they didn't get in. It's too easy to loose sense of perspectives and adopt that "it's all about me" attitude. For every qualified candidate who didn't get a deserving spot in a medical school, there must be at least 10 qualified individuals who did get in deservingly. The only problem is that we don't hear those deserving applicants voice their opinions about what got them in. In this case, you clearly had the personality and qualities that the school was looking for, and I'm not surprised at all that you got what you deserved.
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Perhaps my thesis so-to-speak would be: "Attitude is everything."

I used to have a shirt that said that^ when I was little and I never knew what it meant then, but I guess it stuck somehow.

Funny the things we remember from our childhood. I forgot about that shirt until just now. It even had Garfield on it... the cat, not the president. Garfield rocks. Now I'm hungry for lasagna.
 
Congratulations on your acceptance; you must have been a perfect fit for the your top school, and the admissions officers saw that. :xf: Plus a 3.2 is pretty good for an engineering major (depending on where you come from, I suppose.)
 
ChairmanMao said:
Personally, I'd chose you to be my physician over someone who had 40 and 4.0 but who couldn't wrap his head around why he/she didn't get accepted to a top 10 medical school.
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Then again, it's very unlikely that you're going to have this kind of information to go by when actually choosing a doctor. If you go with Kaiser Permanente like me and many other people, all you get to choose a doctor is the school they went to and their photos and a short autobiography (seriously, that's how we're supposed to choose our primary doctor). Unfortunately, that's how the healthcare system works for many people. :lame:
 
Argentium said:
a 3.2 is pretty good for an engineering major (depending on where you come from, I suppose.)
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My bad. Just to clarify my original post: I was only an engineering major for my first year of school. Then I switched a whole bunch of times until I landed in Bio. My Degree is in Bio and I will enter med school the fall after i graduate. I haven't had a prior career. Sorry, I didn't say all that since my post was already super long.
 
Congratulations! Very happy to hear you got into your top choice!
 
vin5cent0 said:
So you managed to get into a top 10 school with a 3.2 GPA and a 30 MCAT? If so, that gives me great hope.

I'm an average student (although I think I'm above average in intelligence). I have no doctors in my family of any sort (most of my relatives came from poor upbringings, and most didn't even go to college). I have no unnaturally interesting, life-altering stories to tell of. Hopefully fate shines on me as it has you.
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Why does everyone think that having doctors in your family helps you when you apply? I feel like if I were on an adcom the only thing that might indicate to me is to make sure these applicants are genuine in their interest for medicine and aren't pushed into it by parents.
 
But on the flip side, its anecdotes like this that will get a lot of applicants into trouble.

Great story for you though!
 
OP you definitely deserve commendation for your acceptance to a top school with those numbers. Of course you realize many of us now are drooling and would like more information, such as your ECs, a gist of your personal statement, URM status and the like. As much as its nice to see someone with lower numbers being accepted to such a school (i have bad numbers too and can only hope).
 
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Lukkie said:
OP you definitely deserve commendation for your acceptance to a top school with those numbers. Of course you realize many of us now are drooling and would like more information, such as your ECs, a gist of your personal statement, URM status and the like. As much as its nice to see someone with lower numbers being accepted to such a school (i have bad numbers too and can only hope).
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Happy to oblige... My EC's were pretty average for SDNers. I worked in a hospital, I volunteered, was a TA, research, did A LOT of shadowing, etc. Nothing too out of the ordinary. Regarding many of my EC's I stuck with the same thing for a long period of time. For example, I was an TA for the same prof for 2.5 years, researched in the same lab for over 2 years, and I shadowed the same few physicians for about 2 years. I was able to get letters from all of these experiences, and these letters corroborated my personal statement about personal growth.

I spent about 6 months on my PS, having multiple reviewers (who knew me well) critique it. I probably went through 3 complete revisions and about 20 drafts of my final PS. I made sure it presented me honestly, explained my journey, and substantiated my motivations.

My advice to folks in a similar situation is to make sure you have a consistent application. For example, I wrote in my PS about personal growth, my grades showed positive trends that were evidence of my increased interest, my LOR writers knew me very well and were able to talk about my growth, and I made sure I tied my interests together with my experiences. All of this, I think, helped present me in a very positive light.

Another thought. If I had to do it all over again, I would try to be more intelligent about the schools to which I applied. I made some good decisions (as evidenced by my acceptance), but I also was very foolish with some of the schools I applied to. I tried to play the numbers too much. Do a great deal of research into the schools you want to apply. Find places that have a mission consistent with your own, and speak to this in your essays. Also, try to isolate schools that are known for looking past the numbers. I feel like I could have had a few more interviews had I been more careful with the schools I chose.

Furthermore, as was alluded to above, FIT plays a huge role. The schools I ended up getting interviews from were a great fit for me, I knew it and I made sure to accentuate this (without being annoying) in my essays. This, I think, may have been the key to my success.

Lastly, realize that if you get an interview, you cannot squander the opportunity. Unfortunately, interview skills are sort of innate, but make sure you are prepared and DON'T leave anything in the interview room. Lay it all out there.

Good luck!
 
Also, I am a white male and the first in both sides of my family to graduate college.
 
This thread just makes me feel worse about getting pwned last app cycle.

BUT it also gives me hope for next year. This is an excellent example of a coherent theme throughout an app (from primary all the way through interviews) that wins the day. I've heard this advice from several people and it's worked every time. It's easier said than done, though 😉
 
Congrats on the acceptance. If possible, could you elaborate more on your app since I think that would be most useful for others, such as the school you were accepted to, your state of residency, economically disadvantaged, etc?
 
koko_eats said:
This thread just makes me feel worse about getting pwned last app cycle.

BUT it also gives me hope for next year. This is an excellent example of a coherent theme throughout an app (from primary all the way through interviews) that wins the day. I've heard this advice from several people and it's worked every time. It's easier said than done, though 😉
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Damn koko I just read your MD apps and you applied to like 500 schools...wow. Hey at least you wrote have to start from scratch for next cycle's secondaries right? 😀
 
Very inspirational story, OP. I wish you much success.
 
Red Leader said:
Damn koko I just read your MD apps and you applied to like 500 schools...wow. Hey at least you wrote have to start from scratch for next cycle's secondaries right? 😀
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That's the idea! Then again, all I know is what not to write in secondaries at this point.
 
Ehh, maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, but I smell a troll...OP has a very odd post history, too...

Regardless, anybody who draws inspiration from this kind of a post is foolish.
 
flip26 said:
Ehh, maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, but I smell a troll...OP has a very odd post history, too...

Regardless, anybody who draws inspiration from this kind of a post is foolish.
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Anyone who would take the time to read the post and critizice someone's FREE WILL TO GET WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT OUT OF THE DAMN POST as foolish, is also foolish and quite the douche. Give the OP a break face it, there are people who are damn good at selling themselves, and I hate to break it to you but chances are there are more 3.2/30's than you may care to realize that attend "elite schools". So how about we get back to bed and try again.

OP, Congrats on your acceptance, obviously the stars aligned and you did what you had to do to get what you wanted. But I will say that you are certainly an anomaly and people should be wary of the fact that while it certainly happens more than people like to think, it is not an overwhelming trend. You probably have determination to boot, personality out the whooha, and pulitzer prize winning letters of recommendation. While stories like yours are refreshing, there is an inherent caveat to applicants who may have similar stats being that they may not possess those attributes that aided you in being succesful. Again I am not knocking your accomplishment, I think it's tremendous and I myself felt somewhat inspired but again I may or may not possess what helped you be successful. I think this is what the tool above me was trying to say but with unecessary snarkiness. Good luck next fall!
 
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batman1983 said:
Congrats on the acceptance. If possible, could you elaborate more on your app since I think that would be most useful for others, such as the school you were accepted to, your state of residency, economically disadvantaged, etc?
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The reason I have only elaborated slightly is that, if I go into the minutiae, it will detract from what I am trying to say.

Contrary to popular belief, adcoms don't have the perfect applicant blueprint stored secretly in a vault in the basement. That's because there is no one blueprint that will work for everybody. You need to be doing EC's that you like to do, don't just do things because you think it will get you in. Spend some time finding a few quality activities that you truly enjoy. That way, when application time rolls around, you can inject that passion into your essays. Also when you interview, your interviewer will see your enthusiasm. So if I sit here and list off everything I did, and you go do it just because you think it may help, what are you learning from that? And will it help you? No. Because it means nothing to you personally. This is good advice for applicants that even have stellar stats.

I can't emphasize this enough... How you put your app together dictates how the admissions crew will perceive you. Build a coherent application filled with activities that are of personal value to you.

THat was the point of my original post. Not just to provide some hope and inspiration to you statistically average to below average lurkers out there, but to give you some tips that aren't often advocated on this site. Do what you enjoy when it comes to EC's. Obviously you need a good amount of clinical exposure, but again, get it in a way that will be enjoyable to you. You will learn so much more about yourself and really have some substance to inject into your essays and interviews. Again, this is good advice for all applicants.
 
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NCDocWannabe said:
Anyone who would take the time to read the post and critizice someone's FREE WILL TO GET WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT OUT OF THE DAMN POST as foolish, is also foolish and quite the douche. Give the OP a break face it, there are people who are damn good at selling themselves, and I hate to break it to you but chances are there are more 3.2/30's than you may care to realize that attend "elite schools". So how about we get back to bed and try again.

OP, Congrats on your acceptance, obviously the stars aligned and you did what you had to do to get what you wanted. But I will say that you are certainly an anomaly and people should be wary of the fact that while it certainly happens more than people like to think, it is not an overwhelming trend. You probably have determination to boot, personality out the whooha, and pulitzer prize winning letters of recommendation. While stories like yours are refreshing, there is an inherent caveat to applicants who may have similar stats being that they may not possess those attributes that aided you in being succesful. Again I am not knocking your accomplishment, I think it's tremendous and I myself felt somewhat inspired but again I may or may not possess what helped you be successful. I think this is what the tool above me was trying to say but with unecessary snarkiness. Good luck next fall!
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So you call me a douche, and then you express pretty much the same sentiment I expressed RE the limits of the "inspiration" that can be drawn from the OP's post?

Don't be so gullible about every inspirational underdog post you read on SDN. Some of them are undoubtedly true, some of them are embellished, and some of them are leaving out some critical element that might better explain the achievement the poster is reporting.

And then some of them are just total bull****.
 
smalltowngeek said:
The reason I have only elaborated slightly is that, if I go into the minutiae, it will detract from what I am trying to say.
Contrary to popular belief, adcoms don't have the perfect applicant blueprint stored secretly in a vault in the basement. That's because there is no one blueprint that will work for everybody. You need to be doing EC's that you like to do, don't just do things because you think it will get you in. Spend some time finding a few quality activities that you truly enjoy. That way, when application time rolls around, you can inject that passion into your essays. Also when you interview, your interviewer will see your enthusiasm. So if I sit here and list off everything I did, and you go do it just because you think it may help, what are you learning from that? And will it help you? No. Because it means nothing to you personally. This is good advice for applicants that even have stellar stats.

I can't emphasize this enough... How you put your app together dictates how the admissions crew will perceive you. Build a coherent application filled with activities that are of personal value to you.

THat was the point of my original post. Not just to provide some hope and inspiration to you statistically average to below average lurkers out there, but to give you some tips that aren't often advocated on this site. Do what you enjoy when it comes to EC's. Obviously you need a good amount of clinical exposure, but again, get it in a way that will be enjoyable to you. You will learn so much more about yourself and really have some substance to inject into your essays and interviews. Again, this is good advice for all applicants.
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You are hiding something. Not sure what it is, not sure why, but you are holding back something that has nothing to do with preserving your anonymity or misguiding anybody who might read your post looking for details.

You expressed all of the above in your first SDN post last summer. Then you went on the dark side of the moon, and just recently have in a burst of posts come to tell us about your acceptance to a Top 10 school.

Something fishy with your story and your reluctance to reveal more, but I will let others gush about your inspirational story.
 
flip26 said:
Something fishy with your story and your reluctance to reveal more, but I will let others gush about your inspirational story.
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I don't think you are being fair to the OP. I'll admit that I also find his story quite surprising, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily untrue. Similarly, I don't think the OP was suggesting that most people with his stats should conclude that they have a realistic shot at a top 10 school; rather, I'd say his point is that applicants shouldn't think the game is completely over for them if they don't have great stats. There is a SMALL amount of hope for stats-challenged applicants who go all out to tell a compelling story and present themselves well.

This certainly agrees with my own experience. I am a nontrad student with a rocky academic past (25 years ago), good but not spectacular BCPM (3.6) from a well-known postbacc, and an unbalanced MCAT score (31, but 7 in PS). Yet I managed to get 6 interviews and one acceptance (as well as high WL positions at several schools I really like), and after retaking the MCAT during the application cycle and doing much better, I got an interview from my dream school, which is in the top 20. (I haven't learned the decision yet, but I'm obviously hoping it goes my way.) Even if I don't get my dream school, I've beaten the odds by getting in anywhere at all, since AMCAS statistics indicate that 80% of people with a PS score of 7 are not accepted to any med school. How did I do it? Pretty much the same way as the OP: by going out of my way to write really compelling essays (including extra ones that I sent on top of the secondaries) and LOIs that told my story in a way that got adcoms to listen. No, it didn't work at most places I applied to, but it worked a surprising amount of the time.

And I noticed something that also agrees with the OP's account: it seems that higher-ranked schools are often a bit more flexible in their admissions practices than lower-ranked schools, and thus can occasionally make an exception by giving an interview to a compelling candidate who would normally not make the cut on numbers alone. That person may still have quite a challenge when their file goes to the adcom for an admissions decision, but they still may have a chance, if their interviewers are so impressed with them that they will advocate strongly for them to the adcom. So, ironically, an applicant with less-than-perfect numbers may sometimes have a better chance at a more elite school than a lesser one. But this person MUST have a truly compelling story, strong writing skills, and great ECs and LORs. Such a combination of circumstances is surely pretty rare (although not totally unheard of).

You expressed all of the above in your first SDN post last summer. Then you went on the dark side of the moon, and just recently have in a burst of posts come to tell us about your acceptance to a Top 10 school.
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This is not at all accurate. I looked up the OP's post history, and his prior posts were all in a thread concerning whether an applicant with a 29 should retake the MCAT. This person's father had died right before he took the test, and he wondered whether adcoms would cut him any slack over that. Smalltowngeek counseled him not to retake, on the grounds that his MCAT score was not an insurmountable barrier to admission, but he warned the applicant not to use his father's death as a sympathy ploy. Instead, he suggested that the applicant write about the positive things he had learned through dealing with his father's illness.

This was a completely reasonable and thoughtful post, and there was NOTHING in there about smalltowngeek's experiences in the med school application process. So your assertion that he "expressed all the above in [his] first post" is wrong on its face.

Every member with a low post count is not necessarily a troll. Wasn't there a time when you also had 9 posts?
 
I believe this story.

A friend of mine last year applied with 3.4 GPA
30 MCAT score &
extremely good at selling herself!
(I got to read her PS and thought somehow she was boasting here and there), but she got 5 interviews and eventually got in.

student1799: BCPM (3.6) and 31 MCAT were very good, really.

May I know which schools you guys applied to ?
 
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Athens said:
I believe this story.

A friend of mine last year applied with 3.4 GPA
30 MCAT score &
extremely good at selling herself!
(I got to read her PS and thought somehow she was boasting), but she got 5 interviews and eventually got in.

student1799: BCPM (3.6) and 31 MCAT were very good, really.

May I know which schools you guys applied to ?
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The question isn't that they got in. The averages are just averages and some people obviously have to be below average if others are above average. Getting into a top 10? It's not impossible.

The question is what people reading this should get from this. I think one should be inspired that below average stats don't necessarily put them out of contention, but I don't really think anyone it's really going to inspire overconfidence, especially on SDN.
 
Thanks OP for the message. I think what you are trying to say is so important and I value your experience a lot. I somewhat fall on the opposite end of the specturm (34 MCAT/ 3.6 GPA from Ivy league school and not even an interview at my state school - i eventually got in somewhere and feel extremely grateful). But what I failed at most and underestimated is what you excelled at - selling yourself. Honestly, I always felt a bit slighted by process (while I never blame it) but now that I read your post I don't really feel that way, which might be surprising. It's kinda just like dating - your stats (job, looks, ext) may help, but how you present is everything and all things. Anyways, thank you for sharing your store and know that it's given me a lot of insight.
 
Student1799 and Sunit1, You guys hit the nail on the head. How you present yourself is key, regardless of your stats.

flip26... I am not hiding anything, but I do appreciate the reality you introduce. My goal is not to inspire false confidence. It is simply to highlight the value of presentation (which is important to every applicant, even more so if you have low stats) and how that can help overcoming a less-than-desirable number. While I direct my anecdote towards those with lower stats, my advice can serve all. Take it for what it's worth though.
 
smalltowngeek said:
Student1799 and Sunit1, You guys hit the nail on the head. How you present yourself is key, regardless of your stats.

flip26... I am not hiding anything, but I do appreciate the reality you introduce. My goal is not to inspire false confidence. It is simply to highlight the value of presentation (which is important to every applicant, even more so if you have low stats) and how that can help overcoming a less-than-desirable number. While I direct my anecdote towards those with lower stats, my advice can serve all. Take it for what it's worth though.
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If your take home msg is that applicants need to learn how to sell themselves (is this really news?), you could have said that in a much shorter post and without the "Top 10" claim...although you say your goal is not to inspire false confidence, you unwittingly are doing exactly that for people with low numbers who need to focus on getting into ANY med school and not a Top 10.
 
flip26 said:
So you call me a douche, and then you express pretty much the same sentiment I expressed RE the limits of the "inspiration" that can be drawn from the OP's post?

Don't be so gullible about every inspirational underdog post you read on SDN. Some of them are undoubtedly true, some of them are embellished, and some of them are leaving out some critical element that might better explain the achievement the poster is reporting.

And then some of them are just total bull****.
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I obviously agree with what you were trying to say, I just had qualms with the lact of tact you used in saying it. You could have said what you said and got the point across without the snarkiness. If you doubted this guy's story you could have noted that without knocking anyone who felt inspired by the OP's post. If they want to be gullible let 'em be, they'll get their dose when it's their time. Again based on some of your other posts I think you're hilarious and we think a lot alike but there is a level of decorum that exists even on an anonymous forum. So truce?
 
flip26 said:
If your take home msg is that applicants need to learn how to sell themselves (is this really news?), you could have said that in a much shorter post and without the "Top 10" claim...although you say your goal is not to inspire false confidence, you unwittingly are doing exactly that for people with low numbers who need to focus on getting into ANY med school and not a Top 10.
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You bring up a great point that I mentioned "top 10" in my post. Allow me to clarify, my acceptance being to a "top 10" doesn't matter, nor did I say anywhere that people with low stats should apply to them and think they will get in. You obviously aren't reading my posts entirely because above I stressed the importance of school selection and fit. It was just happenstance that the school I was the best fit for was a "top 10." Everybody is different and they should approach their app that way (I feel like I am repeating myself). They should also approach their EC's etc. in that way. "Selling yourself" (Successfully) is predicated by a personal connection to what you are doing (e.g. EC's), which will help you be compelling while drafting your essays and interviewing.

I simply used myself as an example of how such care in the application process can be advantageous.
 
Man, flip, this whole crusade against low GPA's is a bit much, don't you think? This is just a feel-good story. Take it for what it's worth, and move on.
 
smalltowngeek said:
Student1799 and Sunit1, You guys hit the nail on the head. How you present yourself is key, regardless of your stats.

flip26... I am not hiding anything, but I do appreciate the reality you introduce. My goal is not to inspire false confidence. It is simply to highlight the value of presentation (which is important to every applicant, even more so if you have low stats) and how that can help overcoming a less-than-desirable number. While I direct my anecdote towards those with lower stats, my advice can serve all. Take it for what it's worth though.
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I agree with your sentiment that value of presentation is paramount. I was admitted into a school where my student interviewer remarked that my essay connected to her very much personally.

However, I feel like your post might be very misleading. It's quite rare to be admitted with your numbers. A curosory examination of the data provided in the school selection sheet, which comes from the MSAR, revealed that the 10% percentile GPA is above 3.4 for pretty much all the top 10 schools, and the MCAT 10% percentile is somewhere around 30.

So who are applicants fitting in this 10% percentile? Conventional wisdom has it that they have done something remarkable elsewhere and make up for their numbers. I feel like there is a limit to how well you can present yourself and make yourself stand out from the crowd, no matter how charming you are.

Basically, you are suggesting to other applicants that high GPA, high MCAT, good EC and such are not needed, as long as you can sell yourself well.

Unfortunately, most applicants with low numbers don't ever get to sell themselves. They don't even have a chance at interviewing. look at member Koko_eats' profile.

Let me give you another personal example how limiting presentation can be depends on school.

I interviewed at a top 10 school. My student interviewer liked me enough to give me her contact information and ask me to ask her any questions.

I REALLY connected with my faculty interviewer. It was my best interview in the entire cycle for sure. It went so well that she gave me her phone number and told me that I can stay with her and her husband in my future visit, and she will be my faculty host.

(EDIT: before you ask, I did not ask for neither my student nor my faculty interviewer's contact information. they volunteered it to me)

I was outright rejected from that school, and it became my only post-interview rejection. I emailed my faculty interviewer, who stated she submited glowing review for me, but evidently in her school, a glaring interview cannot override GPA and MCAT much lower than their average. In my case, it was a difference between 3.6 and 3.8 (they have a 3.8 average)
 
smalltowngeek said:
You bring up a great point that I mentioned "top 10" in my post. Allow me to clarify, my acceptance being to a "top 10" doesn't matter, nor did I say anywhere that people with low stats should apply to them and think they will get in. You obviously aren't reading my posts entirely because above I stressed the importance of school selection and fit. It was just happenstance that the school I was the best fit for was a "top 10." Everybody is different and they should approach their app that way (I feel like I am repeating myself). They should also approach their EC's etc. in that way. "Selling yourself" (Successfully) is predicated by a personal connection to what you are doing (e.g. EC's), which will help you be compelling while drafting your essays and interviewing.

I simply used myself as an example of how such care in the application process can be advantageous.
Click to expand...

speaking of "fit", it's not about how much they "fit" you, it's more about how much you "fit" them. it's a seller's market.

I am sure a majority of people on this board will find good "fit" with Harvard, Stanford, UCSF of the world provided that they are admitted it.

As a result, just by showing how you fit the school may not fly, especially when 6000 other kids are trying to do it.
 
zpiff said:
Why does everyone think that having doctors in your family helps you when you apply? I feel like if I were on an adcom the only thing that might indicate to me is to make sure these applicants are genuine in their interest for medicine and aren't pushed into it by parents.
Click to expand...

Obviously you can look at it two ways.

IF I had a family full of doctors, I would argue that I understand the life of a physician more than someone who comes from a family that has no doctors in it. How can you argue against that?

Since I don't, I would argue just what you said - I picked this career choice with my own volition. I wasn't pushed into a career choice that say mother or father had wanted me to, to follow in their footsteps.
 
Handy388 said:
I was outright rejected from that school, and it became my only post-interview rejection. I emailed my faculty interviewer, who stated she submited glowing review for me, but evidently in her school, a glaring interview cannot override GPA and MCAT much lower than their average. In my case, it was a difference between 3.6 and 3.8 (they have a 3.8 average)
Click to expand...

This is mainly school dependent methinks. For example, at one of my two interviews, they outright told us that after the interview, the adcom was blinded to our mcat and gpa. The reason being, if you are interviewing, then you are academically qualified to attend. It was not said, but it was implied at the other school.

What you say makes total sense. Some schools reintroduce stats into their post-interview decision, providing limitations no matter how successfully you presented yourself.

EDIT: Also, many congratulations on your acceptances.
 
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smalltowngeek said:
Some schools reintroduce stats into their post-interview decision, providing limitations no matter how successfully you presented yourself.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I'd say that most schools are in this category. I wish more schools used the "level playing field" approach you described; if they did, I think I'd have gotten more outright accepts rather than being waitlisted in so many places.
 
Handy388 said:
I agree with your sentiment that value of presentation is paramount. I was admitted into a school where my student interviewer remarked that my essay connected to her very much personally.

However, I feel like your post might be very misleading. It's quite rare to be admitted with your numbers. A curosory examination of the data provided in the school selection sheet, which comes from the MSAR, revealed that the 10% percentile GPA is above 3.4 for pretty much all the top 10 schools, and the MCAT 10% percentile is somewhere around 30.
So who are applicants fitting in this 10% percentile? Conventional wisdom has it that they have done something remarkable elsewhere and make up for their numbers. I feel like there is a limit to how well you can present yourself and make yourself stand out from the crowd, no matter how charming you are.

Basically, you are suggesting to other applicants that high GPA, high MCAT, good EC and such are not needed, as long as you can sell yourself well.
Click to expand...

And to believe the OP's story, you have to believe that he overcame the fact that he was sub 10th percentile in BOTH GPA and MCAT, not just one or the other. I would guess that the vast majority of successful applicants at Top 10 schools who have a low GPA have an otherwise high MCAT, or vice versa, in addition to other compelling factors (URM status, economically deprived, world class ECs, etc).

It strains credulity that the OP is unwilling to share whatever else may have been at play in his success, other than his "sell yourself" advice, and I remain skeptical of his story...the OP is now trying to tell us it was all in his "salesmanship," but I seriously doubt if that would have even gotten him an interview, much less an acceptance, at a Top 10 school.

Finally, it sounds like he had no acceptances at any other schools - how is that possible? Did he only turn on the charm at the Top 10?
 
student1799 said:
Unfortunately, I'd say that most schools are in this category. I wish more schools used the "level playing field" approach you described; if they did, I think I'd have gotten more outright accepts rather than being waitlisted in so many places.
Click to expand...

What's more important, a 30 minute conversation, or everything you've done in your whole life?
 
drizzt3117 said:
What's more important, a 30 minute conversation, or everything you've done in your whole life?
Click to expand...

The latter. But my life is pretty goddamned impressive, so if that counted more than my stats I'd have gotten in.
 
Oh no...
Like they wld say...too many pennies getting on the railroad track...
Dude...Flip...chill. You may have a point, but your way of expressing it is..👎
 
student1799 said:
The latter. But my life is pretty goddamned impressive, so if that counted more than my stats I'd have gotten in.
Click to expand...

and you did, probably because of your "goddamned impressive" life.
 
flip26 said:
It strains credulity that the OP is unwilling to share whatever else may have been at play in his success, other than his "sell yourself" advice, and I remain skeptical of his story...the OP is now trying to tell us it was all in his "salesmanship," but I seriously doubt if that would have even gotten him an interview, much less an acceptance, at a Top 10 school.

Finally, it sounds like he had no acceptances at any other schools - how is that possible? Did he only turn on the charm at the Top 10?
Click to expand...

Please enlighten me. Is it your obvious jealousy of my success that makes you so skeptical?

This thread was meant to be positive and present my thoughts on how people can maximize their potential for success. Please stop the low GPA bashing. Also, realize that you don't have to be URM or economically disadvantaged to get accepted with lower stats (At any school), provided you can present your situation in a compelling manner.
 
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