Why med school care about verbal section???

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Bernoull

Bernoull

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I was struck by one Med School's take on the dreaded MCAT VR section..

Q. What is the most important part of the MCAT? Does anybody look at my writing sample?

A. All parts of the MCAT are important. Committees look particularly carefully at the verbal reasoning score because that is something that is not taught in medical school and medical school involves tons of reading and fast comprehension. The admissions committee here looks at your score on the writing sample as only a tertiary factor in the admissions decision.


This comment makes sense to me, Med Schools can/will teach you physiology, pathophysiology etc.. but not critical thinking skills, comprehension etc..

However, it can be hard to truly measure these skills from VR section especially for non-native English speakers (myself included) because facility with the language can get in the way!!

just my 2 cents..

 
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That's interesting. I had always had a different view of the value of VR, but I guess it was a "longer-term" approach: I figured that since a case history given initially by the patient is generally far from perfect (i.e. rarely complete in necessary details and superfluous in unnecessary information) that the skills of inference and integration of important facts would be valuable clinical skills.

In that case, they should probably make the entire VR composed of passages from biochem and immunology textbooks. I might lose my last ounce of sanity while studying for this exam, if that were the case.😉
 
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I always do pretty well on verbal, but that section shouldn't receive more weight than the others. If you can kill the sciences (in english), you'll obviously be able to kill the sciences again in medical school.

Besides, does anyone else feel like there's little reading comprehension on the verbal. I'll get a passage on business ethics and they'll ask about the author's likely beliefs on extra-terrestrial life. ****in ******ed.
 
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I would have loved VR if it was reading things I understood for the most part.. then the logic of it and the fast reading comprehension would all make sense!
English being my second language as well I dont think verbal accurately measures anything because I can have a great reading comprehension in long BS passages even if it was totally new info, yet verbal can possibly keep me from going to med school all by itself!!
 
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Yeah, I'm not particularly great in this section either, but then again complaining about it wouldn't help either because it's one of those things that they came up with to weed out the candidates (I just find this is one of those things they use to separate you from the others who get in). Although, my parents are from another country as well, I've always struggled with verbal sections even on the ACT (I blame it on the alc alc alc alc alc alc alcohol~ ... no i'm just not an avid reader). But, I don't think saying english is not your first language is a good way to think about it since that will just set you up for failure. I've read posts on here where people who start out with 2 or 4's on this section who are not native english speakers end up getting above 11 and even up to 13 after hard work and determination. The value that I see out of such a section is that doctors should learn to read alot of information on a daily basis because the nature of the profession in my opinion requires that you sink your teeth into all aspects of life in order to broaden your knowledge base. And, this section is another extension of a straight up thinking game which they want you to do. anyways, I feel you on this one, and I've had friends who get into med school with like 7 and 8's on their mcats, don't count on being one the lucky few who pull this off. Let's work at verbal to the point where it will start running away from us as soon as it sees us! i'm on my way to become the verbal cookie monster!!🙂
 
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VR is important to adcoms because doctor must possess the ability to think critically and problem solve on the fly even when presented with foreign information. PS and BS test your ability to apply knowledge and they are designed to test you in a discipline familiar to you. Verbal allows schools to see how you respond to something unfamiliar.

At least that is the way I see it.
 
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I think they could at least improve it to reading things that were enjoyable to read. I am not sure how the humanity passages will predict your ability to take in alot of science info. But I guess that is just my opinion.
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I agree with most people on this topic. Med schools care about the VR section because of it's ability to expose critical thinking weakness or strength. ALSO (from what I have experienced from doing an SMP) medical school notes are very extensive, therefore you need to be able focus on whats really important and what's not for exams. LASTLY, some medical school exams might involve clinical questions where you might have to analyze a paragraph of symptoms of a patient. Focusing on what symptoms are important and what isnt allows you to come up with the appropriate answer in a timemy manner.

so basically being able to read and comprehend in a quick manner is something you will repeatedly need to do over and over in medical school and in your future training.
 
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In my princeton review class, the verbal teacher said they put in the verbal section so more American students would get into medical school. Apparently international students were hosing them on the science-only MCAT.

That being said, it's the least correlated of the 3 sections to success on Step I. But they just make it hard cause, well, it's supposed to be a hard test. I sincerely doubt that most med schools think verbal is the most important section.
 
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Are you sure it's the least correlated to the step 1? I heard it was the most correlated to the step 1, which sucks for me because it's my worst section!
 
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Yeah, does the main idea and the author's point of view really matter when you're in med school? All you'll need to do is extract objective information and be able to understand it, which is mostly already tested in the BS section. Most of the skills they are testing in the VR, I don't see how they could have any applicability in practicing medicine. ie. what does this word mean in paragraph 2? which of the following would the author agree with?
 
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muhali3 said:
Yeah, does the main idea and the author's point of view really matter when you're in med school? All you'll need to do is extract objective information and be able to understand it, which is mostly already tested in the BS section. Most of the skills they are testing in the VR, I don't see how they could have any applicability in practicing medicine. ie. what does this word mean in paragraph 2? which of the following would the author agree with?
Click to expand...

Exactly, the skills necessary to answer these questions are completely useless in medicine. I thought I would be reading medical journals, or articles that present medical findings, procedures, information, blah blah blah. Not have to figure out how the author feels or what he would choose to do.
 
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ive heard from multiple sources, including my tpr professors that verbal is probably the most important section because it shows that you can read complex passages and comprehend what the author is trying to convey. Somewhat comparable to problem solving techniques required for diagnosing a patient (supposedly). Also the trend in the bio section seems to be moving to more of a verbal like section meaning that they want you to be able to understand complex passages/experiments. just my 2 cents
 
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Bernoull said:
I was struck by one Med School's take on the dreaded MCAT VR section..

Q. What is the most important part of the MCAT? Does anybody look at my writing sample?

A. All parts of the MCAT are important. Committees look particularly carefully at the verbal reasoning score because that is something that is not taught in medical school and medical school involves tons of reading and fast comprehension. The admissions committee here looks at your score on the writing sample as only a tertiary factor in the admissions decision.


This comment makes sense to me, Med Schools can/will teach you physiology, pathophysiology etc.. but not critical thinking skills, comprehension etc..

However, it can be hard to truly measure these skills from VR section especially for non-native English speakers (myself included) because facility with the language can get in the way!!

just my 2 cents..
Click to expand...

I heard from my Princeton Review director that the verbal section is a way to eliminate a lot of minorities. This is because alot of minorities were getting into American medical schools therefore not leaving very many spots open for Americans. The verbal section is just another way to discriminate. 😡
 
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BasalGanglia said:
I heard from my Princeton Review director that the verbal section is a way to eliminate a lot of minorities. This is because alot of minorities were getting into American medical schools therefore not leaving very many spots open for Americans. The verbal section is just another way to discriminate. 😡
Click to expand...

That's COMPLETELY ridiculous. It's there to eliminate people who can't grasp a complex English-language passage and critically analyze the information presented. If your grasp of English isn't strong enough to pass it, I'm not sure how you think you would pass med school or be an effective physician in an English-speaking country which is where the MCAT is applicable.
 
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I'm really bitter about VR, but again probably cause it's my weakest section. But in any case, this what I told my friends. VR is a section ******ed because you're trying to analyze what is already given. What you are essentially doing is trying to rehash provided information. I thought science sections are more relevant because it requires to think through what you know, pick out the relevant information, and apply it to problems you generally have never seen before. Again, it's a very biased point of view and I understand the logic behind VR, but that's what I keep telling people when they think VR is the stupidest section every devised on the MCAT 😛.
 
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wow, blame the system for weeding out the minorities... I guess this is why I'm not getting a high verbal score huh? It's because my parents are from another country, even though I was born in the states... good job genius.👍
 
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BasalGanglia said:
I heard from my Princeton Review director that the verbal section is a way to eliminate a lot of minorities. This is because alot of minorities were getting into American medical schools therefore not leaving very many spots open for Americans. The verbal section is just another way to discriminate. 😡
Click to expand...

its not to weed out minorities, it is to weed out robots. Prep companies say that to minorities so that they (minorities) don't feel so bad about their verbal scores..

Unlike the sciences, verbal section is where you encounter uncertainty because not all answers are so straight-forward as a physics formula, or a chemical reaction, or a biological process.. verbal questions also test your reading skills, which are important in a field like medicine, where new discoveries are made at a rapid pace, so the physician should be able to keep up with these advances
 
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Baboo Bhaiya said:
its not to weed out minorities, it is to weed out robots. Prep companies say that to minorities so that they (minorities) don't feel so bad about their verbal scores..

Unlike the sciences, verbal section is where you encounter uncertainty because not all answers are so straight-forward as a physics formula, or a chemical reaction, or a biological process.. verbal questions also test your reading skills, which are important in a field like medicine, where new discoveries are made at a rapid pace, so the physician should be able to keep up with these advances
Click to expand...

Skills such as knowing the author's point of view or what he supports/disagrees with doesn't matter when you're practicing medicine, even when you are reading medical journals, the author's perspective doesn't matter, it's the data and conclusions he presents that matter.
 
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If you read my post from a few days you... you will quickly learn that I hate the verbal section more than anyone else here on SDN:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=630223

However, I will not complain about it, I will not try to justify how "wrong" they were for designing this part of the test. You gotta know one thing, the system is designed to weed people out, from the first year in college, we take 100 level chemistries and biologies and everyone calls them "weed-out" courses... why? because its part of the system

If medical school addmission (also with dental, pharmacy, and a bunch of other hot fields) didn't have weed-out processes, then hundereds of thousands of students would apply... every school would get over 50,000 applications, and thats a no-no.

Of course somebody can make the argument, that they are not using the correct processes to weed folks out, like for instance being able to read passages in philosophy and social sciences which in MY opinion shouldn't indicate how you will read passages that are more designed in human medicine litterature, the 2 readings are different as day and night.... maybe your ability to "think" and "analysis" should be determined by other means (other than reading philosophy).... but who am I to say this, Im just somebody who was trapped by the "weed-out" system

but hey to them its working, they aren't getting 50,000 applications, most schools get a fraction of that (3000 to 5000).

Good luck to you all
 
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muhali3 said:
Skills such as knowing the author's point of view or what he supports/disagrees with doesn't matter when you're practicing medicine, even when you are reading medical journals, the author's perspective doesn't matter, it's the data and conclusions he presents that matter.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Most of those questions test completely useless skills.

If they were trying to test out ability to read a medical journal and take information from it, they would have us do so. Such as "what should be done after this...." or "should this occur, what does the author recommend?". Instead they ask about totally crazy **** like the authors view point on COMPLETELY unrelated topics.
 
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BasalGanglia said:
I heard from my Princeton Review director that the verbal section is a way to eliminate a lot of minorities. This is because alot of minorities were getting into American medical schools therefore not leaving very many spots open for Americans. The verbal section is just another way to discriminate. 😡
Click to expand...

Is the implication here that minorites are not Americans😱😱😱😱😱???

From the top of my head there's Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans, American Indians, African-Americans, Puerto-Ricans and i bet u can hyphenate any nationality with American n some will be US citizens/residents. Minority-status and citizenship/immigration-status are not synonymous!!

I totally reject these conspiracy theories, there are just not enough spots to seat every applicant so ADCOMS MUST screen applicants thru gpa, mcat, extracurricular, LORs, PS, interview, location of ur Univ (North America VS foreign), residency status etc etc etc, I don't think any of these parameters were designed to exclude any ethnic/racial group, whether ur disadvantaged bcos English is ur 99th language is a separate issue besides it that doesn't preclude it from admissions it just means u need to work harder for the VR...etc etc
 
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