San Antone Dental School: A student's perspective

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Everman

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Hello everyone,
It looks like it has been a while (2006) since anyone started a thread about the Texas dental schools. There is another thread, a survey ("can you answer these questions about your dental school") and it is very helpful. However, I disagree with certain aspects, those that pertain to student-faculty interaction at San Antonion dental school. No offense to the student who submitted it, but the experience can vary somewhat from student to student. I thought I would share this with other up and comers who are trying to decide where to go to school. I can't tell you anything about other schools, but hopefully someone else can.
First off, I'm thankful to be in dental school, nearly finished actually, and I still believe dentistry is a great profession. However, dental school is a tough, often discouraging experience, at least at San Antonio. Several of the faculty here are ex-military and while some faculty are kind and respectful toward students, many are not. For instance, there is one group practice in which nearly one-half of the juniors could potentially fail the year and either have to repeat or remediate over the summer and the faculty of that group and administrators who have been made aware of the situation do not seem to be too concerned. Some of the students in that group are very good students. In my perspective, there has been an ever increasing disregard for the education of students here and the preferred option appears to be failing students rather than helping them recognize deficiencies and improve. I'm not basing this upon a few isolated incidents and while I have had my fair share, I know others have had it worse.
I pretty much agree with everything else that was posted on the survey (although we do have about 10 cut-throat gunners in the class, but I suppose that is about normal). If such is the case at the other two schools, then I guess y'all will just have to deal with it... and it's not unbearable, but is sure can make for a long day, month...year if you get stuck in the wrong group.
Some of the faculty have been given way too much authority (one in particular, and all of you at UTHSCSA know who I am talking about) and if they think you should fail for poor performance, poor professionalism (a word that can often be applied capriciously to include anything the faculty doesn't like but has yet to be added elsewhere in an evaluation form). My group is great and I'm glad to be in it, but in other groups, the students are treated very disrepectfully. It is possible for students to fail, learn from it, and still not be humiliated. Somel of the faculty fail to grasp this notion and inflict a level of humiliation upon students that I am certain they would not want inflicted upon themselves. And, in general, I would say the greivances of the students are not generally addressed, especially in the clinic. A fact that the building of a new student lounge will not ameliorate or disguise.
This is not meant to be a gripe thread, I could have said a lot more, rather it is intended to give future dental students an honest perspective of what I, and several others who prompted me to write this thread, have experienced here. While I hold several of the faculty in high regard here and am grateful to them, some chages are in order and long overdue.
 
hey, what do you mean by groups?
 
uh o.. that doesnt exactly give me a great feeling about my coming years.. should I be worried??
 
hey, what do you mean by groups?

schools will split the classes into smaller groups and then those students will work together with faculty assigned to those groups.

at least thats what i figure the OP meant
 
Guess what... this is the reality of most dental schools! If you're looking to spend four years in a cozy environment where you're treated like a fellow professional just earning your wings, you're in for a rude awakening. Dental school is a pretty miserable experience and a large number of the faculty are there not because of their passion for teaching but rather their inability to communicate and lack compassion for fellow human beings. If you can't accept the fact that you have to really bite your lip and turn your cheek so to speak then you will struggle with the injustices that are abound in most dental schools. It's not my nature to shut my mouth and I struggled mightily getting through school... plus, you don't want to gain a reputation as one who questions authority or you will be reminded strongly who's in charge. Good luck... fortunately it's only 4 years and theirs 100 people in the same boat as you.
 
Guess what... this is the reality of most dental schools! If you're looking to spend four years in a cozy environment where you're treated like a fellow professional just earning your wings, you're in for a rude awakening. Dental school is a pretty miserable experience and a large number of the faculty are there not because of their passion for teaching but rather their inability to communicate and lack compassion for fellow human beings. If you can't accept the fact that you have to really bite your lip and turn your cheek so to speak then you will struggle with the injustices that are abound in most dental schools. It's not my nature to shut my mouth and I struggled mightily getting through school... plus, you don't want to gain a reputation as one who questions authority or you will be reminded strongly who's in charge. Good luck... fortunately it's only 4 years and theirs 100 people in the same boat as you.

What? Sorry no pun intended but that statement is simply not true. I agree many instructors may not be very patient with students, but there is no need to direct your anger at dental faculty by making this kind of exaggerated claims.
 
As a recent grad of UTHSCSA, I can say that there is a large percentage of the clinical faculty that are there because they tried private practice and failed. Their personalities and social capabilities simply were not compatable with private practice. So, they bring those personalities to the pre-clinical and clinical floor along with their bitterness.

By the way UTHSCSA is a fine school and I had a great time there, but I also was not in group 1.
 
hi jsimpson, a fellow classmate!

i think we had a very thorough and fair training at SA - sorry to the OP that your year is different. the more time that is put between me and school, the fonder my memories get. OP - chin up, it will be ok in the end.
 
...Dental school is a pretty miserable experience and a large number of the faculty are there not because of their passion for teaching but rather their inability to communicate and lack compassion for fellow human beings....

I found this to be spot on at my school. Of course not every prof, but it was the ones who were full-timers and didn't do dentistry outside the school.

What? Sorry no pun intended but that statement is simply not true. I agree many instructors may not be very patient with students, but there is no need to direct your anger at dental faculty by making this kind of exaggerated claims.

Exaggerate? It was merely a statement.

I think there are plenty of others who have been through D school who can identify with this experience.
 
What? Sorry no pun intended but that statement is simply not true. I agree many instructors may not be very patient with students, but there is no need to direct your anger at dental faculty by making this kind of exaggerated claims.

Shhhhhhh everyone....
The pre-dental seaweed knows it all!

On another note to the OP, chill out man. I feel like you are one of my classmates, although I am not in SA. Use some politics, and as one of the docs said above, don't try to get into any arguments, and do not "question authority". Give them the smile and pass by (Besides passing the course).
 
What? Sorry no pun intended but that statement is simply not true. I agree many instructors may not be very patient with students, but there is no need to direct your anger at dental faculty by making this kind of exaggerated claims.

you have no business chiming in unless you've done your four years of school and speak from experience. I'm not angry, just stating a my perspective as I've been there and done that. It's one thing not to accept someone's advice and it's another to speak from INexperience...
 
you have no business chiming in unless you've done your four years of school and speak from experience. I'm not angry, just stating a my perspective as I've been there and done that. It's one thing not to accept someone's advice and it's another to speak from INexperience...

"Inability to communicate" and "lack compassion for fellow human beings" are very strong words, and you weren't just referring to a few or several faculty members, but "a large number" of them in most dental schools. I was mainly questioning your word choices instead of having doubts about your personal experiences. I apologize if I jumped into the conclusion too quickly in the previous post. I could be wrong that most faculty aren't as terrible as you described, but if you want to substantiate your claims, please give us predents more examples from your bountiful experiences so hopefully some of us can better prepare this kind of situation. Or if you think predents have no business chiming in so you don't even bother to communicate, perhaps consider joining one of them dental faculty.
 
Anyway, what else can you tell us about san Antonio? I want to go here. More info! 🙂
 
Wow the closer I get to the start of dental school the more I really regret not going to BAYLOR. Warning to all you predents, if dental schools were like states being at SA would be like living in Upper New York and being at BAYLOR would be like living in Southern California.
 
Wow the closer I get to the start of dental school the more I really regret not going to BAYLOR. Warning to all you predents, if dental schools were like states being at SA would be like living in Upper New York and being at BAYLOR would be like living in Southern California.

Wrong, if dental schools were like states, every single one of them would be like living in Zimbabwe. Seriously, dental school will suck, no matter where you go. It will be difficult mentally, physically, and emotionally.

I also agree that there are a significant number of professors that came to dental school because they could not succeed in private practice because they seriously lack interpersonal skills. There are also some great professors, but unfortunately a little bad seems to overpower a lot of good.
 
Wow the closer I get to the start of dental school the more I really regret not going to BAYLOR. Warning to all you predents, if dental schools were like states being at SA would be like living in Upper New York and being at BAYLOR would be like living in Southern California.

I have heard a lot of interesting things about Baylor... people on my interview were telling me not to go there. Dentists I shadowed told me not to go there. I could go into details, but I will not do so here.
 
"Inability to communicate" and "lack compassion for fellow human beings" are very strong words, and you weren't just referring to a few or several faculty members, but "a large number" of them in most dental schools. I was mainly questioning your word choices instead of having doubts about your personal experiences. I apologize if I jumped into the conclusion too quickly in the previous post. I could be wrong that most faculty aren't as terrible as you described, but if you want to substantiate your claims, please give us predents more examples from your bountiful experiences so hopefully some of us can better prepare this kind of situation. Or if you think predents have no business chiming in so you don't even bother to communicate, perhaps consider joining one of them dental faculty.

EVERY school has great profs and crappy profs. The numbers will vary though from school to school which can greatly influence your perspective. If there are a lot of crappy ones at a particular school, the odds you have a problem with one or more increase greatly and increase the likelyhood that you will have an opinion of discontent towards the professors in general. Here at UTDB in Houston, I like the profs for the most part. We do have a couple that students don't care for, but for the most part we enjoy the profs. But as I said, we do have a couple that we don't like. They are prime examples that exhibit an "Inability to communicate" and "lack compassion for fellow human beings". Seaweed, you may feel those are harsh words, but they are real. We have one professor who in the clinic will belittle the students in front of the patients and make you feel totally incompetant. She has little to No patience for not knowing something or making errors. I have so far been lucky with her and haven't had any problems with her, but I know many who have. The treatment she gives fits perfectly in the "Inability to communicate" and "lack compassion for fellow human beings" category. Seaweed, until you have been there, you have no clue how it can be. I am sure you have never experienced this, thus the reason you feel the other individual was being harsh. But the SAD and simple fact is that there are dental school professors at every school who do fit into this category.
 
BUMP

Any other San Antonio students have anything to add?
 
okay, dental school sucks, it doesn't matter which school you go to. things are not as rosy as they appear during your interviews. the sooner you accept this, the better off you'll be. It may suck less for others, but it still sucks. Be prepared to be tested, stretched, pushed, prodded, berated, belittled for 4 years. you really need thick skin. this proved to be too much for some of our classmates and they moved on to different things. My advice to yall: swallow your pride, bite your tongue, lick your wounds, and move on. its just not worth it to try to start something with the higher ups. There will be instances in which u are treated unfairly; no one cares, and you shouldn't either. Its a rite of passage and you just have to roll with it.

I will just go through a list of pros/cons about San antonio

Pros:
1. there are some truly wonderful instructors at the school, who really demonstrate a desire to teach. find these ppl if you're struggling , they are your lifeline and will keep you sane

2. all 3 texas schools give you a great clinical experience compared to the rest of the nation. you will be more prepared when you leave than the majority of new grads.

Cons:
1. No consistency in grading during 3rd year. Whether you pass or fail a procedure may very well depend on which faculty shows up. this is always a fun suprise, as you group 1 peeps know all too well...

2. Overcrowding. The student-faculty ratio is poor, the faculty is getting older, and as such, they will hire anyone with a DDS. so what do the admins do? They add 15 or so international students to an already crowded clinic. I do not begrudge these students in the slightest. Many are wonderful clinicians and very friendly. That being said, dental school is a business, and what better way to increase revenue than to add 15 students that pay $50K more in tuition and produce much more $$$ for the school when compared to a struggling Joe Schmo from Anytown, USA. So I ask you, will the school, aware of this overcrowding problem, take the time and effort to help out these struggling students? Or will they kick them to the curb, killing 2 birds with one stone. You tell me.

3. Certain faculty have way too much authority, as cited above. If they don’t like you, they can pretty much screw you over, building their case against you, twisting incidents around to match their agenda, all under the oft-cited and deliberately ambiguous term, professionalism. I am aware of a couple nightmare situations where students were cited as having a lack of professionalism, and forced to repeat the year. Don’t rock the boat, don’t talk back, don’t do anything in the slightest that could be misconstrued as not being professional. Some ass kissing probably wouldn’t hurt either. Yea, it sucks.

Again I am aware that all dental schools have problems, I am just highlighting some issues that we at San Antonio face. No different than any other school, I’m sure. Dental school is a means to an end, so u guys must treat it as such. Just get through it, and you’ll be a better person for it, that is if you don’t go crazy first! Serenity now……
 
Dear Pre-Dental Students,
Dental school sucks. What has been stated in a number of these entries is spot-on. If you are in the top 5-10% of your class, you will probably have no worries. However, should you have a personality that's not appreciated - you learn by asking questions, you have a positive self-image, etc. etc.,you struggle with some aspects of dental education, you may find yourself in a world of hurt. In some schools in which there are group leaders, conflict with a group leader can spell the end of your dental career, because so much power is placed in the hands of a single individual. And if this individual is corrupt, has an axe to grind, etc., etc., good luck! And don't think that the faculty members don't pass on their biases to other faculty members. They do. There are some great dental faculty members out there who will work with you, treat you like a colleague-in-training, will help to instill real knowledge, will support and encourage you. But, if you find yourself in a group with someone unlike this directing it, you're in trouble. You can complain to the administration, but to no avail. You can try to work it out with the instructor, but it probably won't work. And if you find yourself making a mistake, as everyone in dental school does, you may find it written up in reports which only serve to further sink your boat. Sorry to be so negative, but I've seen all of this happen. And I am a dental faculty member. Good luck!
 
I just wanted to give my 2 cents to the pre-dents. Dental school sucked. Although I made some great friends while in school, Dental School was arguably the worst 4 years of my life. There's really nothing you can do to prepare you for it, so just listen to the advice of the people who have been there and also get in good with the class above you. The class above you can help you get old exams, study materials, advice, and then pass down good patients to you during your 3rd and 4th year (if you get there). Our Class of 2009 started with around 93 students, lost 19, and gained 10 international students, and some students (I don't know how many, but probably ~10) from our upper class who had to repeat. I don't know how dental school was at Baylor or at Houston, but from first-hand experience, dental school at UTHSCSA left a lot to be desired. The most frustrating thing I kept repeating to myself time after time was "it doesn't have to be this way". There are multiple examples of simple things that both teachers and the administration could to at the school that would benefit the students at minimal effort. UTHSCSA, does, however has a wonderful research history and some faculty who are PHENOMINAL! That being said, we also have faculty who have serious social disorders. Anyhow, I will try to stay on topic and be specific about my exerience.

The first year of dental school is primarily academic (gross anatomy, biochem, etc.)...and it stinks. You will study your butt off, drink a lot of coffee, be sleep deprived, be stressed out, and probably not get the A's you are used to getting. The 2nd year is both academic and hand's on. I thought that the 2nd year was the most stressful of any year in d-school, but everyone has their own opinions. There will be at least 1 exam, 3 quizzes, and a possible project and\or lab practical per week. 2nd year was not fun. Be prepared to work long hours, drink lots of coffee, etc etc.. . 3rd year of school is totally a crap-shoot. It solely depends on the faculty who are covering you in clinic and what types of patients you get. Our school is divided into 8 groups, so basically UTHSCSA has 8 different dental schools throughout the 3rd and 4th year. I was lucky (sarcasm) to be in Group 1. Descriptions of our group have been previously posted, and yes they are very accurate. Our faculty have nicknames for the various groups like Group 2 is "easy street, Group 3 being "country club", etc . . . one such facutly member told me our Group 1 nickname is "Bataan Death March". If you're not a WW2 historian, look it up. After I heard that description of our group, I just had to chuckle to myself, because it was obvious to me and to this faculty member that Group 1, as a whole, had the hardest time compared to other Groups. That being said, faculty members do change groups from time to time, so please don't be discouraged if you are projected to be in any one specific Group.
All that being said, congratulations on going to dental school. My advice: Keep your mouth shut. Don't ask questions. Work hard. Get your requirements done. Help out those in need of help. I am happy to field any questions... I hope this prattle has been helpful.
 
Thanks for the contributions. Great posts.
 
Reading this thread makes me very happy about the choice I have made. I got my acceptance did away with the other interviews I had.

One slab of advice to pre-dentals. It is very important to be in a school that you want to be in. The fact is, you will encounter challenges where ever you go, but if it is a place that you love and enjoy, the challenges are little easier to deal with.
 
it's foolish and naive to think that dental school doesn't suck and thinking it's going to be this life altering positive experience is setting yourself up for major disappointment. It just isn't and if you go into it being realistic you're going to tolerate it a lot better than many of your classmates will. I'm not pulling this stuff out of my butt, I've lived it as have many on here have as well. I'm not trying to be a jerk or show a lack of compassion to those of you that haven't walked the walk... I'm trying to HELP you so you don't get caught off guard like I did and hit a wall of disillusionment and discontentment like I did after my 2nd year. I sometimes think it's a miracle to think I actually made it through because there were many times I didn't think I would. I never suffered from anxiety or depression til I hit dental school... I hope that you fair better than I did. I met a lot of good people but it was generally a very negative experience and I'm just thankful to be done. The longer you're out of school the more the feelings fade but you also realize how inept most of the people teaching you were... almost all of the faculty are there because they can't make it in the real world.
 
i am 4 years out of san antonio - the best things about that program are: a reasonable amount of lab work in clinic, your own clinical chair!, newer facilities, stellar postgrad programs on site, tremendous research opportunity, etc. etc.

the few students that had any problems generally brought it on themselves.

seriously dental school is tough no matter where you are, things are not fair sometimes, you will squeak by sometimes, and there are some faculty members that are better than others.

but at the end, they call you doctor. so keep your noses to the stone, its all worth it.
 
I heard that last year over 50% of Group 1 had to repeat 3rd year. Can that be true?:scared:
 
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