Belmont U Off-topic SOP surplus discussion

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WVUPharm2007

WVUPharm2007

imagine sisyphus happy
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BelmontUSOP2 said:
It's the time of the year for the start of PharmCAS application filing.

If you have questions specific to Belmont University's pharmacy program, feel free to post them. I (and other members of the BUSOP community: faculty and students and SDN friends) will do our best to answer them as quickly and completely as we can.

Eric H. Hobson, Ph.D.
Associate Dean for Academic Affairs
Professor of Pharmacy
Belmont USOP
Click to expand...


Yeah. I got a question for you.

Why in the name of all things good and holy are you people opening another pharmacy school? What do you honestly think is going to happen in Tennessee when three new pharmacy schools all of a sudden flood the market with pharmacists? I guess you folks were the first me-too school to open up...and you aren't as creepy as the Union people and their much more overt church-school thing...but nonetheless...you and I know darn well that TN doesn't need that many pharmacy schools. Let alone the fact that there are now multiple pharmacy schools in TN that want to be churches on the side...but I digress on that issue....my concern is the fact that you folks have opened a pharmacy school.

Just look at what's happening in Jersey and Eastern PA. There are pharmacists, many of which post on these forums, that can't get a job within a 200 mile radius of their homes. They are doing temp work and maybe getting 10 hours a week. New grads are just having a tough time getting work in many, many locations.

If you folks from these private, for-profit schools keep opening up new programs, you will saturate the market. I remember when I was getting into the profession, there was no such thing as tiers of schools...but right now...I can honesty say there are clear tiers forming. And it's just not me saying this, it's actual academics I have talked to. And let's say tiers form...and I'm hiring a new grad pharmacist in TN...you tell me which tier I'm going to put a school like U of Tennessee in...and what tier I'd put Belmont in...and who is it that I hire....?

It's just like the JD and the MBA. Any Tom, Dick, and Harry opens up a school...and only the grads from the top tiered schools get jobs.

Will that be the PharmD in 15 years? It won't matter to me...I'll have the resume and experience to compete...but I worry for the profession. I worry for kids that will be getting 6-figs into debt and might not find something after school.

Do you honestly think that this explosion of schools is a positive thing? That it will go smoothly?

Oh...and no offense or anything...I just think academics need drawn and quartered sometimes...

Looking forward to your response.
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WVUPharm2007 said:
Yeah. I got a question for you.

Why in the name of all things good and holy are you people opening another pharmacy school? What do you honestly think is going to happen in Tennessee when three new pharmacy schools all of a sudden flood the market with pharmacists? I guess you folks were the first me-too school to open up...and you aren't as creepy as the Union people and their much more overt church-school thing...but nonetheless...you and I know darn well that TN doesn't need that many pharmacy schools. Let alone the fact that there are now multiple pharmacy schools in TN that want to be churches on the side...but I digress on that issue....my concern is the fact that you folks have opened a pharmacy school.

Just look at what's happening in Jersey and Eastern PA. There are pharmacists, many of which post on these forums, that can't get a job within a 200 mile radius of their homes. They are doing temp work and maybe getting 10 hours a week. New grads are just having a tough time getting work in many, many locations.

If you folks from these private, for-profit schools keep opening up new programs, you will saturate the market. I remember when I was getting into the profession, there was no such thing as tiers of schools...but right now...I can honesty say there are clear tiers forming. And it's just not me saying this, it's actual academics I have talked to. And let's say tiers form...and I'm hiring a new grad pharmacist in TN...you tell me which tier I'm going to put a school like U of Tennessee in...and what tier I'd put Belmont in...and who is it that I hire....?

It's just like the JD and the MBA. Any Tom, Dick, and Harry opens up a school...and only the grads from the top tiered schools get jobs.

Will that be the PharmD in 15 years? It won't matter to me...I'll have the resume and experience to compete...but I worry for the profession. I worry for kids that will be getting 6-figs into debt and might not find something after school.

Do you honestly think that this explosion of schools is a positive thing? That it will go smoothly?

Oh...and no offense or anything...I just think academics need drawn and quartered sometimes...

Looking forward to your response.
Click to expand...

But, Mikey, haven't you seen the numbers? Yahoo says the pharmacist shortage will only increase over the next few decades, with salaries skyrocketing to 150-160K. Yahoo said so, Mikey! And academia agrees! Now what say you?

:smuggrin:
Passion4Sci said:
Taking bets to see how long it takes Dr. Hobson to reply to this.

I'll start at never.

Anyone care to wager?
Click to expand...

Reply? A day or two. Actually answer his question? Not gonna happen.
 
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WVUPharm2007 said:
Yeah. I got a question for you.

Why in the name of all things good and holy are you people opening another pharmacy school? What do you honestly think is going to happen in Tennessee when three new pharmacy schools all of a sudden flood the market with pharmacists? I guess you folks were the first me-too school to open up...and you aren't as creepy as the Union people and their much more overt church-school thing...but nonetheless...you and I know darn well that TN doesn't need that many pharmacy schools. Let alone the fact that there are now multiple pharmacy schools in TN that want to be churches on the side...but I digress on that issue....my concern is the fact that you folks have opened a pharmacy school.

Just look at what's happening in Jersey and Eastern PA. There are pharmacists, many of which post on these forums, that can't get a job within a 200 mile radius of their homes. They are doing temp work and maybe getting 10 hours a week. New grads are just having a tough time getting work in many, many locations.

If you folks from these private, for-profit schools keep opening up new programs, you will saturate the market. I remember when I was getting into the profession, there was no such thing as tiers of schools...but right now...I can honesty say there are clear tiers forming. And it's just not me saying this, it's actual academics I have talked to. And let's say tiers form...and I'm hiring a new grad pharmacist in TN...you tell me which tier I'm going to put a school like U of Tennessee in...and what tier I'd put Belmont in...and who is it that I hire....?

It's just like the JD and the MBA. Any Tom, Dick, and Harry opens up a school...and only the grads from the top tiered schools get jobs.

Will that be the PharmD in 15 years? It won't matter to me...I'll have the resume and experience to compete...but I worry for the profession. I worry for kids that will be getting 6-figs into debt and might not find something after school.

Do you honestly think that this explosion of schools is a positive thing? That it will go smoothly?

Oh...and no offense or anything...I just think academics need drawn and quartered sometimes...

Looking forward to your response.
Click to expand...

Don't troll his thread. Not nice. No problems with pros/cons discussions outside, but this is not the purpose of his thread. Some users appreciate getting answers to their questions about his school without the hassle of digging through antagonizing rants/remarks.
 
Farmercyst said:
Don't troll his thread. Not nice. No problems with pros/cons discussions outside, but this is not the purpose of his thread. Some users appreciate getting answers to their questions about his school without the hassle of digging through antagonizing rants/remarks.
Click to expand...

And yet I don't see any academics posting in the "Are there too many schools?" threads, do I? Of course not. They would have to actually have to show some sort of introspection. So I have to come to them. How long have we wanted the viewpoint from a person from a new school? Yet it never appears...they are hiding in their own threads. Away from potential criticism. Perhaps he will come back with a well thought-out reply, who knows. I can't know if I don't try. And if he doesn't, he doesn't.

You mods and your rules...
 
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WVUPharm2007 said:
And yet I don't see any academics posting in the "Are there too many schools?" threads, do I? Of course not. They would have to actually have to show some sort of introspection. So I have to come to them. Perhaps he will come back with a well thought-out reply, who knows. I can't know if I don't try. And if he doesn't, he doesn't...

You mods and your rules...
Click to expand...

Just trying to keep the natives from getting restless.
 
Farmercyst said:
Don't troll his thread. Not nice. No problems with pros/cons discussions outside, but this is not the purpose of his thread. Some users appreciate getting answers to their questions about his school without the hassle of digging through antagonizing rants/remarks.
Click to expand...

According to the TOS on SDN, posting anything that directly promotes something outside of SDN is prohibited (which was why "Admissions" got the boot a few months back; he started promoting his own website). Wouldn't this policy include prohibiting an adcom starting a thread to promote their school?
 
Not sure if the thread would be considered promoting their school. So far it seems more like a Q&A. The OP isn't promoting his school per say nor is he encouraging people to go. To me it just seems like he made the thread to answer questions about his school.
 
Kaiter said:
Not sure if the thread would be considered promoting their school. So far it seems more like a Q&A. The OP isn't promoting his school per say nor is he encouraging people to go. To me it just seems like he made the thread to answer questions about his school.
Click to expand...

That's my take.
He's been very cordial and civil. I think it deserves respect that he takes time to post on-site. Sure, it puts his school's name out there. But it is a school of pharmacy and this is a pre-pharmacy forum, I'd think people would appreciate it.
 
You go Mike!

I guess we have seen the last of this guy. A shame because the questions you are asking need to be answered. I doubt he has given any thought to what you said. In fact it is probably the first time he has heard it. A shame because the new for profit schools are hurting our profession. Not as bad as Walgreens and CVS but that is another discussion.
 
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I am absolutely appalled, and it takes a *lot* to do that.

I am so sorry, Dr. Hobson. I wish more admins would participate on websites like this to help those of us with questions. You were so helpful to me on another thread, and please accept my apology on behalf of those here without the ability to show the respect you are due.

I hope that people remember that this community exists only because of mutual respect, and that the vast (silent) majority of us are extremely grateful for Dr. Hobson's completely voluntary insight and help.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Yeah. I got a question for you.

Why in the name of all things good and holy are you people opening another pharmacy school? What do you honestly think is going to happen in Tennessee when three new pharmacy schools all of a sudden flood the market with pharmacists? I guess you folks were the first me-too school to open up...and you aren't as creepy as the Union people and their much more overt church-school thing...but nonetheless...you and I know darn well that TN doesn't need that many pharmacy schools. Let alone the fact that there are now multiple pharmacy schools in TN that want to be churches on the side...but I digress on that issue....my concern is the fact that you folks have opened a pharmacy school.

Just look at what's happening in Jersey and Eastern PA. There are pharmacists, many of which post on these forums, that can't get a job within a 200 mile radius of their homes. They are doing temp work and maybe getting 10 hours a week. New grads are just having a tough time getting work in many, many locations.

If you folks from these private, for-profit schools keep opening up new programs, you will saturate the market. I remember when I was getting into the profession, there was no such thing as tiers of schools...but right now...I can honesty say there are clear tiers forming. And it's just not me saying this, it's actual academics I have talked to. And let's say tiers form...and I'm hiring a new grad pharmacist in TN...you tell me which tier I'm going to put a school like U of Tennessee in...and what tier I'd put Belmont in...and who is it that I hire....?

It's just like the JD and the MBA. Any Tom, Dick, and Harry opens up a school...and only the grads from the top tiered schools get jobs.

Will that be the PharmD in 15 years? It won't matter to me...I'll have the resume and experience to compete...but I worry for the profession. I worry for kids that will be getting 6-figs into debt and might not find something after school.

Do you honestly think that this explosion of schools is a positive thing? That it will go smoothly?

Oh...and no offense or anything...I just think academics need drawn and quartered sometimes...

Looking forward to your response.
Click to expand...



Because there is just too much money in opening a school! Insane tuition (55k+/year) + Non profit status (no taxes)= $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

But don't worry Mikey, the market will correct itself and eventually things will reach equilibrium. Why not apply for an Academic position? All you need to do is read Pharmacotherapy, make a few power point slides to lull people to sleep and Viola! Easy job and good pay. :smuggrin:






Some info on the Pharmacists Shortage/Surplus:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=639184

Think about this, isn't it a big deal if it is the #1 thread under Pharmacy?

Quote of the day:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"........Hmm now where did I see this before?
 
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BelmontUSOP2 said:
SDNers:

The purpose of each thread that exists on SDN is to address a defined issue and to meet the needs of a specific subset of the larger SDN population. This thread was started, as were the hundreds of other currently active and inactive threads that exist alongside it, to meet a defined purpose (provide a forum to ask questions related to Belmont University School of Pharmacy with the guarantee of receiving answers that have veracity).

To that end, I ask that we all also remember that as members (current or desired) of the pharmacy community, we uphold the standards of professionalism, civility and empathy that are the hallmarks of this professional community. The focus of all counselling activity (patient-centered, or other) begins with honoring the value of the other partners in the conversation, listening intently, placing their needs before ones own, and attempting to provide the best advice possible....and, recognizing when to not offer up comment or advice if it falls outside of one's expertise or most-pressing purpose.

This thread's purpose is clear. Other topics, valuable as they might be, have the ability to carve out a dedicated, focused space for interested SDN members to discuss the issues in the depth that they warrant.

I continue to maintain a membership in the SDN community because, as I've stated repeatedly, it provides me a means to repay the mentors that I have had in the past. Their advice and concern have been foundational to my ability to do the many things that I've enjoyed over the past 20+ years as a pharmacy educator.

This thread will continue as long as it addresses a need among the members of this community. I look forward to continuing the productive conversations that typify the vast majority of those in which I participate. Keep the questions about Belmont USOP and your needs coming this way.

Respectfully,

Eric H. Hobson, Ph.D.
Associate Dean
Belmont USOP
Click to expand...

In other words...you refuse to answer Mike's question. So you responded by flapping your arms and dodged the question. I win Passion4Sci's pool.

Here's another good question. Do you think that little of the work ethic and competence of incoming pharmacy students that you have to hold their hand and come to them, offering catered solutions on a silver platter? Whatever happened to the notion that if a student wanted to know something, they had to actually show some initiative and find it out? When I was applying for school, if I wanted more information about a school, I actually went out of my way to call them. I would go to their open house, or I would email/call their admissions office. Pharmacy is a field where things are always changing and evolving. A pharmacist has to know how to properly research information. If a student can't be bothered to even look up the simplest of information, that makes me question just how effective they can be as a pharmacist over the long term. Essentially, by posting this thread, you've told prospective students, prospective DOCTORAL students, no less, "Hey, it's okay to be lazy, we'll come to you!" I suppose next you'll start a thread telling students what to say on their supplemental.

Since you're a Catholic school, bear in mind the old credo that God helps those who help themselves.
 
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IrishHammer said:


Since you're a Catholic school, bear in mind the old credo that God helps those who help themselves.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with it. I guess you do not even read the bible, so please do not assume God is like this or that. One thing I know for sure is that God hate pride. He will help those who is humble.
 
5minutes said:
I have to disagree with it. I guess you do not even read the bible, so please do not assume God is like this or that. One thing I know for sure is that God hate pride. He will help those who is humble.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'm all for getting some answers from Dr. Hobson on this issue (Which I think he did address a little in a reply to DrWrong) but PLEASE do not start this onto a religious tangent.
 
5minutes said:
I have to disagree with it. I guess you do not even read the bible, so please do not assume God is like this or that. One thing I know for sure is that God hate pride. He will help those who is humble.
Click to expand...

God also hates sloth. I can name the seven deadly sins too. Don't try thumping your Bible, I guarantee I know it better than you.
 
IrishHammer said:
In other words...you refuse to answer Mike's question. So you responded by flapping your arms and dodged the question. I win Passion4Sci's pool.

Here's another good question. Do you think that little of the work ethic and competence of incoming pharmacy students that you have to hold their hand and come to them, offering catered solutions on a silver platter? Whatever happened to the notion that if a student wanted to know something, they had to actually show some initiative and find it out? When I was applying for school, if I wanted more information about a school, I actually went out of my way to call them. I would go to their open house, or I would email/call their admissions office. Pharmacy is a field where things are always changing and evolving. A pharmacist has to know how to properly research information. If a student can't be bothered to even look up the simplest of information, that makes me question just how effective they can be as a pharmacist over the long term. Essentially, by posting this thread, you've told prospective students, prospective DOCTORAL students, no less, "Hey, it's okay to be lazy, we'll come to you!" I suppose next you'll start a thread telling students what to say on their supplemental.

Since you're a Catholic school, bear in mind the old credo that God helps those who help themselves.
Click to expand...

who's mike? you mean nike? just do it? aaaaaaaa nevermind i dont give a....who that kid nike mike is.
 
WVU pharm dude - I want to applaud your reply - you said everything I've been thinking since the conception of the ideas of these rediculous amount of pharmacy schools in Tennessee - it makes me sick to my stomach.

I just graduated from UTHSC in Memphis. When I applied to pharmacy school - there was ONE in the state of Tennessee. Now there are FIVE - in a four year span. Belmont, Lipscomb, Union - they are all jokes. ETSU is atleast associated with a Medical school and a campus. Hell, Belmont and Lipscomb are practically across the street from each other - whats the need of two pharmacy schools in the same city which is contains numerous rotation sites from UT students.

I blame ACPE and TPA for sheer ignorance on the part of both pharmacist demand, and their own greed. Most of the administration at these colleges had some tie one way in another to old farts at TPA who are retired and have no care regarding the future of the profession.

These are going to be wasteland schools for students who can't get into a pharmacy school with a decent program. (Sure, I am referring to UT, mostly out of bias, but mostly out of the fact I've got a superb education there, and the faculty I know that precept students from other colleges - P1/p2 whatevs clinical experience are severely dissapointed).

Its pathetic that you can get into a pharmacy school with a 3.0 and a 50% percentile PCAT. Heres your answer.

I mean no disrespect to you OP - I'm sure you're doing your best at your job, and won't acknowledge these responses. But they're here. I've already dished out my blame.

Whatevs, answer your questions, why don't you stick to your music or other programs that you're known for, not a freakin professional doctorate program.

tygacil, pharmD
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Yeah. I got a question for you.

Why in the name of all things good and holy are you people opening another pharmacy school? What do you honestly think is going to happen in Tennessee when three new pharmacy schools all of a sudden flood the market with pharmacists? I guess you folks were the first me-too school to open up...and you aren't as creepy as the Union people and their much more overt church-school thing...but nonetheless...you and I know darn well that TN doesn't need that many pharmacy schools. Let alone the fact that there are now multiple pharmacy schools in TN that want to be churches on the side...but I digress on that issue....my concern is the fact that you folks have opened a pharmacy school.

Just look at what's happening in Jersey and Eastern PA. There are pharmacists, many of which post on these forums, that can't get a job within a 200 mile radius of their homes. They are doing temp work and maybe getting 10 hours a week. New grads are just having a tough time getting work in many, many locations.

If you folks from these private, for-profit schools keep opening up new programs, you will saturate the market. I remember when I was getting into the profession, there was no such thing as tiers of schools...but right now...I can honesty say there are clear tiers forming. And it's just not me saying this, it's actual academics I have talked to. And let's say tiers form...and I'm hiring a new grad pharmacist in TN...you tell me which tier I'm going to put a school like U of Tennessee in...and what tier I'd put Belmont in...and who is it that I hire....?

It's just like the JD and the MBA. Any Tom, Dick, and Harry opens up a school...and only the grads from the top tiered schools get jobs.

Will that be the PharmD in 15 years? It won't matter to me...I'll have the resume and experience to compete...but I worry for the profession. I worry for kids that will be getting 6-figs into debt and might not find something after school.

Do you honestly think that this explosion of schools is a positive thing? That it will go smoothly?

Oh...and no offense or anything...I just think academics need drawn and quartered sometimes...

Looking forward to your response.
Click to expand...

I have no problems with this question.
It's about time somebody didn't hold back and decided to ask a question like this, especially in this type of setting.

Now, if only we had more admission folks on here, then we could have some fun!
 
BelmontUSOP2 said:
SDNers:

The purpose of each thread that exists on SDN is to address a defined issue and to meet the needs of a specific subset of the larger SDN population. This thread was started, as were the hundreds of other currently active and inactive threads that exist alongside it, to meet a defined purpose (provide a forum to ask questions related to Belmont University School of Pharmacy with the guarantee of receiving answers that have veracity).

To that end, I ask that we all also remember that as members (current or desired) of the pharmacy community, we uphold the standards of professionalism, civility and empathy that are the hallmarks of this professional community. The focus of all counselling activity (patient-centered, or other) begins with honoring the value of the other partners in the conversation, listening intently, placing their needs before ones own, and attempting to provide the best advice possible....and, recognizing when to not offer up comment or advice if it falls outside of one's expertise or most-pressing purpose.

This thread's purpose is clear. Other topics, valuable as they might be, have the ability to carve out a dedicated, focused space for interested SDN members to discuss the issues in the depth that they warrant.

I continue to maintain a membership in the SDN community because, as I've stated repeatedly, it provides me a means to repay the mentors that I have had in the past. Their advice and concern have been foundational to my ability to do the many things that I've enjoyed over the past 20+ years as a pharmacy educator.

This thread will continue as long as it addresses a need among the members of this community. I look forward to continuing the productive conversations that typify the vast majority of those in which I participate. Keep the questions about Belmont USOP and your needs coming this way.

Respectfully,

Eric H. Hobson, Ph.D.
Associate Dean
Belmont USOP
Click to expand...


I hope this is not the way Belmont SOP answer to hard questions, to push legitimate questions aside with crafty answers and tricky twists. I must say I am disappointed. I thought as a pharmacists you were suppose to be honest and open about answering questions, but I guess this is not the case.
 
siltears said:
I hope this is not the way Belmont SOP answer to hard questions, to push legitimate questions aside with crafty answers and tricky twists. I must say I am disappointed. I thought as a pharmacists you were suppose to be honest and open about answering questions, but I guess this is not the case.
Click to expand...

To be fair to Dr. Hobson, he is not a pharmacist, he is a desk jockey.

Being well-versed in verbose, confusing lexicon is his bag, baby.
 
Passion4Sci said:
To be fair to Dr. Hobson, he is not a pharmacist, he is a desk jockey.

Being well-versed in verbose, confusing lexicon is his bag, baby.
Click to expand...

LOL....he says he is a professor of pharmacy....can he teach pharmacy without being a pharmacist first? If he isn't that sort of dangerous....? I mean...that's sort of like letting a guy with a random PhD teach med students?
 
5minutes said:
Wow, show some respect people.
Click to expand...

I am showing respect. That is a seriously question asked in a non-serious way. Here is the serious version:

"How comfortable would you be, knowing that your pharmacist went to a school where the professors did not have a PharmD degree?"

And yes, if you notice the OP does not once in his numerous posts say that he has a PharmD. He is a "Associate Dean for Academic Affairs"
"Professor of Pharmacy" and "Ph.D".
If he does indeed have a PharmD degree, than I apologize for my previous critisism.

But I do not think that I can respect him as a pharmacist either way for the following reasons:
~ He is hand feeding his applicant answers. When I was applying to UBC, NO ONE that was on the admissions board was on this forum replying to our questions. Pharmacy is about being able to learn the knowledge that you need by research and hard work. It should not be feed to you like a high school biology class. So I completely agree Tygacil, in pharmacy you need to be able to fend for yourself.
~He does not answer any hard questions. The questions that people do have which do not make his school seem good, he just ignores, or answers in a round-about way that is more political than anything else. For example, when DrWrong asked if there would be spots actually available, his answer is basically: 'I can't say, why don't you find out when you graduate.' and when the question of how his school was going to cause a surplus of pharmacists, he does not address the question.

Yes...I will admit, I have not been as respectful as you might think a future pharmacist should be. However, I believe that I should be able to get answer which concerns my future, without being treated like as if what I have asked is inconsequential and childish. I unlike WVUPharm2007, do have have pharmacy experience as I have not graduated from pharmacy school yet, and so I do not appreciate the fact that the profession that I worked so hard to get into has been ruined because of the surplus of pharmacists that graduated from these new schools because they could not get into one of the pre-existing schools by getting the grades/PCAT scores necessary, so they are taking the easy road.

I do not mean to diss people. I just want some answers. And if you are in a similar situation as me, why do you not want some answers too?
 
siltears said:
LOL....he says he is a professor of pharmacy....can he teach pharmacy without being a pharmacist first? If he isn't that sort of dangerous....? I mean...that's sort of like letting a guy with a random PhD teach med students?
Click to expand...

I thought he is the Associate Dean of the School of Pharmacy, and got a Ph.D, not a Pharm.D., from U of Tennessee. He has never said, to my knowledge, what his Ph.D is in.

Maybe I am missing something on him, but he starts every post with "From the corner office" and such, it sounds more like he's more on the admissions side of things rather than actually teaching pharmacy.
 
Passion4Sci said:
I thought he is the Associate Dean of the School of Pharmacy, and got a Ph.D, not a Pharm.D., from U of Tennessee. He has never said, to my knowledge, what his Ph.D is in.

Maybe I am missing something on him, but he starts every post with "From the corner office" and such, it sounds more like he's more on the admissions side of things rather than actually teaching pharmacy.
Click to expand...

English. Do a google search.
 
ffpickle said:
English. Do a google search.
Click to expand...

With a focus in rhetoric and composition, no less. This guy was educated to be a bull****ter, and now he's involved in a pharmacy school.
 
You guys are something else. It doesn't matter if the guy has a Ph.D in PE. The last I checked, he is not in the pharmacy thread answering clinical questions. The fact is he is helping students who are considering attending Belmont. Can he answer why a lot of pharmacy schools are opening up? I don 't know; however, I'm sure most of us here know why these schools are opening. It's for the money. Shame on these schools. Wait a minute. Now that I think about it, profitable schools are businesses. Even the school you are attending is making money off you right now. Shocking!

Anyways, this guy should not be obligated to speak on behalf of all new pharmacy schools opening. He is doing what many of us would do, and that is find a career where he can work to support himself and his family. I like the fact that he is taking out time from his schedule to help people who are considering Belmont.

I share the same concern you guys have about the profession; however, we are fighting the wrong guy here. We should be grinding our ax with those who handle accreditation. We should be shaking our fist at those students that choose this profession solely for the money.


This thread was not made for this type of discussion. We can all be mad and yell at this guy, but it will not change anything. Schools will continue to open. Lets not waste unnecessary energy targeting this guy for doing what this board is meant to do, and that is help people get into pharmacy school.

Sorry for the rant...
 
dahopeful said:
you guys are something else. It doesn't matter if the guy has a ph.d in pe. The last i checked, he is not in the pharmacy thread answering clinical questions. The fact is he is helping students who are considering attending belmont. Can he answer why a lot of pharmacy schools are opening up? I don 't know; however, i'm sure most of us here know why these schools are opening. It's for the money. Shame on these schools. Wait a minute. Now that i think about it, profitable schools are businesses. Even the school you are attending is making money off you right now. Shocking!

Anyways, this guy should not be obligated to speak on behalf of all new pharmacy schools opening. He is doing what many of us would do, and that is find a career where he can work to support himself and his family. I like the fact that he is taking out time from his schedule to help people who are considering belmont.

I share the same concern you guys have about the profession; however, we are fighting the wrong guy here. We should be grinding our ax with those who handle accreditation. We should be shaking our fist at those students that choose this profession solely for the money.


This thread was not made for this type of discussion. We can all be mad and yell at this guy, but it will not change anything. Schools will continue to open. Lets not waste unnecessary energy targeting this guy for doing what this board is meant to do, and that is help people get into pharmacy school.

Sorry for the rant...
Click to expand...

+1
 
dahopeful said:
You guys are something else. It doesn't matter if the guy has a Ph.D in PE. The last I checked, he is not in the pharmacy thread answering clinical questions. The fact is he is helping students who are considering attending Belmont. Can he answer why a lot of pharmacy schools are opening up? I don 't know; however, I'm sure most of us here know why these schools are opening. It's for the money. Shame on these schools. Wait a minute. Now that I think about it, profitable schools are businesses. Even the school you are attending is making money off you right now. Shocking!

Anyways, this guy should not be obligated to speak on behalf of all new pharmacy schools opening. He is doing what many of us would do, and that is find a career where he can work to support himself and his family. I like the fact that he is taking out time from his schedule to help people who are considering Belmont.

I share the same concern you guys have about the profession; however, we are fighting the wrong guy here. We should be grinding our ax with those who handle accreditation. We should be shaking our fist at those students that choose this profession solely for the money.


This thread was not made for this type of discussion. We can all be mad and yell at this guy, but it will not change anything. Schools will continue to open. Lets not waste unnecessary energy targeting this guy for doing what this board is meant to do, and that is help people get into pharmacy school.

Sorry for the rant...
Click to expand...

finally someone making some sense. the dude with the red font and some other dudes, go start a revolution, go OUT and DO something about it instead of complaining on an INTERNET FORUM. please. :sleep::sleep:
 
Passion4Sci said:
Yeah, I totally want to Google search random SDN people. That's just a little creepy. If he'd wanted us to know specifically what his doctorate was in, he'd have told us.

Boundaries. Do a Google search.
Click to expand...

Random? Boundaries? He gave his exact name, institution, and position at that institution. He chose to forfeit his anonymity.
 
dahopeful said:
You guys are something else. It doesn't matter if the guy has a Ph.D in PE. The last I checked, he is not in the pharmacy thread answering clinical questions. The fact is he is helping students who are considering attending Belmont. Can he answer why a lot of pharmacy schools are opening up? I don 't know; however, I'm sure most of us here know why these schools are opening. It's for the money. Shame on these schools. Wait a minute. Now that I think about it, profitable schools are businesses. Even the school you are attending is making money off you right now. Shocking!

Anyways, this guy should not be obligated to speak on behalf of all new pharmacy schools opening. He is doing what many of us would do, and that is find a career where he can work to support himself and his family. I like the fact that he is taking out time from his schedule to help people who are considering Belmont.

I share the same concern you guys have about the profession; however, we are fighting the wrong guy here. We should be grinding our ax with those who handle accreditation. We should be shaking our fist at those students that choose this profession solely for the money.


This thread was not made for this type of discussion. We can all be mad and yell at this guy, but it will not change anything. Schools will continue to open. Lets not waste unnecessary energy targeting this guy for doing what this board is meant to do, and that is help people get into pharmacy school.

Sorry for the rant...
Click to expand...


Best post I've read in a while:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
rhythmspirit said:
finally someone making some sense. the dude with the red font and some other dudes, go start a revolution, go OUT and DO something about it instead of complaining on an INTERNET FORUM. please. :sleep::sleep:
Click to expand...

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
rhythmspirit said:
GOOD POINT (if the numbers are true). This is the kind of criticism this person should be getting, not about new pharmacy schools opening up. This is an answer i'd like to see
Click to expand...

All great revolutions start somewhere, right?

Besides, you don't know what people are/are not doing during their "non-interwebz" time. You simply just wanted to be an ass for the sake of it.
 
Passion4Sci said:
All great revolutions start somewhere, right?

Besides, you don't know what people are/are not doing during their "non-interwebz" time. You simply just wanted to be an ass for the sake of it.
Click to expand...

You know he can't and won't address those questions posted by WVU. You know how it is - whatever he says people will take as him speaking on behalf of his university. Just like if you were posting as a soldier, people would take it as the definitive opinion of the whole Army and thus you cannot make statements.
 
ValeUC said:
You know he can't and won't address those questions posted by WVU. You know how it is - whatever he says people will take as him speaking on behalf of his university. Just like if you were posting as a soldier, people would take it as the definitive opinion of the whole Army and thus you cannot make statements.
Click to expand...

Poor analogy. If it were a student posting this thread, I would agree with you, but this is an administrator who is dodging questions. That's like a General in the army refusing to answer.

George W. Bush even thinks this guy is good at dodging tough questions.
 
IrishHammer said:
Poor analogy. If it were a student posting this thread, I would agree with you, but this is an administrator who is dodging questions. That's like a General in the army refusing to answer.

George W. Bush even thinks this guy is good at dodging tough questions.
Click to expand...

Lol - Poor analogy? Have you ever been in the military? You have no idea what I'm talking about.
 
ValeUC said:
Lol - Poor analogy? Have you ever been in the military? You have no idea what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

I get the correlation you're trying to make. The opinion of one does not necessarily reflect the opinion of all. However, an adiministrator possesses more authority in a university than a soldier does in the army. So even if his opinion might not be a unanimous consensus, he's a friggin' Associate Dean...his opinion still carries some weight.
 
IrishHammer said:
I get the correlation you're trying to make. The opinion of one does not necessarily reflect the opinion of all. However, an adiministrator possesses more authority in a university than a soldier does in the army. So even if his opinion might not be a unanimous consensus, he's a friggin' Associate Dean...his opinion still carries some weight.
Click to expand...

Because he is an Associate Dean he cannot answer those questions. His words carry much more weight than a student. Another thing to consider is that he most likely had no part in bringing the school into operation, therefore how could he answer the questions being asked? If you are not part of an operation how can you address questions about it?
 
ValeUC said:
Because he is an Associate Dean he cannot answer those questions. His words carry much more weight than a student. Another thing to consider is that he most likely had no part in bringing the school into operation, therefore how could he answer the questions being asked? If you are not part of an operation how can you address questions about it?
Click to expand...

I suppose you're right. Academia is out of touch with the reality of pharmacy, but a Ph.D. is English is most likely even farther out of touch. I'm sure the school gave him some line of B.S. about "there's gonna be jobs falling out of the sky for decades to come and everything is sunshine and lollipops and rainbows", and he bought it hook, line, and sinker, never stopping to think twice about it save for Mike's question.
 
bugg said:
:confused:Ummm....Why do you think Dr. Hobson is not part of the Belmont "operation?" He does work there, so he should be able to answer questions about it.
Click to expand...

I think Vale was referring to when the school first announced plans to open. Odds are good that a Ph.D. in English isn't going to play much of a role in that. He was more than likely brought on board after the fact. To that end, he can't say what anyone was thinking when the idea was first pitched.
 
IrishHammer said:
I think Vale was referring to when the school first announced plans to open. Odds are good that a Ph.D. in English isn't going to play much of a role in that. He was more than likely brought on board after the fact. To that end, he can't say what anyone was thinking when the idea was first pitched.
Click to expand...

Yep.
 
Passion4Sci said:
All great revolutions start somewhere, right?

Besides, you don't know what people are/are not doing during their "non-interwebz" time. You simply just wanted to be an ass for the sake of it.
Click to expand...

I don't hear anything on the news about it, so, no, they ain't doing...sh....anything to start a revolution "during their non-interwebz time". When I hear something on the news, that's when I know their revolution has started. Sure go start a revolution on an internet forum, good for you. want a cookie to go with your forum Smilies? maybe useful for getting some crumbs on your keyboard so the mice, roaches, and ants will type out your revolution for you when you're sleeping.
 
This thread has gone so far off topic it astounds me. Here's a guy who wanted to try to help people with the daunting task of applying to pharmacy school. Sure he is pitching his own school, but what on earth is wrong with that?

Did WVU bring up some interesting points? Sure. But at the same time the argument is way out of line on this thread. I have to wonder what his agenda really is. It can't be that he wants a real answer to the question he posed. Any one who isn't completely naive would know that an Associate Dean isn't going to be able to answer the question of "Why are so many new schools opening up?" But really, what could the answer be. Is it money? Probably. But what's wrong with that? I would wager that more than 95% of pharmacists and pharmacy students(within the last ten to fifteen years) got into the field because of the paycheck. There is nothing wrong with wanting a stable career that pays well or in making money on providing the education to people who want to get into that type of career.

As for the comment about pharmacists not being able to find jobs, I don't buy it. I would wager that in any part of the country if you go into careerbuilder and do a search for pharmacy, there will be pharmacist jobs pop up. It is whether you are willing to work the particular jobs that are open. I'm sorry that you have discoverd that health care is 24/7 and that you don't get to work Mon-Fri 8a-5p.

I don't buy for a second that he "worries for the profession". He worries about his paycheck and about squeezing employers for sign on bonuses. He worries that he won't be able to coast in his job anymore. He worries that someone who is willing to work will get a job over someone who just sits there and complains on internet forums about how bad his profession is.

It seems awefully convienent to me that he is already a pharmacist and is suddenly complaing that others shouldn't be allowed in. I would almost guarentee that if he didn't get accepted into a program when he was applying due to there "not being enough room" that he would be on some forum crying about how not enough schools are open.

The bottom line is that we are a supply/demand country. There is a demand for pharmacists. Schools are opening to meet that demand. If you do not like that this is happening, take it up with someone who actually has some control over the situation. I'm guessing that Dr Hobson isn't that guy.

I was accepted into two fully accredited schools, and Belmont(which is going through the accredidation process). I chose Belmont because I felt I would get a better education at this school. I'm sorry that you are upset that there will be competition for your job. Too bad. I'm coming into the field, and I don't care if you like it or not.

As to those people who are complaining about Dr. Hobson not answering the question posed to him directly, I would ask you a direct question. What is your agenda? What is your goal in posting such derogatory posts? I know you're not dumb enough to actually believe that you are asking because you want an Associate Dean to admit that schools are in it for the money. So, what is the real reason?

To those who read this far into the thread and actually have questions, ask them. Dr. Hobson is very good at answering questions. There are also students who will log on and do their best to answer your questions.

To Dr. Hobson, I would like to applaud your professionalism in the face of such adversity. You took the high road sir, and I thank you for it.
 
ohlmin said:
This thread has gone so far off topic it astounds me. Here's a guy who wanted to try to help people with the daunting task of applying to pharmacy school. Sure he is pitching his own school, but what on earth is wrong with that?

Did WVU bring up some interesting points? Sure. But at the same time the argument is way out of line on this thread. I have to wonder what his agenda really is. It can't be that he wants a real answer to the question he posed. Any one who isn't completely naive would know that an Associate Dean isn't going to be able to answer the question of "Why are so many new schools opening up?" But really, what could the answer be. Is it money? Probably. But what's wrong with that? I would wager that more than 95% of pharmacists and pharmacy students(within the last ten to fifteen years) got into the field because of the paycheck. There is nothing wrong with wanting a stable career that pays well or in making money on providing the education to people who want to get into that type of career.

As for the comment about pharmacists not being able to find jobs, I don't buy it. I would wager that in any part of the country if you go into careerbuilder and do a search for pharmacy, there will be pharmacist jobs pop up. It is whether you are willing to work the particular jobs that are open. I'm sorry that you have discoverd that health care is 24/7 and that you don't get to work Mon-Fri 8a-5p.

I don't buy for a second that he "worries for the profession". He worries about his paycheck and about squeezing employers for sign on bonuses. He worries that he won't be able to coast in his job anymore. He worries that someone who is willing to work will get a job over someone who just sits there and complains on internet forums about how bad his profession is.

It seems awefully convienent to me that he is already a pharmacist and is suddenly complaing that others shouldn't be allowed in. I would almost guarentee that if he didn't get accepted into a program when he was applying due to there "not being enough room" that he would be on some forum crying about how not enough schools are open.

The bottom line is that we are a supply/demand country. There is a demand for pharmacists. Schools are opening to meet that demand. If you do not like that this is happening, take it up with someone who actually has some control over the situation. I'm guessing that Dr Hobson isn't that guy.

I was accepted into two fully accredited schools, and Belmont(which is going through the accredidation process). I chose Belmont because I felt I would get a better education at this school. I'm sorry that you are upset that there will be competition for your job. Too bad. I'm coming into the field, and I don't care if you like it or not.

As to those people who are complaining about Dr. Hobson not answering the question posed to him directly, I would ask you a direct question. What is your agenda? What is your goal in posting such derogatory posts? I know you're not dumb enough to actually believe that you are asking because you want an Associate Dean to admit that schools are in it for the money. So, what is the real reason?

To those who read this far into the thread and actually have questions, ask them. Dr. Hobson is very good at answering questions. There are also students who will log on and do their best to answer your questions.

To Dr. Hobson, I would like to applaud your professionalism in the face of such adversity. You took the high road sir, and I thank you for it.
Click to expand...

Ohlmin, it is so obvious that you are sucking up big time! That's besides the point.

I am still waiting for an answer for my legitimate question

"I have a question concerning the acceptance rate of Belmont. Pharmcas showed there were 100 student accepted out of 550 interviewed. It is about 18%, while most schools have a much higher acceptance rate after getting interviewed (Creighton, and Auburn have exceptionally high acceptance rate). Doesn't Belmont consider that most of us are tight on money? I think it is inconsiderate of Belmont to schedule a lot of interviews knowing that 82% of us will be rejected."
 
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