Chances of Residency if I go to SGU?

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Unis

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I am not quite sure if this is the right place to post and if it's not please direct me.

I was wondering if someone can help me with understanding what my chances are of getting a residency in the U.S. if I go to SGU on the islands. I *think* I'm most interested in hematology/oncology or pediatric hematology/oncology (of course that could change). I just need to know if I have a chance to find a residency if I go to SGU. Please if anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it.
 
those are very competitive.. your chances are pretty slim to none if i know this correctly... and to save everyone time let me continue on this thread through its natural progression:

-Don't go to the Carib
-Yea it's terrible
-Going to the Carib is worse than DO
-No going to Carib is better, esp if you go to SGU or Ross.
-Statistics pulled out
-Opposing stats pulledo ut
-Stats debated
-Why do people care about the letters behind their names, they'll make terrible doctors
 
I don't have a quick answer, but another forum for finding information about Caribbean Schools is valuemd.com .

bleargh said:
those are very competitive.. your chances are pretty slim to none if i know this correctly... and to save everyone time let me continue on this thread through its natural progression:

-Don't go to the Carib
-Yea it's terrible
-Going to the Carib is worse than DO
-No going to Carib is better, esp if you go to SGU or Ross.
-Statistics pulled out
-Opposing stats pulledo ut
-Stats debated
-Why do people care about the letters behind their names, they'll make terrible doctors
Click to expand...

Psychic 🙂
 
bleargh said:
those are very competitive.. your chances are pretty slim to none if i know this correctly... and to save everyone time let me continue on this thread through its natural progression:

-Don't go to the Carib
-Yea it's terrible
-Going to the Carib is worse than DO
-No going to Carib is better, esp if you go to SGU or Ross.
-Statistics pulled out
-Opposing stats pulledo ut
-Stats debated
-Why do people care about the letters behind their names, they'll make terrible doctors
Click to expand...


Haha, nice. Basically, don't do it. Your chances are p*ss poor of graduating with your MD and all the more of getting a U.S. residency in anything, much less the field of your choice.
 
apumic said:
Haha, nice. Basically, don't do it. Your chances are p*ss poor of graduating with your MD and all the more of getting a U.S. residency in anything, much less the field of your choice.
Click to expand...

Pretty harsh words.

Is the graduation rate of SGU similar to US MD schools? - NO
SGU and other profitable med schools in the Caribbean accept plenty of students that are not smart enough to pass.

If you go to the Caribbean, you need to bust your behind to do well. If you perform extremely well and score very well on your step exams, you stand a good chance of getting a primary care residency somewhere in the US.

The fields you mentioned are fellowships after residency. You can get into internal medicine and pediatrics residencies through SGU if you do well. Fellowships like oncology, pulmonology, etc. you have to apply to during your second year of residency. How you do during residency helps decide if you can land a fellowship in the field you want.
 
Why are the doctors from SGU bad when they do clinical training in the U.S? I guess I just don't understand that.

If I am not mistaken, then, if I want to focus on hematology/oncology my chances on getting those fellowships depend on my residency performance not on attending SGU, right?

Are primary care residencies the only ones available to SGU students?
 
Unis said:
Why are the doctors from SGU bad when they do clinical training in the U.S? I guess I just don't understand that.

If I am not mistaken, then, if I want to focus on hematology/oncology my chances on getting those fellowships depend on my residency performance not on attending SGU, right?

Are primary care residencies the only ones available to SGU students?
Click to expand...

Who says the SGU doctors have poor clinical skills?

It would help land you a better fellowship in Heme/Onc if you go to a "name" residency, but you could get in from any residency program if you perform well, do research, get good rec letters, etc. Just like applying for anything else.

Primary care residencies aren't the only ones available, but if you apply for anything competitive, you need scores above and beyond what US MD/DO applicants will have. There is a bias against Carib schools that is hard to break.
 
Unis said:
Are primary care residencies the only ones available to SGU students?
Click to expand...

There was a neurosurgery match last year, although upon a Google search I found a proceedings of the meeting at a school and they pass on that candidate for some reason. He looks pretty happy on Facebook, though.

https://baysgu35.sgu.edu/ERD/2009/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1

Yes, most of them are IM/FP/Peds (holy god there's a lot of IM). However, that also makes up most of US schools. The only difference is that there's a higher relative PCP %.

I also see plenty of Psychiatry, Gen. Surgery, Anesthesiology. There's also many EM, OB/Gyn. The two neurosurgery, two ortho, one neurology, and one nuclear medicine looks pretty lonely.

There are only like three Path matches, and NO rad/derm/ENT/plastic matches for the easy lifestyles... (I'm seriously considering dermatopathology and this looks bleak).

==

Looking at the 2010 match, I see six diagnostic radiology (AWESOME) in PGY-2, a ton of Neurology PGY-2, the same sad few PGY-2 in ortho and path, and many PGY-2 in PM&R. I'm not sure if it's policy to match only PGY-2 to rad or neuro, but if there are no SGU rad/neuro interns, it means you'd have to work your ass off during intern year to get accepted into a rad/neuro program.

I'm not too savvy with the match process yet, but this is what I observed.

You can see a lot more interesting stuffs up in the higher PGY, but I have no idea what those means :x
 
Morsetlis said:
There was a neurosurgery match last year, although upon a Google search I found a proceedings of the meeting at a school and they pass on that candidate for some reason. He looks pretty happy on Facebook, though.

https://baysgu35.sgu.edu/ERD/2009/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY1&Count=-1

Yes, most of them are IM/FP/Peds (holy god there's a lot of IM). However, that also makes up most of US schools. The only difference is that there's a higher relative PCP %.

I also see plenty of Psychiatry, Gen. Surgery, Anesthesiology. There's also many EM, OB/Gyn. The two neurosurgery, two ortho, one neurology, and one nuclear medicine looks pretty lonely.

There are only like three Path matches, and NO rad/derm/ENT/plastic matches for the easy lifestyles... (I'm seriously considering dermatopathology and this looks bleak).

==

Looking at the 2010 match, I see six diagnostic radiology (AWESOME) in PGY-2, a ton of Neurology PGY-2, the same sad few PGY-2 in ortho and path, and many PGY-2 in PM&R. I'm not sure if it's policy to match only PGY-2 to rad or neuro, but if there are no SGU rad/neuro interns, it means you'd have to work your ass off during intern year to get accepted into a rad/neuro program.

I'm not too savvy with the match process yet, but this is what I observed.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that 800-1000 students are in each year at SGU. That is many times more than any US medical school. Overall, only 50% of IMGs from any school match to any residency. Google "charting match outcomes" if you don't believe me.
 
Last edited:
TexasPhysician said:
Pretty harsh words.

Is the graduation rate of SGU similar to US MD schools? - NO
SGU and other profitable med schools in the Caribbean accept plenty of students that are not smart enough to pass.
Click to expand...

Harsh? Yes, but also realistic.

The OP asked if it was a good idea. The answer is simply "no." Why beat around the bush on the topic? The OP doesn't want to handicap him/herself unnecessarily, I would suppose, so I'd advise the OP to do whatever it takes to attend a US MD or DO-granting institution.
 
Unis said:
Why are the doctors from SGU bad when they do clinical training in the U.S? I guess I just don't understand that.

If I am not mistaken, then, if I want to focus on hematology/oncology my chances on getting those fellowships depend on my residency performance not on attending SGU, right?

Are primary care residencies the only ones available to SGU students?
Click to expand...

Google your questions. Basically, the hospital facilities SGU and other Carib schools train students at (in the US) are often sub-par and very much hit or miss. As a result, clinical training may or may not be sufficient. I also recall reading that their support from faculty is dubious at best. Furthermore, because the students attending SGU and other Carib schools are, on average, significantly weaker than most med students (as far as science background, previous life experience, etc.), clinical programs may not invest as much into them and later residency directors are less likely to consider their training to be equivalent to that of a US-trained med student. Basically, going the Carib route means you will be forever cursed with the IMG stigma.

It also costs more to go Carib and those schools have very high fail rates, so in any group of you 1st year, look to your right and left and realize that if neither of the people next to you fail out w/ tens of thousands of dollars in debt, it's going to be you. (The fail rates vary around 50% depending on the school.)
 
bleargh said:
i thought i ended this.
Click to expand...

Nope. You simply predicted what was about to happen. We had to actually carry it out in order to ensure your prophecy came to pass.

You also didn't let us know which side was going to "win" so we had to find out for ourselves.
 
bleargh said:
those are very competitive.. your chances are pretty slim to none if i know this correctly... and to save everyone time let me continue on this thread through its natural progression:

I did not know that heme/onc is so competitive. The three traditional competitive IM fellowships are cardio, GI and allergy/immunology.
Click to expand...
 
bleargh said:
those are very competitive.. your chances are pretty slim to none if i know this correctly... and to save everyone time let me continue on this thread through its natural progression:

-Don't go to the Carib
-Yea it's terrible
-Going to the Carib is worse than DO
-No going to Carib is better, esp if you go to SGU or Ross.
-Statistics pulled out
-Opposing stats pulledo ut
-Stats debated
-Why do people care about the letters behind their names, they'll make terrible doctors
Click to expand...
Actually, Heme/Onc isn't really all that competitive among IM Fellowships.
Going to SGU, you will be able to get into an IM residency, but maybe not a good University based one with a solid fellowship placement history.
 
DrBowtie said:
Actually, Heme/Onc isn't really all that competitive among IM Fellowships.
Going to SGU, you will be able to get into an IM residency, but maybe not a good University based one with a solid fellowship placement history.
Click to expand...

Heme/On = Wilson. Nobody wants to be Wilson!
 
Don't do carribean schools because it limits your options. Only use as a backup plan C when you don't get into a DO or MD school and you've tried at least twice. Most carib schools put a lot of people into IM and those that do go into tougher specialties are very slim and even then they usually go through a trial period where the hospital evaluates your abilities for a year or two before you actually start say an ortho residency. Basically, it's a lot of trouble that you'd not have to face if you go to US schools.

ONLY ONLY ONLY as a LAST OPTION should you consider Carib. And this is coming from a person that almost went Carib so I've done my research and I'm not just flaming cause I"m a US med student looking down on Carib schools.
 
If I fail UCSD this year I'm gonna go to the Caribbean to join the Vietnamese Caribbean MD club in San Diego. Primary care, here I come.
 
As more US allo and osteo schools open their doors and pump out more docs, and with residency slots more or less frozen, it is safe to conclude that whatever an offshore med school grad's chances are at landing a US residency, they will be lower in 4+ years than they are today.
 
Morsetlis said:
...
Looking at the 2010 match, I see six diagnostic radiology (AWESOME) in PGY-2, a ton of Neurology PGY-2, the same sad few PGY-2 in ortho and path, and many PGY-2 in PM&R. I'm not sure if it's policy to match only PGY-2 to rad or neuro, but if there are no SGU rad/neuro interns, it means you'd have to work your ass off during intern year to get accepted into a rad/neuro program.
...
Click to expand...

Um, rads and neuro are "advanced" programs. Meaning you generally try to match into a prelim (intern) year and an advanced program for your second year in the same match. There are very very few categorical rad/neuro programs and most people don't do that route, so there are very few rad/neuro interns by definition -- regardless of whether you went to SGU or Harvard. It simply doesn't work that way. In most cases you do a prelim year for PGY-1 and then start rads/neuro/derm/optho, etc in PGY-2. So PGY-2 is the NORMAL first year of such residencies. So no, you won't be trying to get accepted to a rad/neuro program as an intern and no you won't be "working your ass off during intern year to get accepted into a rad/neuro program" (although you will be working your ass off for totally unrelated reasons during that hellish year). You will have ideally matched into your PGY-2 year along with your prelim year in the match. That being said, you have to bear in mind that match lists lie. When dealing with offshore schools in particular, not everyone starting in the same year came out of the same class. so that small handful of good matches you say may actually be coming out of multiple years worth of classes, who for whatever reason got hung up for 1 or more years. So while 6 rads matches in a year may seem great, it may really be 6 matches from 4 years of graduating classes, some of whom took a bit longer road. not so great.

The key issue with carribean schools is attrition. They accept a ton of people, take their money, and only advance those who prove themselves, and fail out the rest. Some get "held back", or are forced to pass qualifying exams before the schools allow them to sit for boards, etc. US med schools don't do this. If you get in, 90+% are going to become doctors in 4 years. No carribean school brags anything close to this. So it's a great second chance if you need a shot and are ready to really work hard and accomplish what you couldn't in undergrad. But a waste of time and money for everyone else.
And no, you aren't going to have much of a shot at the competitive residencies from an offshore school. The small handful that make it give false hope to the huge majority who won't. In most cases the offshore programs feed people into the primary care fields, often snagging the residencies in the less desirable geographical regions and at the smaller community hospitals. Lots of opportunities for budding psychiatrists, family practitioners, internists, obstetricians and the like. Which is fine, you still get to be a doctor if you make it through. But you are kidding yourself if you think things like rads or ortho are realistic. They are very long shots for the very few who perform unbelievably in this second chance. (Bearing in mind that many people who went offshore didn't perform all that well in undergrad, which is why offshore became a tempting option).
Heck, the competitive specialties aren't exactly chip shots for the US med students either, but these folks go in with a leg up over the offshore crowd.
 
flip26 said:
As more US allo and osteo schools open their doors and pump out more docs, and with residency slots more or less frozen, it is safe to conclude that whatever an offshore med school grad's chances are at landing a US residency, they will be lower in 4+ years than they are today.
Click to expand...

No question. This is, in fact, part of the reason med schools are being told to increase their class sizes without any corresponding increase in residency slots. The AAMC has, since 2005, been issuing press releases to the effect that the US schools should fulfil US residency needs and not have to resort to offshore places which aren't accredited by the LCME. In the last few years they actually seem to be working to effect this proposal.
 
Law2Doc said:
That being said, you have to bear in mind that match lists lie. When dealing with offshore schools in particular, not everyone starting in the same year came out of the same class. so that small handful of good matches you say may actually be coming out of multiple years worth of classes, who for whatever reason got hung up for 1 or more years. So while 6 rads matches in a year may seem great, it may really be 6 matches from 4 years of graduating classes, some of whom took a bit longer road. not so great.
Click to expand...

Additionally, on the "lying" front - I'd like to know how many of the surgery and IM matches are categorical vs prelim - the requirements to get a surgery prelim year at a lot of places are basically having a medical degree and a pulse.
 
dannyboy1 said:
I did not know that heme/onc is so competitive. The three traditional competitive IM fellowships are cardio, GI and allergy/immunology.
Click to expand...

Not trying to hijack, but will someone explain to me why allergy/immunology is among the most competitive fellowships? I was under the impression that fellowship competitiveness correlated to expected salary, and allergy/immunology is on the lower side?

To the original question: There are ~25k residency spots, which congress approves and pays for. With the deficit balloning and the current politcal power-grab, congress seems unlikely to expand the number of residencies. As US medical schools raise their enrollment numbers to try to combat the physician shortage, all IMG/FMG will be croweded out. This may not matter for this year's match, or next year's match, but in 15 years there may only be several hundred non US-MDs matching.

*Several articles here: http://aamc.org/workforce/

Nice new pic bleargh.
 
JonBonesJones said:
Not trying to hijack, but will someone explain to me why allergy/immunology is among the most competitive fellowships? I was under the impression that fellowship competitiveness correlated to expected salary, and allergy/immunology is on the lower side?
Click to expand...

Lifestyle? I think a lot of people are beginning to realize that making a ton of money is useless without having the time to spend it.
 
DrBowtie said:
Actually, Heme/Onc isn't really all that competitive among IM Fellowships.
Going to SGU, you will be able to get into an IM residency, but maybe not a good University based one with a solid fellowship placement history.
Click to expand...
my understanding was that fellowships were generally competitive to get into to start with. i apologize if i'm wrong.
 
JonBonesJones said:
Not trying to hijack, but will someone explain to me why allergy/immunology is among the most competitive fellowships? I was under the impression that fellowship competitiveness correlated to expected salary, and allergy/immunology is on the lower side?

To the original question: There are ~25k residency spots, which congress approves and pays for. With the deficit balloning and the current politcal power-grab, congress seems unlikely to expand the number of residencies. As US medical schools raise their enrollment numbers to try to combat the physician shortage, all IMG/FMG will be croweded out. This may not matter for this year's match, or next year's match, but in 15 years there may only be several hundred non US-MDs matching.

*Several articles here: http://aamc.org/workforce/

Nice new pic bleargh.
Click to expand...

Traditionally Allergy/Immunology was competitive because there were very few spots. However, it is a dying field in my opinion. I would stay far away from that field.
 
TexasPhysician said:
Traditionally Allergy/Immunology was competitive because there were very few spots. However, it is a dying field in my opinion. I would stay far away from that field.
Click to expand...

But then who's gonna treat lupus?!?
 
SGU is definitely more focused on producing graduates to primary care specialties.
 
tennisball80 said:
SGU is definitely more focused on producing graduates to primary care specialties.
Click to expand...
I would disagre. It isn't really in their mission statement like some stateside rural schools, it just happens that most of the grads end up in those specialties since they are the least competitive.

They aren't focused on it, its just the nature of residency spot economics.
 
TexasPhysician said:
Traditionally Allergy/Immunology was competitive because there were very few spots. However, it is a dying field in my opinion. I would stay far away from that field.
Click to expand...

Not to thread hijack, but why do you think allergy/immuno is a dying field?

Allergies are definitely not going away (if anything they're getting much worse, especially food allergies, likely due to having such clean environments at home). The field is relatively heavy on diagnostic procedures that can be performed by nurses (allergy tests, breathing tests, etc.) meaning a supervising allergist who primarily works with patients in a consultation type setting can do very well in practice.

Immunology is also necessary as autoimmune disorders remain some of the least well understood and treatable disorders out there. They can often be managed, but there remains a great deal of research and need for immunologists. Finally, the FDA has recently approved the first cancer immunotherapy, and many more are likely to follow. Modulation of the immune system to fight cancer is a field likely explode in the next 40 years if you ask me.
 
Now I can't figure out the difference between Rheumatologists and Immunologists 🙁
 
Morsetlis said:
Now I can't figure out the difference between Rheumatologists and Immunologists 🙁
Click to expand...

Rheumatology = medical treatment of joints/soft connective tissue (i.e. lots of arthritis stuff)

Immunology = treatment of immune disorders and administering immunotherapy
 
DoctwoB said:
Not to thread hijack, but why do you think allergy/immuno is a dying field?

Allergies are definitely not going away (if anything they're getting much worse, especially food allergies, likely due to having such clean environments at home). The field is relatively heavy on diagnostic procedures that can be performed by nurses (allergy tests, breathing tests, etc.) meaning a supervising allergist who primarily works with patients in a consultation type setting can do very well in practice.

Immunology is also necessary as autoimmune disorders remain some of the least well understood and treatable disorders out there. They can often be managed, but there remains a great deal of research and need for immunologists. Finally, the FDA has recently approved the first cancer immunotherapy, and many more are likely to follow. Modulation of the immune system to fight cancer is a field likely explode in the next 40 years if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Medications are becoming more effective for allergies and with less side-effects. Most family practitioners can treat allergies effectively now. In the next few years, it will just get easier.

Immunology is being picked up by rheumatologists and general IM.

Allergy/Immunology's turf has been 100% consumed by other fields as far as I'm concerned.
 
All your base are belong to PA's soon nuff.
 
Unis said:
I am not quite sure if this is the right place to post and if it's not please direct me.

I was wondering if someone can help me with understanding what my chances are of getting a residency in the U.S. if I go to SGU on the islands. I *think* I'm most interested in hematology/oncology or pediatric hematology/oncology (of course that could change). I just need to know if I have a chance to find a residency if I go to SGU. Please if anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Sample size of one, but I work in a hospital, and one of the Hem/Oncs that just got privileges went to SGU. After people talking about the Carib schools the other day, I decided to look into it in regards to my hospital. I believe there were 5 from Ross, all of which were IM, either general or a subspecialty. We had somewhere between 5 and 10 from SGU, most of which were IM (general or subspecialty). There was actually one radiologist and an anesthesiologist (though it looked like one of them transferred to a US MD school at some point), an Ob/Gyn and an EM doc.

We have a lot more DOs, in a lot more specialties, many of which are from PCOM. Way too many to list.

In short, it's possible. Difficult, but possible.
 
Unis said:
I am not quite sure if this is the right place to post and if it's not please direct me.

I was wondering if someone can help me with understanding what my chances are of getting a residency in the U.S. if I go to SGU on the islands. I *think* I'm most interested in hematology/oncology or pediatric hematology/oncology (of course that could change). I just need to know if I have a chance to find a residency if I go to SGU. Please if anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Check the SGU website for the names of the students and the residency locations that they have been accepted to. However, some hospitals just don't accept Caribbean MDs, which does not have anything to do with the qualification of the students. There are some other reasons for that. Go to SGU if you don't get into US med schools.
 
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