What are your top 3 reasons for med school?What are your top 3 worries/concerns?

DrArete said:

I'm a non trad/broken arrow here, about to start a post bacc.

Here are my top three reasons:

1. Desire to help people
2. Prestige
3. Make use of intellectual capability


Top three worries/concerns:

1. Grind of 10 years of training, to be followed by more of same unless I do mission/NGO work
2. The changing nature of medicine and the extremely negative comments I have heard from many doctors and residents. It is also not encouraging for me to hear from a friend who matched up a a Harvard hospital and is now miserable doing nightfloat.
3. The feeling that I would not be able to balance being a doctor with a family/outside interests. To put it another way, I fear that I can be a good doctor OR a balanced person, but not both.

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1. Money
2. Power
3. Prestige
4. Chicks

Top 3 reasons:
1. Fascination with the field of medicine
2. Want to be in a profession where I could help people
3. Financial Security (Many say this isn't a good reason, but I wanted to be able to provide for my wife and daughter and future kids and be able to travel with them and help them pay for college.)

Worries:
1. Government meddling in medicine
2. Training is long and gruesome. (I'm a 2nd year medical student. The work and tons of studying itself doesn't bother me, but being away from my family and missing out on some family vacations does)
3. That I'll get sued

Literally, this question has been asked over 3 times in the past month alone.

DrArete said:

Hmmm...I dont know about that.

You can make more money, quicker, doing many things.

The chicks? LOL. No way. Most women, who actually know what the time constraints many docs face are like, would much rather have someone with more free time.

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Two questions for you.

1. How can you make more money, more quickly? Tell me a job that would GUARANTEE you a salary of at least $150,000 starting. And don't give me something like be the CEO of Apple or something. Give me a job that you could reasonably get. And don't just say go into business and hope to get lucky. http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm Virtually all starting salaries are above $150,000, and if you specialize over $200,000.
2. I've seen plenty of doctors graduate from residency and marry smoking hot chicks. Friend of my graduated from med school at 32 and married one of the hottest 22 year olds I've ever seen. Chicks may not dig pre-med's or med students, but when they start dating you are already a doctor with a huge income, they like it. Time is a concern, but you are busiest in med school and residency.

THat being said, chicks aren't why I went into med school. Money played a factor, but was not one of my top two reasons. But I do think people who don't even consider the financial aspect of a career are just silly. I mean, do what you love, but medicine isn't the only thing I love. And a lot of other things I love cost money (golf, travel, kids), which medicine will provide.

DrArete said:

Hmmm...I dont know about that.

You can make more money, quicker, doing many things.

The power? Well, you do have some power, but it is more responsibility than power, because you can't just do whatever you want without serious consequences.

The prestige? Definitely.


The chicks? LOL. No way. Most women, who actually know what the time constraints many docs face are like, would much rather have someone with more free time.


Also, you didnt exactly follow the format I suggested.

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You severely underestimate the amount of girls who would kill to be with a doctor.

Sorry to pick on you but the statement "you can make more money quicker doing many things", makes me upset for various reasons

It is true that you can make more money doing other things but the chances in success are extremely low. What other career are you pretty much guaranteed six figures?? Yes you can be a CEO, but there are plenty of people who are on the CEO track and never become CEO's. A few anecdotes do not justify that statement.

In investing people are looking at the reward/risk ratio. Medicine by far has the highest reward to risk ratio.

There's a general consensus in medicine that you shouldn't do it for the money. Yes you shouldn't do it "only" for the money.

If you study even basic economics, you'll see that the profit seeking motive makes things better not worse.

Just my two cents.

DrArete said:

Hmmm...I dont know about that.

You can make more money, quicker, doing many things.

The power? Well, you do have some power, but it is more responsibility than power, because you can't just do whatever you want without serious consequences.

The prestige? Definitely.


The chicks? LOL. No way. Most women, who actually know what the time constraints many docs face are like, would much rather have someone with more free time.


Also, you didnt exactly follow the format I suggested.

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masturhu said:

Sorry to pick on you but the statement "you can make more money quicker doing many things", makes me upset for various reasons

It is true that you can make more money doing other things but the chances in success are extremely low. What other career are you pretty much guaranteed six figures?? Yes you can be a CEO, but there are plenty of people who are on the CEO track and never become CEO's. A few anecdotes do not justify that statement.

In investing people are looking at the reward/risk ratio. Medicine by far has the highest reward to risk ratio.

There's a general consensus in medicine that you shouldn't do it for the money. Yes you shouldn't do it "only" for the money.

If you study even basic economics, you'll see that the profit seeking motive makes things better not worse.

Just my two cents.

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Lots of people like the OP like to say this, but none of them can back it up and tell us how we can make as much money, pretty much guaranteed.

Perforin said:

Two questions for you.

1. How can you make more money, more quickly? Tell me a job that would GUARANTEE you a salary of at least $150,000 starting. And don't give me something like be the CEO of Apple or something. Give me a job that you could reasonably get. And don't just say go into business and hope to get lucky. http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm Virtually all starting salaries are above $150,000, and if you specialize over $200,000.
2. I've seen plenty of doctors graduate from residency and marry smoking hot chicks. Friend of my graduated from med school at 32 and married one of the hottest 22 year olds I've ever seen. Chicks may not dig pre-med's or med students, but when they start dating you are already a doctor with a huge income, they like it. Time is a concern, but you are busiest in med school and residency.

THat being said, chicks aren't why I went into med school. Money played a factor, but was not one of my top two reasons. But I do think people who don't even consider the financial aspect of a career are just silly. I mean, do what you love, but medicine isn't the only thing I love. And a lot of other things I love cost money (golf, travel, kids), which medicine will provide.

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Jobs that guarantee that you make more money than doctors:
Big law, investment banking, consulting, orthodontistry, other dental specialties...
(At least, for people who are smart enough to get into these fields)

Jobs where you can possibly make more money than doctors:
Any field, literally. Maybe except "UPS driving" and "garbage collection." You can rise up in any field and make much more than doctors can.

randombetch said:

Jobs that guarantee that you make more money than doctors:
Big law, investment banking, consulting, orthodontistry, other dental specialties...
.

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Most doctors I know make more than lawyers. Do you have any salary statistics on "big law", whatever that is.

Show me some proof that the average investment banker or consultant makes more than the average doctor or specialist.

You just did what everybody else does that try to say people can make more money doing something else. Throw out some vague job and not back it up with any statistics or proof.

You got me on orthodontics, but that in my opinion is basically a surgical field.

Check out this list from Forbes 2009

Seems like the average highest paying jobs are by in large physicians.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_highest_paying_jobs

I rest my case.

All that being said, if money is your #1 reason to go into medicine, you will probably not be happy. Training sucks, and it steals about 10 years from the prime of your life when you won't have any money, won't be able to travel, and your weekends are usually ruined. Huge sacrifice. It really sucks to see your friends who didn't go into medicine start buying houses and going on vacations and crap. It will pay off in the end, but you will be absolutely miserable if you don't go into medicine because you enjoy it and want to help people.

The top strategy consulting companies and investment banks have higher average salaries than medicine for most of their analysts/consultants (i've worked for both) and also you have to look at the overall economics. You're starting in those fields immediately after ug with starting salaries in the 80-150k range, while med students are paying to go to school for four years and residency for 3-8. With 7-10 years experience and probably a MBA in there it'd be surprising for someone still in ib/consulting to be making mid 6 figures.

drizzt3117 said:

The top strategy consulting companies and investment banks have higher average salaries than medicine for most of their analysts/consultants (i've worked for both) and also you have to look at the overall economics. You're starting in those fields immediately after ug with starting salaries in the 80-150k range, while med students are paying to go to school for four years and residency for 3-8. With 7-10 years experience and probably a MBA in there it'd be surprising for someone still in ib/consulting to be making mid 6 figures.

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That's part of my point though. You said those are the "top" ib companies. Those jobs probably aren't too easy to get, or maybe they are. I'm talking about averages here, and I'm saying the average physician makes more than the average investment banker. I'm not saying the average physician makes more than an investment banker at the top firm in the country. Show me some data about AVERAGE investment banker salaries.

randombetch said:

Jobs that guarantee that you make more money than doctors:
Big law, investment banking, consulting, orthodontistry, other dental specialties...
(At least, for people who are smart enough to get into these fields)

Jobs where you can possibly make more money than doctors:
Any field, literally. Maybe except "UPS driving" and "garbage collection." You can rise up in any field and make much more than doctors can.

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1. "Big Law" isn't a field. It's the very top percentile of law grads each year that get into big firms. The very top percentile of doctors (earnings-wise) probably make as much as these people.

2. Plenty of IBankers don't make it, a job in finance doesn't "guarantee" anything. If you're a young analyst for a big bank you are probably having a great time right now, though.

DrArete said:

There are several fields where you will come out ahead financially.

In finance, consulting, or law, are the easiest examples.

Using average stats is misleading.

Med school students are vastly more intelligent than the average MBA or JD student.

Really an above average med school student in intellectual terms, is an elite level top 5 or ten MBA or JD candidate.

The smart ones who want money, get a BA in economics, work a couple years, get an MBA, then work more, all the time living very frugally, and investing salary and delaying marriage.

Also, about the chicks thing, there are plenty of ways to get a silly 22 year old to marry you that dont involve years of training.

Furthermore, the experience of people I know who have married younger women who are their intellectual inferiors but are easy on the eyes, is uniformly disastrous.

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Once again, you are just spouting off your own opinion with no facts. I at least gave you some evidence. I love this debate, but I am a guy that enjoys facts, not some random opinions.

Perforin said:

That's part of my point though. You said those are the "top" ib companies. Those jobs probably aren't too easy to get, or maybe they are. I'm talking about averages here, and I'm saying the average physician makes more than the average investment banker. I'm not saying the average physician makes more than an investment banker at the top firm in the country. Show me some data about AVERAGE investment banker salaries.

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Getting a job in IB or strategy consulting is easier than getting in med school, except for one important difference being that school name and prestige are one of the most important factors in candidate selection. Some firms only recruit from top undergrads, so it might not even be possible to get a job there unless you went to one. Grades etc, are less emphasized though. As far as getting in the top firms, to be honest, almost anything in NYC for IB will get you to there. Strategy consulting is a little tougher simply because there's only a couple real strategy firms in the industry (McKinsey, BCG, Bain, maybe Booz-Allen), with a number of quasi-strategy firms like management/strategy consulting arms of D&T, PWC, etc. I think the top applicants to med school would be top candidates for IB/strategy too, though.

Good luck getting accurate salary information, especially in this day and age. Keep in mind that 60-75% of an investment banker's salary is from bonuses. With people's attitudes about Wall Street and bonuses right now, I doubt you're going to find any data on this.

If you're trying to make the argument that you can make more money in medicine as a mediocre candidate, then I can't say I've ever thought about that but I suppose it's true.

you guys realize that after you earn your MD/finish residency, it is fairly easy to get consulting and even banking jobs. I'd never do it, but i have heard that it can be done. for those who are interested: http://www.nonclinicaljobs.com/

JokerMD said:

you guys realize that after you earn your MD/finish residency, it is fairly easy to get consulting and even banking jobs. I'd never do it, but i have heard that it can be done. for those who are interested: http://www.nonclinicaljobs.com/

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I'd certainly consider going back to McKinsey after a few years in practice, or consulting/working in medical device. Business and medicine overlap quite a bit.

DrArete said:

Sure, a rare doctor will make 500K or more a year by running a successful private practice, but a doctor with that level of intelligence and business acumen would probably have kicked ass and taken names in the business world if he/she had been working since age 22.

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One thing you have to understand about this is that the skill set between medicine and business doesn't necessarily overlap that much. Most people I've met in the field of medicine don't have anywhere near the networking skills they need to be very successful in business, but that's just my $0.02.

DrArete said:

Sure, a rare doctor will make 500K or more a year by running a successful private practice, but a doctor with that level of intelligence and business acumen would probably have kicked ass and taken names in the business world if he/she had been working since age 22.

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PLENTY of doctors make over 500k. Just had a personal friend of mine take up neuroradiology position in a group and his STARTING salary was $650,000.

500K for people who specialize is not a stretch. Not everyone is that lucky, but I wouldn't say it is rare to see doctors make that much. Family physicians yes, but specialists no.

Top 3:
Human body's amazing
Excitement
Propensity for the sciences

Concerns:
Lack of $$$
Study vs. xtra employment time
Sleep

"I became a doctor for the same four reasons that everybody does: chicks, money, power, and chicks."
-Dr. Perry Cox

Perforin said:

PLENTY of doctors make over 500k. Just had a personal friend of mine take up neuroradiology position in a group and his STARTING salary was $650,000.

500K for people who specialize is not a stretch. Not everyone is that lucky, but I wouldn't say it is rare to see doctors make that much. Family physicians yes, but specialists no.

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Haha so true... there are a lot of docs that make over 500k that i've seen. But not everyone makes it up there... it takes a very special and unique individual to be able to climb that high. Anyway I digress...

Drexon said:

Haha so true... there are a lot of docs that make over 500k that i've seen. But not everyone makes it up there... it takes a very special and unique individual to be able to climb that high. Anyway I digress...

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Meaning...radiologists, opthomalogists, anaestheiologists, dermatologists and surgical specialists?

randombetch said:

Jobs that guarantee that you make more money than doctors:
Big law, investment banking, consulting, orthodontistry, other dental specialties...
(At least, for people who are smart enough to get into these fields)

Jobs where you can possibly make more money than doctors:
Any field, literally. Maybe except "UPS driving" and "garbage collection." You can rise up in any field and make much more than doctors can.

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funny you should mention this, because there's a much recirculated thread on SDN where someone rudimentarily compared UPS drivers to doctors... and the UPS driver wins

1. Brain surgery
2. Chicks
3. Hot nurses
4. Hot physical therapists

bleargh said:

funny you should mention this, because there's a much recirculated thread on SDN where someone rudimentarily compared UPS drivers to doctors... and the UPS driver wins

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Yeah how does he keep becoming the one we compare people against? This has come up more than once.

Narmerguy said:

Yeah how does he keep becoming the one we compare people against? This has come up more than once.

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http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/109258/usps-thinks-out-of-the-box?mod=career-leadership

This recent article.

The usual: chicks, money, power, and more chicks.

docforsure said:

1. Brain surgery
2. Chicks
3. Hot nurses
4. Hot physical therapists

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there is a hospital right next to my undergrad, huge hospital, the nurses there are either fat or old, what ur thinking does not exist, only in shows like....mercy or scrubs lol.

Second that. Also, docs are not known for their great personalities, sorry to say. But, on the other hand, I'm guessing it's not so much the "chicks" themselves that people with this motivation want so much as what they can get from the chicks. Of course, they will just about always end up with chicks who are mostly concerned about what they can get from the rich doctor type (who looks for chicks who will be drawn to their money and actually feels GOOD about that!). So, I guess it all works out in the end- everybody gets their money's worth.

DrArete said:

Hmmm...I dont know about that.

The chicks? LOL. No way. Most women, who actually know what the time constraints many docs face are like, would much rather have someone with more free time.

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Perforin said:

Two questions for you.

1. How can you make more money, more quickly? Tell me a job that would GUARANTEE you a salary of at least $150,000 starting. And don't give me something like be the CEO of Apple or something. Give me a job that you could reasonably get. And don't just say go into business and hope to get lucky. http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm Virtually all starting salaries are above $150,000, and if you specialize over $200,000.

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In order to be equal, the starting salary wouldn't need to be equal. There are people who reasonably graduate with business degrees and earn $75K+ out the door at their first job. Docs have 4 more years of school (paying up to $200,000 let alone not making any $$$) and then 4 more years of residency making about $45,000-$50,000. Considering the time value of money and the reality that a job well done = raises and promotions in the business world, it's definitely not unreasonable that someone with a business degree could do two years in a great job, get their MBA paid for by their company, and in the four years docs spend in med school, that B-school student makes $300,000 without incurring any debt and gets an MBA that takes their annual up into 6 figures. That's while the med school student is incurring $120-200K debt. The MBA now spends the next 4 years at 6 figure salary (let's go minimum and say $100,000) investing and promoting their career. By the time the med student is an attending (first "big" paycheck), the MBA has been in their profession for 8 years (~700,000 earned/invested by this point), is established with no debt + good investments and pulling in 6 figures easily, they've also been able to have a nice car and nice place to live during this whole time rather than being a "starving student" for the extra 4 years. This is not an exaggeration nor does it depend on going to a top school. Any decent accounting, CIS, finance, or supply chain management major could do this and it would be routine. An unmotivated or untalented business school grad, of course, wouldn't be able to do this which is why you don't see every b-school grad making that kind of $$$- but someone as determined in a business related career as pre-meds/med students are about medicine would be able to do this without blowing anyone's mind that they did.

If you don't start earning $200K until 8 years in and then end up paying approximately a full year's salary in student loan debt + interest, you don't have that salary for about a decade whereas the business grad can earn about $700,000 in that time. You'd take 3 years of full $200,000 salary to begin to catch up (though they'd potentially be earning $300,000 during that time, too)... and, if the business grad invested wisely, good luck!

Bottom line is that what you call "$200K starting salary", a business grad would call "$200K... 10 years later".

2. I've seen plenty of doctors graduate from residency and marry smoking hot chicks. Friend of my graduated from med school at 32 and married one of the hottest 22 year olds I've ever seen. Chicks may not dig pre-med's or med students, but when they start dating you are already a doctor with a huge income, they like it.

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Umm... "smoking hot chicks" and "when you are a doctor with a huge income, they like it".

Perforin said:

Two questions for you.

1. How can you make more money, more quickly? Tell me a job that would GUARANTEE you a salary of at least $150,000 starting. And don't give me something like be the CEO of Apple or something. Give me a job that you could reasonably get. And don't just say go into business and hope to get lucky. http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm Virtually all starting salaries are above $150,000, and if you specialize over $200,000.

Click to expand...

In order to be equal, the starting salary wouldn't need to be equal. There are people who reasonably graduate with business degrees and earn $75K+ out the door at their first job. Docs have 4 more years of school (paying up to $200,000 let alone not making any $$$) and then 4 more years of residency making about $45,000-$50,000. Considering the time value of money and the reality that a job well done = raises and promotions in the business world, it's definitely not unreasonable that someone with a business degree could do two years in a great job, get their MBA paid for by their company, and in the four years docs spend in med school, that B-school student makes $300,000 without incurring any debt and gets an MBA that takes their annual up into 6 figures. That's while the med school student is incurring $120-200K debt. The MBA now spends the next 4 years at 6 figure salary (let's go minimum and say $100,000) investing and promoting their career. By the time the med student is an attending (first "big" paycheck), the MBA has been in their profession for 8 years (~700,000 earned/invested by this point), is established with no debt + good investments and pulling in 6 figures easily.

This is not an exaggeration nor does it depend on going to a top school. Any decent accounting, CIS, finance, or supply chain management major could do this and it would be routine. An unmotivated or untalented business school grad, of course, wouldn't be able to do this which is why you don't see every b-school grad making that kind of $$$- but someone as determined in a business related career as pre-meds/med students are about medicine would be able to do this without blowing anyone's mind that they did. When you do start earning that $200K, it would take you more than 3 years' full salary to start to catch up to the business grad... but they'll be earning that $300K during those 3 years, so you still won't catch up. If they've invested wisely, good luck!

Bottom line: What you call "$200K starting salary", a business grad would call making "$200K 10 years later" with nothing ($$$) to show for it in the meanwhile (8 years).

2. I've seen plenty of doctors graduate from residency and marry smoking hot chicks. Friend of my graduated from med school at 32 and married one of the hottest 22 year olds I've ever seen. Chicks may not dig pre-med's or med students, but when they start dating you are already a doctor with a huge income, they like it.

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Umm... "smoking hot chicks" and "when you are a doctor with a huge income, they like it".

randombetch said:

Jobs where you can possibly make more money than doctors:
Any field, literally. Maybe except "UPS driving" and "garbage collection." You can rise up in any field and make much more than doctors can.

Click to expand...

It's hard to get above doctors in the field of medicine, in general. Sure, if you're a nurse and go get your DNP, you may end up making as much as a PCP, eventually, but if you're a med tech, a respiratory therapist, etc... unless you get into the administration of the hospital, it's hard to get up even to the level of docs.

Perforin said:

2. I've seen plenty of doctors graduate from residency and marry smoking hot chicks. Friend of my graduated from med school at 32 and married one of the hottest 22 year olds I've ever seen. Chicks may not dig pre-med's or med students, but when they start dating you are already a doctor with a huge income, they like it. Time is a concern, but you are busiest in med school and residency.

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This makes me sad. I just hope that if I end up marrying another doc that he won't be as shallow as you all seem to be right now.

I normally hang out on the non-trad forum, but stumbled upon this thread. The guy below knows what he is talking about. You need to account for the opportunity cost for all those years that you don't make money as a physician (when most people do).

Making six figures (if you are moderately intelligent) is not that hard. I graduated in 2005 and make about $150k a year (I did not spend any time earning a graduate degree, and only spent two years gaining experience to break the six figure mark) so by the time the average medical school student starts residency they are at least $300k behind me in terms of earnings (counting only the two years I made 150k) and in much more debt. Through residency they fall further behind me and finally after many, many years as an attending they surpass me.

I think the best advice is do what you are good at. There are people that will pay you a lot of money to do that. If you are good at what you do, you'll be in the top 10% of earnings in your field (easily making beyond six figures).

One of the biggest reasons for my desire to pursue medicine is diversity of work and a desire to work with children again. I'm interested in pediatrics and working with the under served (I did a summer program in inner-city Baltimore during college). I've saved up money so I won't have much debt graduating and I realize my earnings won't be that much higher in general pediatrics that they are now, but I'm following my heart.

My only concerns are the MCAT and USMLE (and my organic chemistry II final in a few weeks). Academics are hard to come back to after being out of school for a bit.

As far as girls, you either have it or you don't. Being a physician may attract more girls (I doubt it personally), but the wrong type of girls (those after you for your money). I was fortunate to meet someone when I was making very little money who loved me for me (and not for my profession).

Finally, to the person that said that the average medical student is brighter than the average M.B.A. or J.D., you haven't been around many medical students, have you? I remember sitting in my classes in college and wondering how some of my classmates would ever cut it as doctors and they are now practicing as average doctors I'd imagine, although they went to top tier medical schools (I pray I never end up with my fate in their hands). Like every profession, there are those that are good, and bad. You can't compare apples and oranges. People pursuing an M.B.A. were interested in business, J.D. in law and M.D. or D.O. in medicine, you can't compare them.

Galen2010 said:

In order to be equal, the starting salary wouldn't need to be equal. There are people who reasonably graduate with business degrees and earn $75K+ out the door at their first job. Docs have 4 more years of school (paying up to $200,000 let alone not making any $$$) and then 4 more years of residency making about $45,000-$50,000. Considering the time value of money and the reality that a job well done = raises and promotions in the business world, it's definitely not unreasonable that someone with a business degree could do two years in a great job, get their MBA paid for by their company, and in the four years docs spend in med school, that B-school student makes $300,000 without incurring any debt and gets an MBA that takes their annual up into 6 figures. That's while the med school student is incurring $120-200K debt. The MBA now spends the next 4 years at 6 figure salary (let's go minimum and say $100,000) investing and promoting their career. By the time the med student is an attending (first "big" paycheck), the MBA has been in their profession for 8 years (~700,000 earned/invested by this point), is established with no debt + good investments and pulling in 6 figures easily.

This is not an exaggeration nor does it depend on going to a top school. Any decent accounting, CIS, finance, or supply chain management major could do this and it would be routine. An unmotivated or untalented business school grad, of course, wouldn't be able to do this which is why you don't see every b-school grad making that kind of $$$- but someone as determined in a business related career as pre-meds/med students are about medicine would be able to do this without blowing anyone's mind that they did. When you do start earning that $200K, it would take you more than 3 years' full salary to start to catch up to the business grad... but they'll be earning that $300K during those 3 years, so you still won't catch up. If they've invested wisely, good luck!

Bottom line: What you call "$200K starting salary", a business grad would call making "$200K 10 years later" with nothing ($$$) to show for it in the meanwhile (8 years).

Umm... "smoking hot chicks" and "when you are a doctor with a huge income, they like it".

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Every Doctor's wife I met was really hot. And at my school the nursing students are all hot.

It isn't that hard to go to medical school considering about Half that apply make it in.

If you're in Cali it is very hard to get in which is why so many people in this board are from Cali and complain about how unfair it is.

There are plenty of people who get below 30s and have 3.5's and below that get into U.S M.D schools.

Also you make the same salary if you go into D.O schools which aren't as difficult.

The average medstudent isn't vastly more intelligent than other fields they just study a lot for their classes and the MCAT. That doesn't necessarily correlate to real world success.

Also being a doctor allows you obtain more chicks not because they make more money but because you become more confident in yourself since you are in a position that is looked upon well in society as well as being a leader and telling patients what they need to do to loose weight or telling them that they have a terminal disease or cancer.

After you do this it suddenly doesn't become such an obstacle to ask that cute girl out for dinner.

mvenus929 said:

It's hard to get above doctors in the field of medicine, in general. Sure, if you're a nurse and go get your DNP, you may end up making as much as a PCP, eventually, but if you're a med tech, a respiratory therapist, etc... unless you get into the administration of the hospital, it's hard to get up even to the level of docs.



This makes me sad. I just hope that if I end up marrying another doc that he won't be as shallow as you all seem to be right now.

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I wouldn't call myself shallow. I got married as a pre-med when my wife didn't even know if I would make it into medical school. I'm just saying a lot of hot girls like money, and friends of mine have married hot girls right out of residency. Whether or not the marriages will last, or if the girls just married them for money, we'll see. But I wouldn't consider pointing out that many girls will marry guys for money as shallow. I'm actually glad that I got married as a pre-med so I don't have to worry about whether my wife married me for money. She was actually not happy that I was a pre-med, having family members go through the whole medical school thing.

Brigade4Radiant said:

Every Doctor's wife I met was really hot. And at my school the nursing students are all hot.

It isn't that hard to go to medical school considering about Half that apply make it in.

If you're in Cali it is very hard to get in which is why so many people in this board are from Cali and complain about how unfair it is.

There are plenty of people who get below 30s and have 3.5's and below that get into U.S M.D schools.

Also you make the same salary if you go into D.O schools which aren't as difficult.

The average medstudent isn't vastly more intelligent than other fields they just study a lot for their classes and the MCAT. That doesn't necessarily correlate to real world success.

Also being a doctor allows you obtain more chicks not because they make more money but because you become more confident in yourself since you are in a position that is looked upon well in society as well as being a leader and telling patients what they need to do to loose weight or telling them that they have a terminal disease or cancer.

After you do this it suddenly doesn't become such an obstacle to ask that cute girl out for dinner.

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I do not think what you stated is true. Medical School admission process is the toughest when compared to other fields (i.e. law, dentistry, pharmacy, etc). Although it is true some students get in with less than 30 on the MCAT and less than 3.5 GPA, these students are outstanding in many other areas (research, community service, etc). You are right saying about the half the students that apply get in, but if you look at the credentials of those apply, those credentials are not far different than those that are accepted. In other words, no one applies unless they think they have a shot at getting in as the medical school admission process is expensive.

amine2086 said:

I do not think what you stated is true. Medical School admission process is the toughest when compared to other fields (i.e. law, dentistry, pharmacy, etc). Although it is true some students get in with less than 30 on the MCAT and less than 3.5 GPA, these students are outstanding in many other areas (research, community service, etc). You are right saying about the half the students that apply get in, but if you look at the credentials of those apply, those credentials are not far different than those that are accepted. In other words, no one applies unless they think they have a shot at getting in as the medical school admission process is expensive.

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I'd also like to point out that medicine has a HUGE weeding out process, arguable more than any other field. The amounts of people who are pre-meds their freshman year are astonishing. This number goes down for various reasons...

So saying that half the people get in doesn't paint an accurate picture of how hard it is to get in.

I actually would argue that it isn't harder than any other field per se (more requirements, yes; harder, no). Virtually every one I know that wanted to go to medical school has gotten into medical school (getting into a medical school is not hard; getting into a US allopathic medical school, especially in California or a US top 20 is (same with any other profession (top 20 law school for example)). The question is how much do you really want it? I've found the reason so many people are weeded out is because more so that any other profession you really have to want it (and way too many parents pressure their kids that are not very good at science to pursue medicine; these kids never stood a chance).

Going to a Tier 1 or Tier 2 law school is equivalent to a US M.D. program, a tier 3 to a D.O. school (in terms of stats) and a tier 4 to a foreign school. With that assumption, it probably works out to be equally competitive to pursue medicine, law or business.

There was one applicant accepted with a GPA between 2.6 and 2.79 and an MCAT between 5 and 14 (I'm sure every one here would say that is impossible). The student with average grades has a decent shot (the higher the stats the better of course): http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

masturhu said:

I'd also like to point out that medicine has a HUGE weeding out process, arguable more than any other field. The amounts of people who are pre-meds their freshman year are astonishing. This number goes down for various reasons...

So saying that half the people get in doesn't paint an accurate picture of how hard it is to get in.

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To go
1. Dream profession, something I've always wanted to do and that I will find immensely satisfying.
2. I get to help people.
3. Prestige/Money

Concerns:
1. Not getting into medical school.
2. Not getting into a residency I want.
3. The stress ends up killing me.

mspeedwagon said:

Going to a Tier 1 or Tier 2 law school is equivalent to a US M.D. program, a tier 3 to a D.O. school (in terms of stats) and a tier 4 to a foreign school. With that assumption, it probably works out to be equally competitive to pursue medicine, law or business.

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Cite plz.
I'm going to openly say that a person going to a DO school is going to still get paid more then half the tier 1 class.
Where as the otherway around a tier 3 person has very little chance of getting big.

eh i am seeing alot of "helping people" stuff here. i have nothing against you guys, but doesn't the patient also help you by indirectly paying you? seems to me they cancel each other out. if you actually want to help people, volunteering and community service with no thoughts of putting it on your resume or MD app are truely helping people. or donate money to your country. saying "get to help people" as a physician is prob like i work in starbucks, serving customer coffee just the way they wanted is also "helping people". except only doctors are being paid more lol.

i don't mean anything offensive in anything i have said, just food for though i guess.