Anothe Army/AF/Navy

jmcfa002 said:

I've searched the forums, tried checking out the webistes, and tried contacting recruiters already. Only the army recruiter has gotten back so far. I'm interested in them for loan repayment mainly. I have two questions.

Is it better to attempt to sign up before starting school, or wait until p2-3 or after graduation?

Can you do a residency still?

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If you know that military is the route you want to take, my suggestion is to sign up before starting school. They have programs for students in health profession that will help pay for school, but they are competitive especially with the surplus of pharmacists/students. I will most likely sign with the air force after graduation and I wish I'd known of these programs.

Yup, definitely agree with the above. If you know you want in, get them to pay for it in advance (I sure wish I had done it that way).

As for residencies, you can do residencies through the Air Force (they are pretty competitive I believe) but they can be done. There are not too many places they can be done as far as I know, and you may have to put in a year or two before they let you do the residency.

definitely do it ahead of time if that's what you want to do

jmcfa002 said:

I'm not positive I want to do it, I feel like it could limit the possibilities upon graduation. I know I don't want to stand behind the retail counter the rest of my life. If I am able to get into the competitive program, it would be nice to be a debt free pharmacist in a few years, but I don't it to narrow my options.

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the sky is the limit in what you can do in the military...not really sure how this "narrows" things for you...

theunderminer said:

Yup, definitely agree with the above. If you know you want in, get them to pay for it in advance (I sure wish I had done it that way).

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What other programs are there besides the HPSP? And do they provide the same kind of benefits, like a stipend? I'm a p1 and will be applying this summer to AF and Navy, but if there are other opportunities then I'd like to know about them to increase my chances.

jmcfa002 said:

It seemed like it to me, but then again I know very little about it. The things I've considered so far are Oncology, Research, and Nuclear. I guess all of those would be possible through the military. I haven't even started school yet, these are things I've thought about but I don't really have a good idea yet

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Let me put it to you this way...if you join the military, you can be a pharmacist for 20+ years, get out and retire and enjoy your pension check. While you're at it, you will be given assignments that are totally different than what you would ever anticipate. Some people are cut out for that, some arn't. Most people just starting off will practice mainly as a pharmacist. As you progress, you become more of a leader and setting the example. There are various routes you can go down, like specializing in oncology, research and nuclear like you mentioned, but there are things too like becoming a logistics specialist, working for NATO, becoming a branch consultant, managing other careers besides pharmacy, deputy commander of a hospital, working for the DOD in medical planning and the list goes on and on and on.

HPSP is a great tool that the AF offers to students. Generally the Army and Navy offer much better tuition reimbursement after you graduate but this can change from year to year. I just read in another thread that one of our brand new AF pharmacists received a hell of a sign on bonus in conjunction with tuition reimbursement. It just depends if you know what you want to do right away or not and there is absolutely nothing wrong with just riding out pharmacy school and then deciding. Who knows, you may hate pharmacy and want to get out after the first year. (Ive seen that happen too!) Good luck!

inquirer89 said:

What other programs are there besides the HPSP? And do they provide the same kind of benefits, like a stipend? I'm a p1 and will be applying this summer to AF and Navy, but if there are other opportunities then I'd like to know about them to increase my chances.

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I am not sure about other programs beside HPSP, but there are a lot of benefits with HPSP as Caverject mentioned above. Tuition reimbursement + stipend = awesome. Wish I had done it.

theunderminer said:

I am not sure about other programs beside HPSP, but there are a lot of benefits with HPSP as Caverject mentioned above. Tuition reimbursement + stipend = awesome. Wish I had done it.

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Yeah the HPSP programs are very attractive and I'll be starting my application this summer before my p2 year. But I just wanted to know more about the programs HUSOP2010 was talking of, because I had never heard of such (signing before pharmacy school).

jmcfa002 said:

talked to the army today, you have to be in rotc for a year before you are elligable for a scholarship that pays tuition ahead of time

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For general commission - I believe this is correct... However, health professions are a separate animal altogether.

According to this site :LINK , one year of ROTC is NOT required.

Did you speak with an AMEDD recruiter or general recruiter?

I don't know of any military program that pays for Pharmacy, there might be one though. ROTC normally only pays for a bachelor's degree before you're required to fulfill your military commitment. The military does have loan repayment option as a possible enlistment bonus - last I remember I think the max was 40k but it pays off student loans you already have and/or student loans you take out in the future. With a doctoral level professional degree normally you would be able to get a commission as starting out as an O3 - that's a Captain in the Army AF or MC or a senior grade LT in the Navy. I'm not sure about pharmacists though... pharmacists I remember working at military hospitals were civilians, and in the clinics docs, PA's and others do much of the work that pharmacists would normally do. Military medicine follows different rules than the rest of the world when it comes to facilities that only treat actual service members.

b1234 said:

I don't know of any military program that pays for Pharmacy, there might be one though. ROTC normally only pays for a bachelor's degree before you're required to fulfill your military commitment. The military does have loan repayment option as a possible enlistment bonus - last I remember I think the max was 40k but it pays off student loans you already have and/or student loans you take out in the future. With a doctoral level professional degree normally you would be able to get a commission as starting out as an O3 - that's a Captain in the Army AF or MC or a senior grade LT in the Navy. I'm not sure about pharmacists though... pharmacists I remember working at military hospitals were civilians, and in the clinics docs, PA's and others do much of the work that pharmacists would normally do. Military medicine follows different rules than the rest of the world when it comes to facilities that only treat actual service members.

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PharmD, MD, DO, etc all commission as an O-3

Does anyone have any idea of what sort of scholarships will be available this year? From what it looks like on google searches, they don't know for sure until October when the new fiscal budget comes out. I know my recruiter told me there were only like...19 scholarships for pharmacists last year (or some low number like that) which were all filled after the first board, but the previous year there were 30 some scholarships which they had to open another board in order to get all of them filled.

I have pretty much completed my app. and just did my physical earlier this week (at 5 in the morning which absolutely sucked). All I really need to do now is get reference letters from the Dean and a couple professors. My recruiter has told me that he thinks I am a competitive applicant, but of course, I always underestimate myself. Does anyone know what a "competitive" applicant possesses? No one ever really explains what characteristics are good to have in order to have the best chance at a scholarship. I just finished my first year of professional school and i had a 3.7 GPA after the first semester, but managed to screw up pharmacology this semester and got a C (first ever in my life) which dropped my overall pharmacy school GPA down to a 3.47 (the lowest i've ever had in my life). My recruiter told me that a lot of the applicants he sees have way lower GPA's than this, but everything I read online, people tend to have just as good, if not significantly better GPA's than myself. I've also worked for Walgreens since I was 16, so I have some pharmacy experience obviously. I am also an Eagle scout with pretty extensive leadership training through multiple programs in the boy scouts. I've always been told that being an Eagle would help my resume significantly, but up until now (with a slight exception to my pharmacy school interview), I have not received any of these benefits. I also know that being an officer in the military requires a significant amount of leadership. Does anyone think that these sorts of things will help me out?

It seems really hard to find HPSP recipients in pharmacy school! If I receive the scholarship , I am definitely going to post (in depth) my entire experience because I have been very frustrated with the lack of information on the pharmacy HPSP!

KUPharm2013 said:

Does anyone have any idea of what sort of scholarships will be available this year? From what it looks like on google searches, they don't know for sure until October when the new fiscal budget comes out. I know my recruiter told me there were only like...19 scholarships for pharmacists last year (or some low number like that) which were all filled after the first board, but the previous year there were 30 some scholarships which they had to open another board in order to get all of them filled.

I have pretty much completed my app. and just did my physical earlier this week (at 5 in the morning which absolutely sucked). All I really need to do now is get reference letters from the Dean and a couple professors. My recruiter has told me that he thinks I am a competitive applicant, but of course, I always underestimate myself. Does anyone know what a "competitive" applicant possesses? No one ever really explains what characteristics are good to have in order to have the best chance at a scholarship. I just finished my first year of professional school and i had a 3.7 GPA after the first semester, but managed to screw up pharmacology this semester and got a C (first ever in my life) which dropped my overall pharmacy school GPA down to a 3.47 (the lowest i've ever had in my life). My recruiter told me that a lot of the applicants he sees have way lower GPA's than this, but everything I read online, people tend to have just as good, if not significantly better GPA's than myself. I've also worked for Walgreens since I was 16, so I have some pharmacy experience obviously. I am also an Eagle scout with pretty extensive leadership training through multiple programs in the boy scouts. I've always been told that being an Eagle would help my resume significantly, but up until now (with a slight exception to my pharmacy school interview), I have not received any of these benefits. I also know that being an officer in the military requires a significant amount of leadership. Does anyone think that these sorts of things will help me out?

It seems really hard to find HPSP recipients in pharmacy school! If I receive the scholarship , I am definitely going to post (in depth) my entire experience because I have been very frustrated with the lack of information on the pharmacy HPSP!

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This was last year...but I can tell you what I know.

The number 19 is correct and there was only one board is also correct.

A person from my school with similar GPA / similar work and leadership exp as yours got the scholarship. I did not, but my GPA is a good half point lower than yours with similar leadership and work experience. The fact that I have a few tattoos MAY be a confounding factor working against me. I have been ranked pretty high on their waitlist (basically if they get more $ this fiscal year or someone does not sign, they would go to this waitlist.)

Hope this helps.

awesome thanks!

my recruiter doesn't seem to think this C will affect me too much, but i'm getting my reference letter people their stuff now so hopefully i'll get some good luck and get a scholarship!

The benefits look great for the Army, although how much say do you have in your job, or where you live. Are you able to live where you would like to, assuming there is a base nearby, or will you be told, "your being reassigned to Maine," etc. Are there opportunities for loan repayment if you sign up after you graduate, or are there more benefits to signing up during school. Are there any good threads on these topics that I should look at. What is your quality of life working as a military Pharmacist, how does it compare to the retail chains.

FYI, military service has benefits on SDN too.
http://help.studentdoctor.net/entries/185027-uniformed-services-free-membership-upgrade

tablet said:

The benefits look great for the Army, although how much say do you have in your job, or where you live. Are you able to live where you would like to, assuming there is a base nearby, or will you be told, "your being reassigned to Maine," etc. Are there opportunities for loan repayment if you sign up after you graduate, or are there more benefits to signing up during school. Are there any good threads on these topics that I should look at. What is your quality of life working as a military Pharmacist, how does it compare to the retail chains.

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You have some say but not a whole lot. The Army doesn't have any bases in Maine but we do have some positions in Fairbanks Alaska. Loan Repayment is available to all incoming pharmacy officers in the Army. If you do a search, you will see many extensive discussions about military pharmacy. I worked retail for 12 years. I love working for the military much more than the chains. Im home by 530 most days and rarely ever work weekends. All major holidays off and usually the day before holidays are off as well. Plus 30 days of vacation a year. Of course there is a price you have to pay for these benefits (like deployment, PT, assignments in locations you dont like), but for me its worth it.

Will you get moved around and deployed only if your enlisted? Is it any different to be a 'civilian employed by the Army,' or is this just different terminology for the same thing. Also, how much B.S. do you have to put with on a daily basis. Does 1 Pharmacist fill 400 rx with 1 tech everyday.

tablet said:

Will you get moved around and deployed only if your enlisted? Is it any different to be a 'civilian employed by the Army,' or is this just different terminology for the same thing. Also, how much B.S. do you have to put with on a daily basis. Does 1 Pharmacist fill 400 rx with 1 tech everyday.

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Pharmacist are officers - we do not enlist. It is absolutely different to be a civilian employed by the DOD/Army than to be an active duty officer. Caver will be able to fill you in on the different responsibilities (he is far more experienced than I).

Do some research on your own to educate yourself about the service. Use the search function here along with the Army's AMEDD page. You appear curious, but framing your question by asking how much "BS" there is shows naivety. After you have done some background work, come back and ask in-depth questions.

Can I say, sir, I would like to live in East Texas for my Army career? Or, can I be stationed in the Killeen/Temple/Marlin area?

aboveliquidice This is my background work, SDN, the "Another Army/AF/Navy" thread. I am trying to learn from people with first-hand experience. Can you tell me the difference between the 2 (officer vs civilian employee) in terms of loan repayment and sign-on bonus'. If you have any experience in military pharmacy, can you tell me how much B.S. you have to put up with on a daily basis? How naive to ponder such a question before signing a 6 year contract, the Army website doesnt exactly refer to this. I keep reading on SDN that I shouldnt ask a recruiter either.

tablet said:

Will you get moved around and deployed only if your enlisted? Is it any different to be a 'civilian employed by the Army,' or is this just different terminology for the same thing. Also, how much B.S. do you have to put with on a daily basis. Does 1 Pharmacist fill 400 rx with 1 tech everyday.

Can I say, sir, I would like to live in East Texas for my Army career? Or, can I be stationed in the Killeen/Temple/Marlin area?

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You will get moved around every three to four years. There are no exceptions to that rule. That is just the military life style. Like Above mentioned, you commission as an officer, not enlist. Enlisting is for enlisted soldiers. You would be an officer. Yes, being a pharmacist as an officer is much much different than being a civilian employed by the army. Both have great benefits. If you are a civilian, you work your hours and go home. No extra duties, no extra "military" things you have to do. You would never be deployed, have great help and a guaranteed lunch break! If you were in officer, you will more than likely be in charge of an operation. In addition, you will need to do PT on your own time to stay fit. There are other military duties that come up from time to time, but that's what makes our job different. Every day is different in the military. As far as putting up with BS, there is just as much BS in the military as there is in retail and hospital world. It's not much different, just different. I prefer to put up with it instead of retail BS.

As far as numbers go, I work at a facility that does over 1500 rx's a day. Usually, we have 8-10 pharmacists working and about 10-12 technicians at any given time.

When you go through the process, you will be given an opportunity to rank what bases you want to go to. That is where they will try to match you up with your desires. Some people get what they want (like Germany) some get what they don't want. It all depends on your luck.

Hope this helps!

tablet said:

aboveliquidice This is my background work, SDN, the "Another Army/AF/Navy" thread. I am trying to learn from people with first-hand experience. Can you tell me the difference between the 2 (officer vs civilian employee) in terms of loan repayment and sign-on bonus'. If you have any experience in military pharmacy, can you tell me how much B.S. you have to put up with on a daily basis? How naive to ponder such a question before signing a 6 year contract, the Army website doesnt exactly refer to this. I keep reading on SDN that I shouldnt ask a recruiter either.

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If you take friendly advice like you are in this post, I can tell you right now, the military is not going to be a good avenue for you.

Only officers get Loan Repayment or sign on bonus. You can not get both in the Army. Someone around here was able to get both from the Air Force. Not sure of their policy but someone did get it. Also, where are you getting six year contract from? Most agreements are three or four years unless you do a residency. If you do a residency, then its a six year deal.

tablet said:

aboveliquidice This is my background work, SDN, the "Another Army/AF/Navy" thread. I am trying to learn from people with first-hand experience. Can you tell me the difference between the 2 (officer vs civilian employee) in terms of loan repayment and sign-on bonus'. If you have any experience in military pharmacy, can you tell me how much B.S. you have to put up with on a daily basis? How naive to ponder such a question before signing a 6 year contract, the Army website doesnt exactly refer to this. I keep reading on SDN that I shouldnt ask a recruiter either.

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It isn't naive to ponder these questions... Asking questions here is one tool used to learn more. However, you should do enough research to identify what questions need be asked. A search would yield several threads on just this subject. I can understand your frustration, however being resourceful is a pivotal trait.

Check out this thread on armyocs.com: LINK - I posted it in blog form and updated as I learned more. It will give you a lot of information on Army incentives for pharmacists.

You should absolutely talk to an AMEDD recruiter about pharmacy (if you are so inclined). Use caution while he/she shares information with you. A recruiter is a salesman. He/she is attempting to sell you a military commitment. This means that you should verify everything offered / promised. When you come across a question you can't find the answer, feel free to post up. Regardless, you should still make an effort to learn on your own before asking.

tablet said:

Can I say, sir, I would like to live in East Texas for my Army career? Or, can I be stationed in the Killeen/Temple/Marlin area?

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Is there a base there? With Army pharmacists?

Caverject said:

If you take friendly advice like you are in this post, I can tell you right now, the military is not going to be a good avenue for you.

Only officers get Loan Repayment or sign on bonus. You can not get both in the Army. Someone around here was able to get both from the Air Force. Not sure of their policy but someone did get it. Also, where are you getting six year contract from? Most agreements are three or four years unless you do a residency. If you do a residency, then its a six year deal.

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According to my recruiter (Air Force), both the bonus and loan repayment are possible together (6 year commitment), but quite rare since loan repayment packages are quite few (this year, there were only 8 total). This is for regular commissioning, not HPSP.

I'm awaiting my final selection letter for the Navy so I figured I'd give you some info (that was painstakingly difficult to extract from my recruiter) if you decide to go USN:

The HPSP does not pay tuition. It pays monthly salary (E6, I believe) for the final 2 professional years of school. On the plus side, health benefits and time accrual toward retirement. Negatives: must pay for first 2 years of school, not eligible for loan repayment, and amounts to under $30,000 a year (goes fast when paying tuition). You must complete ODS (Officer Development School) PRIOR to completing school so that you are ready to go immediately after graduation.

As of this fiscal year, you CAN take both loan repayment (2 years $40,000 a year) and the $30,000 sign on bonus. This commits you to SIX years active duty (sign on bonus comes with mandatory 4 year commitment and each year of loan repayment is added onto that).

There were 6 sign on bonuses available this year, 2 have been used (I turned it down...didn't want to commit to such a long contract without experiencing the Navy for a little bit first).

If you take just the loan repayment ($40,000 a year for 2 years), you are committed to 3 years. On the plus side, if you love it and want to stay in, you can apply for reenlistment loan repayment again (up to the $80,000). This additional loan repayment comes with a minimum 2 years more active duty. So if you get $40,000 or $80,000 you still owe 2 years. So for 5 years active duty all together, you can get $160,000 in loan repayment as opposed to $80,000 for 7 years with the $30,000 sign on bonus.

Along with loan repayment and sign on bonus, pharmacists receive special pay in the Navy of $3000 a year for the first 3 years.

So, an O-3 makes $44,000 a year, plus $3000 special pay. Add in $40,000 for loan repayment. This $87,000 a year is TAXABLE income.

Then, consider BAH and BAS (housing and food allowance) of ranging from about $1200-3000 (depending on duty station and dependents) and $225 per month, respectively. At minimum, an extra $17,000 a year NOT TAXABLE. But can be up to $35,000.



All that aside, like mentioned earlier, DO NOT join the military for the money. Make sure it is the right place for you. Go talk to a recruiter (one especially for YOU, in the Navy that's the Medical Service Corps recruiter). Question everything they tell you and ask for written verification of all incentives...a brochure, a website, something.

RutgersEMSOP10 said:

Along with loan repayment and sign on bonus, pharmacists receive special pay in the Navy of $3000 a year for the first 3 years.

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Great post!

You may want to recheck the specialty pay number. I am reasonably sure it's $15,000 a year. $3000 a year was the old special pay bonus for years until two years ago for all the services.

Caverject said:

Great post!

You may want to recheck the specialty pay number. I am reasonably sure it's $15,000 a year. $3000 a year was the old special pay bonus for years until two years ago for all the services.

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I sure hope you're right, because that would be icing on the cake money for me! My recruiter is new (just started last April) and has been having a difficult time getting information - he was a Corpsman with the Marines before this, so he doesn't have much experience with Navy healthcare I think . I had an interview with a CMDR who also quoted the $15,000 a year figure to me, but I was unable to find it on any written materials, so I was hesitant to get my hopes up. Quite a few people have said, however, that the $15,000 figure is correct, so I'm feeling pretty good about it!

RutgersEMSOP10 said:

I sure hope you're right, because that would be icing on the cake money for me! My recruiter is new (just started last April) and has been having a difficult time getting information - he was a Corpsman with the Marines before this, so he doesn't have much experience with Navy healthcare I think . I had an interview with a CMDR who also quoted the $15,000 a year figure to me, but I was unable to find it on any written materials, so I was hesitant to get my hopes up. Quite a few people have said, however, that the $15,000 figure is correct, so I'm feeling pretty good about it!

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15k is the current figure. Definitely keep in close contact with your recruiter and verify information along the way. Recruiters are generally good people, but their "job" is to get people in. Like any other salesman, you should verify what you are being sold.

RutgersEMSOP10 said:

I sure hope you're right, because that would be icing on the cake money for me! My recruiter is new (just started last April) and has been having a difficult time getting information - he was a Corpsman with the Marines before this, so he doesn't have much experience with Navy healthcare I think . I had an interview with a CMDR who also quoted the $15,000 a year figure to me, but I was unable to find it on any written materials, so I was hesitant to get my hopes up. Quite a few people have said, however, that the $15,000 figure is correct, so I'm feeling pretty good about it!

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I know this is not an official document, but military times is a very reliable source

"Pharmacy officer retention special pay: Pharmacists in pay grades O-6 and below who have completed their active-duty obligation for education/training and agree to remain for two years qualify for $15,000 in annual retention special pay."

http://militarytimes.com/projects/money/pay_charts/2010/medical_dental/

What that statement means is if you take the $15K, you must remain in the military for at least 2 years. Your contract is at least 3 years long so its not going to effect your ETS (get out of the military) date.