Is anyone happy in medicine any more?

AllOptionsOpen said:

Where are the blogs of happy physicians? Where are the interviews with those that have gone through medical school and residency, with a family, and came out happier than they were going on? Are those thrilled with what they do afraid if they come out and say, "I absolutely love what I do, and the pay is great", it will add fuel to the class warfare arguments that are behind much of the angst the nation feels towards health care costs?

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I think the happy ones are too busy working and living their life, instead of whinging and moaning about on the Internet.

Based on my (n=1) experience volunteering for and shadowing doctors, there are plenty of happy ones out there, they just don't spend a lot of time venting on SDN. I really do appreciate the knowledge that can be gathered here, but I don't know that balanced personal critiques are the site's strong suit. I know that in my current field, which is in *some* ways similarly stratified (many striving young folks, fewer successful professionals) you can easily find complaints and anxiety online--the satisfied people are busy working. Not very helpful, I know, but worth keeping in mind.

Dianyla said:

I think the happy ones are too busy working and living their life, instead of whinging and moaning about on the Internet.

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No kidding! I bet the happy ones are spending what extra time they have with their families and friends, enjoying the fruits of their labor (i.e. like my FM brother-in-law)
--in the case of one doctor I know, his 3 houses and Olympics-level figure skating daughter

Dianyla said:

I think the happy ones are too busy working and living their life, instead of whinging and moaning about on the Internet.

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Most of the doctors I know, don't even know about SDN. Plus they don't have the time to hang around and chat or blog. lol I am quite certain that most of the bloggers here who categorize themselves as physicians (esp, attendings) are nothing but fat losers living in their parents basements. If you have ever worked in a hospital you would know that attendings don't even have time to eat. Why would they hang around SDN? LOL You will find happy and not so happy people in every profession. Yes, medicine is hard work but the rewards are great if you go in with the right intention. Even when Obamacare kicks in, physicians will still rank as one of the highest paid professionals (minus pro athletes). Go out and find something that tickles your wiggle and be HAPPY!!!

I think it's akin to the reason why most great poetry is about loss, yearning, or heartache. When you're happy you're too busy being happy to spend time writing/blogging about it.

Amongst my friends who've been attendings for about 6-8 years now I'd say:

- 25% are really happy and absolutely love what they're doing
- 60% think of it as just a job but generally like it ok despite the annoying hassles
- 15% hate it/regret becoming a doctor/left patient care altogether/changed careers

and you look at surveys in this country. if you had good service or you are happy with something, you don't fill it out. but when you have something to bitch about you are looking for the survey to send it. same thing.

Based on my experiences. The doctors i've met that tend to be happier are the one's that work about 20 or so hours a week and typically in small clinics or small towns with not a lot of patients. Most of the doctors i've met that have lots of patients or work in big hospitals tend to be less happy.

This breakdown is true for virtually all fields of work out there. Generally the majority of people don't love or hate their job. They accept it as a job and realize it pays the bill. I have a job that pays well now, but it's a job. I don't love it, I don't hate it. I like the fact that I'm compensated well to do it. If I didn't, I would look for something else.

I have worked in health care long enough to know that even if I absolutely hate medicine, it's the only thing that will move me forward in the biotech field. I've reached the peak of my career in biotech without an advanced degree.

I did some soul-searching when I considered medicine (and came to the realization that it is the right decision):
Best case scenario: I love medicine as much as I think I will and am really happy practicing. I will have virtually no debt after medical school (have enough to pay for a year and some and I will be serving in the Air Force for 3 yrs in exchange for 3 years of service if all goes according to plan (fingers crossed)).
Worst case: I hate medicine and return to biotech with a medical degree and am paid much more to do my current job which I don't love or hate.
Absolute worse case: I don't make it to medical school or do not gradute and continue doing what I'm doing now.

Realize in any field, you are much more likely to view what you do as a job that pays the bills (ultimately that is what every one needs, unless you are a trust fund baby).

NTF said:

- 25% are really happy and absolutely love what they're doing
- 60% think of it as just a job but generally like it ok despite the annoying hassles
- 15% hate it/regret becoming a doctor/left patient care altogether/changed careers

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mspeedwagon said:

This breakdown is true for virtually all fields of work out there. Generally the majority of people don't love or hate their job. They accept it as a job and realize it pays the bill.

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Does it pay the bills? I've heard doctors are getting a lot less now because of lawsuits, malpractice insurance, personal insurance for stuff malpractice insurance doesn't cover, etc.

dxu said:

I love being a paramedic. I just don't like where I work or the money I make, even though my pay is in the top 10% for all current paramedics. But I am definitely happy with being a paramedic.

The nice thing about being non-trads is we know what it is like to work 50-80 hours a week, manage a home, pay bills, and truly work for a living. We have dealt with people we like, people we hate, and people we are generally indifferent to. We have something very important that is really priceless; life experience.

If we were all happy and fulfilled with our current jobs, salary, etc then none of us would be pursuing the proverbial "hell" that awaits us in medical school. That being said, hell to me is continuing working my current job for the next two years or so. I am actually looking forward to medical school. Once you've worked 80 hours between three jobs with an aching back and a diet of french fries and hot dogs, lectures and cadaver lab sound like a vacation.

dxu

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Same here.. after averaging 17-22 runs per shift and working 4 jobs as long as I have (ft fire/ems, pt fire/ems, aux cop, fire/ems instructor), med school sounds like a vacation and anything more spread out than q3 call (which is essentially what I do now) would be a lifestyle improvement. Add another 100k per year in income and ill be quite content

dxu said:

If we were all happy and fulfilled with our current jobs, salary, etc then none of us would be pursuing the proverbial "hell" that awaits us in medical school. That being said, hell to me is continuing working my current job for the next two years or so. I am actually looking forward to medical school. Once you've worked 80 hours between three jobs with an aching back and a diet of french fries and hot dogs, lectures and cadaver lab sound like a vacation.

dxu

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Exactly. Although my current job was not a problem to me, I am really looking forward to what other people describe as a hard life. I asked a lot of questions a couple of years ago when I started this. Some medical students act as if medical school is really hard, but I finally came to the conclusion that the complainers had never worked a real job.

I once cleaned out porta-potties for $4/hour. I doubt that there are many things more unpleasant than reaching into the hole with rubber gloves to pull out an apple with 1 bite in it. I once worked at a crop-dusting outfit every night and then went home to sleep on my parent's couch during the day, because my Mama was dying of cancer and I needed to stay with them in their 1 bedroom house. Visitors were in and out all day long.

Yesterday a medical student described his week to a group of us. He studies 12 hours a day and takes weekends off. Oh boo hoo.

If you pick your field carefully, its not a problem. Pediatrics is not a high risk field when it comes to lawsuits, malpractice insurance etc.

People can pay bills on 40k, so yes, it pays the bills. Even if my salary only doubles to 200k, it'll be worth the possible future career advancement in biotech (as a non-practicing physician).

jasin said:

Does it pay the bills? I've heard doctors are getting a lot less now because of lawsuits, malpractice insurance, personal insurance for stuff malpractice insurance doesn't cover, etc.

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I figured I'd reply with a smile before the army of "THESE ARE OUTLIERS, MOST DOCTORS ARE WAGE SLAVES ON THE VERGE OF TAKING THEIR OWN LIVES BEFORE THE SOCIALIST REGIME FINISHES OFF THEIR PROFESSION FOR GOOD." replies swarm in.

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LOL...I think you jinxed it. So far people seem reasonable.

Edlongshanks,

I totally agree -- real jobs are way worse than studying 12 hours a day. It's not just the physical labour that goes into the 'real jobs,' it's the complete lack of respect by your superiors and the general public, and the resulting hits to your self-esteem that make 'real jobs' unbearable.

OP,

I've learned to cherry pick on SDN. Take the good, ignore the bad. This forum can convince you to quit because it is totally biased. Not to mention the gunner agendas of some members/school "admin" people. I don't want to bash anyone specifically but I've been disgusted by some of the "advice" people give on here, like people bashing a med school just so that they can get off the waitlist for that school and stuff.

I think, in general, lowered expectations are always helpful. In the same way a cheerleader is pickier at her pinnacle of high school glory than after a ten year stint at the truckstop working her pole routine.

My pole routine was a well-rehearsed boredom. So I am more than happy just to get on with learning something.

Still. I think it's more complicated than that. As medicine seems to host legitimate problems for the type of people it recruits. The two don't seem to jive with each other. To make it into this game and also in some regards to do well in it, necessitates a certain uncompromising, @ss-kicking intent and will power. Whereas in practice is marathon of negotiations. And in training is replete with soul-sucking compromises to favorably impress the nurse, the resident, the patient, the family, the attending, the janitor, the......

This kind of thing squashes all the notions it took to obtain the opportunity and to survive it.

It doesn't surprise my that there is much discontentment. Nor do I think it is only a matter of being a nontrad to overcome it.

victoriah said:

Edlongshanks,

I totally agree -- real jobs are way worse than studying 12 hours a day. It's not just the physical labour that goes into the 'real jobs,' it's the complete lack of respect by your superiors and the general public, and the resulting hits to your self-esteem that make 'real jobs' unbearable.\.

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I think you interpreted more than I meant. I was saying that med school wasn't that bad (although residency, by all accounts remains a horror and a nightmare). I'm not complaining about my current job, which is a dream of ease and comfort.

EdLongshanks said:

Yesterday a medical student described his week to a group of us. He studies 12 hours a day and takes weekends off. Oh boo hoo.

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The stresses of medical school are entirely different than the stresses of a Real World Job, but there are still stresses. The kid you're talking about is obviously preclinical, and I agree with you there that this part of med school is much less stressful than a Real World Job. The most stressful part of the first two years of med school for most people is when they take Step 1, but make no mistake, that is plenty stressful. Those of you who think preparing for the MCAT was hard, just wait....

Third year of medical school is very different, and it's very stressful for many people. First, you are being evaluated by everyone, as Nas said, and that can even include patients as well as hospital staff. Second, these evaluations are largely subjective. Look cross-eyed at the wrong person, and it can show up in your eval. Third, getting enough subjective evals that are even lukewarm can sink your chances of getting the residency you want. Fourth, many people have to take shelf exams, which are basically like subject-based Step 2-style exams. At some schools, these count for a large portion of your grade, and at others they barely count at all. But if you're at a school where shelfs count a lot, having to come home and study for a few hours while you're on an 80-hour-per-week inpatient rotation is hellish. You know those days where you have to keep rereading the same sentence over and over because you keep drifting off in the middle of it? That gets old after six or eight weeks straight. Fifth, some of your teams are gonna have some toxic people on them, from residents who hate their lives and want you to hate yours too; to fellow students who are gunning to make you look bad so they look better. Fairy tale endings aside, sometimes these people succeed.

Now, for some unlucky people, add on a good dose of home life stress on top of this, because life doesn't stop for your surgery rotation. I was pretty fortunate to not have any major calamities during third year. But a few other people I know had some major life issues, from breaking up with a significant other and being kicked out of their shared apartment; to having a parent die; to ending up hospitalized themselves for emergency surgery. Those are things that would be stressful at any time, let alone during rotations.

When those of you all who are applying this year go on your interviews, pay attention to who is meeting with you at lunch, sitting on panels, and leading your tours. Odds are that you're mostly meeting preclinical students. There's a good reason for that.

Also, here's a little advice: when those interviewers ask you if you have any questions, you should ask about how third year rotations work rather than worrying about PBL versus lecture. Those third year grades are going to be a lot more important for your future in medicine than your preclinical year classes.

AllOptionsOpen said:

Any lurking physicians here happy with what they do?

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Yes, there are some. As others have said, happy people don't generally go on message boards to wax eloquent about how much they love their jobs. But I know a lot of physicians who are happy doing what they do. I'm happy that I'm going to be doing what they do starting next year, too.

Northwesterly said:

Based on my (n=1) experience volunteering for and shadowing doctors, there are plenty of happy ones out there, they just don't spend a lot of time venting on SDN. I really do appreciate the knowledge that can be gathered here, but I don't know that balanced personal critiques are the site's strong suit. I know that in my current field, which is in *some* ways similarly stratified (many striving young folks, fewer successful professionals) you can easily find complaints and anxiety online--the satisfied people are busy working. Not very helpful, I know, but worth keeping in mind.

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Dianyla said:

I think the happy ones are too busy working and living their life, instead of whinging and moaning about on the Internet.

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My dad is an ER physician. Growing up with him I learned how much he hates his life and his job. He makes 38k a month as an independent contractor. I learned very early in my life that money isn't anything if you're not happy.

Yes it's so satisfying having drunk and drug abuser patients persistently yelling and cursing at you all night while you're trying to treat them, having to fix a murderer's wounds while the police are standing outside the door, trying to bleakly reverse serious suicide attempts in which you probably won't succeed....yes he is so busy working and living his life alright

Oh and yeah we had the 6 bedroom house and summer house and pool and yada yada but it's really not that nice at all when your dad is pissed off all the time.

P.S. - He doesn't know about SDN or really anything on the internet except for email so the whole "only the ones that don't like the job come on SDN" is false...oh and my mom is an internist so it's not that bad but once she went overseas she couldn't bring herself to come back to the U.S..."I'm too sick and tired of it" she said...so yeah she's still over there with my little brothers while our 3rd 5 bedroom home is completely empty...

what a happy life huh

samurai361 said:

My dad is an ER physician. Growing up with him I learned how much he hates his life and his job. He makes 38k a month as an independent contractor. I learned very early in my life that money isn't anything if you're not happy.

Yes it's so satisfying having drunk and drug abuser patients persistently yelling and cursing at you all night while you're trying to treat them, having to fix a murderer's wounds while the police are standing outside the door, trying to bleakly reverse serious suicide attempts in which you probably won't succeed....yes he is so busy working and living his life alright

Oh and yeah we had the 6 bedroom house and summer house and pool and yada yada but it's really not that nice at all when your dad is pissed off all the time.

P.S. - He doesn't know about SDN or really anything on the internet except for email so the whole "only the ones that don't like the job come on SDN" is false...oh and my mom is an internist so it's not that bad but once she went overseas she couldn't bring herself to come back to the U.S..."I'm too sick and tired of it" she said...so yeah she's still over there with my little brothers while our 3rd 5 bedroom home is completely empty...

what a happy life huh

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Has to be better than being poor and having your dad pissed off all the time...at least you could hang out in a different wing of the house/different house
hehe

samurai361 said:

My dad is an ER physician. Growing up with him I learned how much he hates his life and his job. He makes 38k a month as an independent contractor. I learned very early in my life that money isn't anything if you're not happy.

Yes it's so satisfying having drunk and drug abuser patients persistently yelling and cursing at you all night while you're trying to treat them, having to fix a murderer's wounds while the police are standing outside the door, trying to bleakly reverse serious suicide attempts in which you probably won't succeed....yes he is so busy working and living his life alright

Oh and yeah we had the 6 bedroom house and summer house and pool and yada yada but it's really not that nice at all when your dad is pissed off all the time.

P.S. - He doesn't know about SDN or really anything on the internet except for email so the whole "only the ones that don't like the job come on SDN" is false...oh and my mom is an internist so it's not that bad but once she went overseas she couldn't bring herself to come back to the U.S..."I'm too sick and tired of it" she said...so yeah she's still over there with my little brothers while our 3rd 5 bedroom home is completely empty...

what a happy life huh

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I'm sure if some poor kid in Haiti finds out how sad you are he will be happy to switch lives. LOL

sassilysweet said:

Has to be better than being poor and having your dad pissed off all the time...at least you could hang out in a different wing of the house/different house
hehe

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No actually it's not because a poor dad probably wouldn't beat the crap out of you for falling asleep during your 3rd math tutor of the day at 9:00 pm after sleeping for 3 hrs/night for the previous 5 nights bc you had to stay up all night doing homework for your 7 AP classes. so hey let's not be judgemental "sweet"

MiCasaMD said:

I'm sure if some poor kid in Haiti finds out how sad you are he will be happy to switch lives. LOL

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Um actually I'm going overseas next year to stay in Sudan all year and I seriously can't wait. I've visited over my summers and I hate coming back here when the summers are over. Life over there is so simple and humble and no one is judgmental. So yeah way to make assumptions LOL

samurai361 said:

My dad is an ER physician. Growing up with him I learned how much he hates his life and his job. He makes 38k a month as an independent contractor. I learned very early in my life that money isn't anything if you're not happy.

Yes it's so satisfying having drunk and drug abuser patients persistently yelling and cursing at you all night while you're trying to treat them, having to fix a murderer's wounds while the police are standing outside the door, trying to bleakly reverse serious suicide attempts in which you probably won't succeed....yes he is so busy working and living his life alright

Oh and yeah we had the 6 bedroom house and summer house and pool and yada yada but it's really not that nice at all when your dad is pissed off all the time.

P.S. - He doesn't know about SDN or really anything on the internet except for email so the whole "only the ones that don't like the job come on SDN" is false...oh and my mom is an internist so it's not that bad but once she went overseas she couldn't bring herself to come back to the U.S..."I'm too sick and tired of it" she said...so yeah she's still over there with my little brothers while our 3rd 5 bedroom home is completely empty...

what a happy life huh

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I think you need a healthy dose of perspective.

samurai361 said:

No actually it's not because a poor dad probably wouldn't beat the crap out of you for falling asleep during your 3rd math tutor of the day at 9:00 pm after sleeping for 3 hrs/night for the previous 5 nights bc you had to stay up all night doing homework for your 7 AP classes. so hey let's not be judgemental "sweet"


Um actually I'm going overseas next year to stay in Sudan all year and I seriously can't wait. I've visited over my summers and I hate coming back here when the summers are over. Life over there is so simple and humble and no one is judgmental. So yeah way to make assumptions LOL

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I'm just saying everyone has problems and I have more sympathy for people with no food or clothing than people who are "forced" to have math tutors

samurai361 said:

My dad is an ER physician. Growing up with him I learned how much he hates his life and his job. He makes 38k a month as an independent contractor. I learned very early in my life that money isn't anything if you're not happy.

Yes it's so satisfying having drunk and drug abuser patients persistently yelling and cursing at you all night while you're trying to treat them, having to fix a murderer's wounds while the police are standing outside the door, trying to bleakly reverse serious suicide attempts in which you probably won't succeed....yes he is so busy working and living his life alright

Oh and yeah we had the 6 bedroom house and summer house and pool and yada yada but it's really not that nice at all when your dad is pissed off all the time.

P.S. - He doesn't know about SDN or really anything on the internet except for email so the whole "only the ones that don't like the job come on SDN" is false...oh and my mom is an internist so it's not that bad but once she went overseas she couldn't bring herself to come back to the U.S..."I'm too sick and tired of it" she said...so yeah she's still over there with my little brothers while our 3rd 5 bedroom home is completely empty...

what a happy life huh

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boo ****ing hoo

It sounds like your dad was just an *******. I'd work in the ER for much less than 450 large a year and be damn happy every freaking day. Your experience says nothing about how medicine effects people. It merely proves that there are dicks in medicine.

FiremedicMike said:

I think you need a healthy dose of perspective.

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Oh really Mike? How would you propose I get a healthy dose of perspective? I think I've seen it all, from living in Africa to child abuse on my dad's part from all his rage. How do you, in your infinite wisdom, propose I get this dose? Seriously, let's hear it, I'm all ears

sassilysweet said:

I'm just saying everyone has problems and I have more sympathy for people with no food or clothing than people who are "forced" to have math tutors

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Yeah say that when you're beaten so badly you can't even walk to the point your dad is arrested for child abuse. Yes you know exactly what I went through. It's actually funny, my fiance is probably poorer than all of you combined yet none of you stop from making judgemental comments. And yeah he lives in Africa which probably most of you have never visited.
So as a future doctor, it'd be nice if you didn't judge people, you know, for the sake of the patients at least

sassilysweet said:

I'm just saying everyone has problems and I have more sympathy for people with no food or clothing than people who are "forced" to have math tutors

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You all are too hard on this guy. Extreme poverty is miserable and each dollar increases happiness a lot, but this is on a curve (I forget which kind of curve climbs steeply at first and then levels off to approach a maximum at infinity) .

After a middle class lifestyle is reached, money does very little to increase happiness. Sure, this guy is a lot better off than the haitian single-tree coconut farmer, but he's not better off than the son of a New York City garbage collector who is happy with his life.

AllOptionsOpen said:

So, you feel your abusive father is a good example to use when relating career satisfaction? It's not possible someone willing to abuse their child is just a miserable s.o.b. in general?

I'm sure if he were a day laborer, and your mother a maid, they would have loved living here a showered you with hugs and kisses every night. Very sorry to hear how medicine and money ruined an otherwise perfect family.

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Yeah sux huh. I guess we'll never know what % of doctors hate their job, maybe we should do a statistical analysis. The point is what the OP says is not entirely beyond the truth and the people here who refuse to believe it should be willing to accept the fact that it's not all happy and roses. Not every job is WONDERFUL.

THAT IS ALL I WANTED TO POINT OUT.

AllOptionsOpen said:

So, you feel your abusive father is a good example to use when relating career satisfaction? It's not possible someone willing to abuse their child is just a miserable s.o.b. in general?

I'm sure if he were a day laborer, and your mother a maid, they would have loved living here a showered you with hugs and kisses every night. Very sorry to hear how medicine and money ruined an otherwise perfect family.

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This.


Samurai, People are making judgmental remarks because you are coming off like an ass in your posts and your comments keep upping the ante to justify it.
If you were abused then I am sorry for you, no child should have to go through that. But like AOO said, it ain't medicine that did it to your dad.
Almost everyone has some form of ****e to deal with from their background, some worse than others, and if you want to believe that you and yours have had the hardest time out of everyone else in the entire world, then you just go ahead and keep believing that.

samurai361 said:

Oh really Mike? How would you propose I get a healthy dose of perspective? I think I've seen it all, from living in Africa to child abuse on my dad's part from all his rage. How do you, in your infinite wisdom, propose I get this dose? Seriously, let's hear it, I'm all ears


Yeah say that when you're beaten so badly you can't even walk to the point your dad is arrested for child abuse. Yes you know exactly what I went through. It's actually funny, my fiance is probably poorer than all of you combined yet none of you stop from making judgemental comments. And yeah he lives in Africa which probably most of you have never visited.
So as a future doctor, it'd be nice if you didn't judge people, you know, for the sake of the patients at least

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Even if all you're saying is true it doesn't prove a damn thing. Clearly, you're father was screwed far before he entered the world of medicine. Further, stop whining about your childhood and remember that there is ALWAYS someone who has had it far worse than you could ever imagine.

Okay everyone:

I'm not whining at all. I just wanted to point out (okay maybe I was a lil extreme in my wording) that it's not always going to be such a great job.

Alright maybe I shouldn't have brought my personal life into this, which I only did because people were judging me when I mentioned certain items we have had in the past and I just wanted to show that that is not at all representative of the person I am or the childhood I had.

And yes maybe I am biased because I was forced to do pre-med and after a long struggle I told my parents I didn't want to more than halfway through.

But that doesn't negate the fact that the job is HARD, my dad works 50 LONG HARD hours a week to see that paycheck, we live in a rural place but that doesn't negate the fact that it is taxing and not everything about being an MD is wonderful.

Yeah sure my dad may have had issues to begin with although he wasn't like this in his youth. But I sincerely believe the job's stress made it worse. He has been practicing for 20+ years and is one of the best in the area (we're talking upper 90s board and usmle scores) but he tells me that every time he goes in the ER he prays he doesn't make a mistake.

Alright?? So my point is don't always refuse to hear negative aspects about the job because it's not what you believe in. Just keep an OPEN perspective.

And yes EdLongshanks I agree with you, thanks for pointing that out.

And yes smarttee it is true I swear to God 100% it is true. It's just surprising to some because no one sees that part of some MD's life because it's behind closed doors.

And one more thing I'm sorry if I offended anyone and good luck to all of you. God bless and peace out.

Not exactly groovy tonight are we.

Kumbayank the mic from the guy to your left, knock the the dutchie into the sand, and belt out some Sinatra ala feedback at the nontrad drum circle much yall.

What Q and Ed said. We're in for a long haul.

And we'll see soon enough who's skippin the light fandago, after turnin cartwheels around the floors. Who's gettin kind of sea sick and headin for the door. Because the crowd will always want more.

There's no use getting indignant at the lack of gratitude for what we don't even know the feeling of yet around our necks.

samurai361 said:

My dad is an ER physician. Growing up with him I learned how much he hates his life and his job. He makes 38k a month as an independent contractor. I learned very early in my life that money isn't anything if you're not happy.

Yes it's so satisfying having drunk and drug abuser patients persistently yelling and cursing at you all night while you're trying to treat them, having to fix a murderer's wounds while the police are standing outside the door, trying to bleakly reverse serious suicide attempts in which you probably won't succeed....yes he is so busy working and living his life alright

Oh and yeah we had the 6 bedroom house and summer house and pool and yada yada but it's really not that nice at all when your dad is pissed off all the time.

P.S. - He doesn't know about SDN or really anything on the internet except for email so the whole "only the ones that don't like the job come on SDN" is false...oh and my mom is an internist so it's not that bad but once she went overseas she couldn't bring herself to come back to the U.S..."I'm too sick and tired of it" she said...so yeah she's still over there with my little brothers while our 3rd 5 bedroom home is completely empty...

what a happy life huh

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hey if you guys wanna be happy vicariously through me by paying my student loans please let me know because i am up for adoption

i fun, handsome, charismatic, caring. i am everything you could want in adopted brother.

EdLongshanks said:

You all are too hard on this guy. Extreme poverty is miserable and each dollar increases happiness a lot, but this is on a curve (I forget which kind of curve climbs steeply at first and then levels off to approach a maximum at infinity) .

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If you mean a curve that levels off to an asymptote as X goes to infinity, then you are talking about a logarithmic curve. Like this:



And I agree with this characterization. Having too little money to get by sure doesn't make you happy either, but you do reach a point of saturation after which having even more money isn't going to increase your quality of life much, if at all, any more.

samurai361 said:

P.S. - He doesn't know about SDN or really anything on the internet except for email so the whole "only the ones that don't like the job come on SDN" is false...

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No it isn't. Or, more exactly, if the claim that unhappy physicians are more likely to vent on SDN (versus happy physicians) really *is* false, your dad's situation doesn't provide a counterexample. No one ever said that *all* existing physicians who are unhappy with their jobs post about it on SDN. Rather, the OP has observed that, of physicians who do post on SDN, the unhappy ones vastly outnumber the happy ones, and some of us are hypothesizing that the reason why is because the happy ones are too busy with life to post on SDN about how great things are for them. In other words, what we see on SDN is basically due to a self-selection bias.

All that being said, your dad does sound very unhappy, and I think we can all agree that being this unhappy is regrettable no matter what career the person is in. I hope things improve for him and for your family in general.

I know my uncle and my two cousins are very happy LOL

samurai361 said:

Oh really Mike? How would you propose I get a healthy dose of perspective? I think I've seen it all, from living in Africa to child abuse on my dad's part from all his rage. How do you, in your infinite wisdom, propose I get this dose? Seriously, let's hear it, I'm all ears


Yeah say that when you're beaten so badly you can't even walk to the point your dad is arrested for child abuse. Yes you know exactly what I went through. It's actually funny, my fiance is probably poorer than all of you combined yet none of you stop from making judgemental comments. And yeah he lives in Africa which probably most of you have never visited.
So as a future doctor, it'd be nice if you didn't judge people, you know, for the sake of the patients at least

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Look dude I do all those things that supposedly ruined your dad and I make about 150k less per year to do it, I also work more hours, so forgive me for not buying in to your pity party about how medicine made your dad act mean to you.

Samurai.. I hope this doesn't apply to you, but your story about going to Sudan (presumably to stay with your African fiance?) kinda rang some bells:

My dad's ex-wife married a Nigerian guy who is really poor. He went to England with her, and cheated on her multiple times. Eventually, he got some friends who robbed her house blind and now they are no where to be found. It took less than a year for all this to transpire.

In their several-year long courtship, there were no other red flags, other than their "true love" managed to bridge cultural, geographic and socioeconomic differences.

But usually, people don't cross THAT many. For a reason, perhaps?

I won't insult your intelligence by telling you the other danger of shipboard romances....the movie "Taken" sums it up well.

People are more likely to complain online than they are to tell you how wonderful the field of medicine is. Also, for those in competitive subspecialties, why would they want to get more physicians to enter those areas? That will only make things harder on them. But back to my first point, people on the web love to complain, and the fact that it's anonymous means individuals will say more than they would normally.

FindHappy said:

At my medical school, I watched many of my colleagues seek counseling once they learned how brutal the "education" system is. I don't think that students will be able to pay back these loan amounts very well once Obamacare hits. I currently advise medical students / residents to not plan on having families and paying back their loans.

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I always hesistate to disagree with a resident, but I assume that they know more about this than I do. But, in this case, we are dealing with predicting the future, so we stand on nearly level ground.

Doctor's are not going to go broke in the US. They have the ability to give too many individual contributions to politicians. If Obamacare reduces a young doctor's take home money by so much that physicians start defaulting on loans, then a system of loan forgiveness will be implemented.

Now, what may happen is that doctors will be relegated to only difficult cases and NP's and PA's will take over all the boring cases - adults with the flu, sore throats, small cuts and abrasions, yearly checkups. This will lower the need for doctors so much that they may actually have to start competing for work like the rest of Americans do. I hope this doesn't happen, although it would probably be a good thing for the country as a whole.

I really doubt anything significant is going to happen to physician wages. By all the accounts I've seen, wages account for 18-22% of total healthcare expenditure. I'm sure some wages are probably out of line but that isn't what is driving year over year cost increases. Let's face it, we live in an obese, unhealthy society that wants a pill for every ailment and we have a lot of people with the disposable income to get it. Healthcare will continue to be more expensive year after year as long as people live longer and continue to balloon out of proportion.

i feel you dude. no career is perfect. you can't expect to find perfection. heres a good quote:

“Don't wait until everything is just right. It will never be perfect. There will always be challenges, obstacles and less than perfect conditions. So what. Get started now. With each step you take, you will grow stronger and stronger, more and more skilled, more and more self-confident and more and more successful.”
-Mark Victor Hansen

AllOptionsOpen said:

Ignoring the "Obamacare" label, would you mind explaining how and why this will happen?

I think political issues seem to regularly, especially on the internet, fall into a pollyanna vs. chicken little debate. There are always a few that are nearly on the sidelines (hello Ed) where reasonable people sit, but I'm curious if you could be more informative or specific than "the sky is falling"?

Is this based on medicare pay cuts? If so, from what I can gather from reliable information online, there are increases for some specialties and decreases for others.

Really curious on what basis this is said. Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that the sky isn't falling, but in a world where politics have become wars of competing sound bites and labels fashioned by lobbyist groups all eager to protect or increase their share of a pie, I'm skeptical of all radical claims.

To imagine physicians going from dominating the top 25 best paid jobs in the US to suddenly being wage slaves is a radical claim.

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While I don't expect physicians to become dirt poor, one cannot ignore that Medicare and Medicaid are already in dire financial condition. Obamacare essentially expands both of these programs (among other things), there is no doubt in my mind that it will cause big problems.

mspeedwagon said:

If you pick your field carefully, its not a problem. Pediatrics is not a high risk field when it comes to lawsuits, malpractice insurance etc.

People can pay bills on 40k, so yes, it pays the bills. Even if my salary only doubles to 200k, it'll be worth the possible future career advancement in biotech (as a non-practicing physician).

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Ok, thanks.