Best DO school?

Sorry to say this, but for the most part this is a PreMed mentality. the best school is the one you fit in, the one that you will be most happy in and as a result perform better in! The one that fits your style of learning and the one you can picture youself studying for the next 4 years.

the word around here is that the following schools are somewhat top 5 (pass rate and stuff)

1. PCOM
2. DMUCOM
3. MSUCOM
4. UMDNJ-SOM
5. CCOM


you will find these to be the best in almost all forums.

UBCvan said:

the word around here is that the following schools are somewhat top 5 (pass rate and stuff)

1. PCOM
2. DMUCOM
3. MSUCOM
4. UMDNJ-SOM
5. CCOM


you will find these to be the best in almost all forums.

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Add KCUMB, and WesternP to that.

OP:

there are a few brand new schools that have have a Provisional Accredition till they graduate their first class but otherwise I wouldn't worry too much about pass rates since that changes from year to year and if you're really worried about those then you can focus on the older schools and applying to those only.

Definitive #1, no doubt about it: PCOM (the real PCOM, not ga)

Next tier (no particular order)

TCOM
CCOM
NYCOM
MSUCOM

I won't go past there.

The reality is that most schools are pretty close. PCOM is the definitive #1, and there are definitive people at the bottom, but in between you'll probably be OK for the most part.

The key is to look at match lists. I don't care if 1 out of 200 matched ACGME-rads, you have to take it in full. Be careful about match lists that report tons of prelim matches at "top" places. If it's just a prelim-surg or prelim-med, it really doesn't mean much.

Just to throw in some pre-med red meat: Look at MCAT/GPA averages of schools. Sorry guys, but those with lower scores generally have lower quality residency matches, etc. Definitely plays a role in things.

Even though CCOM is older, AZCOM has a good reputation as well. The above posters are all correct. While personal fit is important, it's also a good thing to look at previous match histories. Here's a random comparison of AZCOM's 2010 match results with that of a well-known MD school (Northwestern's Feinberg School of Medicine):

AZCOM:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...d=116169576940585216338.00047cc35353e511098cf

Northwestern:

http://www.feinberg.northwestern.ed...esidency/Residency_Match/allmatchresults.html

What you'll find is that just like in the DO school, there are many people going into FM and IM over in Northwestern. Try to see if students from these schools went into similar fields. Then try to see HOW MANY students went into these fields and what residency programs they actually got into. The kicker will be found in the success students have had going into the more sought after/competitive fields. For example, derm. Two people from Northwestern got into derm, one went to RI the other went to Yale in CT. Two people from AZCOM also got into derm, one went to Henry Ford in MI and the other went to Mayo in MN. Two individuals went into Rad Onc from Northwestern. They matched into programs at Northwestern and stayed there (and why? possibly because of family reasons, fell in love with the program there, couldn't get into anywhere else - who can really say for sure?). One individual went into Rad Onc at AZCOM. That person is now at Baylor. Anesthesiology is also sought after. 8 people went on to graduate into anesthesiology residencies from Northwestern. Good for them! Only 5 got in from AZCOM and they all went to allopathic residencies (btw, that was sarcasm for you all). Pathology... to each his own, I guess. But yes, one from Northwestern at the University of Chicago. One from AZCOM at Baylor.

I looked and there weren't any neurosurg people from AZCOM while two had managed to get in from Northwestern. There were 9 people who went into General Surgery from Northwestern. 8 went into it from AZCOM. 10 people went into Radiology from Northwestern and only 2 went in from AZCOM. Keep in mind that AZCOM doubled it's class size, so it's possible to see these numbers increase but it at least defeats the notion that DOs can't compete for positions in these fields. I didn't compare emergency medicine because it almost seems like EM is pretty receptive to DOs and MDs alike. Also, I did a quick search on saem.org to see what EM residencies around the country are like. Surprisingly, for a handful of allopathic EM residencies, the program directors running the show are DOs.

Coastie said:

Just to throw in some pre-med red meat: Look at MCAT/GPA averages of schools. Sorry guys, but those with lower scores generally have lower quality residency matches, etc. Definitely plays a role in things.

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I think it depends; WesternU/COMP has one of the highest GPA/MCAT averages for DO schools (3.56/28), but I think that's partially due to the intense competition from in-state California applicants who want to stay in CA.

I've always thought KCUMB has the best match list. I like my school, though. I actually enjoy it more than college in some ways.

Coastie said:

Definitive #1, no doubt about it: PCOM (the real PCOM, not ga)

Next tier (no particular order)

TCOM
CCOM
NYCOM
MSUCOM

I won't go past there.

The reality is that most schools are pretty close. PCOM is the definitive #1, and there are definitive people at the bottom, but in between you'll probably be OK for the most part.

The key is to look at match lists. I don't care if 1 out of 200 matched ACGME-rads, you have to take it in full. Be careful about match lists that report tons of prelim matches at "top" places. If it's just a prelim-surg or prelim-med, it really doesn't mean much.

Just to throw in some pre-med red meat: Look at MCAT/GPA averages of schools. Sorry guys, but those with lower scores generally have lower quality residency matches, etc. Definitely plays a role in things.

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Agreed.

Also keep in mind that PCOM has been around for 111 years in Philadelphia where there were 3 schools established already (UPenn, Jefferson, and Drexel) with Temple opening up in couple years after PCOM.

Try competing with 4 other MD schools right in the same city when osteopathic medicine was just beginning in the dark ages of medicine! PCOM must have been doing something right.

Out of curiosity, what is keeping KCOM out of the top list? I would think that the original school would be good for something.

Coastie said:

Definitive #1, no doubt about it: PCOM (the real PCOM, not ga)

Next tier (no particular order)

TCOM
CCOM
NYCOM
MSUCOM

I won't go past there.

The reality is that most schools are pretty close. PCOM is the definitive #1, and there are definitive people at the bottom, but in between you'll probably be OK for the most part.

The key is to look at match lists. I don't care if 1 out of 200 matched ACGME-rads, you have to take it in full. Be careful about match lists that report tons of prelim matches at "top" places. If it's just a prelim-surg or prelim-med, it really doesn't mean much.

Just to throw in some pre-med red meat: Look at MCAT/GPA averages of schools. Sorry guys, but those with lower scores generally have lower quality residency matches, etc. Definitely plays a role in things.

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How can you say that PCOM is definitely the top one? I know someone who went there and hated it. I would add OSU and KCOM to the top list.

TropicalKitty said:

Out of curiosity, what is keeping KCOM out of the top list? I would think that the original school would be good for something.

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You missed the point. KCOM didn't have 4 other MD schools in the same city to compete with when they started in the dark ages of medicine (i.e. Flexner report was around the corner and osteopathic medicine was in its infancy).

Pointlessness upon pointlessness, all is pointless. Has anything good ever come out of these debates? You have every available data at your disposal. Every conceivable opinion at your disposal on this forum. Does it make your decision any easier? I doubt it. More informed? Perhaps, but certainly not decidedly better.
For the 1,000,000th time, just go where you are comfortable and do your darn best with what you are given (sounds like Medicine to me?). I find it hard to believe that there are schools out there that do not care about their reputation to the extent that they will nothing about things like bad board schools. These schools are to a large extent businesses and will do their utmost best to get better with time, try new approaches, recruit better students and whatever it takes to earn a good reputation because I am sure they know that it somehow determines thier bottom line.
So instead of having a silly debate about school rankings and stats,maybe, just maybe, it would make more sense to choose a school and spend time talking to those who go there. Find out how things work there, strategies for survival, which classes suck and which are great and plan for these; PSYCH yourself up for challenges. Find/connect with some of their residents (several here on SDN!) in programs you might (being premed and all) like. Ask them how they did it, learn from them and use your own presumably good judgement to decide what will work for you. The worst thing you could do to yourself is have some kind of expectation that a school's match list or board scores will reflect on you once you go there. Its nonsense. If there was only 1 AGCME Rad match for instance at some school, and you should go there (assuming its your only acceptance and you think you want rad too), why don't you focus on being that 1 guy who made it, rather than on the 100 other guys who did not or quite reasonaly had no interest in rad? There is always that 1 guy/gal; BE that guy! or at least try. Having come this far as a premed, I bet you appreciate the fact that for the most part effort=results.

I can understand not wanting to go to a provisionally accredited school, but even there, you can make it. After all, I bet all the so called top school were provisionally accredited at some point. Right? So be bold, choose that school that made you not want to leave after the interview, that school that made you want to start there and then, that admin/com that made you feel at home, that school with those amazing facilities,...go there and KILL IT like your life depended on it. Then in four years someone here on SDN will be referring to you as "that guy" at "so and so" school who matched at that residency (FM to NS idc which, as long as you are happy) they really want. Instead of letting the statistic determine where you go or how you go about your education, why don't you be that statistic you want to see?

My 2 cents

Rollo said:

You missed the point. KCOM didn't have 4 other MD schools in the same city to compete with when they started in the dark ages of medicine (i.e. Flexner report was around the corner and osteopathic medicine was in its infancy).

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I missed no point. I grasped what you said fully and completely.

I was speaking to the general list that has been posted, not yours specifically. I would have mentioned you if I had been speaking directly about what you said regarding PCOM.

I don't get why no one is mentioning the original school, simple question.

So, I'll try again, what is it about KCOM that is keeping you listers from putting it on your list of "top" schools?

The biggest thing is no one knows.... I would say you can't go wrong with any of the state-funded DO schools. Rankings in medicine mean nothing. But the ones that show up on US News lists in the past have been TCOM, MSUCOM, and OSU-COM. They are the only three. You will find though that these are also 3 of the 5 or 6 state funded schools, and those ranks all have to do with research money... not productivity of the physicians that come out of the school. I can't stress enough that you just need to find somewhere that fits you to be successful. Your board scores are pretty much on you regardless of where you go.

My vote goes out for the old ones and the state ones:

KCOM
PCOM
CCOM
DMU
UMDNJ
TCOM
MSU
OSU

TropicalKitty said:

So, I'll try again, what is it about KCOM that is keeping you listers from putting it on your list of "top" schools?

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Probably a bit biased since I attend KCOM ... but it usually makes these 'best schools' type SDN lists. Like you said, it's the oldest, has a ton of highly successful alum, has built a very solid reputation in the health care community (I'm originally from So-Cal and when my mom told her MD physician that I was going to KCOM, he wouldn't stop raving about how much he loves the docs from there, etc), very solid match lists, established rotations, student-forward admin, attached hospital, associated with various, specialized residency programs etc. I highly recommend it and don't think many (if any) people would argue that it belongs on a 'top' list.

The best school will be the one that cbrons attends in the fall. It will be the most fun, have the best post-exam parties and all of the guys will be value leaching off him to meet all the hot nursing and PA students. Any other questions plz?

JaggerPlate said:

My vote goes out for the old ones and the state ones:

KCOM
PCOM
CCOM
DMU
UMDNJ
TCOM
MSU
OSU

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What's the cut-off for "old ones"? KCUMB was established in 1916.

IMHO its the ones that are older, more established, and have good rotation sites. Also ones which their alumni have gotten into residencies at desirable institutions/locations:
PCOM
CCOM
NYCOM
KCOM
MSU-COM (but only if you're IS.. OOS tuition is highway robbery)

After that its all kind of the same or tough to separate out between schools.

Its THIS thread again.....as mentioned before...the older more established schools are the way to go. KCOM is a great school and I would have gone there if I already didnt live in Philly. There are plenty of great DO schools. I would shy away from the newer provisionally accredited schools though. I am sure they are great...I just dont care to be part of a new program again. My grad school program was only a few years old and it had a LOT of kinks that needed to be worked out.

As everyone has said, if you have a choice, go to older/established schools or state-funded schools. However, if you attend a newer schools, you'll be fine too. In the end, medical school is all on YOU.

ND10 said:

As everyone has said, if you have a choice, go to older/established schools or state-funded schools. However, if you attend a newer schools, you'll be fine too. In the end, medical school is all on YOU.

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Yep! The only thing PCOM has that many of the other top DO programs lack is (as Rollo mentioned) location. Look at the faculty members...they arent tied down to PCOM. Many either lecture or have appointments at other Philly med schools. Many earned PhDs from Penn/Jeff/Temple etc. The PCOM name goes a long way around here...which may benefit you when applying for residencies etc.

willen101383 said:

Yep! The only thing PCOM has that many of the other top DO programs lack is (as Rollo mentioned) location. Look at the faculty members...they arent tied down to PCOM. Many either lecture or have appointments at other Philly med schools. Many earned PhDs from Penn/Jeff/Temple etc. The PCOM name goes a long way around here...which may benefit you when applying for residencies etc.

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Well said! To add on to that, it's important when researching schools to see how the surrounding medical schools look at it. For instance, more or less, PCOM is respected by the surround schools–Upenn, Jeff, Temple, Drexel. Not to put Touro NY down but it hasn't been around long enough to compete with Columbia, NYU, Mount Sinai, NYMC yet.

ND10 said:

Well said! To add on to that, it's important when researching schools to see how the surrounding medical schools look at it. For instance, more or less, PCOM is respected by the surround schools–Upenn, Jeff, Temple, Drexel. Not to put Touro NY down but it hasn't been around long enough to compete with Columbia, NYU, Mount Sinai, NYMC yet.

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Yep. While I am a pre clinical student here.....I have lived in Philly for a while and have heard nothing but great stuff about PCOM students.

So welcome! Any questions dont hesitate to ask.

/ back on (this utterly worthless) topic now.

Coastie said:

Definitive #1, no doubt about it: PCOM (the real PCOM, not ga)

Next tier (no particular order)

TCOM
CCOM
NYCOM
MSUCOM

I won't go past there.

The reality is that most schools are pretty close. PCOM is the definitive #1, and there are definitive people at the bottom, but in between you'll probably be OK for the most part.

The key is to look at match lists. I don't care if 1 out of 200 matched ACGME-rads, you have to take it in full. Be careful about match lists that report tons of prelim matches at "top" places. If it's just a prelim-surg or prelim-med, it really doesn't mean much.

Just to throw in some pre-med red meat: Look at MCAT/GPA averages of schools. Sorry guys, but those with lower scores generally have lower quality residency matches, etc. Definitely plays a role in things.

Click to expand...

When you say the real PCOM..isn't PCOM-Ga the same school just a different location aka regional campus. Do PCOM-Ga students not get the same recognition as PCOM students?

JuliaJulia said:

When you say the real PCOM..isn't PCOM-Ga the same school just a different location aka regional campus. Do PCOM-Ga students not get the same recognition as PCOM students?

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No. Totally different faculty and from what I understand curriculum. I am sure its a great program....but it hasnt been in GA for 100+ years like PCOM philly. So you arent going to get that recognition simply because the school hasnt been a part of the "medical landscape" in GA for very long.

cbrons said:

The best school will be the one that cbrons attends in the fall. It will be the most fun, have the best post-exam parties and all of the guys will be value leaching off him to meet all the hot nursing and PA students. Any other questions plz?

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I've seen your game and its alright (but not that good) but if you think the nursing girls at TUCOM are gunna put up with your attitude.... well you might just be right.

willen101383 said:

No. Totally different faculty and from what I understand curriculum. I am sure its a great program....but it hasnt been in GA for 100+ years like PCOM philly. So you arent going to get that recognition simply because the school hasnt been a part of the "medical landscape" in GA for very long.

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You can transfer to the philly campus after your first year if you really want to.

cliquesh said:

You can transfer to the philly campus after your first year if you really want to.

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Really??? In a "no questions asked" kind of way? Or a "PITA but can be done" kind of way.

Well, I only know one guy that transfered, but he said he had no problems transfering. He said he just asked and they were like, "sure."

cliquesh said:

Well, I only know one guy that transfered, but he said he had no problems transfering. He said he just asked and they were like, "sure."

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I'm sure he had a compelling reason rather than just "yo like can I go to philly?"...

He said he had family in the area. How many people do you think dropped out of your class, rollo? 10-15? Plenty of spots open up each year. But, yea, I probably shouldn't have made that comment, hah.

elftown said:

and if people want to play the "Who is Number 1?" game, I turned down PCOM to attend a better school, the best school: UMDNJ-SOM

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We should turn this thread into "name your reasons why you think your school is the best."

So go!

The whole NJ part of your school

This thread is becoming pathetic. To watch everyone defend their school as the best one is laughable. If you don't go to Harvard or Yale, then just quietly go about your business, because no one gives a ****.

Man I tried make this thread devolve way back at post #19

cbrons said:

Man I tried make this thread devolve way back at post #19

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Lol! I tried at #14 too but looks like some people just don't get it! Honestly, its pathetic.

elftown said:

There's a reason PCOM students rotate here. ...and KCUMB students ... and VCOM students...

Someone mentioned US News rankings and left out UMDNJ-SOM. We're in the top 20 for geriatrics of all medical schools in the country. I'm sure PCOM was the best in the "dark ages" like someone mentioned, but it's not the dark ages anymore. Do a search on here and you'll find PCOM students have posted about falling board scores at the school.

And the whole NJ part? Come on. There are buildings in New Jersey for Penn Medicine, Jeff Medicine, and did you see Drexel Medicine just opened up a regional campus in New Jersey where their students can complete "all of their required clinical rotations?" Looks like Philly isn't big enough for all of you. Maybe that's why when you look at PCOM's rotations, you'll see you might find yourself in 6 different states.

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haha DUDE CHILL. I was joking. I have no issues with your school. I would prefer to live in Philly over anywhere in the Peoples Republic of NJ...it really has little to do with my opinions of UNDMJ. I saw a neurologist when I had lyme disease at your school and he was a great doc. Does everyone at PCOM pass boards? No. Does everyone at UMDNJ pass boards? No. Who cares they are both excellent schools; and I am not going to engage in a pissing contest with you over which school is better.

^^ No problem. Both schools are solid and I would attend either.

What does "better" mean anyway. There is no real way to measure this. Even US News rankings are meaningless to me. Are Harvard and Yale BETTER than PCOM and UMDNJ? Who knows? How do you measure that? Do they attract more high level researchers/brighter students because of the "name game".....of course. Does more cutting edge research go on there.....of course.

But do Harvard and Yale produce BETTER physicians? Who knows? You cant measure it by board scores....because perhaps the students are better test takers/studiers and thats why they did better on the boards.

People just THINK they are better because of the aforementioned name game. But is there any way to prove this?

I dunno this is stupid and I am only posting here a lot today to keep from studying...

cbrons said:

The best school will be the one that cbrons attends in the fall. It will be the most fun, have the best post-exam parties and all of the guys will be value leaching off him to meet all the hot nursing and PA students. Any other questions plz?

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You better be going to my school in that case

drctother said:

You better be going to my school in that case

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That would be awesome... for you

gary yogurt said:

This thread is becoming pathetic. To watch everyone defend their school as the best one is laughable. If you don't go to Harvard or Yale, then just quietly go about your business, because no one gives a ****.

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QFTMFT

Unless you go to JHU, Harvard, or UCSF then STFU because none of us are going to the best med school. Quit quibbling.

cbrons said:

That would be awesome... for you

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While you may hold the best parties....your hot nurses will have nothing on mine , 10s and 9s only! haha

You may be able to hold the best post-exam parties, keg stands in the anatomy lab of course?

If only it was possible to survive med school with that kind of attitude

drctother said:

While you may hold the best parties....your hot nurses will have nothing on mine , 10s and 9s only! haha

You may be able to hold the best post-exam parties, keg stands in the anatomy lab of course?

If only it was possible to survive med school with that kind of attitude

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It is....most of my "younger" classmates do it constantly...so have no fear. You will get F'd up in med school.

megathunder said:

QFTMFT

Unless you go to JHU, Harvard, or UCSF then STFU because none of us are going to the best med school. Quit quibbling.

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What makes any of those schools "better" than any other school besides their names? Prove to me they are "better." I wouldnt be able to put up with the probable rampant douchebaggery so for me they 'aint better.

willen101383 said:

It is....most of my "younger" classmates do it constantly...so have no fear. You will get F'd up in med school.

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Oh joy, this goes back to that "is age a factor" thread where I said a 19 year old is too young for medical school and than got trash talked for saying it

Im happy that I took an extra year of Ugrad, and a gap year before med (hopefully only one gap year)....so I have zero urge of going out and getting freshman style drunk

willen101383 said:

haha DUDE CHILL. I was joking. I have no issues with your school. I would prefer to live in Philly over anywhere in the Peoples Republic of NJ...it really has little to do with my opinions of UNDMJ. I saw a neurologist when I had lyme disease at your school and he was a great doc. Does everyone at PCOM pass boards? No. Does everyone at UMDNJ pass boards? No. Who cares they are both excellent schools; and I am not going to engage in a pissing contest with you over which school is better.

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+111 somewhat got wayy defensive about umdnj...respect for umdnj, but they have their own set of problems with fixing the new curriculum and with crumbling state funding which other schools dont deal with... so no need to air out ALL the dirty laundry..

drctother said:

Oh joy, this goes back to that "is age a factor" thread where I said a 19 year old is too young for medical school and than got trash talked for saying it

Im happy that I took an extra year of Ugrad, and a gap year before med (hopefully only one gap year)....so I have zero urge of going out and getting freshman style drunk

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I took FOUR years off before med school lol. There is a definite split between the age groups in our class. I feel like the younger people in my class treat med school as more of a social thing than I do. Sure I like meeting new people, and Ive met a cool group of guys.. but I dont want my social circle to be 100 percent neurotic med students!!

ccc2009 said:

+111 somewhat got wayy defensive about umdnj...respect for umdnj, but they have their own set of problems with fixing the new curriculum and with crumbling state funding which other schools dont deal with... so no need to air out ALL the dirty laundry..

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+1 on the crumbling state funding... I'm from NJ and Gov. Chris Christie has made me have no desire to return