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EdLongshanks

EdLongshanks

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Alright I have a confession to make. I have never taken any class seriously. I don't believe that I have read a single textbook in my entire college career. I even slid through OChem I with an A without learning anything.

This next semester I am finally taking those classes that will actually help in Medical school. Biochemistry, Organic II, Virology, Immunology...

I probably could slide through these courses - get an A and learn little - just like I did in Genetics and Cell Bio. But I really don't think that this is a good idea. I actually don't have to take any courses except OChem II, the rest are just prep for the big time.

Now, I've got the text books and I'm reading them. But now I realize that I have a problem. I fall asleep every time I read more than 2 pages. T-Cells, presenting antigens, B-Cells in the bone marro..... snore.

What is strange, is that I am really interested in this. I find it fascinating. Unfortunately, I'm lying on my bed reading and then I wake up realizing that I have again been dreaming about T-Cells instead of reading about them.

Now, part of this is because I have been trying to work and go to school all at once. That ends day after tomorrow. I'm a full-time student for the first time since the '80's. Maybe I will catch up on sleep over Christmas.

But meanwhile, I fear that I have developed some bad, bad habits. I got a book on studying in Medical school, and it had a lot of info. Unfortunately, I fell asleep while I was reading it.
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If you or anyone else finds out how, it'd be greatly appreciated. So far I just try to read in bursts and take notes from the book to try and stay awake, but this works for abour 15 minutes before I realize I'd rather get back to my job than read through this stuff, but its so interesting -.-
 
Perhaps you're not really a book learner. That's okay. In my undergrad classes, I don't believe we ever used textbooks seriously. Learning came from lectures, but perhaps more importantly, my classmates and I always got together outside of class to study. It was very interactive and cooperative, with everyone asking and answering each other's questions.

I believe I read somewhere that adults tend to be more active learners as opposed to passive learners, so you might benefit from that approach. Do you have classmates you could meet with to study?
 
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mauberley said:
Perhaps you're not really a book learner. That's okay. In my undergrad classes, I don't believe we ever used textbooks seriously. Learning came from lectures, but perhaps more importantly, my classmates and I always got together outside of class to study. It was very interactive and cooperative, with everyone asking and answering each other's questions.

I believe I read somewhere that adults tend to be more active learners as opposed to passive learners, so you might benefit from that approach. Do you have classmates you could meet with to study?
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Somehow, I think that I won't be able to get by with a workaround like that in medical school. I'm trying some different postures. The first mistake is to read while lying down, I think.
 
EdLongshanks said:
Somehow, I think that I won't be able to get by with a workaround like that in medical school. I'm trying some different postures. The first mistake is to read while lying down, I think.
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Ok, so I'm a homeschool mom :) So, here is how I've taught my children their study skills. First, always have a space that is sacred. Meaning- the one and only activity ever occurring in that space is learning. A small table, a nook under the stairs, anywhere- but sacred. If you find yourself daydreaming, get up and leave. Go back in when you are ready. It's a mind game really, but it does work.
Second, read first but don't expect full comprehension. If you try to understand every sentence, you'll get bogged down. Make time to read everything twice. First pass is just for entertainment. Second time, take notes.
Third, recite to an empty room your lesson from only your notes. If you get stuck, look it up-write it in your notes, and start again. You can do this in 10 minutes, it's not meant to be a speech.
***

What has nothing to do with my kids, but I have found very VERY helpful is to limit my sources. I seriously gathered a dozen books, flashcards and software when I started A&P 1. It was awful! Overload meant trying to read everything but learn nothing. So, since then, I try to stick to 1-2 resources that are solid, and go from there.

Like you, I don't try really hard and still get good grades. I think getting good grades is much easier than learning, however, and I'm also nervous about making the fire hose of new material stick.

Trust the process. You'll learn it, because everyone else does. I recall in 1988 I went to culinary school (my current, soon to be former, profession). We had these 7 day classes that were 10 hours long with instructors (half of which were speaking French or German) machine gunning everything at you. We'd get 1 day off and start it again. We were told to memorize every recipe/menu item before day 1 lol, so not much of a day off. You'd come in and it'd start "faster! what's xxxxx?? why this not that??? Who created this?? Where do they grow xxx? Who told you to do that???" They call it pimping. Essentially (loud) public humiliation with the purpose of pointing out how little you know and why you should become a shoemaker instead of a chef:eek:. Just when you thought you might be able to get through a single day without having a pan whipped at your work station, failing the day's service, or being kicked out... you were done and moving on to the next class- new menus, new techniques, new eggshells to walk on. Even our French and Italian language classes were just 7 days long. 2 years went by, graduation came, and off into industry we went. After a few years of working, I realized I knew a lot- a damn lot. Even today, it's in there ---> pointing to my brain :laugh: So, trust the process. Whatever it is that they are doing to medical students, it's working. :xf:
 
CookDeRosa said:
Ok, so I'm a homeschool mom :) So, here is how I've taught my children their study skills. First, always have a space that is sacred. Meaning- the one and only activity ever occurring in that space is learning. A small table, a nook under the stairs, anywhere- but sacred. If you find yourself daydreaming, get up and leave. Go back in when you are ready. It's a mind game really, but it does work.
Second, read first but don't expect full comprehension. If you try to understand every sentence, you'll get bogged down. Make time to read everything twice. First pass is just for entertainment. Second time, take notes.
Third, recite to an empty room your lesson from only your notes. If you get stuck, look it up-write it in your notes, and start again. You can do this in 10 minutes, it's not meant to be a speech.
***

What has nothing to do with my kids, but I have found very VERY helpful is to limit my sources. I seriously gathered a dozen books, flashcards and software when I started A&P 1. It was awful! Overload meant trying to read everything but learn nothing. So, since then, I try to stick to 1-2 resources that are solid, and go from there.

Like you, I don't try really hard and still get good grades. I think getting good grades is much easier than learning, however, and I'm also nervous about making the fire hose of new material stick.

Trust the process. You'll learn it, because everyone else does. I recall in 1988 I went to culinary school (my current, soon to be former, profession). We had these 7 day classes that were 10 hours long with instructors (half of which were speaking French or German) machine gunning everything at you. We'd get 1 day off and start it again. We were told to memorize every recipe/menu item before day 1 lol, so not much of a day off. You'd come in and it'd start "faster! what's xxxxx?? why this not that??? Who created this?? Where do they grow xxx? Who told you to do that???" They call it pimping. Essentially (loud) public humiliation with the purpose of pointing out how little you know and why you should become a shoemaker instead of a chef:eek:. Just when you thought you might be able to get through a single day without having a pan whipped at your work station, failing the day's service, or being kicked out... you were done and moving on to the next class- new menus, new techniques, new eggshells to walk on. Even our French and Italian language classes were just 7 days long. 2 years went by, graduation came, and off into industry we went. After a few years of working, I realized I knew a lot- a damn lot. Even today, it's in there ---> pointing to my brain :laugh: So, trust the process. Whatever it is that they are doing to medical students, it's working. :xf:
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That's really good, Jennifer. That is the first post of that length that I have read that was useful all the way through.
 
Do a search. Get motivated and stay energetic. Develop a strong written plan.

I spent at minimum 10 hours on finding the best study skills in books, on SDN, and anywhere else on the internet.

Those of us planning on attending medical school are professional students. It is the skill you practice over 300 days every year. There are no excuses at this point. You need to be excellent at learning and learning quickly. This is a question of time and commitment.
 
MCAT guy said:
Do a search. Get motivated and stay energetic. Develop a strong written plan.

I spent at minimum 10 hours on finding the best study skills in books, on SDN, and anywhere else on the internet.

Those of us planning on attending medical school are professional students. It is the skill you practice over 300 days every year. There are no excuses at this point. You need to be excellent at learning and learning quickly. This is a question of time and commitment.
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This reminds me of a quote from the beginning of Pilgrim's Progress. The main character is searching for a way to get a burden off of his back. He then meets Worldly Wiseman, who gives him this advice. "With all speed, get thy burden off of thy back."

Yeah, got that.
 
hilarious. you knowwww better than to try to read in bed... danger will robinson :)

no seriously dondothatnomo. i'd say think of how you studied for the mcat, because you KNEW you had to get that done and that you couldn't slack off indefinitely... then do it that way. library, crowded coffee shops, switching locations every few hours, limiting access to the interwebs, noooooott reading lying down... whatevah.

it's just so funny to me that it's such a bad idea but we're all so dumb that we'll believe ourselves that this time we won't fall asleep reading... my mind even tricks me into not waking up. while passed out over my notes i've had half my mind realize i need to be UP and working, i have a test/whatever, and my idiot half of my brain will fool me into thinking that i AM working, i just have to keep trying to figure out this one problem... then i'll solve all of thermodynamics... don't want to break this train of thought..... ;) ahhh good stuff.
 
EdLongshanks said:
This reminds me of a quote from the beginning of Pilgrim's Progress. The main character is searching for a way to get a burden off of his back. He then meets Worldly Wiseman, who gives him this advice. "With all speed, get thy burden off of thy back."

Yeah, got that.
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The only big difference is, the Pilgrim can't remove the burden from his back, nor does he have bountiful resources available to help him evaded only by ignorance or lack of desire.

You can.

SDN, amazon, local library/bookstore, the internet.

You're applying to become a professional student and your asking how to study!?

EdLongshanks said:
I have never taken any class seriously. I don't believe that I have read a single textbook in my entire college career. I even slid through OChem I with an A without learning anything.
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Really? This statement is shocking on many levels.

EdLongshanks said:
The fact is that I haven't really been a good student for the last couple of years. I've made straight A's only because I very carefully calibrate exactly how many points I need to make to get through this class with the extreme minimum of effort. I'm graduating with only 1 credit hour more than required. I've taken the easiest possible classes that I could find to fulfill requirements. (Next semester I am actually taking "Phys Ed 101" online )
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Listen, I commend you on making a career change and juggling family, career, and school. I know that's hard.

The purpose of my posts here are not to discourage or insult you. My purpose is to say, get serious. Re-read your two posts here. The theme is, "not giving my best." You are applying to become a professional student and your future patient's health depends on how well you learn. In the amount of time it's taken you to write your 1000+ SDN posts, you could have learned excellent study skills.

As for me not offering a specific solution. If you seek, you will find.
 
I get you, Longshanks. I didn't really read a textbook until A&P. And that was only because I was interested in the subject. I read parts of my gen chem and bio textbooks last year but I mostly skimmed. I had to get serious with my ochem textbookt this fall, too.

Stop lying down while studying. I personally find that one sacred study space does not work for me. I have several. I find that I retain information better if I mix it up every couple of hours. I rotate between my kitchen table, dining room table, a Starbucks and another cafe. Also, I don't bring my laptop. Too distracting.

I use highlighters, not so much for going back to study later but to keep my place and ensure I'm focusing. For one class, reading before lecture helped. In ochem, I found it more helpful to attend lecture, take notes, read the text, then review the notes. Find the sequence that works for you and for that particular class.

I take few notes on the text. The exception is when I go back over my notes and I absolutely cannot understand something. Then I will suplement with a scribble or two from the text.
 
MCAT guy said:
The only big difference is, the Pilgrim can't remove the burden from his back, nor does he have bountiful resources available to help him evaded only by ignorance or lack of desire.

You can.

SDN, amazon, local library/bookstore, the internet.

You're applying to become a professional student and your asking how to study!?



Really? This statement is shocking on many levels.



Listen, I commend you on making a career change and juggling family, career, and school. I know that's hard.

The purpose of my posts here are not to discourage or insult you. My purpose is to say, get serious. Re-read your two posts here. The theme is, "not giving my best." You are applying to become a professional student and your future patient's health depends on how well you learn. In the amount of time it's taken you to write your 1000+ SDN posts, you could have learned excellent study skills.

As for me not offering a specific solution. If you seek, you will find.
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I repent in sackcloth and ashes. I vow to never again post on SDN until I learn study skills.

....
Ok, I learned. I'll go back to adding to those 1000 posts.
 
katiemaude said:
I get you, Longshanks. I didn't really read a textbook until A&P. And that was only because I was interested in the subject. I read parts of my gen chem and bio textbooks last year but I mostly skimmed. I had to get serious with my ochem textbookt this fall, too.
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I think the motivation is important. I had to learn Chem II and Physics I and II, but I knew that I would be taking the MCAT in 3 months, so it had to be short-term learning. I shook my professors hand after the final and said, "Thanks for teaching me all of this. I take the MCAT in 10 days and I promise you that I will forget everything you taught me as quickly after that as possible." He ended up writing one of my LOR's. He called it "the best <deleted> letter I ever wrote."

I just finished evolution of vertebrates. I got an A in that class without learning anything if I could help it - and this was with a hard professor. I really don't care how many families of dinosaurs there were and I wouldn't give a rat's anatomy for the ratite problem - but I could learn this for couple of days that I needed to know it.

Biochemistry, however, I dropped this last semester, because I was going to make a B without learning it ( my only B since my freshman year) and I need to do more than just pass that course. I'm taking the same professor again this semester. I need to know this stuff. That's why I want to change my habits.

The biggest habit, of course, will simply be not being on call while trying to study. A constant Beep, Beep, Beep is not a good study companion
 
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Seems like if you're getting A's in your classes you're doing just fine to me. I mean what else can you want? There's just no way a (normal) person can remember everything they have read in a textbook for any period of time unless they use that knowledge day in/day out. I believe that's why we have specialty medicine these days: because there's just too much 'stuff' in medicine for one person to know everything.

I never was one to read the textbook back in undergrad, but as of day 1 of post bacc that changed. I kept myself awake by underlining; you can't to to sleep if you are moving your hand every 10 seconds to underline an important phrase/concept/fact. My books are now totally un-sellable because they are marked up to hell. Another advantage to this is it's real easy to skim the chapters over again before the tests, because all the important stuff jumps right back out at you. I'd just re-read all the underlined text, and skip the rest. If you still are falling asleep, it's time to move to a less comfortable chair; nothing wrong with a 5-20 min cat nap every once in a while, though. And for the harder classes, I'd re-write all my notes starting a couple days before the exam. I could usually condense them down into 6-7 pages. Anyway, take that for what it's worth; it got me my 4.0 in post-bacc.
 
ChE04 said:
Seems like if you're getting A's in your classes you're doing just fine to me. I mean what else can you want? There's just no way a (normal) person can remember everything they have read in a textbook for any period of time unless they use that knowledge day in/day out. I believe that's why we have specialty medicine these days: because there's just too much 'stuff' in medicine for one person to know everything.

I never was one to read the textbook back in undergrad, but as of day 1 of post bacc that changed. I kept myself awake by underlining; you can't to to sleep if you are moving your hand every 10 seconds to underline an important phrase/concept/fact. My books are now totally un-sellable because they are marked up to hell. Another advantage to this is it's real easy to skim the chapters over again before the tests, because all the important stuff jumps right back out at you. I'd just re-read all the underlined text, and skip the rest. If you still are falling asleep, it's time to move to a less comfortable chair; nothing wrong with a 5-20 min cat nap every once in a while, though. And for the harder classes, I'd re-write all my notes starting a couple days before the exam. I could usually condense them down into 6-7 pages. Anyway, take that for what it's worth; it got me my 4.0 in post-bacc.
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Thanks for that. I'm going to outline my chapters, that should keep me awake. It is not true, however, that all A's in my classes means that i am learning the material. I just happen to read the professor and pay attention to the syllabus.
 
What's the problem? What did you get on the MCAT? If you can get all As without learning anything and do well on the MCAT then I dont see a problem.
 
gunito said:
What's the problem? What did you get on the MCAT? If you can get all As without learning anything and do well on the MCAT then I dont see a problem.
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lol. Two words: Step 1.

Excellent Step 1 score >>>>>>>>>>>>>> MCAT, pre-med classes
 
MCAT guy said:
lol. Two words: Step 1.

Excellent Step 1 score >>>>>>>>>>>>>> MCAT, pre-med classes
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yea I know I was being sarcastic but I need to put fourth the behavior I expect in return
 
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EdLongshanks said:
Thanks for that. I'm going to outline my chapters, that should keep me awake. It is not true, however, that all A's in my classes means that i am learning the material. I just happen to read the professor and pay attention to the syllabus.
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I'm right there with you Ed, I think we have a lot in common. I set the curve in physics but honestly don't think I learned one single thing the entire year. Honestly. I've gotten pretty good at reading professors and syllabi, but I still have horrible study habits and textbooks put me to sleep in minutes.

I should overload like 28 credits or something insane in my last quarter to FORCE me to develop some kind of structure.
 
gunito said:
What's the problem? What did you get on the MCAT? If you can get all As without learning anything and do well on the MCAT then I dont see a problem.
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Gunito, I stopped replying to you in your thread because we have nothing to say to each other. Posting here, in my thread, with insults just adds noise to the forum. Please don't carry on a personal feud. It's impolite. Just put me on ignore.
 
Hi Ed :hello:

You've got an interesting situation on your hands...and CookDeRosa gave you some interesting feedback that's useful. I'd like to add my two cents, too :)

I was a non-traditional student who purposefully enrolled in a REALLY challenging post-bac pre-med program knowing full well that I probably was NOT going to get a 4.0...and I say this as I was the kid who never really took notes and could slide right through my classes.

But...the challenge inspired me. My professors helped me see the beauty of science and really tickled my brain. In fact, the hardest classes I ever took actually prepared me well for the MCAT and in retrospect, I thank those teachers.

Someone in a post before this used a great word: motivation.

WHAT motivates you? Why do you care about medicine? If it's more than a passing fancy, get to the root of your passion and find ways to apply that to the material you're learning. I promised myself that I wouldn't attempt to go to medical school unless I could appreciate EVERY step of the process - studying for the MCAT included.

Speaking of...it's not just the formulas and facts that you memorized for your courses that will get you the MCAT score you desire...it's the LOGIC behind all the topics! Have you already taken the MCAT? You mention taking courses that will help prepare you for medical school, but I have to warn you the O Chem tested on is mostly from the 1st semester...which might...be...a problem...

Additionally, the adult mind learns very differently than the adolescent mind. I have a totally different set of study habits that I did in undergrad (10 years ago) and I've found that MY study habits are going to suit me perfectly for the educational curriculum of my med school (I start in Fall 2011)! My advice: take lots of breaks while studying, stick to a useful schedule, kick your self in the rear, and dive passionately into the who, what, when, where, and why of all the topics you're learning. Engage in conversation with your professors. Read about related news stories on the web. Lead a study group. BE ACTIVE. (And it sounds like you might need some extra sleep, too.)

My favorite lazy study habit: draw LOTS of colorful diagrams all over posters and cover your bedroom with them. THEN you can lay in bed, staring at them, trying to remember what is going on in each diagram and what you're supposed to memorize.

Best of luck. And what a fun adventure you have in front of you :)
 
EdLongshanks said:
Gunito, I stopped replying to you in your thread because we have nothing to say to each other. Posting here, in my thread, with insults just adds noise to the forum. Please don't carry on a personal feud. It's impolite. Just put me on ignore.
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Yes, which is why I changed what I wrote at 12 last night. You copied what I said previously and disregarded my changed statement.
 
LaurenMCAT said:
I got a 33 on the MCAT, unfortunately that included only a 9 in the Biological sciences, partly because I hadn't taken OChem I or Biochemistry before taking the test. But the grade was good enough to get 4 interviews at the places I most desired to go. I should get accepted at 1 or 2 places after the beginning of the year. One of the places is key because it is financially a very good deal for me. If I don't get in this year - well, I should be able to improve the MCAT score and apply at more than 6 places next year.

I'm not terribly concerned with tests. I'm sure that Step I will be different, but at the undergraduate level, getting good grades is mostly about being a good test taker - and tests are easy for me.

During my interview at Mayo the dean said something that is really interesting to me. He said that the students there are not graded because their motivation should not be to pass a test, but to rather heal their patients. That echoes what you said above about motivation.

For the first time this semester - my last semester in undergrad - I am actually studying medicine. This is the first time that I care. I'm studying immunology and virology and biochemistry. This stuff matters - unlike the Physics I problems of the hypothetical path of a cannon ball in a frictionless atmosphere.
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EdLongshanks said:
Alright I have a confession to make. I have never taken any class seriously. I don't believe that I have read a single textbook in my entire college career. I even slid through OChem I with an A without learning anything.

This next semester I am finally taking those classes that will actually help in Medical school. Biochemistry, Organic II, Virology, Immunology...

I probably could slide through these courses - get an A and learn little - just like I did in Genetics and Cell Bio. But I really don't think that this is a good idea. I actually don't have to take any courses except OChem II, the rest are just prep for the big time.

Now, I've got the text books and I'm reading them. But now I realize that I have a problem. I fall asleep every time I read more than 2 pages. T-Cells, presenting antigens, B-Cells in the bone marro..... snore.

What is strange, is that I am really interested in this. I find it fascinating. Unfortunately, I'm lying on my bed reading and then I wake up realizing that I have again been dreaming about T-Cells instead of reading about them.

Now, part of this is because I have been trying to work and go to school all at once. That ends day after tomorrow. I'm a full-time student for the first time since the '80's. Maybe I will catch up on sleep over Christmas.

But meanwhile, I fear that I have developed some bad, bad habits. I got a book on studying in Medical school, and it had a lot of info. Unfortunately, I fell asleep while I was reading it.
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I've never heard of this kind of problem before, so it's hard to offer a quick solution. I'd try to remedy this issue asap. if you try to slide through medical school, it will be a disaster at best. Once you're the one taking care of patients, long-term retention of facts and understanding of disease is kind of important.
 
I personally won't study near a computer, it's just too distracting or tempting to want to google an example or wiki something. I can do that later.

I often play ambient noise or low volume electronica on my headphones, it's good in noisy environments for concentration.

I go to the library for high volume random information, there's just no way around that.

I have a draw erase board in my room for processes and pathways to draw examples on.
 
Scottish Chap said:
I've never heard of this kind of problem before, so it's hard to offer a quick solution. I'd try to remedy this issue asap. if you try to slide through medical school, it will be a disaster at best. Once you're the one taking care of patients, long-term retention of facts and understanding of disease is kind of important.
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Yes, you understand. I don't think it is as rare as all of that though. I have the impression that many of my fellow pre-meds are able to slide through with 4.0's. After returning to school after 20 years, I realized how bad the grade inflation had gotten. In 1986 a chapter in chemistry did not consist of 5 homework problems and one did not make an A without balancing a single redox reaction.

But, while undergrad has been dumbed down, medicine has gotten more complex - so med school is (or should be) harder than ever. So, since medical school graduation is still 98%, there must be some mechanism to force medical students to not slide through.

I'm just trying to get a jump start on it. This semester won't force me to stop the laziness ( I'm now a full-time student with only 19 hours - this looks like a vacation to me) I'd rather start getting serious now than 8 months from now.
 
EdLongshanks said:
I'm just trying to get a jump start on it. This semester won't force me to stop the laziness ( I'm now a full-time student with only 19 hours - this looks like a vacation to me) I'd rather start getting serious now than 8 months from now.
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Try to be #1 in each course, that will challenge you.
 
yes we should study from goole or books
learn how to study
 
EdLongshanks said:
Yes, you understand. I don't think it is as rare as all of that though. I have the impression that many of my fellow pre-meds are able to slide through with 4.0's. After returning to school after 20 years, I realized how bad the grade inflation had gotten. In 1986 a chapter in chemistry did not consist of 5 homework problems and one did not make an A without balancing a single redox reaction.

But, while undergrad has been dumbed down, medicine has gotten more complex - so med school is (or should be) harder than ever. So, since medical school graduation is still 98%, there must be some mechanism to force medical students to not slide through.

I'm just trying to get a jump start on it. This semester won't force me to stop the laziness ( I'm now a full-time student with only 19 hours - this looks like a vacation to me) I'd rather start getting serious now than 8 months from now.
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It sounds like you have been taking classes at an easy institution. Is it a community college or a small four-year school?

I suppose people like you describe do exist in medical school. A guy in my class got a lot of honors in MSI and it never seemed to phase him, but he kind of came apart in MSII when there was the requirement to understand before Step 1. He ended up not matching. Not not sure if the two are related.

It's important that you try to encode information in your long term memory. While the day-to-day work of medicine makes a great short term memory useful (there are around 30 things to track on each patient every day and the team keeps changing so a great short term memory is helpful), you kind of need that long term memory and understanding to take care of patients well.

I wouldn't worry about getting a head start - the biochem, micro etc. taught in college is very different from that taught in medical school. Just practice recall a week later after you have learned something, and fight to encode the details in your long term memory. Repetition is pretty much the only way.
 
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Scottish Chap said:
It sounds like you have been taking classes at an easy institution. Is is a community college of small four-year school?

I suppose people like you describe do exist in medical school. A guy in my class got a lot of honors in MSI and it never seemed to phase him, but he kind of came apart in MSII when there was the requirement to understand before Step 1. He ended up not matching. Not not sure if the two are related.

It's important that you try to encode information in your long term memory. While the day-to-day work of medicine makes a great short term memory useful (there are around 30 things to track on each patient every day and the team keeps changing so a great short term memory is helpful), you kind of need that long term memory and understanding to take care of patients well.

I wouldn't sorry about getting a head start - the biochem, micro etc. taught in college is very different from that taught in medical school. Just practice recall a week later after you have learned something, and fight to encode the details in your long term memory. Repetition is pretty much the only way.
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No, you don't understand. I don't have a weakness in the ability to have long-term memory. I can encode things long-term if I like. I've just been slacking off.because I was trying to work and go to school at the same time. I know how to have long-term memory. A few years ago I wasn't going to school and needed to exercise my mind. I memorized dozens of chapters of the Bible and can still quote them, years later.

I don't believe that my 2 schools are significantly easier than others. Not only my MCAT scores, but the scores of other people in my schools are above 30 - so they are at least average schools.

I think the poster that mentioned motivation hit the nail on the head. Trying to care about work and school while also studying for the MCAT, applying, and going to interviews got to me. I believe that I was burned out.

I've been going through the books for next semester. As soon as my layoff happened, 2 days ago, I re-arranged my office to break out of my work-a-little, study-a-little, habits. I'm feeling a lot better now. It didn't take long to go through the lymphocyte lineage stuff and I am understanding - as opposed to just learning enough to get by.
 
EdLongshanks said:
No, you don't understand. I don't have a weakness in the ability to have long-term memory. I can encode things long-term if I like. I've just been slacking off.because I was trying to work and go to school at the same time. I know how to have long-term memory. A few years ago I wasn't going to school and needed to exercise my mind. I memorized dozens of chapters of the Bible and can still quote them, years later.

I don't believe that my 2 schools are significantly easier than others. Not only my MCAT scores, but the scores of other people in my schools are above 30 - so they are at least average schools.

I think the poster that mentioned motivation hit the nail on the head. Trying to care about work and school while also studying for the MCAT, applying, and going to interviews got to me. I believe that I was burned out.

I've been going through the books for next semester. As soon as my layoff happened, 2 days ago, I re-arranged my office to break out of my work-a-little, study-a-little, habits. I'm feeling a lot better now. It didn't take long to go through the lymphocyte lineage stuff and I am understanding - as opposed to just learning enough to get by.
Click to expand...
Your thought process seems jumbled with lots of contradictions. I think this last post might explain a lot (burn out). A vacation is probably all that is needed, so it sounds like you are fixing yourself. Merry Christmas.
 
Last edited:
Scottish Chap said:
Your thought process seems jumbled with lost of contradictions. I think this last post might explain a lot (burn out). A vacation is probably all that is needed, so it sounds like you are fixing yourself. Merry Christmas.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think you're on the right path by accepting you need to change. A chapter in chemistry consists of only 5 homework problems if that's what you make of it. If you want to learn, you'll have to do a lot more than that. You seem smart enough to figure it out without all of us chiming in and telling you how to do it. The trick is making yourself do it and you've acknowledged you need to do that. Good luck to you.
 
Ed - I'm excited to see how you do during this admissions process and through med school! It sounds like you have a great path ahead of you...best of luck on your journey and I hope that whatever you DO learn about studying wisely, you'll be able to pass that knowledge onto others who had/have similar challenges.

Cheers! And happy vacation time!
 
Ed,

Not to hijack the thread, but I'd be interested to know how you trained yourself to encode things to long term memory at will. I have always struggled with with this very thing. Are you using a peg/hook system or some other such device? Feel free to PM me or I'll start a new thread if anyone else happens to be interested in this topic. That is if Ed is willing to divulge his secrets! :)
 
CaptainObvious said:
Ed,

Not to hijack the thread, but I'd be interested to know how you trained yourself to encode things to long term memory at will. I have always struggled with with this very thing. Are you using a peg/hook system or some other such device? Feel free to PM me or I'll start a new thread if anyone else happens to be interested in this topic. That is if Ed is willing to divulge his secrets! :)
Click to expand...

ScottishChap already said it. Repetition and the rule of 3. Learn it 100% on day 1, again on day 3, again at week 3 and again at month 3.

I, personally, have never used memory tricks. I hear, however, that medical school depends heavily on mnemonics. I hope that these mnemonics are something you can search and find, rather than making up.
 
This is a funny thread, no offense. A non-trad who barely tries, gets As, and now asks for study habits. Really? If you are really brilliant as you say here, then you should be able to find an answer to this question on your own. It's not that hard... It's called opening book, reading the words, and studying them. Not too hard.
 
Reading comprehension, retention and endurance is a skill that is developed over time. Since you haven't read your books thus far in undergrad, it is not surprising that you can not read for more than a short stint. Force yourself to read a little everyday. It doesn't matter whether the reading material is online, in a magazine, or "perish the thought," in your textbooks. Don't expect to be a speed reader over night. It will take time. If you have the spare cash and you can discipline yourself to improve your skill, you can look into speed-reading programs. Two programs I know of are "EyeQ" and "RocketReader." They may be worth looking into considering your problem.
 
Strauss6868 said:
Reading comprehension, retention and endurance is a skill that is developed over time. Since you haven't read your books thus far in undergrad, it is not surprising that you can not read for more than a short stint. Force yourself to read a little everyday. It doesn't matter whether the reading material is online, in a magazine, or "perish the thought," in your textbooks. Don't expect to be a speed reader over night. It will take time. If you have the spare cash and you can discipline yourself to improve your skill, you can look into speed-reading programs. Two programs I know of are "EyeQ" and "RocketReader." They may be worth looking into considering your problem.
Click to expand...

Since I made a 13 in VR on the MCAT, I doubt that I need to develop "reading comprehension" or learn speed reading.

The question that I asked in this thread was so poorly expressed that few people to no one understood it. I don't have intelligence, memory, or reading comprehension deficits. In fact, am better in all of these cases than 99.9% of the general public and even 90% of pre-meds. In fact, I am so good at these things that I have been able to avoid actually working at scholastics. Previously, I thought that many other pre-meds were in the same shape. I no longer believe this.

Let's just drop the whole thing. I really don't think this discussion is useful.
 
Why do you feel the need to brag about how smart you are?
 
I know what you're talking about Ed, although I do see how many people think it is coming across as bragging. The last 2 years when I did my pre-med work while working full time the only book I ever read out of was Organic, and that's just because my prof had very short lectures and just said over and over "You have to read or you'll fail." Well, I wasn't born knowing organic so I only had one choice. ;) I ended up with a 3.95 over that time period. I was in no way interested in retaining the info, so I didn't bother putting too much effort into it, a 91 is the same as 100 at the school I attended. I didn't need an extra gold star.

There's a lot of good info here (I discovered a lot of it during organic). I didn't have time for study groups (and I'm not much for groups anyway), so I tended to talk to myself a lot, because I am very much an auditory learner. :laugh: Being a chemistry teacher, I started doing weekly organic "Did you know?" mini-lessons with my students and linking it to articles I found on real world organic chem they would understand. I think that helped me immensely.

The suggestion to diagram things and keep them on your walls is brilliant. I did that a lot. Also, having a secure study place and not burning through all the info at once will help a lot. Don't lie down, sit in a recliner, or anything that might accidentally slip into a position in which you could easily sleep.

Lastly, don't worry about being chided for not reading textbooks. They are boring. Sometimes you do have to read them, but if it's information you'd never need again and you're doing fine in the class, why bother? School is not an effort in masochism. I have to remind my students on a daily basis that their chem book is neither a doorstop nor a drool-catcher, but sometimes looking through it I wonder. ;)

Good luck, and if you come across any other good ideas for studying please share. :thumbup:
 
EdLongshanks said:
The question that I asked in this thread was so poorly expressed that few people to no one understood it. I don't have intelligence, memory, or reading comprehension deficits. In fact, am better in all of these cases than 99.9% of the general public and even 90% of pre-meds. In fact, I am so good at these things that I have been able to avoid actually working at scholastics. Previously, I thought that many other pre-meds were in the same shape. I no longer believe this.
Click to expand...

I think that you have discovered one thing. Physicians may not be necessarily that much smarter than people in other similar professions. Many are just average people who have worked hard to get to where they are at. Don't tell anyone! It's a secret!

May I have some of your neurons, please? Just a few? :D
 
StudyShy said:
I think that you have discovered one thing. Physicians may not be necessarily that much smarter than people in other similar professions. Many are just average people who have worked hard to get to where they are at. Don't tell anyone! It's a secret!

May I have some of your neurons, please? Just a few? :D
Click to expand...

No, I guess I haven't discovered that. Is it true? I would expect that a crowd of people who can (on average) get 3.7 GPA in hard college classes and score 30+ on the MCAT are something above the average Joe.

Now, I have discovered that doesn't mean that most of them are casually brilliant. Some of them are simply 120 IQ's who work hard. But I would be frightened at the thought that the medical profession is run by people who are not a couple of steps ahead of the general population when it came to analytical ability. I don't believe that this is true.
 
EdLongshanks said:
No, I guess I haven't discovered that. Is it true? I would expect that a crowd of people who can (on average) get 3.7 GPA in hard college classes and score 30+ on the MCAT are something above the average Joe.

Now, I have discovered that doesn't mean that most of them are casually brilliant. Some of them are simply 120 IQ's who work hard. But I would be frightened at the thought that the medical profession is run by people who are not a couple of steps ahead of the general population when it came to analytical ability. I don't believe that this is true.
Click to expand...

Doctors aren't smarter people, they're just harder workers...

For proof, all you need to do is look at the average premed.
 
ChE04 said:
Doctors aren't smarter people, they're just harder workers...

For proof, all you need to do is look at the average premed.
Click to expand...

Disagree completely. Doctors are on average in the very high percentage of their high school class and at the higher end of their college class.

For proof, go hang out in a Wal-Mart for a few hours then spend that night partying with your college's business students. Pre meds are a step above and those that actually get accepted are a step above that.
 
The OP is sad that he thought most pre-meds are so brilliantly smart that they don't have to study. He is apparently shocked that most study a lot or even excessively.

Hmmm. I wonder then why the average pre-med has to study 300+ hours for the MCAT just to reach that 30 on a test. If pre-meds were really that mentally gifted, they probably wouldn't need prep courses or do more than 1-2 practice tests before the real deal.

In sum,

Walmart population<average pre-med<medical student<Edlongshanks<Stephen Hawking
 
didanawisgi said:
Disagree completely. Doctors are on average in the very high percentage of their high school class and at the higher end of their college class.

For proof, go hang out in a Wal-Mart for a few hours then spend that night partying with your college's business students. Pre meds are a step above and those that actually get accepted are a step above that.
Click to expand...

Because of work ethic and motivation, not raw intelligence. The phrase 'if you put your mind to it, you can do anything' applies here. Just take a look at the "low gpa acceptance" thread in this forum. Granted there are some stellarly dumb people and some smart ones, but on average I think we're all about the same.

And if, as I believe Longshanks was, we are including difficulty of subject matter, then compare an upper level engineering class to an upper level bio class. They are not even in the same ballpark... not even the same sport.


NuttyEngDude said:
but in a fist fight:

Walmart population>average pre-med>medical student>Stephen Hawking
Click to expand...

lol
 
ChE04 said:
And if, as I believe Longshanks was, we are including difficulty of subject matter, then compare an upper level engineering class to an upper level bio class. They are not even in the same ballpark... not even the same sport.
Click to expand...

Most certainly. That's why such few pre-meds choose to study engineering before med school.

Walmart is scary, and I would not want to get into a fight with anyone there. :laugh:
 
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