End of the road (UCLA v. Harvard v. Penn)

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Decisions, decisions...

  • Harvard

    Votes: 103 56.3%

  • Penn

    Votes: 18 9.8%

  • UCLA

    Votes: 62 33.9%
  • Total voters
    183
U

uclaDDS101

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I'm finally at the end of the process. I've been receiving a good number of PM's by people just curious for an update on my progress. After all, I've been thinking about applying since 2009 (after I took my DAT). Ultimately, I waited a year and applied this past cycle (so that I could have a bachelor's degree before dental school).

But it's finally over. The dental schools have made their decisions, and it's time for me to decide. I know these types of threads are a dime a dozen, but bear with me if you can provide some useful input. I would sincerely appreciate it.

Harvard
Projected Total Cost: $293,788
Pros:
  • Amazing didactic curriculum (l prefer the fact that our class is combined with med students, and I actually don't mind that we don't start preclinical until right before 3rd year.)
  • I will enjoy my time away from LA (I've been here forever, and I will probably settle down here in the end. 4 years away from home, especially in Boston, would be an irreplaceable experience for me.)
  • I've always wanted to go to Harvard (It's always been a naive goal of mine to go to Harvard. Now that I've been there, it seems to me like I'd be a good fit. Isn't that what people say is most important? Sure, I could potentially do my post-grad work there. But I'd assume as I get older, I might want to stay closer to the area where I plan on settling down.)
Cons:
  • Cost (It's my most expensive option. What's the price tag on what I would believe would be an amazing once-in-a-lifetime experience?)
  • Weather (I'm not a huge fan of snowy winters and humid summers. But it's not like I'm going to necessarily deal with this for the rest of my life. It's only 4 years.)

Penn (w/ Dean's Scholarship)
Projected Total Cost: $248,272
Pros:
  • Another amazing curriculum overall (especially the externship requirement)
  • I could do a dual degree program with a MS Bioengineering (This is a very good option for me and my career goals)
  • Again, I can get out of LA (same reason as above)
Cons:
  • It still is a little pricey. However, it is affordable, especially with the scholarship.
  • Philly (I'm not a huge fan of Philly. But it is a change of scenery from LA.)

UCLA (w/ Dean's and Regents Scholarships)
Projected Total Cost: $147,191 (Living expenses + Supplies + Other stuff)
Pros:
  • Familiarity (I know this place in and out. I've seen students progress through all four years. I know what to expect. I've witnessed the great success that graduates achieve. I have good friends here (faculty and students). It would be a remarkably easy transition. I even have a nice apartment arrangement set up.)
  • Cost (My Dean's Schol was a full ride, and it was a great honor when the dean offered it to me. Before you call me an idiot for considering turning down a full ride, remember that cost isn't the only factor for me (otherwise, I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of making a pro/con list..). Additionally, they are only really covering my tuition and fees. So it's not a totally free experience.)
  • Dual degree (I could get a MS Oral Biology within the 4 years of dental school. Different from other schools which may take more than 4 years for the 2 degrees.)
  • Weather (Sunny and 75 degrees year round will definitely be missed. But it'll still be here if/when I come back.)
Cons:
  • Familiarity (Yes, this is a pro and a con. A big part of me wants to leave the place that I've become so acquainted with and move somewhere that I can begin anew. It also gives me a chance to break free a little from some of the expectations that await me here at UCLA.)
  • Location (What a weird thing to say about southern CA. But, believe it or not, I am looking to get out of LA, even for just 4 years. Either I'll love my new location, and consider staying there, an opportunity I wouldn't have otherwise -OR- I'll hate it and move back to LA as I originally planned. Win-win situation in my eyes.)


Of course, all of these schools are great. They all have promising research opportunities, which are important to me. They all provide me with the option to develop into any type of practitioner I want to be. For those of you who say that I might become a better general dentist (if I choose that career) from Penn, it would be important to know that I would do a PGY-1 regardless of where I go. Most likely, though, I do plan on specializing. Obviously, I'm not just viewing this as a numbers game (otherwise UCLA, here I come!); I view this as a ruminative decision that could go any way.

I will be thinking about this for the next 2 weeks, so any input would be greatly appreciated. I will add new pros and cons to the list as they come to me or as you guys suggest them. And if you actually read through all this, I appreciate it, and I'm impressed with your attention span.
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In my opinion, I would go to Harvard. It seems to have everything you're looking for. Name, location, research, etc. Boston is a great city, I hear the med campus is beautiful, and it is such a priceless experience getting out of wherever you're from and experiencing life on the other coast. And exactly, you're prob returning to LA anyways so go out and experience the world before settling down. It is a win-win and from your post, it even seems like you're leaning towards it. Philly is ehh, and UCLA sounds great again because of the full ride & familiar, but i understand how it is a con too. I know for me, I want to get out of where I grew up. And even settle down somewhere else after I finish my schooling.

And dental school is expensive no matter what. it's all an investment. So make it worth your money. :)
 
I would go to UCLA, and then save the $146,597 for a future practice (or for a year-long vacation to Boston after you graduate!) lol. Also do you plan on specializing? I've seen it on this forum before, but sometimes people go to their state school for ds, and then go out-of-state for a residency in order to get the change of scenery that you're interested in.
 
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I would also go to harvard... Boston is an amazing city (despite the cold weather) and the education is obviously top notch... Also I think over the course of a long career the harvard name and training are worth more than $150,000...there are a couple of harvard dentists in my area and all the parents here bring their families there cuz they are so impressed with the harvard name and they are also amazingly well trained... Good luck in making your decision
 
All your options are great schools. Considering your work ethic and your scores, you'll most likely be top of any class and be able to specialize in any program with ease. Therefore, imo its really up to location and cost.

Saving over half tuition by going to UCLA over Harvard...is quite a feat; however, going to Harvard itself is a feat in its own. I don't know. I guess theres some kind of ego booster when you name drop Harvard, but is it worth the 300k tuition? Hmm, I would probably go there if it was on my parent's dime, but I'm paying tuition costs myself...so I would rather choose the cheaper option. Anyways, good luck!
 
UCLA. i understand your need to explore another city but you shouldn't ignore the amount of $$ you'll save. spend this summer traveling if you want to get out of LA for a while. to live and die in LA
 
sounds like you're already set on Harvard..

well I guess we can be friends in another lifetime hahah
 
Penn.....HANDS DOWN BEST CHOICE:):)

Harvard has a beautiful campus, but Penn (in my humble opinion) makes better dentists. Philly is a pretty cool town and the weather is better than Boston.:laugh::laugh:

If it is all about the money, go to UCLA. Regardless, you have great choices!!
 
Go to Harvard. Make us fellow UCLA alumni proud. And as you mentioned, It will be a great life experience. Even though you got a scholarship, money shouldn't be the deciding factor in the end. I was lucky enough to get a scholarship from a few schools, but honestly, if I got into Harvard I would have gone. ( That is if I didn't get into my number one choice "UCSF").

Life Experience > Money
 
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UCSFDentistry said:
Go to Harvard. Make us fellow UCLA alumni proud. And as you mentioned, It will be a great life experience. Even though you got a scholarship, money shouldn't be the deciding factor in the end. I was lucky enough to get a scholarship from a few schools, but honestly, if I got into Harvard I would have gone. ( That is if I didn't get into my number one choice "UCSF").

Life Experience > Money
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Actually according to your post "Life experience = money"
 
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Penn, you're getting a scholarship and they have a program that would meet your career goals, plus you'd be happier away from LA. you must have amazing stats:thumbup::thumbup:
 
UCLA; Boston weather is atrocious, and Harvard is way too expensive, save your money and your sanity. Going to Harvard doesn't automatically guarantee an irreplaceably good experience either.

The grass is always greener.
 
UCLA or Harvard. Boston winters suck, but if you're dead set on specializing and like the Harvard name, then you might as well reach for the stars.
 
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Kahr said:
UCLA; Boston weather is atrocious, and Harvard is way too expensive, save your money and your sanity. Going to Harvard doesn't automatically guarantee an irreplaceably good experience either.

The grass is always greener.
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I definitely know where you are coming from. I just interviewed in Boston last week, and the weather made it quite an experience. However, the cost of attending Harvard is actually about the same as attending UCLA (in-state and without a scholarship). So for most Californians, attending Harvard wouldn't be a terrible financial decision. But my UCLA scholarship does complicate that fact..

But definitely thanks for your input. I do agree that 'the grass is always greener...' Even if that grass is snow...
 
7 Iron said:
I would go to UCLA, and then save the $146,597 for a future practice (or for a year-long vacation to Boston after you graduate!) lol. Also do you plan on specializing? I've seen it on this forum before, but sometimes people go to their state school for ds, and then go out-of-state for a residency in order to get the change of scenery that you're interested in.
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I completely agree. It's a $146,597 plus interest. Over 10 years, that becomes over $210k.

There's a lot of stuff you can do with $200k. Vacation (to both Boston and Philly), buying a house, car, etc.

Plus, UCLA is definitely a name you can be proud of on your diploma.
 
I know a guy who dropped out Harvard after his first year there. He reapplied and became my classmate at UCLA.

After graduating from UCLA, I moved to another state for my ortho residency. After facing the first miserably cold winter away from home, I realized that there is no place like the warm sunny Southern Cal. And the foods are much better and cheaper in LA. I am glad that my ortho program was only 2 year long.
 
hey, i saw that u also got into columbia. Any reason you're taking that out of the running and just focusing on the other 3 schools?
 
anonymouse1 said:
hey, i saw that u also got into columbia. Any reason you're taking that out of the running and just focusing on the other 3 schools?
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My Columbia deposit was due on Feb. 4th, and I didn't turn it in. I would have loved to live in New York. However, I wouldn't have given up the full ride at UCLA for Columbia. It was tough to turn down New York though.
 
uclaDDS101 said:
My Columbia deposit was due on Feb. 4th, and I didn't turn it in. I would have loved to live in New York. However, I wouldn't have given up the full ride at UCLA for Columbia. It was tough to turn down New York though.
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I think one of the biggest things you may overlook is diversity. I'm assuming that you are from California your entire life. Well, lets just say, California's diversity doesn't extend towards other states. Growing up in the Northeast, it was normal for me, an Asian women, to be the only minority in a classroom, restaurant, or shopping complex. You might feel out of place sometimes, and a tad bit lonely.

Even though California has its budget problems, its nice to see everyone from every race intermingling in the environment. Good luck trying to get that good pho, korean bbq, chinese food, and latin flavours elsewhere. Also, good luck trying to find that strong diverse community, that I wish I had growing up, in another state.

P.S. This isn't a knockdown post of other states, but rather, a realistic observation. I know every state has its communities, diverse populations etc, but really you can't beat a UC or CA in general when it comes to diversity. Good luck with your decision!
 
Isn't UCLA tuition, fees, and apartment housing 280k total for in-state? So 280k-100k scholarship = 180k...?

Or are you doing the commuter budget?
 
If your heart is truly set on Harvard--set on fulfilling a longtime dream--then don't sacrifice this opportunity and risk regretting it for the rest of your life. On numbers alone, UCLA is the obvious choice, but it's not all numbers.

If you were on the fence about two schools, I'd say let money be the deciding factor, but that doesn't look like the case here. The $150K difference is a substantial sum of money, but, in the context of what you'll earn in your lifetime, it certainly doesn't have to be the trump card in this decision.
 
UndergradGuy7 said:
Isn't UCLA tuition, fees, and apartment housing 280k total for in-state? So 280k-100k scholarship = 180k...?

Or are you doing the commuter budget?
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My scholarship was around 35k a year or 140k total.
 
I would go with UCLA with the scholarship being that much. But in the end it's up to you. I will tell you though, that winter weather sucks, even after getting used to it for years.
 
Rainee said:
Growing up in the Northeast, it was normal for me, an Asian women, to be the only minority in a classroom, restaurant, or shopping complex. You might feel out of place sometimes, and a tad bit lonely.
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Are you from Vermont or New Hampshire? Boston has plenty of diversity.
 
uclaDDS101 said:
My scholarship was around 35k a year or 140k total.
Click to expand...

I take back my previous post. Go to UCLA. That is an awesome scholarship. I only got like half that amount and I thought mine was awesome. Go to UCLA! They definitely really want you. And if you did undergrad there you already know how great it is. When are you expecting to make your decision?
 
I would go with Harvard. 140K might look big chunk of money now but when you graduate from Harvard, you will definitely know it is worth it. Please do not sell your life-long dream at 140K which won't affect your later life at all. It is not just your dream, it is also your parent's dream. Give your parents some special treat for their endless love and sacrifice.
 
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Go with what you think you will regret the least.
 
to the op, how come you have a 3.97 overall gpa? what class held you back?
 
If I were in your shoes, I would go to Harvard. My reasoning is based off the following:

1.) You have never lived outside of LA, which you claim is a concern for you. Although the weather in Boston might be a nice as that in LA, you will certainly learn a great deal about yourself getting away from home. Once you move out of your comfort zone and away from your many friends, family members, and colleagues, you will quickly be hit with the inevitable reality that you must build a new life around you. It is exciting yet it can be stressful. I moved away from my family and friends immediately after college in Idaho to do Genetics research at the NIH in Maryland, a once in a lifetime experience. It was different than anything I had ever done before but being able to branch out in the limited time we have in life makes it exciting! This brings me to my next point.....

2.) You said that you know what to expect in your dental education at UCLA. This is good. I am positive that going to UCLA will enable you to fulfill whatever career path you choose in dentistry. However, you like the med curriculum, which is obviously top-notch and something that UCLA does not have. UCLA and Harvard both have good research opportunities and provide you with the tools to excel. I would expect that getting a different type of didactic experience (medicine-based) will make you think of dentisty, disease, and your research interests differently. This might make you a different but better dentist than what you could have imagined. Maybe not. But the uncertainty of it is what makes this so exciting!!! Just remember, they do have their academically superior reputation because their graduates continuously prove this over and over again. I would want to be a part of that.....

3.) Like you said, you can always go back to Cali for post-grad with your fantastic education. And maybe you wont ......but either way you will know more about yourself and gain a better understanding of what you really like.

4.) Cost of dental school is always an issue but I would not put this in the way of going to the place where I feel like a "good fit." It will be paid back when you are done and you cannot buy a life experience of this magnitude.

5.) You will have expectations at both Harvard and UCLA. However, given your experience and reputation at UCLA, your expectations will be higher than that of Harvard. There is nothing wrong with great expectations from others, but keep in mind that if you live up to your own expectations and go to Harvard, you will have two great reputations in two world-reknown dental communities. This will certainly only help you in whatever career path you choose. In my opinion and as someone who loves challenges, I would want to see if I could make just as good or a better rep than what I had in UCLA at Harvard.


Good work and good luck with everything. Go for what your gut tells you. The rest is just details
 
ChubbyBaby said:
Are you from Vermont or New Hampshire? Boston has plenty of diversity.
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Agreed (that the north east does have its diverse places), but Harvard is also an hour outside of Boston. I think the diversity factor applies best when the school is actually in the city, with say something like NYU or Columbia actually being in NYC, whereas Cornell (like Harvard) wouldn't have the same level of diversity as the aforementioned.
 
Kahr said:
Agreed (that the north east does have its diverse places), but Harvard is also an hour outside of Boston. I think the diversity factor applies best when the school is actually in the city, with say something like NYU or Columbia actually being in NYC, whereas Cornell (like Harvard) wouldn't have the same level of diversity as the aforementioned.
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:slap: Not unless they moved Boston. And what does any of this have to do with anything?!
 
shopsteward said:
Go with what you think you will regret the least.
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Exactly. Will you regret an extra $150K over the course of a career where you'll make that many times over? Probably not. Could you end up regretting not taking a shot at a lifelong dream? Not saying you definitely would, but it sure is possible.

Good luck, man! :thumbup: You're in one hell of a position, have to say!
 
gigawatt said:
:slap: Not unless they moved Boston. And what does any of this have to do with anything?!
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OP is Asian. If he cares diversity, then it may influence his choice, and if he doesn't care about diversity, then throw that factor out of the equation. I'm just pointing out something that OP may have overlooked. To me, diversity is one of the top factors in school decisions. To others, they don't really care. :p

Edit: Lived in "suburbia", Massachusetts.
 
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Kahr said:
Agreed (that the north east does have its diverse places), but Harvard is also an hour outside of Boston. I think the diversity factor applies best when the school is actually in the city, with say something like NYU or Columbia actually being in NYC, whereas Cornell (like Harvard) wouldn't have the same level of diversity as the aforementioned.
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Harvard is like 15 minutes from Boston via their transit.
 
Kahr said:
Agreed (that the north east does have its diverse places), but Harvard is also an hour outside of Boston. I think the diversity factor applies best when the school is actually in the city, with say something like NYU or Columbia actually being in NYC, whereas Cornell (like Harvard) wouldn't have the same level of diversity as the aforementioned.
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You're thinking Harvard College, which is actually only about 30 minutes away from downtown Boston.
 
Kahr said:
Are you guys done yet? :p I ADMITTED MY FAIL!!
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Oh whoops. Haha. But yeah, it is weird that there is a town named Harvard in MA, and neither Harvard undergrad, nor med are located there.
 
OP is Korean-American and Koreans love Harvard...

Harvard is something special to everyone and even more if one's Korean.

I would go with Harvard without a doubt
 
I don't know much about the schools, besides that they are all top notch institutions. I can tell you, however, about sucky winter weather. I live in Missouri and every winter we get hit pretty hard with snow/ice. I can tell you that waking up early and stepping outside to make your way to school has to be much better if it's 70 degrees outside than it is in sub-zero temps. Nobody in LA has seasonal affective disorder. On a side note: If you do end up going to Harvard, the fall and spring are really wonderful. I went to present research at MIT in the fall and it was beautiful.
 
If cost is an issue then UCLA, otherwise Harvard. I voted Harvard. :idea:
 
Btw, I received a couple PMs, and I thought I would answer them generally here for clarification.

Some people (not on this thread) have personally encouraged me to attend Harvard, also admitting to me that they would additionally like a chance at my scholarship after I turn it down. However, if I choose not to attend UCLA, my scholarship unfortunately will not be redistributed to someone else in the entering class. The Dean made it clear to me that a scholarship in this amount is not offered to applicants in general, and it was only appropriated for my personal recruitment under his discretion.

Despite this, they may instead make available one of the more traditional scholarships (10k Dean's and 5k/year Regents) to one of you. You never know.

Sorry about the confusion if there was any.
 
somedayover said:
Forgive me... it was sfoskn lol

I was confused because both of you graduated from UCLA and have 27AA

Sorry :D
Click to expand...

I figured. That mixup happens rather often. Trust me, though, we are very different people.
 
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