So i graduated with a cumulative GPA of 2.94. My science GPA is like a 2.0. I literally got C's on almost every science class except freshmen and my last semester. I was really depressed and unmotivated.It's not that i was stupid...it was that I was in a very bad place mentally during my years in college I finally picked myself up and I realize i really do want to be a doctor. I asked a professor and she told me to go the grad school and get a masters degree. I am also going to apply to one year masters program. I'm planning on taking the MCAT on may 7th. I know there's no chance I'm going to get in even if i do well on my MCAT. Hell, I probably won't even get into grad schools. I'm looking for feedbacks...what are some viable options for me at this stage. Retake all those classes? that's a lot...and I don't really have money. Any help would be great. Thanks.
So what should I do...
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I would say pass on the MCAT. The main reason is that you indicated you want MD and not MD or DO. The MCAT is good for 2-3 years at schools and GPA repair is going to take longer than that. Also a masters degree isn't going to change your undergrad GPA so it would be a large waste of your time.
If you really do want to be a doctor, I think your only viable option is to start retaking classes and take advantage of the DO grade replacement policy. I don't want to make fun of the situation but I am assuming you have or are pretty close to a degree so your GPA isn't going to move much with taking more classes. i hate saying it but if you aren't interested in the DO pathway, you may need to find another career. A 2.0 science is horrible. you wouldn't need to retake all of the classes but enough to get your GPA competitive (which would be fewer than you think with DO schools). You still have a long road ahead though.
If you really do want to be a doctor, I think your only viable option is to start retaking classes and take advantage of the DO grade replacement policy. I don't want to make fun of the situation but I am assuming you have or are pretty close to a degree so your GPA isn't going to move much with taking more classes. i hate saying it but if you aren't interested in the DO pathway, you may need to find another career. A 2.0 science is horrible. you wouldn't need to retake all of the classes but enough to get your GPA competitive (which would be fewer than you think with DO schools). You still have a long road ahead though.
I already have the degree and that's my final GPA. My years in college were rough due to family and money problems. I also wasn't motivated until my last semester in college which I got all A's and 1 B. I think one of those 1 and 1/2 year grad programs/masters would help me. If i do well in them doesn't they take look at that GPA too? I also am interested in DO, but I want to try going to med school, even if i have very little chance. Also, where would i retake my classes? at a community college? So you also happen to have link to the DO replacement policy? Thanks a lot.
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DO IS med school bro. You need to do a little more research - DO's have all the same rights, responsibilities, and privileges as MDs. And right now, your GPA isn't good enough for either. With a lot of work, you might become competitive for DO.
To do that, you need to take undergrad level classes at a 4 year school, not cc. You need to get all A's. A master's wont help you at all - it's basically an EC - the GPA you get there doesnt matter unless you get <3.5, in which case you're done. DO grade replacement is simply that if you take the same class twice, your newest grade takes the place of the old one.
^ can you take the same classes if you already got a degree? How do you even apply to enroll in school just to take the same classes...I'm also guessing you can't get financial aid since you're not going towards a degree. Would i have to take the core classes over (bio, chem, orgo,etc)? Upper level (microbio, genetics, biochem, etc), or both.
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1) Yes, you can always retake any class you've already taken.
2) Probably can't get financial aid - certainly not if you're taking them as a non-degree student. You could in theory take these classes as part of a "special masters program" (search "SMP" on sdn), and potentially get some kind of aid, but even then most likely not.
3) In terms what what classes to take, it doesn't really matter. As long as they are undergrad-level, it will go towards fixing your GPA. However, if you retake classes, its best to start with prereq classes that you got a low grade in. Then if you apply DO, you can take advantage of grade replacement.
Good luck!
^ I'm going to e-mail someone from the prehealth department about that. I never heard of someone graduating actually going back and taking classes over again. In my case since i did bad in like all my classes, except the final semester, I would need to take almost everything over.
semester 1:
bio 1,chem1,orgo 1, microbio? genetics?
semester 2:
bio 2, chem 2, orgo 2, biochem, another sci class?
something like that? how many a semester should i take? should I retake more classes than 2 semester's worth?
-also i haven't done much research on it, but I heard of linkage schools where if u get accepted and do well, you will automatically qualify into their medical school. I think NYU had one. Should i try applying there as well?
semester 1:
bio 1,chem1,orgo 1, microbio? genetics?
semester 2:
bio 2, chem 2, orgo 2, biochem, another sci class?
something like that? how many a semester should i take? should I retake more classes than 2 semester's worth?
-also i haven't done much research on it, but I heard of linkage schools where if u get accepted and do well, you will automatically qualify into their medical school. I think NYU had one. Should i try applying there as well?
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You sure can retake as many classes as you need (I would say a sGPA > 3.0 is fine assuming a sustained upward grade trend). My school, for example, would not let students retake a class where they received a 2.0 or better, so you might need to retake them at another institution (which is a perfectly acceptable method). I suggest spending 2 years retaking the classes instead of two semesters. Your proposed schedule is deceptively rigorous and will not be an easy ace. You need to make 4.0s your priority because a mediocre performance in the retakes will make your GPA recovery take much longer (if not impossible).
What you're describing is a 'formal post-baccalaureate' or 'special master's program,' either of which are still quite competitive. Though many schools entice students with guarantees, very few actually do guaranteed acceptances without jumping through some hoops (and tons of fine print). In any case, you'll still want your sGPA > 3.0 for these programs.
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i agree with above. you should be expecting 2 years before you may be ready. you can go to any 4 year institution. just say you want to take classes as a guest student. they may be harder to get into if they are popular at the college, but it is possible.
you really don't have any chance at MD schools and to say you want to try anyway is foolish. start retaking your prereqs and go from there.
you really don't have any chance at MD schools and to say you want to try anyway is foolish. start retaking your prereqs and go from there.
^ Yeah my school probably won't let me retake classes...I've been doing research all day and I don't see any option for people who graduated that wants to retake classes. Do I contact the admission board or the college of science? i e-mailed the admission board at my school. Thank you guys for your input btw.
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The descriptors for students such as yourself would be either 'post-baccalaureate' or 'continuing education'... do they have anything close on their website?
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Exactly right.
How about schools like Barry university where they offer post bach programs for premedical students. This program sounds good http://www.barry.edu/bms/admissions/Default.htm but i never heard of the school...If i were to get into that type of program would that be more beneficial for me than retaking my course at a university or community college?
that program does fit my bill...but sounds shady...
-with some research I found out it's not too bad. as long as i do well in the mcat i think i have a good chance of getting in. The question is if i take it this August and apply for 2 year program. By the time i apply to MD and OD schools, the MCAT will have expired right?
that program does fit my bill...but sounds shady...
-with some research I found out it's not too bad. as long as i do well in the mcat i think i have a good chance of getting in. The question is if i take it this August and apply for 2 year program. By the time i apply to MD and OD schools, the MCAT will have expired right?
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my current thought- forget this year, study hard for the MCAT and apply to post bach program for next cycle..If i get a score around 40's i think it will be more beneficial for me to wait then wing this one. thoughts?
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Sounds fair. If you aren't going to apply to med school until two years from now, no immediate rush on the MCAT prep. Just focus on your classwork for the time being.
As far as Barry's program, I've never heard of it myself so I won't voice an opinion on the matter. However, if you are considering going the formal post-bac route I encourage you to check out post-bac sub-forum: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71
There are reviews, school specific threads, and tons of feedback for most programs (including Barry: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=795585).
thanks a lot for your feedback. I'm just worried even if i do get in and do well, that med schools will still see my undergrad GPA and dismiss me. I'm going to have to pick up a job or two, smp and post bach programs are super expensive!
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This uncertainty is precisely why SMPs are able to charge the amount of money that they do. They tease applicants with guaranteed acceptances or interviews if certain conditions are met, and in return ask for tens of thousands of dollars.
Your concern is legitimate and I make no guarantees that you will be accepted to a med school even after two more years of straight 4.0s. I do think, however, that if you are planning to pursue an SMP with guaranteed linkage, you should first raise your GPA on your own (otherwise you will likely not be accepted).
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are you saying you are going to start studying for the mcat and hopefully score around a the 40s? i guess this sentence doesn't make much sense to me.
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Hannsgz,
You are wasting your time. You have absolutely no chance at an MD school in the foreseeable future, regardless of your MCAT score. You will be screened out based upon your terrible science GPA, if not your cumulative GPA.
You need to quit thinking about masters degrees and taking the MCAT. Taking the MCAT now would serve absolutely no purpose. Go get into some random university and start retaking all of the science courses you bombed. Then take the MCAT. Then apply to DO schools, which ARE medical schools.
Put MD schools out of your mind. It is not going to happen.
You are wasting your time. You have absolutely no chance at an MD school in the foreseeable future, regardless of your MCAT score. You will be screened out based upon your terrible science GPA, if not your cumulative GPA.
You need to quit thinking about masters degrees and taking the MCAT. Taking the MCAT now would serve absolutely no purpose. Go get into some random university and start retaking all of the science courses you bombed. Then take the MCAT. Then apply to DO schools, which ARE medical schools.
Put MD schools out of your mind. It is not going to happen.
-FrkyBgStok- I said that because I'm going to study my ass off.
I would actually like to go to some school and retake the classes, but due to financial restraint, I don't think I can take more than maximum 2 a semester which would take me like 4~6 years to retake all my courses. I wish I would have done it right the first time around, but no point in regretting now. I just want to work towards getting into a med school. Maybe with my current GPA, getting into a smp or post bach program and expecting to get into a med school was wishful thinking.
I would actually like to go to some school and retake the classes, but due to financial restraint, I don't think I can take more than maximum 2 a semester which would take me like 4~6 years to retake all my courses. I wish I would have done it right the first time around, but no point in regretting now. I just want to work towards getting into a med school. Maybe with my current GPA, getting into a smp or post bach program and expecting to get into a med school was wishful thinking.
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If it were me, and my situation was somewhat similar (undergrad cum 3.0), I would do a self directed post-bac program at a different institution. Enroll as a degree seeking student. IE, I have a BA in Poli-Sci, but I want one in biology. Take Bio 1/2, Phys 1/2, Gen Chem 1/2 and O-Chem 1/2 the first year, then Biochem 1/2, and ALL UPPER LEVEL science courses the second year. Cram your labs into the summer. Take the MCAT January of the second year of your post-bac. Since you are enrolled as a degree seeking student, even if its a second degree, you will qualify for federal aid (loans but not grants). DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU a) don't think you have an excellent chance at a 4.0 the whole way through b) have ANY doubt that you want to go to medical school. If you do it this way, and get the grades and crush the MCAT (35 or higher) then you MAY have a chance at MD. If you get 30-35 I would guess that you have a good shot at DO. Less than a 3.75 (post-bac) and 30, and you are going to have a hard time finding a program. Best of luck, and it can be done!
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Shakespeare, while your plan is quite ambitious, Hannsgz already said that he has financial constraints limiting the number of credits he can take per semester.
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Right. But Hannsgz seemed unaware that it was possible to enroll as a degree seeking student and therefore be eligible for financial aid, which would hopefully/possibly alleviate those constraints.
I'm out of state right now, and due to financial situation i can't go back. Even if i change my major to a degree seeking, the money would be on the high end. and can you change major in post bac? are you allowed to do post bach, let's say chemistry major or microbio major? I got to look into that.
-also, should i retake classes i got B or B+? no right?
edit-I need to take all my science classes except chemistry in which i got B's. I got an A in physics 1. If i were to take bio 1 &2, orgo 1 &2, physics 2(should i retake this)? If i were to take upper courses, how many and which ones should i take? microbio, biochem, genetics(?)...etc?
-also, should i retake classes i got B or B+? no right?
edit-I need to take all my science classes except chemistry in which i got B's. I got an A in physics 1. If i were to take bio 1 &2, orgo 1 &2, physics 2(should i retake this)? If i were to take upper courses, how many and which ones should i take? microbio, biochem, genetics(?)...etc?
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Start by retaking stuff you did really poorly in and then see how it goes. This is going to take more than a semester, so you'll have some time to sort it out.
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As a general rule, I'd only retake a class for which you received a C or less. Labs are usually low-risk (typically only 1 or 2 credits) so I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about them. If you've got holes in your schedule, by all means throw in a lab, but they shouldn't be your priority.
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Most universities and community colleges do not have a official post-baccalaureate program for medical school. Most have two tracks: Degree seeking and continuing education. Continuing education means that you already have a degree and aren't intending on getting another one. It makes you ineligible for most financial aid and also, at least at my state school, puts you at the back of the registration line for classes. Even the freshman register ahead of continuing ed students. This means that it will be hard to get into the classes you want. So when you apply to the school, or enroll, you enroll as "degree seeking." This is not a major, though it may mean that you have to pick one. When (if) you feel compelled to explain why you are getting a second bachelors degree (which people will ask you about) just tell them whatever you like. You should be able to pick whatever major and degree that you want. Then you take the classes you need or want and don't have to finish the degree.
aSagacious is right. If you can't take the load I suggested and bust this out quick and dirty, you'll have time to sort it out as you go along. Retake classes that you got C's or worse in, fit labs in where you can. Make sure you get A's, then use whatever free time you have left to improve your overall application.
As far as how many and what upper level science classes to take, you have to take enough credit hours to get your GPA high enough that you feel like you have a good shot at getting admitted. As for what they are, you should take whatever upper level science courses that you like and are pretty sure you can get A's in, and biochemistry.
Good luck!
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I just re-read my post and realized I might not be clear. I'm saying enroll as a regular undergraduate in school. I looked extensively at my options (I was in a similar boat as you and started 'fixing' things two years ago.) Continuing ed was what I looked at first, and, from what I can tell, schools generally screw continuing ed students. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to enroll as a regular undergrad and just go part time. My school actually charges continuing ed students significantly more per credit hour than regular undergrads. Also, I know what I'm suggesting is ambitious and a lot of hard work, but you've got a significant hole to dig yourself out of. It's also gonna take good EC's and high MCAT to get adcoms to consider you. I really wish you the best.
If it makes you feel any better, I've been told I've got decent chances the upcoming app cycle by a lot of people. My story (part of it, anyway) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=810608
If it makes you feel any better, I've been told I've got decent chances the upcoming app cycle by a lot of people. My story (part of it, anyway) http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=810608
I don't think my state school offers post bacc who wants to change majors and retake a lot of the classes that overlaps. When you're talking about "regular" undergrad student, wouldn't you need to be straight out of highschool or something? http://www.gsu.edu/admissions/postbaccalaureate.html. I don't see any option there for that at least not there. I'm going to call the school tomorrow to see if that's an possibility.
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From the link:
"Postbaccalaureate Students
If you have completed a bachelor's degree at a regionally-accredited college or university and wish to enroll in undergraduate-level courses at Georgia State University as a non-degree seeking student, you are considered a postbaccalaureate applicant." [Bold Mine]
This seems to me that you could enroll as a 'degree seeking student'. You don't have to be right out of high-school. I enrolled as degree seeking, listed my major as biology (despite the fact that I have a BA in poli sci) and am considered a 'regular' undergraduate by my school, avoiding the headaches of being a post-bac or continuing ed. student. I've got a few older friends that have done the same thing at other schools. An example is a friend who also wants to go to medical school that had a BA from his state school and enrolled at MUSC as a 'regular' undgrad to get a BS in biology... he's just knocking out the med-school pre-requisites over two years and then is going to apply to medical school. The degree-seeking tag just means that you are enrolled with the intention of getting a second bachelors degree. You transfer in your credits from your previous degree, which should give you at least junior standing, which helps as far as being able to get the classes you need. The fact that you took the classes before and are technically retaking them shouldn't matter (though might be school specific), because most of them will be in your major, most schools require that you take major-related courses at their institution. IE, I actually took organic chemistry when I got my BA, but had to retake at my new school because it was required for my bio-major. This route also allows you to take upper-level classes, because most bio majors are required to take a certain number of upper division courses.
After looking at the GSU website, I would apply as a transfer student or 'regular' undergraduate seeking a second bachelors. Based on your previous posts, it doesn't seem like you've been out of school long enough to qualify as a non-traditional student.
On a side note, one of the things I was told was that I needed to demonstrate to the adcoms that I was 'a different person' than the guy that got the lousy undergrad GPA. That takes time. I think if you work, volunteer, and take a few classes at a time (esp. since it seems you will be financing this on your own and times are tough), the time it takes to do this should actually work in your favor, as you can say.... x years ago I did this, but since then my grades, shadowing etc. show this....
A phone call to the school is definitely in your best interest. If you enroll as an undergrad, you wouldn't be changing your major, you'd be pursuing a second degree. But I'm starting to ramble. Hope this helps.
"Postbaccalaureate Students
If you have completed a bachelor's degree at a regionally-accredited college or university and wish to enroll in undergraduate-level courses at Georgia State University as a non-degree seeking student, you are considered a postbaccalaureate applicant." [Bold Mine]
This seems to me that you could enroll as a 'degree seeking student'. You don't have to be right out of high-school. I enrolled as degree seeking, listed my major as biology (despite the fact that I have a BA in poli sci) and am considered a 'regular' undergraduate by my school, avoiding the headaches of being a post-bac or continuing ed. student. I've got a few older friends that have done the same thing at other schools. An example is a friend who also wants to go to medical school that had a BA from his state school and enrolled at MUSC as a 'regular' undgrad to get a BS in biology... he's just knocking out the med-school pre-requisites over two years and then is going to apply to medical school. The degree-seeking tag just means that you are enrolled with the intention of getting a second bachelors degree. You transfer in your credits from your previous degree, which should give you at least junior standing, which helps as far as being able to get the classes you need. The fact that you took the classes before and are technically retaking them shouldn't matter (though might be school specific), because most of them will be in your major, most schools require that you take major-related courses at their institution. IE, I actually took organic chemistry when I got my BA, but had to retake at my new school because it was required for my bio-major. This route also allows you to take upper-level classes, because most bio majors are required to take a certain number of upper division courses.
After looking at the GSU website, I would apply as a transfer student or 'regular' undergraduate seeking a second bachelors. Based on your previous posts, it doesn't seem like you've been out of school long enough to qualify as a non-traditional student.
On a side note, one of the things I was told was that I needed to demonstrate to the adcoms that I was 'a different person' than the guy that got the lousy undergrad GPA. That takes time. I think if you work, volunteer, and take a few classes at a time (esp. since it seems you will be financing this on your own and times are tough), the time it takes to do this should actually work in your favor, as you can say.... x years ago I did this, but since then my grades, shadowing etc. show this....
A phone call to the school is definitely in your best interest. If you enroll as an undergrad, you wouldn't be changing your major, you'd be pursuing a second degree. But I'm starting to ramble. Hope this helps.
I really do not think that you can expect to have a MCAT score of 40 or more if you do not know the material. Which it sounds like you don't since you said you failed all your science courses (2.0 gpa?) I would skip the MCAT for now and retake all those classes. If you are really serious about medicine you are going to have to challenge yourself, find a way to manage the costs as many before you have done, and do as well as you can.
^i got c's b/c i didn't go to class due to personal reasons. but anyways,
I'm thinking of doing as transfer student so i can get financial aid and get to pick classes first. getting bad professors are the worst. I will be working towards a a degree, but will i get financial aid for retaking classes i passed? If i take the prereq and upper sci that i need...can I discontinue my courses and leave that degree unfulfilled? will there be a penalty for not getting a degree if i received financial aid?
I'm thinking of doing as transfer student so i can get financial aid and get to pick classes first. getting bad professors are the worst. I will be working towards a a degree, but will i get financial aid for retaking classes i passed? If i take the prereq and upper sci that i need...can I discontinue my courses and leave that degree unfulfilled? will there be a penalty for not getting a degree if i received financial aid?
