Clerkship process starts at 12:01 tomorrow

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Psh. I'm starting at midnight EST because that's when the 15th starts.
 
well what about greenwich mean time?

So do we send them at 12:01 where the program is? Because 1201 my time is 1001 western time zone?
 
air bud said:
well what about greenwich mean time?

So do we send them at 12:01 where the program is? Because 1201 my time is 1001 western time zone?
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Some of my classmates were discussing this yesterday. One said that he was going to send his applications when it is midnight in the program's time zone. So for programs on the east coast that would be 11pm in cornville. And West Coast programs it would be 2am in cornville. I think this is a good idea. I wouldn't want to annoy any of the clerkship directors...

However, our clerkship director told us that the application process opens at 12am eastern time (11pm in cornville). So I am going with this...
 
Last year I sent all of mine in at 12:01 Eastern time, so like 9:00 PM AZ time. I think we all did. I would just do it at 12:01 eastern time and not worry about what time it is at the program. They probably won't look at it until the next day (or week).
 
you request months, top 3.
 
Ankle Breaker said:
That still leaves you susceptible to booking two different programs for the same month. How do you work that out? Just simply contact the program and ask them to move you or are you stuck and have to choose?
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I will let you know how everything unfolds over the next few days/weeks. But only because you and me are bro's anklebreaker. I am sure other people can chime in who have already gone through it. I am also sure that it is not as stressful and pod students like to make so many things.
 
Ankle Breaker said:
That still leaves you susceptible to booking two different programs for the same month. How do you work that out? Just simply contact the program and ask them to move you or are you stuck and have to choose?
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air bud said:
I will let you know how everything unfolds over the next few days/weeks. But only because you and me are bro's anklebreaker. I am sure other people can chime in who have already gone through it. I am also sure that it is not as stressful and pod students like to make so many things.
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You can contact the program and see if they can fit you in another month. If they can't then you are forced to chooise between the two. It can be stressful at times when you are trying to decide whether to wait for a program that you really want to offer you a month or whether you take an offer from a program that you aren't as excited about but that answered first. I applied to a few extra programs just in case, and it actually worked out pretty well, I did have to tell a couple of programs "thanks, but no thanks" but I filled all of my months with programs that I wanted. Good luck with it all to those who just applied!
 
crazy some people have already heard back, one program got back to people on saturday nght. some email, some phone calls
 
air bud said:
crazy some people have already heard back, one program got back to people on saturday nght. some email, some phone calls
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Do you mind sharing which programs have already gotten back to some of your classmates?
 
so far I have heard back from 4 programs. 3 emails and only 1 phone call. 1 program basically said I need to know right now, 1 gave me a day and half, and the other 2 didn't specify. Haven't heard from backups yet.

Anybody else have anything to add? I would love to know where Western people are applying.
 
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I'm confirmed at one spot for now...maybe I'd have more replies if I sent my apps in at 12:01 am friday night instead of waiting until Sunday afternoon.😉
 
Adam Smasher said:
I'm confirmed at one spot for now...maybe I'd have more replies if I sent my apps in at 12:01 am friday night instead of waiting until Sunday afternoon.😉
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what was your rationale for NOT sending it in right away? Did other people at Scholl do this, did faculty not beat it into your heads to send it out immediately?
 
air bud said:
what was your rationale for NOT sending it in right away? Did other people at Scholl do this, did faculty not beat it into your heads to send it out immediately?
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Yes other people at Scholl did this as well. 😕 I don't think people realized that programs were going to start accepting students as early Saturday. Maybe because we already applied for our 3rd year programs (back in August) and they did not get back to us for weeks.

Most of my classmates applied on Thursday evening/early Friday morning. But there are still some people that have not applied as of last night.

As for myself, I have been accepted to one program and have heard back from another. 🙂
 
how could you apply for 2012 clerkships on thurs/fri if you could not download the application until friday afternoon at 4?

I heard back from 2 more programs, 6 out of my total 9, including a backup.

Where are all the other 3rd years on SDN? anyone care to share where they are going?

Edit: later in the day I have now heard from 6 of 7 desired programs and 1 of 3 backups. I have heard people say they got 2 hours to respond. Last program that called me said the end of the week. Everyone seems very understanding of possible scheduling conflicts and people asking to put it off a day or to. I have been offered every month I have asked for and I am applying to programs some would deem competitive. Just stating that for context
 
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I'm confirmed for one spot (they gave me my first choice of month). Two others have emailed me stating that they got my app and I will hear by Monday. Still waiting to hear from my other two; one is out of my league so I don't expect to hear for a while, the other was only a paper app which still isn't delivered.
 
Adam Smasher said:
My rationale is that I am applying for a podiatric clerkship, not buying concert tickets that are at risk for selling out. Clerkship directors are not simply going to accept the first X applicants in their inbox.

By making the application available on a Friday afternoon, the AACPM has sent the implicit message that we have the entire weekend to take our time and put together a well-crafted application packet rather than throw something together haphazardly in a matter of hours.

My goal was to have everything sent out by Monday morning. So far, I've been accepted to 3 clerkships that were high on my list of priorities. I think my strategy is working.

By the way, no, I am not going to say which clerkships I will be rotating through.
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Glad you are getting the programs you wanted.
I completely disagree with your analogy and your thought process though, and doubt you will find others on here who will agree. But hey, I might have been wrong once before...
 
I honestly didn't expect programs to start getting back to students this fast. I figured it would be a week or two. I still sent all applications at 12:01 though, and I'm glad that I did.
 
I have now heard from all 7 desired clerkships. I was offered my first choice of months so I didnt have to do any juggling of months. 4 emailed me, 3 called. 1 told me I had 2 days by email. Since I instantly accepted all of the phone calls (since I knew the area codes) I didn't receive any ultimatums.
Will other people please comment on the their process, I think it can be very helpful for 2nd years.
 
Not necessarily. Most people that I know have gotten most of their desired programs already. Part of this is due to being realistic about where to apply, and part is other factors.
As far as my situation goes, I set a goal when I started school: I was going to do everything I could to put myself in a situation where I would be able to apply to any and every program that I desired. It meant sacrificing some things, but I have achieved my goal. Everything I have done for the last 2 years has culminated in today being able to extern at any program I desired. It was worth it, and all it took was hard work and dedication, nothing that each and every student couldn't achieve. I didn't have the highest GPA or the highest MCAT when I entered, but I had a focus, desire and surrounded myself with great people. And now I am only part way up the mountain. Now I need to spend a lot of time doing self-learning and finishing 3rd year so that I can do well 4th year and get one of these programs.
 
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Adam Smasher said:
By making the application available on a Friday afternoon, the AACPM has sent the implicit message that we have the entire weekend to take our time and put together a well-crafted application packet rather than throw something together haphazardly in a matter of hours.
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Isn't the AACPM application more or less a cover sheet? If so, shouldn't you have "a well-crafted application packet" long before that document is published?? I don't get why you have to wait until after the app is posted by the AACPM to collect/organize/put together all of the information that the program's you are interested in require.
 
yes, it is a cover sheet basically. I had my stuff done weeks ago. And there was last years copy available to know what to expect. So unless there was a life and death situation last week, then was likely no reason to wait until Monday. I don't see how it could be worth the risk even if things hopefully do work out in the end.
And I don't know how you imply that whole thought process. The application cycle always begins on October 15th. This year, it just so happened that it fell on a Saturday. If your school has not beaten it into your head to get things out at 12:01, then shame on them.
 
air bud said:
Not necessarily. Most people that I know have gotten most of their desired programs already. Part of this is due to being realistic about where to apply, and part is other factors.
As far as my situation goes, I set a goal when I started school: I was going to do everything I could to put myself in a situation where I would be able to apply to any and every program that I desired. It meant sacrificing some things, but I have achieved my goal. Everything I have done for the last 2 years has culminated in today being able to extern at any program I desired. It was worth it, and all it took was hard work and dedication, nothing that each and every student couldn't achieve. I didn't have the highest GPA or the highest MCAT when I entered, but I had a focus, desire and surrounded myself with great people. And now I am only part way up the mountain. Now I need to spend a lot of time doing self-learning and finishing 3rd year so that I can do well 4th year and get one of these programs.
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I know that this is off the main topic, but I just had to say how inspired I am after reading this. Congratulations on your success so far!
 
OCPM had an exam on Saturday morning for some reason and mostly everyone still sent their applications out at 12:01 or shortly after. Many people heard back on saturday, sunday and monday. Some people have their schedule finalized already. We were all told to get them out ASAP and I think that was good advice. Though of course there are many people who are still waiting on a several programs.
 
I was under the impression that everyone should send them out at 12:01am. Nothing is going to change on your application between 12:01am and the next day or two so you might as get it in early.
 
All 7 are in the books, plus my 2 backups. Got desired choice of months for all as well. Heard from my last one this morning.
 
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why this process is a huge mess. People like Air Bud apply to 9, 10, 50 programs, and get them all. Then his classmates will be rejected from those programs. Then he will cancel those extra programs, and his classmates will have already found different programs.

This system is entirely broken. The only way to ensure that students aren't applying to a hundred programs is by making one centralized online trackable application.

At NY, if we applied to more than 5 (we have five externships), we would be punished by removing one externship month. This stops students from overapplying and ruining other's chances. To those students that applied to more programs than they had months, shame on you for being hurtful to your peers.
 
Sig Savant said:
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why this process is a huge mess. People like Air Bud apply to 9, 10, 50 programs, and get them all. Then his classmates will be rejected from those programs. Then he will cancel those extra programs, and his classmates will have already found different programs.

This system is entirely broken. The only way to ensure that students aren't applying to a hundred programs is by making one centralized online trackable application.

At NY, if we applied to more than 5 (we have five externships), we would be punished by removing one externship month. This stops students from overapplying and ruining other's chances. To those students that applied to more programs than they had months, shame on you for being hurtful to your peers.
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And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why NYCPM = FAIL

Penalized for applying to extra externships? LOL
 
Again, people like you are the exact reason that there is a strain on the system. You are only hurting your classmates and messing up the system.
 
I have heard that they are working towards implementing a centralized application system. It's pretty much a no brainer that this will happen eventually. For now... the students at my school were told to apply to around 7 or 8 programs to fill our 6 open months. You should have a pretty good idea of who is going to accept you, especially because programs have a lot of room to take clerks. While airbud may not have needed to apply to 9 programs I don't think it is anywhere near excessive. Cautious yes, excessive no. Everyone has different factors controlling how they apply. If you have a 4.0 you should be fine applying to 5 programs to fill 5 months. If you have a 3.6 and are applying to all "high power" programs you would be an idiot if you didn't apply to at least 7. It depends on whether you are "reaching" or "settling." I think you're a little off on this one Sig Savant, though I do agree that we shouldn't be applying to "too many" programs and there should be a standardized application process.
 
Is it true if you say, thanks but no thanks, to a program that accepted you for an externship you ruined your chances to apply/interview for residency?
 
Sig Savant said:
Again, people like you are the exact reason that there is a strain on the system. You are only hurting your classmates and messing up the system.
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Funny how you almost never see people from AZ, DMU, or Scholl complaining about such things.

In summary: system is fine, NYCPM has failed
 
FiveOVicryl said:
Funny how you almost never see people from AZ, DMU, or Scholl complaining about such things.

In summary: system is fine, NYCPM has failed
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Saying that you think the system is fine = fail... There is room for improvement. I haven't really seen OCPM complain about the process either, but maybe I haven't looked too hard.
 
Marry2Pod said:
Is it true if you say, thanks but no thanks, to a program that accepted you for an externship you ruined your chances to apply/interview for residency?
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I think programs know how the process works and they don't really hold it against you for turning them down. And if you get your top 6 spots hopefully you won't need to interview at your # 7, 8, 9, etc. Personally, I plan on visiting any program I turn down for at least a day if not a week, along with any other program I plan on interviewing with.
 
AZ25 said:
Saying that you think the system is fine = fail... There is room for improvement. I haven't really seen OCPM complain about the process either, but maybe I haven't looked too hard.
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There is ALWAYS room for improvement. The system is "fine" in the sense that it does not need the overhaul that Sig suggested. To be more specific, the rule of "you can only apply the X number of programs if you have X number of slots available" is by far one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on these forums.


Edit: Temple, Barry, and Cali have not express such complaints as well
 
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FiveOVicryl said:
There is ALWAYS room for improvement. The system is "fine" in the sense that it does not need the overhaul that Sig suggested. To be more specific, the rule of "you can only apply the X number of programs if you have X number of slots available" is by far one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on these forums.
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I agree. Pretty much crazy talk. Had Sig suggested that there be a limit of 15 or 20 I might have to agree. I don't know of a single student from my school that applied to more than even ten programs.
 
This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have heard. Lets break it down for the kids, shall we?

1. I have 7 months to fill. I am using my vacation month to do an extra clerkship. Thus, I need to apply to AT LEAST 7 programs.

B. Even I, the mighty airbud, am not arrogant enough nor dumb enough to not think I don't need 1 or 2 backups in case I were not able to get a program. Lets just say for this reason I only need 1 backup.

C. Not everybody applies to mainly NY/Philly/New England programs and has an hour or 2 drive between programs. Case in point. I am starting at a program west of DMU, then coming back east, then finishing west, in a very systematic driving pattern for all things considered. Had I not been able to get my last program out west for the very last month, I would not have gone to it because it would have ruined the order of everything else. Boom, second backup needed.

4. To further elaborate on point C, not everyone gets their desired months. I am fortunate enough to have done so. People who subscribe to the AdamSmasher Theory of Applying may have waited a day too long and for a multitude of reasons needed a specific month. When that month was not longer available, they were SOL and it was time to call their backup.

E. Last time I checked Sig, nobody was else was responsible for me but me. Nobody else was going to set up clerkships for me but me. What do you want me to do, call program X that I turned down when things went my way and say "Hey Dr. John Smith Clerkship Director, can I put in a good word for SigSavant? He hasnt helped pay my bills, hasnt gotten any grades for me on a test, but I want to be fair and give him a chance?"

F. Again, this is a ridiculous argument you make. Should they have a centralized application service? Yes. Do I like to ask questions that I have an answer for? Yes. Am I responsible for your success in gaining clerkhips? No.
 
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Listen, if SOME of my class mates applied to some of the programs I applied to, then shame on them and shame on faculty for suggesting that they do. Sure, they are free to do what they want. But so is the clerkship director. A person at ranked in the bottom 2 or 3 should NOT be applying to INOVA or West Penn or Awesome Program X. This is why DMU faculty meets at least 2 times individually and 2 more times as a class to discuss strategies and goals. Kids, actions have consequences. Not everybody has a chance at every program. You are a piece of paper to them. The binder only holds so many pieces of paper, and some are thicker than others. The program director can figure out I am a jerk after I spend a month there, but i look good on paper. To paraphrase Dennis Green's infamous monday night meltdown "You are who they think you are!!!" You don't pick clerkships based on feelings and puppies and unicorns. You pick them based on reality. It takes work to learn about clerkships. Just like it took work to be able to be in the position you are in (or lack thereof).

Also, it should be known that not all applicants are even eligible to apply to all programs. Some say top 50%, some say top 33 or 25%. Some say GPA above 2.5, 3.0 or 3.3. So Sig, explain to me how that is my fault? In fact, I am DOING A FAVOR for students ranked at the bottom. By applying to programs that have certain GPA or class rank requirements, I am taking myself out of the running for programs that all students are eligible for.

Finally, lets think about something else for a second. Why do programs have certain requirements in the first place?
 
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Sig Savant said:
At NY, if we applied to more than 5 (we have five externships), we would be punished by removing one externship month. This stops students from overapplying and ruining other's chances. To those students that applied to more programs than they had months, shame on you for being hurtful to your peers.
Click to expand...

To all you pre-pods out there, read this. Then read this again. Then remember this.
 
Sig Savant said:
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why this process is a huge mess. People like Air Bud apply to 9, 10, 50 programs, and get them all. Then his classmates will be rejected from those programs. Then he will cancel those extra programs, and his classmates will have already found different programs.
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Although I'm a pre-pod, I don't think this is a valid argument. Your premise is based on a fallacy. Your argument assumes there is a virtually unlimited amount of programs. This is clearly not the case. If AirBud rejects programs that have accepted him, you are suggesting that no-one fills those spots, and that other students have been accepted to all other programs which apparently exist. Based solely on your level of discontent, I would presume that you are under the impression that AirBud's back-up programs are still desirable programs. If that is the case, do you really think a desirable program would go unfilled??

As an auxiliary argument, [People like] AirBud won't apply to 9 programs without a certain goal in mind. He wouldn't pick the same month for his top two programs. What that means is that any "extra" programs he applies to will probably not be a top-tier clerkship, in which case no one will get pissed off he got into them because, according to you, they have already found other programs. This argument is based on the fact that airbud (and people like him), made logical decisions about applying to programs - which isn't necessarily always true. A possible objection to this view might note that preferences in "top tier" programs may vary from person to person. However, that is irrelevant because most of this variation would come from people not putting in the required effort in their pre-clerkship education - which one might assume is your position...
 
Sorry, wasn't calling you out. And I have already stated I am glad that you were able to get everything you wanted. I am sure you have worked hard to be able to do so. And now you reap the rewards.

EDIT: Thank you for helping me build my vocab today as well. I had to look up "temerity," it means "excessive confidence or boldness, audacity."
 
air bud said:
Sorry, wasn't calling you out. And I have already stated I am glad that you were able to get everything you wanted. I am sure you have worked hard to be able to do so. And now you reap the rewards.
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No problemo 👍
 
MaxillofacialMN said:
Although I'm a pre-pod, I don't think this is a valid argument. Your premise is based on a fallacy. Your argument assumes there is a virtually unlimited amount of programs. This is clearly not the case. If AirBud rejects programs that have accepted him, you are suggesting that no-one fills those spots, and that other students have been accepted to all other programs which apparently exist.
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Allow me to explain further, because if you are not actively involved in the process right now, it is difficult to understand.

When air bud applied to his back up, and lets just talk about one program, lets say Community Hospital. Community takes 3 externs for November. They dig through all applications and fill November with air bud, tom, and harry. Dick, on the other hand, is left out of that program, which was his first choice; he is rejected from the program. Dick goes on to apply to another program, one of his back ups.

A few days later, air bud declines Community's offer. Community has already rejected Dick; thus, Dick loses his spot solely because air bud over applied.

While both Community and Dick will both look for other spots, Community probably won't call Dick back and offer him a spot after rejecting him. Also, Dick would probably be looking at other programs and no longer want to go to community.

Air bud essentially ruined his classmate's opportunity to go to his first choice program.

Finally, I don't care what anyone thinks of my argument, as long as you agree that we in podiatry are in a close knit community. I refuse to do anything that will negatively affect the rest of us. It doesn't need to be cut throat, there are enough spots for everyone. I came into medicine to help people; all people; even my classmates. They must not emphasize compassion at the other schools.

Prepods, remember that. At least NYCPM students look out for each other.
 
Sig Savant said:
Allow me to explain further, because if you are not actively involved in the process right now, it is difficult to understand.

When air bud applied to his back up, and lets just talk about one program, lets say Community Hospital. Community takes 3 externs for November. They dig through all applications and fill November with air bud, tom, and harry. Dick, on the other hand, is left out of that program, which was his first choice; he is rejected from the program. Dick goes on to apply to another program, one of his back ups.

A few days later, air bud declines Community's offer. Community has already rejected Dick; thus, Dick loses his spot solely because air bud over applied.

While both Community and Dick will both look for other spots, Community probably won't call Dick back and offer him a spot after rejecting him. Also, Dick would probably be looking at other programs and no longer want to go to community.

Air bud essentially ruined his classmate's opportunity to go to his first choice program.

Finally, I don't care what anyone thinks of my argument, as long as you agree that we in podiatry are in a close knit community. I refuse to do anything that will negatively affect the rest of us. It doesn't need to be cut throat, there are enough spots for everyone. I came into medicine to help people; all people; even my classmates. They must not emphasize compassion at the other schools.

Prepods, remember that. At least NYCPM students look out for each other.
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Again, you are flawed in your thinking.

1st, students put down multiple months for a reason.
2nd, there is a reason programs tell you they need an answer ASAP usually. Community is not going to reject Dick until they have confirmed the other 3. I would say a very very small minority of students reneg on a confirmed clerkship. So community will call back Dick and say hey, we can't give you November, but we can give you October which was your 2nd choice. Maybe that means you have to call another program and ask to switch, but the system works. I had 4 different scenarios well planned and a few others that I could have figured out last minute. I was prepared, fortunately, I got my ideal plan. This comes back to being a smart, well informed student. By having backups and understanding the process, you are able to plan for different scenarios. Also, lets not let people forget that people get vacation months. Ok, I assume all schools give students a vacation month. So guess what, use your vacation month to visit a program you want that you may have had to turn down because Community offered you the month you were going there.
Sig, quit drinking the koolaid that NYCPM is giving you. Also, does your NY commune share paying each others loans back?

EDIT: 3rd, let it be known that there are clerkship spots and residencies that still go unfilled each year.

And all you prepod's remember, Tom Dick and Very Nervous Harry. Order and contents of compartments in the medial ankle. That one is free too. Remember prepods, DMU students care about ALL students, not just the ones that go to DMU
 
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ohyeah2.gif
 
Sig Savant said:
Community takes 3 externs for November. They dig through all applications and fill November with air bud, tom, and harry. Dick, on the other hand, is left out of that program, which was his first choice; he is rejected from the program. Dick goes on to apply to another program, one of his back ups.
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I feel the need to fight stupidity in this profession way too often...

This scenario is flawed. When a program calls/emails you, you generally have a day or two to respond. During that period (while air bud is allowed to accept or decline said offer), Community will NOT call Dick and tell him that he has been rejected from the program. Most likely they will wait for Tom, Harry and air bud to respond before they call the next folks on their list. If they call Dick at all it will be to offer him one of his backup months. Then Dick has time to decide if he wants the program. If, in the mean time, air bud rejects that backup program, Dick can certainly take his top choice of November assuming the program doesn't want to accommodate a more desirable candidate. If air bud takes that backup program? Well, air bud was obviously a better candidate and deserving of that spot. Since air bud won't get one of his "first choice" programs (since he accepted a back up in fear of not landing a program) Dick could take a spot from air bud! Yes, Dick could get a call from INOVA after air bud has to tell them "thanks, but no thanks. I already filled that month with the VA in Lebanon, PA." NOOOOOOO! Dick gets to go to a sweet program because air bud didn't have the stones to hold out for his favorite program to call him?! But that's not fair! How dare you have to live with the decisions you make?!

NYCPM is doing their students a great disservice. I guess they just pray that most of their students decide to apply to the NY programs that nobody really wants (and for good reason). There's plenty of them to go around, that's for sure.
 
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