Regarding addmission as an international student

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PsychMed91

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I'm an American citizen currently living in Israel.
I'm a Freshmen majoring Biology. My coursework include all the requirements of the BCPM section. I also take many AP courses (Including Biochemistry, Genetics, and Physiology) to help me in my admissions.

It seems that even though I'm an American citizen, I'm still considered an international student, and therefore I am required to do a year in an American college before admission to many private universities.

I had a few questions regarding the requirements and chances of acceptance:
1. I saw that many universities require English Literature classes. Unfortunately my university only offers classes in scientific writing in English and some translation classes. Would it be enough to take a scientific writing class to fill that requirement?
2. How important are AP classes when admitting to a medical school?
3. I will volunteer in a psychiatric hospital next year to suffice my EC. Will it be enough?
4. Is there anything more I can do during my undergrad, especially concerning the fact that I'm an international student, to raise my chances?
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If you are 100% serious and committed about med school in the US, I think it would be wise to move back to the US to do your undergrad. Most med schools will only accept prereqs and a bachelor's degree from US or Canadian schools.

There are a few med schools that will let you apply with only a years worth of work in the US but I feel like you're limiting yourself severely. Others may disagree.
 
I checked the university's websites and international requirements. I didn't see why a foreign degree would appose a problem. The universities I checked are: Duke, UNC Chapel Hill, Stanford and University of Chicago. All wrote that foreign bachelor's degrees are accepted (with a few requiring a year of college before acceptance).
Moving back to the US right now might be problematic.
Why would you say that being accepted with a foreign degree to those kind of universities is such a problem?
 
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PsychMed91 said:
I'm an American citizen currently living in Israel.
I'm a Freshmen majoring Biology. My coursework include all the requirements of the BCPM section. I also take many AP courses (Including Biochemistry, Genetics, and Physiology) to help me in my admissions.

It seems that even though I'm an American citizen, I'm still considered an international student, and therefore I am required to do a year in an American college before admission to many private universities.

I had a few questions regarding the requirements and chances of acceptance:
1. I saw that many universities require English Literature classes. Unfortunately my university only offers classes in scientific writing in English and some translation classes. Would it be enough to take a scientific writing class to fill that requirement?
2. How important are AP classes when admitting to a medical school?
3. I will volunteer in a psychiatric hospital next year to suffice my EC. Will it be enough?
4. Is there anything more I can do during my undergrad, especially concerning the fact that I'm an international student, to raise my chances?
Click to expand...
1) Some schools let you make a substitution. You'd have to call to get permission. Many med schools require a year of English coursework, but a lot will accept AP English, if you have it.

2) Be aware that some schools expect supplementation of AP coursework, meaning you would need higher level coursework in that discipline.

3) You'd ideally have experience with physical illness and injury, as well as mental illness. The average applicant has 1.5 years of clinical experience as well as physician shadowing in addition.

4) Considering that the few med schools that are willing to consider one with only 30 hours of US coursework are highly-selective, research-oriented med schools, I strongly suggest you endeavor to get in 2+ years of research experience. Also, get in some nonmedical community service, display leadership, and teach.

Side Note: AMCAS, the main MD med school application service, does not accept foreign transcripts (unless the international school is affiliated with a US school). Most US med schools require 60-90 credit hours at an accredited US or Canadian college, including all prerequisites. A few require a non-International bachelors degree. As you can't count on having an application that will appeal to the handful of schools listed above, you'd be far better off transferring to a US school to improve your odds. Alternatively, you could consider one of the Israeli med schools.
 
I do want to move to the US after completing my BSc. Moving right now is problematic for me. A few questions regarding your answer:
1. As for the English AP, what can be considered as an English AP course?
2. I have plenty of AP courses that most American students don't get to learn during an average undergraduate degree (Including: Genetics, Biochemistry, Physiology, Hematology, Immunology, Virology, Ecology, Physical Chemistry, Math, Biostatistics, Microbiology, Endocrinology, and Neurology). I hope that this variety of subject would suffice the AP section.
3. I can volunteer in a psychiatric hospital, but won't it be enough? What other institutions are recommended? Where is the best place to receive clinical experience (as I doubt that laboratories let undergraduates participate in experiments of doctorates and professors). What is considered as clinical experience?
4. I will do whatever it takes to get into a good medical school in the US after I finish my BSc. Which is hopefully, in a two years time. I'll complete whatever is necessary is needed.
5. I read the AMCAS manual and found out that there is a section for "Other Schools" in the transcript section. Therefore, I don't understand why would it be a problem.
My degree is from Bar-Ilan university, and is an international degree recognized in the US.

In another note, I will be meeting with an adviser who is knowledgeable with the process of application to American universities. I hope that she can shed some light on the matter.

Thank you for your help, answers to my follow up questions would be much appreciated.
 
PsychMed91 said:
Why would you say that being accepted with a foreign degree to those kind of universities is such a problem?
Click to expand...

PsychMed91 said:
I do want to move to the US after completing my BSc. Moving right now is problematic for me. A few questions regarding your answer:
1. As for the English AP, what can be considered as an English AP course?
2. I have plenty of AP courses that most American students don't get to learn during an average undergraduate degree (Including: Genetics, Biochemistry, Physiology, Hematology, Immunology, Virology, Ecology, Physical Chemistry, Math, Biostatistics, Microbiology, Endocrinology, and Neurology). I hope that this variety of subject would suffice the AP section.
3. I can volunteer in a psychiatric hospital, but won't it be enough? What other institutions are recommended? Where is the best place to receive clinical experience (as I doubt that laboratories let undergraduates participate in experiments of doctorates and professors). What is considered as clinical experience?
4. I will do whatever it takes to get into a good medical school in the US after I finish my BSc. Which is hopefully, in a two years time. I'll complete whatever is necessary is needed.
5. I read the AMCAS manual and found out that there is a section for "Other Schools" in the transcript section. Therefore, I don't understand why would it be a problem.
My degree is from Bar-Ilan university, and is an international degree recognized in the US.

In another note, I will be meeting with an adviser who is knowledgeable with the process of application to American universities. I hope that she can shed some light on the matter.

Thank you for your help, answers to my follow up questions would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...
I think we're talking about completely different types of "AP classes." This is what Cat and I are thinking of http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/public/courses/descriptions/index.html . As you can see, almost none of the classes you listed are there. AP (Advanced Placement) is a program that high schoolers do where you take a test to get college credit. What program and classes are you talking about?

You also aren't quite following about your BSc degree. Yes, you can list that you have the degree on your AMCAS application. However, your application will show a GPA of 0 and 0 credit hours completed because AMCAS won't accept foreign transcripts. So you'll be starting from scratch essentially trying to build a GPA once you get to the US and none of your hard work in your previous classes will count for anything (aside from the notation that you earned a BSc in Israel).

Unfortunately, we don't make the rules or policies of AMCAS or the medical schools themselves. We're just trying to help you figure this out. You are talking about top schools (Stanford, Duke, etc) that very competitive applicants get routinely rejected from. As far as ECs go for these top schools, we're talking about an expectation of two years of research, a year and a half of clinical experience, a year of nonclinical community service, 50 hours of physician shadowing, a teaching/tutoring gig or two, a substantial leadership position, AND on top of that, you'd be lucky if they looked at your app if you didn't start a few new NGOs etc. I may be slightly exaggerating but not that much.

The number of US medical schools that will let you start medical school with only 30 US credit hours is very small. You should also be aware that the average applicant applies to 14 schools when applying to US medical schools yet the overall US medical school acceptance rate is at about 45%, so just because you might find a couple schools that allow you to do so doesn't mean that you have a very sound admissions plan.
 
The way you put it, it sounds like I have no choice but to move to the US to do my undergraduate degree. Won't me being 21 be to late to start the undergrad degree? I did a year and a half of academic studies, would be a shame for it all goes to waist. Can't any of the credit be at least recognized?
Also, I guess that I'll need to do the SAT's in order to apply to an undergrad in the US. Are there any other standardized tests needed?
I'll do a little research on what is required in order to admit to an undergrad in the US in premed, although if you could supply any material on the matter it would help.

The way you put it, I have two options: Go to the US and start my undergrad degree, or do an MD in Israel and return to the US for the internship (if this possibility exists).

I will still consult with the adviser I was directed to and see what she thinks.
 
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PsychMed91 said:
1) Won't me being 21 be to late to start the undergrad degree?
2) I did a year and a half of academic studies, would be a shame for it all goes to waist. Can't any of the credit be at least recognized?
3) Also, I guess that I'll need to do the SAT's in order to apply to an undergrad in the US. Are there any other standardized tests needed?
4) The way you put it, I have two options: Go to the US and start my undergrad degree, or do an MD in Israel and return to the US for the internship (if this possibility exists).
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1) If thirty-year-olds getting out of the military can start college, so can you. Age is no bar to starting college.

2) If a US college accepts the coursework credit in transfer, then you'd get credit for the hours taken, but usually the grades don't transfer and the second school's transcript says P/F for the grade. So it still doewsn't count toward your US GPA. Generally, one also gets a transcript evaluation serve like WES to "translate" the transcript grades into US equivalents and sends one of these to each med school one is applying to.

3) That should do it. I think these days one can submit the ACT or SAT (correct me if I'm wrong sector9, as I'm far removed from such considerations).

4) Yes, one can apply for a US residency after completing a foreign med school program, but I think the most recent stats show that only 50% get a spot (compared to 97% American grads, and 41% nonAmerican foreign grads).

*************************
A point to keep in mind is that DO med schools do accept foreign transcripts, BTW.
 
PsychMed91 said:
1) I can volunteer in a psychiatric hospital, but won't it be enough? What other institutions are recommended? Where is the best place to receive clinical experience
2) (as I doubt that laboratories let undergraduates participate in experiments of doctorates and professors).
3) I read the AMCAS manual and found out that there is a section for "Other Schools" in the transcript section. Therefore, I don't understand why would it be a problem.
My degree is from Bar-Ilan university, and is an international degree recognized in the US.
Click to expand...
1) A regular hospital for the medically ill and injured, a nursing home that provides skilled care, a medical clinic, a rehab center, are all places that one might volunteer to gain the needed patient contact. There are lots of places where you can potentially get patient interaction experience. When you return to the US, you would want to volunteer there, also, to gain a perspective on American medical institutions.

2) Actually, many campus labs do let undergrads help with research as they are a cheap source of free labor in exchange for academic credit.

3) I did not see your school's name in the AMCAS Instruction manual as one of those that is recognized by AMCAS so that a transcript would be accepted. But if your school has an affiliation with, for example, NYU, then it might be recognized.
 
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Like yourself, I also have a foreign pre med, although my bachelors and masters was done in the US. (long story). I ran into the AMCAS problem too. Here's what it boiled down to: if the courses were listed on a US school transcript (like say you transferred) then that's ok, but if it's like my case (or like yours from what I read on your post) where the classes are from a foreign institution, not transferred, then you list the courses on AMCAS, but they will not count towards your gpa, AMCAS will NOT verify that transcript and thus schools will not see the official transcript confirming that you meet their prerequisites for admission. The only way around it would be to have your foreign transcripts evaluated by an educational credencialing service such as Josef Silney or WED and then have THAT sent directly to the prospective medical school.... However by the time you get a chance to request that special permission, many schools might have already screened you out due to the AMCAS not meeting the prereqs thing. And many other schools will probably not make the exception...I was only able to find one that would consider me, but then they lost their accreditation, so I withdrew my application So how am I dealing with it? I'm applying DO. In he AACOMAS booklet it explains what you need to do for foreign credentials (Josef Silny, etc...). The AMCAS isn't so foreign friendly it seems.
 
The way you present it I see that it would be still much easier to do the MD here in Israel, than return to the US after my Bsc. As I mentioned, moving to the US right now will be impossible for me, and admitting to a good medical school there considering me doing a Bsc. from an unaffiliated university by the AMCAS will be problematic.

I found out that one of the universities here does a conjoined degree with an American medical school. The program:
http://medicine.tau.ac.il/english/index.php/ny/about

Please express your opinion on the matter considering past posts.
 
Here are last year's residency match results:



tednus said:
sackler 2011 match list

CLASS OF 2011 RESIDENCY POSITIONS:​

ANESTHESIOLOGY
Boston University Medical Center, Boston Massachusetts
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Monteifore Medical Center, Bronx, New York
University of California San Francisco Program, San Francisco, California
University of Rochester/Strong Memorial Hosp., Rochester, New York

FAMILY MEDICINE
Jackson Memorial Hospital Program, Miami, Florida
Kaiser Permanente Orange County, California
University of Connecticut Health Center, Farmington, Connecticut

INTERNAL MEDICINE
George Washington University, Washington, DC
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Jacobi Medical Center, Bronx, New York
Cedars Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles, California
Drexel University COM/Hahnemann University Hosp., Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Johns Hopkins University/Sinai Hospital, Baltimore, Maryland
Lenox Hill Hospital Program, New York, New York
Maimonides Medical Center, Brooklyn, New York
Mount Sinai School of Medicine Program, New York, New York
Oregon Health & Science University Program, Portland, Oregon
SUNY Health Science Center, Brooklyn, New York
Winthrop University Hospital Program, Mineola, New York
Staten Island University Hospital, Staten Island, New York

MEDICINE PRELIMINARY
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Monteifore Medical Center, Bronx, New York
Louisiana State University/Ochsner Clinic Foundation Prgm., New Orleans, Louisiana
Maimonides Medical Center, Brooklyn, New York
University of Missouri at Kansas City Program, Kansas City, Missouri

EMERGENCY MEDICINE
Rhode Island Hospital/Brown University Program, Providence, Rhode Island
SUNY Health Science Center, Brooklyn, New York
University of Massachusetts Medical School, Worcester, Massachusetts

OBSTETRICS & GYNECOLOGY
Albert Einstein Medical Center, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Emory University Program, Atlanta, Georgia
Lenox Hill Hospital Program, New York, New York
Lutheran Medical Center, Brooklyn, New York
St. Barnabas Medical Center Program, Livingston, New Jersey

OPHTHALMOLOGY
Louisiana State University/Ochsner Clinic Foundation Prgm., New Orleans, Louisiana
George Washington University, Washington, DC


OTOLARYNGOLOGY
University of Pennsylvania Program, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania


PEDIATRICS
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Jacobi Medical Center, Bronx, New York
Childrens National Medical Center/George Washington U. Program, Washington, DC
Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Los Angeles, California
North Shore-Long Island Jewish Health System, New Hyde Park, New York
St. Louis Childrens Hospital, St. Louis, Missouri
SUNY Health Science Center, Brooklyn, New York
University of Connecticut Health Center, Farmington, Connecticut
University of New Mexico Program, Albuquerque, New Mexico

PEDIATRICS PRELIMINARY
SUNY Health Science Center, Brooklyn New York

PSYCHIATRY
Georgetown University Hospital Program, Washington, DC
University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

PHYSICIAL MEDICINE & REHABILATION
Boston University Medical Center, Boston, Massachusetts
Mount. Sinai School of Medicine Program, New York, New York
SUNY Health Science Center, Brooklyn, New York

RADIOLOGY DIAGNOSTIC
Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Jacobi Medical Center, Bronx, New York
Bronx Lebanon Hospital Center Program, Bronx, New York
Mount. Sinai School of Medicine Program, New York, New York

SURGERY
Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Monteifore Medical Center, Bronx, New York
Drexel University COM/Hahnemann University Hosp., Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Maimonides Medical Center, Brooklyn, New York
Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital, Santa Barbara, California

SURGERY PRELIMINARY
Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Boston, Massachusetts
Lenox Hill Hospital Program, New York, New York


TRANSITIONAL
Maryland General Hospital, Baltimore Maryland
St. Mary's Mercy Hospital, Livonia, Michigan


Urology
Wayne State University/Detroit Medical Center, Detroit, Michigan
Click to expand...
I think I counted 59 people including Prelims which are probably represented twice. You'll want to find out where the rest of the folks in that year are doing their residency. Maybe some stay in Israel or go to Canada.
 
PsychMed91 said:
The way you put it, it sounds like I have no choice but to move to the US to do my undergraduate degree. Won't me being 21 be to late to start the undergrad degree? I did a year and a half of academic studies, would be a shame for it all goes to waist. Can't any of the credit be at least recognized?
Also, I guess that I'll need to do the SAT's in order to apply to an undergrad in the US. Are there any other standardized tests needed?
I'll do a little research on what is required in order to admit to an undergrad in the US in premed, although if you could supply any material on the matter it would help.

The way you put it, I have two options: Go to the US and start my undergrad degree, or do an MD in Israel and return to the US for the internship (if this possibility exists).

I will still consult with the adviser I was directed to and see what she thinks.
Click to expand...

If your goal is going to med school in the US, then those credits will go to waste anyway either you drop it or not unless you can transfer the credits. just a thought and I am not an expert
 
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It seems that the Sekler school program here in Israel will be best, as the academic credit I'll receive will be valid. I will do some more research on that program. I wonder if the Einstein school (at YU, a jewish university) offers any programs that would ease on such a process.

Thank you for your help!

If anything else comes to mind, please post.
 
Einstein's website says:
Students who have earned baccalaureate degrees outside the U.S. or Canada are required to complete at least one year of formal coursework in the sciences (about 30 credit hours) in an accredited American college or university prior to making application to the College of Medicine.
Click to expand...
Quoted from: http://www.einstein.yu.edu/admissions/page.aspx?id=592
 
I saw that page a while back, guess that's not an option as well.
I sent Sackler an email asking if they would accept a foreign degree. I hope that the fact that they're located in Israel would make things easier.
Didn't see anything on their website that would suggest otherwise.

Thanks cat
 
Well, it appears that Sackler doesn't acknowledge Israeli degrees as well.
The only way to get to an American medical school, now the way I see it, is to do a premed in the US. Unfortunately, I don't have the means to do that right now + I'm almost finishing my BSc. in Israel.
Guess I'll get in a 4 year medical program in an Israeli university and apply for a residency in Psychiatry in the US.

Any of you know the chances of getting into residency with a foreign MD degree? How competitive is the residency in psychiatry? Do I have any chance to get into a top ranked medical residency with such means?

Just seems easier and more practical to do it this way.
To crunch the numbers, if I go to the US for a premed it would mean:
This year off for SAT's and admission --> Next year could be off as well because of the admission process --> Two years premed --> one year MCATs and admission --> Medical School
If I stay in Israel it would be much more efficient: one and a half year premed --> Medical School.

I hope you can see my point of view here. Plus, universities in Israel charge tuition of around 8 grand a year and you can work during your degree if you wish.

Thoughts?
 
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