Official NBME details from AAOMS

Don't really understand why they only offer it one day per year??? Is it because they think people will write down the questions for it or something?

Ask anyone who has taken Part I about the "remembered-question" bulls*** that has plagued dentistry for years. Only being offered one day per year is something you want.

senpai said:

Ask anyone who has taken Part I about the "remembered-question" bulls*** that has plagued dentistry for years. Only being offered one day per year is something you want.

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Let's start down this new path with equal opportunity for all. Hopefully they'll collect enough money to write new stuff every year.

Anyone in the loop have an idea how long scores will take after the examination to be reported and delivered to PASS?

With a September 8th testing date, if scores take 4 weeks to return (such as with the NBDE), it would place this upcoming cycle's applicants in a close time crunch with some of the earlier program's deadlines.

That is unless programs are either:

a) anticipating this and pushing back deadlines.
b) don't care, this wasn't meant for this upcoming cycle's applicants anyway.

GTFOOMICT said:

Let's start down this new path with equal opportunity for all. Hopefully they'll collect enough money to write new stuff every year.

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Amen. It's amazing it has gone on this long.

Holy smokes, that is expensive for the NBME!!! I took several versions of it as I prepared for Step I USMLE. I don't remember the cost each time but it was only like $20-50 bucks (somewhere in that range I believe). AAOMS is really taking some taxes out on this one. Having the exam once yearly will eliminate those individuals who decide they want to apply to OMS late in academic year. Better have your ducks lined up! NBME typically gives you your score at the completion of the exam which is about half the length of USMLE. Good luck.

Any idea what a competitive score will be? or will that be determined as more and more people take it...

So everyone applying this 2012 cycle will have to take this nbme?
?
What about for folks that have taken NBDE I ? Is that pass/fail now?

I've wondered about the same thing. I've noticed on the Loma Linda site that they are telling their applicants who have taken the part 1 before Jan. 1, 2012 that they don't have to take the NBME...

mr24 said:

Any idea what a competitive score will be? or will that be determined as more and more people take it...

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Yeah I am curious to know where the cutoff is as well but like you said, I don't think they have one yet.

So does it look like people like me (take boards after my D1 year this July) can't take the NBME for another year? You really have to have finished the 2nd year? That stinks!! I could probably do better if I could take it right after I do Part 1 of nbde!!! What do you guys think?

So is this for sure REQUIRED for us 3rd year students who already have a numerical score on NBDE Part 1? I've heard it's recommended or suggested, but not formally that it's required. But the more I look into it, the more it seems that it is...any one know for sure?

So is this test going to be basically the same as a normal NBME or is it going to be modifed for OMS. For example, most schools don't dissect below the waist or go as in depth on some topics as medical school, so are you excepted to know all that stuff that 80% of dental schools don't cover?

I was under impression if u had a numerical score for pt 1 nbme wasnt mandatory

Also...sunce it's offered once a year, u only have to take it once correct? U could take it d3 year, and then apply with it 3 years later?

James35 said:

So is this test going to be basically the same as a normal NBME or is it going to be modifed for OMS. For example, most schools don't dissect below the waist or go as in depth on some topics as medical school, so are you excepted to know all that stuff that 80% of dental schools don't cover?

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I am quite certain you are going to take exactly what it says you are going to take: NBME. There are many versions out if you go to the website and sign up to take an exam. I don't know if AAOMS will have everyone take one of the old versions or if you will all take the most recent version on test day.

This much I will tell you. They would never dilute it to suit dental education. As an OMFS resident, you will need to be every bit as competent as your MD colleagues. Indeed, most dental schools give an attenuated medical education, especially in general path. USMLE (and NBME by extension) is pathology. Every question is integrated pathology. It is always multistep. You will have a patient. The patient will have symptomalogy; your job is not merely to diagnose. It is to know what to do. You will diagnose your patient (based on the symptoms, labs and findings) and the question will ask you the most common side effect of the first-line drug to treat the patient. This is a standard question type. You have to know stuff that won't help you much in a Part I exam. A dental board exam will not likely require you to know the classifications of the anti-arrhythmic meds and which ones will prolong the Q-T interval (as an example). I suggest knowing the common cardiac murmurs backwards and forwards for NBME, meaning knowing what you hear and where you hear it most loudly.

Save your knowledge of pemphigus vulgaris and osteogenesis imperfecta for your dental boards. NBME is more likely to ask you about Von-hippel Lindau syndrome or the enzymes associated with Maple Urine disease.

It would be "reasonable" for the programs to require the people applying the next cycle to take NBME to establish a crude correlation between NBDE Part I and NBME so it would help them in the subsequent cycles, but studying for NBME in August is the last thing I'd want to do given other things that I need to take care of.

They have already done this. The incoming residents last year took the exam after they had matriculated so as to give an idea of what they should expect from people who successfully matched.

Michael Scarn said:

They have already done this. The incoming residents last year took the exam after they had matriculated so as to give an idea of what they should expect from people who successfully matched.

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Any word on how first year residents scored?

FYI- Search button is functioning and has the answers to the meaning of life, and the majority of your questions...


Letter #1
AAOMS TO UTLIZE THE NBME CBSE FOR 2012
In order to provide OMS applicants with an opportunity to measure their understanding of the basic sciences and provide an enhanced mechanism for OMS programs to evaluate applicants for 2012-2013 positions, AAOMS will offer the NBME CBSE in August/September 2012. Going forward, the examination will be administered annually, one day a year, through Prometric test centers. The approximate examination fee will be $150 and registration will open in February 2012. Dental students may apply following their second year and may complete the exam, annually, as desired. Only the highest score will be considered. The complete application process will be handled through the AAOMS. For more information please contact Mary Allaire-Schnitzer, Director, Advanced Education and Professional Affairs or at 800/822-6637 ext. 4315.
Letter #2
Thank you for your interest gaining information relative to applying for oral and maxillofacial surgery.

The AAOMS will offer the NBME CBSE to interested dental students in the Fall 2012. The exam registration will be available in February 2012 with further details forthcoming and to be advertised in two different medias of the ASDA. An interested dental student can take the exam at the completion of their second year (or early of third year based on time of examination being offered) of dental school and essentially take it three times, once at the end of your second, third and fourth and only the highest score will be considered by the OMS program when applying to the programs. The idea is to provide the best opportunity for the dental student when he/she feels most prepared to participate and take the examination. So if a student was to complete dental school in 2014 you could take the exam in 2013 and/or 2012.

Any dental student with a numerical score on the NBDE will not be required to take the NBME CBSE. The score reports will be available 72 hours following the completion of the exam. All OMS programs will require the completion of the NBME CBSE, for any dental student applying who does not have a numerical score on the NBDE.

The NBME CBSE is designed to reflect the format and content covered in Step 1 of the USMLE. The exam will assess the important concepts of the sciences basic to the practice of medicine, with special emphasis on principles and mechanisms underlying health, disease, and modes of therapy.

I hope the above helps clarify your questions. If you have any additional questions please contact me at 800/822-6637 ext. 4315 or via email.

Thank you.

Mary
Letter #3
We are encouraging dental students to take it at the end of their second year, with the anticipation that they would have completed the basic science portion of the dental school curriculum. However, you are welcome to take it in your first year if you feel prepared and are willing to pay the examination fee. You may complete the examination, annually, as desired. Only the highest score will be considered. The examination will be administered annually, one day a year, through Prometric test centers. The approximate examination fee will be $150-175 and registration will open in February 13, 2012. You will be able to apply for programs in your fourth year, as the scores will be available within 72 hours of completion of the exam and the OMS programs will be aware of this transition of score reporting for the first several years.

The complete application process will be handled through the AAOMS. Some additional details include: an email with information on how to schedule their seat for the examination at a local Prometric testing center will be sent to the dental student, score reports will be available within 72 hours of completing the examination, OMS Programs can verify applicants score with AAOMS and the CBSE Scores will not be available to medical schools.

Dental students with a numeric score from the dental boards will not be required to sit for the NBME CBSE. Sample exam content and details about the CBSE can be reached through NBME specially at the following linkhttp://www.nbme.org/students/Subject-Exams/subexams.html The NBME CBSE is similar to the USMLE Step I exam.

The exact date has yet to be set, but we are looking at August 25th or September 8th.

I hope that the above information is helpful. Please let me know if you have any questions or need additional information. Thank you and have a great day.

Mary

Letter #4 (above)
Introducing Comprehensive Basic Science Examination in 2012

In order to provide OMS Applicants an opportunity to measure their understanding of the basic sciences and provide an enhanced mechanism for OMS program to evaluate applicants for 2012-2013 positions.
 AAOMS will offer the NBME CBSE September 8, 2012
 The examination will be administered annually, one day a year, through Prometric test centers
 Examination fee-$175
 Registration for the examination will be open February 20, 2012 and close April 13, 2012. To register visit http://www.aaoms.org/residency.php
 Dental Students may apply following their second year and may complete the exam as often as desired and only the highest score will be considered
 Application process will be handled through the AAOMS Email with information on how to schedule your seat for the examination at a local Prometric testing center Score report will be available within 72 hours of completing the examination o OMS Programs can verify applicants score with AAOMS o CBSE Scores will not be available to medical schools
 Sample Exam Content and details about the CBSE visit
http://www.nbme.org/students/Subject.../subexams.html
Visit www.aaoms.org/residency for more information or contact the AAOMS
Advanced Education and Resident Affairs at 800.822-6637, ext. 431

when does nbde 1 go pass/fail?

L8DYV said:

when does nbde 1 go pass/fail?

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Already did starting the new year.

The Anhedonia said:

just dropped 175 bones for this thing.

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So how will dental students study for this test? Because I didn't think there were materials specific to the nbme, only usmle1?

I would also think that the residents who took it last year would have quite a wide range in scores as the 6 years who just took step 1 should have done a lot better than the 4 years who have not prepared for the exam at any point.

But I could be very wrong.

The 6 year guys who took the NBME took it well before they started prepping for step 1. They were instructed to take it without preparing. At least at my program.

The USMLE step 1 study material is gonna be good for this test. Use old exams and first aid along with maybe some goljian path and U-world.

I signed up as well. We should start a thread about study materials and tips like in the NBDE and USMLE forums. I'm about 400 questions into UWorld and I'm getting my lunch handed to me lol. I don't know as much Pharm as I should........

michael scarn said:

the usmle step 1 study material is gonna be good for this test. Use old exams and first aid along with maybe some goljian path and u-world.

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word.

Michael Scarn said:

The 6 year guys who took the NBME took it well before they started prepping for step 1. They were instructed to take it without preparing. At least at my program.

The USMLE step 1 study material is gonna be good for this test. Use old exams and first aid along with maybe some goljian path and U-world.

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How did the residents score and what kind of scores are programs looking for?

Spaceman Spif said:

I signed up as well. We should start a thread about study materials and tips like in the NBDE and USMLE forums. I'm about 400 questions into UWorld and I'm getting my lunch handed to me lol. I don't know as much Pharm as I should........

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we do not take pharm until fall of D3 year at my school...are you saying I should wait to take the nbme? or will I have to take the exam before taking pharm regardless?? Doesn't it only open once every fall? Also, when does everyone (in school) start applying for OMS residency? Spring of D3???

zoralsurgeon said:

we do not take pharm until fall of D3 year at my school...are you saying I should wait to take the nbme? or will I have to take the exam before taking pharm regardless?? Doesn't it only open once every fall? Also, when does everyone (in school) start applying for OMS residency? Spring of D3???

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You will apply during your last summer (this was the first of three semesters for us as D4s)
Thus you will need the NBME before that for a timely application submission so the fall of your D3 year (the second of three semesters in my school's d3 year)

They recommend after your D2 year that you take it

Feel free to correct me if I am incorrect

does the # of times you take it really not matter? ie. will residency programs see all your scores? debating whether I should register and just take it as a practice run

and bad idea to take it before end of 2nd year?

im not even in dental school yet, let alone an oral surg residency, and these new policies scare/annoy me. id rather just take the mcat after d2. just my random $0.02

The Anhedonia said:

why the F would you want to take the MCAT? that has zero application or utility when it comes to (1) the knowledge you've learned in dental school and (2) relevancy for OMS applications.

the point of this new exam is not an arbitrary hurdle but an accurate and calibrated measure of knowledge - the MCAT is not at all suitable for this in this context.

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lol be nice

For real though, I am curious as to what the scoring is like...what average is among those that have matched that have happened to take the NBME at some point (as many have already stated they have in yrs past)...anyone?

zoralsurgeon said:

lol be nice

For real though, I am curious as to what the scoring is like...what average is among those that have matched that have happened to take the NBME at some point (as many have already stated they have in yrs past)...anyone?

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Who's to say it's the same scoring scale?

It's a tough situation to be in with all these unknowns, just study hard and do your best. I feel for everyone.

It wouldn't change ANYTHING if I told you our class averaged an 84, or was that a 212, or was it 185. Doesn't matter, your goals and study process won't change. You're not competing with us. You're competing with your colleagues. I think the 'study' they did was dumb. I took mine at 10pm at night because magically the due date on the exam was changed to that day. The 400 people that apply to OMS will get thrown on a bell curve and they'll go from there. This will get rid of all the ortho OR oms people though. This is going to be a big hurdle!

I for one would have struggled with this test given my basic science prep in dental school and the amount of time we had off. But I would have figured it out.

GTFOOMICT said:

Who's to say it's the same scoring scale?

It's a tough situation to be in with all these unknowns, just study hard and do your best. I feel for everyone.

It wouldn't change ANYTHING if I told you our class averaged an 84, or was that a 212, or was it 185. Doesn't matter, your goals and study process won't change. You're not competing with us. You're competing with your colleagues. I think the 'study' they did was dumb. I took mine at 10pm at night because magically the due date on the exam was changed to that day. The 400 people that apply to OMS will get thrown on a bell curve and they'll go from there. This will get rid of all the ortho OR oms people though. This is going to be a big hurdle!

I for one would have struggled with this test given my basic science prep in dental school and the amount of time we had off. But I would have figured it out.

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I would imagine the amount of applicants this year will be less...but the amount of applicants who actuall stand a chance will not change. I agree that the residents who took the nbme is not a good indication of what an average will be... Just too much variation.

But i agree, you stil have to do as well as you can. It will definetely be interesting to see the average scores if/when they get posted and to find out what the new "90" will be...I'm glad I dont have to deal with this process, seems like a headache

The Anhedonia said:

why the F would you want to take the MCAT? that has zero application or utility when it comes to (1) the knowledge you've learned in dental school and (2) relevancy for OMS applications.

the point of this new exam is not an arbitrary hurdle but an accurate and calibrated measure of knowledge - the MCAT is not at all suitable for this in this context.

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The MCAT correlates with USMLE Step 1 scores, and because only 4 dental schools in the country integrate the medical and dental educations, it would put a large number of us at a disadvantage for the NBME. Since an OMFS residency typically involves you being enrolled in medical school the first two years, the MCAT seems to be the best measure of immediate success, whereas the NBME may only show latter success, depending on the knowledge you are being assessed on. However, I'm not in the process yet, so take it with a grain of salt. And I actually preferred the MCAT over the DAT, but that's only because ai did a little better on it lol.

On a related note, do dental schools allow students to take courses with medical students or your schedule is fixated regardless of your ambitions?

imrealgerman said:

The MCAT correlates with USMLE Step 1 scores, and because only 4 dental schools in the country integrate the medical and dental educations, it would put a large number of us at a disadvantage for the NBME. Since an OMFS residency typically involves you being enrolled in medical school the first two years, the MCAT seems to be the best measure of immediate success, whereas the NBME may only show latter success, depending on the knowledge you are being assessed on. However, I'm not in the process yet, so take it with a grain of salt. And I actually preferred the MCAT over the DAT, but that's only because ai did a little better on it lol.

On a related note, do dental schools allow students to take courses with medical students or your schedule is fixated regardless of your ambitions?

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The nbme is a prelude for the usmle step 1 and gives a very strong predictor on the usmle1. I think you're kind of mixed up in your understanding.

I see what you're saying about dental being at a disadvantage for the nbme, but what you're not understanding is that 6 year omfs programs want you at the point, academically, beyond step 1. Most programs start you as MS3 or maybe 2.5...they don't teach you the BS classes.

And no yOu cannot take elective medical classes

Ahhhh ok. Thanks for the clarification. Well here's to hoping I get in off Columbia's waitlist so I can just take medical coursework anyways lol.

Machiavelliansm said:

does the # of times you take it really not matter? ie. will residency programs see all your scores? debating whether I should register and just take it as a practice run

and bad idea to take it before end of 2nd year?

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anyone know the answer to this?

To previous poster:

1. You are allowed to take the exam up to 3 times. Programs will consider your highest score.

2. Apparently all of the OMFS programs will see your score but the 6 year corresponding med programs will not. I think this is ridiculous and defeating the purpose of the test, IMO.

3. I am a 2nd year now and I plan to take the exam this September ONCE. Spend the time and knock it out. Plus, getting my app/letters ready will take up most of my time for next year - which means no time to really study.

Spaceman Spif said:

To previous poster:

1. You are allowed to take the exam up to 3 times. Programs will consider your highest score.

2. Apparently all of the OMFS programs will see your score but the 6 year corresponding med programs will not. I think this is ridiculous and defeating the purpose of the test, IMO.

3. I am a 2nd year now and I plan to take the exam this September ONCE. Spend the time and knock it out. Plus, getting my app/letters ready will take up most of my time for next year - which means no time to really study.

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programs will consider your highest score but will they "see" your other scores?

Spaceman Spif said:

To previous poster:

1. You are allowed to take the exam up to 3 times. Programs will consider your highest score.

2. Apparently all of the OMFS programs will see your score but the 6 year corresponding med programs will not. I think this is ridiculous and defeating the purpose of the test, IMO.

3. I am a 2nd year now and I plan to take the exam this September ONCE. Spend the time and knock it out. Plus, getting my app/letters ready will take up most of my time for next year - which means no time to really study.

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You misread... The med schools will not be able to see it...the omfs programs still can

The Anhedonia said:

imrealgerman, sorry i wasnt trying to flame you - i'm just saying i'd much rather prep for the NBME from my dental school (columbia) rather than studying for the s*** that's on the MCATS (god forbid i ever have to learn algebra again).

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no worries. I hated math like it was a BP oil exec so I know that feeling and have no idea how I managed a 23QR haha. columbia seems like the best school for pre-oral-surg so you'll probably be more than fine. if you've looked over prep material, would you be able to say if columbia's prepared you well for it?

The Anhedonia said:

meh. too early to tell. we learn a tremendous amount of biomed that isnt related to dentistry in a direct sense. so all of the effectively useless information may come in handy for this exam. we shall see

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pretty sure its like this at most schools. sometimes i feel like they're training us to become cardiologists or something. do u guys take clinical medicine type classes at columbia or is it just the basic sciences that you share with the med students?

Wonder if the aaoms has a vested interest in making applicants take more tests.

So oral surgery programs can see your score, but is that in reference to previous scores as well? So if I took it at the end of 2nd year and then had time to take it at the end of 3rd year right before applying, they'd only see the higher of the 2?