Should I report it? PLEASE HELP

GBfan5 said:

I recently was charged with possession of a small amount of marijuana and a 1st offence OWI in Wisconsin for driving under the influence of Marijuana. I have discussed the situation with my lawyer and neither of these charges are criminal but rather municipal ordinance violations that are dealt with in city court. My court date is set for December 18th and by then I will have already been through the medical school application process so I was wondering what I need to disclose. I have done countless hours of research and have contacted Certiphi (AMCAS criminal background service) and I am struggling to find a definitive answer. I am positive that neither of my crimes are considered criminal in Wisconsin so I have a clean criminal record, but I am not sure if these charges will show up on a report. Also, do the open cases show up either way?
-Please help.

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Run the report on yourself...

GBfan5 said:

I would but Certiphi only does it for companies and schools. They won't run a personal one.

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I imagine you can get a company that runs one on you that is similar, if not better? You should at least give it a shot. If not, honesty is better than begging for them not to reject you.

I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't need to report this. You could always anonymously call a school you plan to apply to and ask them for their opinion, but I'd personally play it safe and assume it'll show up during your background check.

Is it just me or is it weird to have this many misdemeanor threads in one week?

Shalashaska said:

Is it just me or is it weird to have this many misdemeanor threads in one week?

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Nah, I think it's because AMCAS opened this week.

Holy FranZ said:

oh wow. How wouldn't it show up on a background check?






You may just want to start thinking St. George now if a OWI are equal to DUI.

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Oh heeey there

GBfan5 said:

In Wisconsin it isn't a criminal offense so no, they are not the same.

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1st - In Wisconsin OWI = DUI. It is just a wording difference.
2nd - According to the current WI law, 3rd OWI is a misdemeanor, 5th is a felony.

So, as much as it pains me to say this, according to AMCAS you are in the clear for not mentioning this on your primary application. Since every school is different, you'll have to play it by ear for secondaries. However, be aware that since this is drug related you may have issues down the road in getting past background checks for working in a VA facility or other facilities even though it isn't a criminal offense.

References from WI DOT: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/docs/owi-penchrt.pdf

GBfan5 said:

Thanks, that was what I was thinking as well.

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Don't thank me. I think you are an idiot who deserves to have a criminal record because of this.

Before you apply you should take some time and think seriously about why you did this. I'm not seeing any regret in your post and there should be.

GBfan5 said:

I am meeting with my adviser this week to discuss my options. I would rather report it and hope my explanation letter (as well as my great GPA and MCAT) will at least give me a chance at an interview, but if I don't need to report it then of course I would rather just leave it off. Are their any recommendations for services I could use to get a personal criminal background check run?

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Do NOT write an explanation letter.

Just don't.

After looking a little more at the state code (Yes, I actually to enjoy reading the laws) here is the information related to the possession of pot, a schedule I hallucinogenic drug:

961.41(3g)(e) - Tetrahydrocannabinols. If a person possesses or attempts to possess tetrahydrocannabinols included under s. 961.14 (4) (t), or a controlled substance analog of tetrahydrocannabinols, the person may be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned for not more than 6 months or both upon a first conviction and is guilty of a Class I felony for a 2nd or subsequent offense. For purposes of this paragraph, an offense is considered a 2nd or subsequent offense if, prior to the offender's conviction of the offense, the offender has at any time been convicted of any felony or misdemeanor under this chapter or under any statute of the United States or of any state relating to controlled substances, controlled substance analogs, narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant, stimulant, or hallucinogenic drugs.

GBfan5 said:

Oh, well I am sorry you feel that way. You seem like a good guy and I hope you are able to maintain your current 21 year abstinence streak all the way through life.

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It's the OWI I have a serious issue with. For that - you are an idiot.

GBfan5 said:

Like I said before, this is a very gray area in my city. My drug test results have not come back yet so if they come back and say that I didn't have enough to be considered impaired then I am off the hook. I passed the field sobriety tests and blew a 0.00 on the BAC calculator so my situation is somewhat different from those who went out, got drunk and then got behind the wheel.

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Dude, of course you're not going to blow anything if you weren't drinking. Driving while high, to which you are anonymously admitting to, is just as bad. There is no difference, so stop fooling yourself.

CopaceticOne said:

Don't thank me. I think you are an idiot who deserves to have a criminal record because of this.

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I lol'd so hard after reading this. You said it so matter-of-factly.

GBfan5 said:

Ok, your self-righteous belittling posts need to stop. Obviously I know how a BAC gauge works, I was just adding that bit of info to the thread. I have repeatedly stated that I accept responsibility so I am not sure where you are coming from saying I am "fooling myself." I came on here for advice and you have done nothing but chastise me for something that is completely unrelated to you.

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Well, you opened the door on the topic, so I'm just expressing my views.

GBfan5 said:

my situation is somewhat different from those who went out, got drunk and then got behind the wheel.

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This is why I said you are fooling yourself. Whether or not you are caught doesn't change what you did --- Drive while high.

Talk to your advisor, call some medical schools, and run a background check on yourself.

GBfan5 said:

Like I said before, this is a very gray area in my city. My drug test results have not come back yet so if they come back and say that I didn't have enough to be considered impaired then I am off the hook. I passed the field sobriety tests and blew a 0.00 on the BAC calculator so my situation is somewhat different from those who went out, got drunk and then got behind the wheel.

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Copacetic already explained why the fact that you blew a 0.00 is not relevant at all. I do think, however, that you should stop rationalizing your irresponsible behavior. I know that you said you take responsibility for your behavior, but trying to say that what you did isn't as bad as what the other guy did says to me that you aren't really taking responsibility for it. I'm not saying you're a scumbag -- that's not my place. But you should face the fact that you acted just as irresponsibly as those who get behind the wheel after drinking a bunch of booze. While it's true that you may be a less dangerous driver when driving stoned compared to drunk (ie stoners tend to drive slower than average and many drunks drive faster than average), you're still putting other people's lives at risk, and that's simply unacceptable. If there's anything positive to glean from this, maybe it's the fact that you realized something like this could impact your future.

It does seem outrageous to me that it would take two more instances of OWI in Wisconsin for you to get it bumped up to a misdemeanor -- that just seems extremely lenient. That's an indictment of the relative weakness of Wisconsin's traffic and criminal laws, however, and not an indictment of you or your behavior.

GBfan5 said:

Ok, your self-righteous belittling posts need to stop. Obviously I know how a BAC gauge works, I was just adding that bit of info to the thread. I have repeatedly stated that I accept responsibility so I am not sure where you are coming from saying I am "fooling myself." I came on here for advice and you have done nothing but chastise me for something that is completely unrelated to you.

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Yeah premeds like to act all high horsey about matters like this. In the eyes of the law perhaps they are the same but driving while drunk and driving while high are two different matters....and anyone who has smoked pot on the regular knows this. Anyways. I suggest you speak with a lawyer about this. Did you admit to being high to the cops? Because you can NOT prove someone was high...just that they have smoked recently. Maybe in your state (when combined with probable cause) a positive drug test is enough to state you were high who knows...but you cant prove that with a blood test. I am an older dude and a licensed clinical lab guy and ran drug tests for years before I went to med school so I am not just speaking out of my ass. Either way bro good luck. You ARE NOT the only person who has been busted for smoking weed. Its obviously bad for your file but not a death sentence.

DanGee777 said:

I lol'd so hard after reading this. You said it so matter-of-factly.

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Glad I could give you a chuckle

GBfan5 said:

Ok, your self-righteous belittling posts need to stop. Obviously I know how a BAC gauge works, I was just adding that bit of info to the thread. I have repeatedly stated that I accept responsibility so I am not sure where you are coming from saying I am "fooling myself." I came on here for advice and you have done nothing but chastise me for something that is completely unrelated to you.

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Are you kidding me? When you make the decision to drive impaired, especially at an older more "responsible" age it's completely related to anyone who sets foot on or near the road as well as the families of those people. You've reached past the point where you can just say "whoopsies I messed up" and then move along. When you drive impaired you put everyone at risk, and like I said its related to everyone. My grandma was killed my a drunk driver. Does that concern me? Yes, every day of my life. Does the fact that you could've killed someone and taken away another girls grandma concern me? Yes. Stop trying to rationalize this with "my headlight was broken" and "i blew a zero on a BAC" it's very offensive. Furthermore it's not self righteousness it's calling you out because you just might get away with this and still go into one of the most trusted professions. You deserve to get called out and should consider yourself lucky that you didn't kill anyone and go to jail.

Interesting reading on the leniency of Wisconsin OWI/DWI laws:

http://thepoliticalenvironment.blogspot.com/2011/09/make-first-offense-owi-in-wisconsin.html

"Another effort is underway to put Wisconsin in line with the other 49 states and make first-offense drunk driving more than the mere ticket it is now.

I've lost track of the number of times I have argued for this on my blog for years.

I find it unlikely that the Legislature and Governor have the spine to take on the state's brewing, tavern and "hospitality" lobbies.

Note that pilots may bot fly within eight hours of consuming any alcohol. Reflex impairment after imbibing is a well-known reality."

Simply put, GB, it sounds to me like you should thank your lucky stars that this didn't happen to you in any of the other 49 states, or you'd have to explain this on your AMCAS.


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More info on Wisconsin:

http://www.totaldui.com/news/articles/legislation/wisconsin-dui-laws-push-for-change.aspx

"People in other areas might be quite surprised - or not - to learn that quite a lot of drinking goes on in Wisconsin. The state reportedly leads the nation in binge drinking and has every year in the decade that the Centers for Disease Control has kept track. Binge drinking is defined as the consumption of five or more alcoholic drinks in one sitting for males and four or more for females.

Unfortunately, Wisconsin also stands out as the state where more people drink and drive than anywhere else in the country. The National Survey on Drug Use and Health reports that the state has the highest incidence of DUI-related (OWI-related) deaths in the United States"

GBfan5 said:

I meant because there is not a definitive answer to whether or not I am guilty based on the fact that there is no concrete evidence against me yet. I have kids like you in my classes. The ones who find old exams or study guides but never share them due to the fact that they don't want to give anyone an advantage over themselves. Good luck in the future man, sorry about your two decade+ virginity streak.

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um...what? Just because you haven't been caught red-handed doesn't make you any less guilty. You still committed the action, whether or not anyone saw it. logic/ethics fail.

GBfan5 said:

You, sir, are a true gentleman. I never admitted I was high (which is the truth) and maintained my innocence throughout the situation. I have a lawyer and I will definitely weigh my options. Thank you for your sound advice.

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If you're really determined to fight this then I recommend to you that you ask a moderator to delete the thread, although they may not agree to do that. Any half competent DA will do an investigation if you take this ticket to trial (a bench trial, I assume) and there is a remote possibility that they could stumble upon this thread and find your posts admitting your responsibility. I realize that you probably believe everything on the internet is anonymous, but not always. There are subpoenas for IP addresses, etc.

Besides, if you do take it to trial, maybe the local newspaper has a court reporter who sees you fighting your OWI charge and includes it in a blotter. Perhaps then an ad-comm at some school to which you're applying can decide to google your real name and boom, he or she finds the article. Even if you aren't required by AMCAS to report it, my guess is that's an instant rejection at any school that discovers it. Just some things to think about, GB.

P.S. -- some background checks include civil violations -- although I'm not sure if Certiphi does. If it does, then obviously med schools will see it, and they probably won't like it very much.

GBfan5 said:

I meant because there is not a definitive answer to whether or not I am guilty based on the fact that there is no concrete evidence against me yet. I have kids like you in my classes. The ones who find old exams or study guides but never share them due to the fact that they don't want to give anyone an advantage over themselves. Good luck in the future man, sorry about your two decade+ virginity streak.

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Being convicted (aka found guilty) is different than actually being guilty of an act. (The joys of the legal system.) Throwing personal attacks towards me is meaningless within this dialog.

I'm surmising that you were hoping people would "be on your side". Because that isn't happening you are lashing out at someone who is cutting around any BS and getting to the heart of the matter. It's an interesting/common coping mechanism, but one that might not serve you well in your future endeavors.
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BTW - I love how you edited your original reply so that you sound repentant instead of cocky. Too bad it was already quoted (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12471958&postcount=20)

CopaceticOne said:

Being convicted (aka found guilty) is different than actually being guilty of an act. (The joys of the legal system.) Throwing personal attacks towards me is meaningless within this dialog.

I'm surmising that you were hoping people would "be on your side". Because that isn't happening you are lashing out at someone who is cutting around any BS and getting to the heart of the matter. It's an interesting/common coping mechanism, but one that might not serve you well in your future endeavors.
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BTW - I love how you edited your original reply so that you sound repentant instead of cocky. Too bad it was already quoted (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12471958&postcount=20)

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You seem like a tool and close to being a troll. OP was looking for advice, not a lesson on ethics. Get over yourself.

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shamwowzer said:

You seem like a tool and close to being a troll. OP was looking for advice, not a lesson on ethics. Get over yourself.

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Maybe the OP needs a lesson in ethics more than the advice they were looking for.

shamwowzer said:

You seem like a tool and close to being a troll. OP was looking for advice, not a lesson on ethics. Get over yourself.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

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Think that's a bit harsh. I don't think I was rude to the OP, but my initial frustration was with laws like this that result in applicants being allowed to hide a DUI/OWI from AMCAS and still be within the rules, yet require other applicants to report an institutional action from their freshman year stemming from getting busted for drinking in the dorms or for marijuana possession. Doesn't seem very consistent, does it? One of these is far more serious than the other, and it isn't the institutional action for drinking/smoking. And no, I don't have any institutional actions on my record.

DanGee777 said:

Think that's a bit harsh. I don't think I was rude to the OP, but my initial frustration was with laws like this that result in applicants being allowed to hide a DUI/OWI from AMCAS and still be within the rules, yet require other applicants to report an institutional action from their freshman year stemming from getting busted for drinking in the dorms or for marijuana possession. Doesn't seem very consistent, does it? One of these is far more serious than the other, and it isn't the institutional action for drinking/smoking. And no, I don't have any institutional actions on my record.

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I can see where youre coming from. I got institutional action because my room mate was drinking (and i wasnt), but they determined that i still would be lumped in with him.

Anyways, it just seemed odd how you were berating him for asking a question. Whether he's figured out that what he did was wrong or not, you giving him the business likely won't change anything.

On a side note, since im posting in the op's thread, i would advise him to be honest. If you know you did wrong, tell adcoms. This way, you wont have to worry about anything other than being yourself (which will benefit you).

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shamwowzer said:

Anyways, it just seemed odd how you were berating him for asking a question. Whether he's figured out that what he did was wrong or not, you giving him the business likely won't change anything.

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I never did that. Are you thinking of someone else? I gave him detailed and polite responses.

Is it just me, or what the heck is going on with all of these misdemeanor posts on here? Is it really that hard to refrain from having illegal drugs on you when you're interested in a medical career? Just stupid. Stop posting crap like this, yes it will be on a background check if you got busted, and yes adcoms are going to look the other direction. I mean, I'm just making an educated guess here, but I'd HOPE they'd pay more attention to the people who didn't get caught up with the law during their undergrad?

GBfan5 said:

I would but Certiphi only does it for companies and schools. They won't run a personal one.

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certiphi will do it for you if you have been granted a secondary.

Wow, the legal problems are out in force today, aren't they?

OP--here's my suggestion:

Talk to your attorney about going ahead and plea-ing out on this one. In some cases, going through certain court supervised programs may result in your record being expunged for a first-time, minor drug offense. If it has been expunged from your record, you have no duty to disclose (IIRC, AMCAS specifically states that you are not to report expunged charges).

Even if you can't get the arrest/charge expunged, think hard about disclosing it in your application, and hoping that the committee has a sense of humor. Odds are high that they will, and that they will appreciate your honesty. Remember: the physicians on today's admissions committee were once young people themselves. Smoking marijuana doesn't have anywhere near the stigma it used to have. Here, the issue isn't going to be that you were caught smoking. The issue is going to be whether you lie about it.

GBfan5 said:

Does certiphi run one before the secondary apps go out?

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SpecterGT260 said:

certiphi will do it for you if you have been granted a secondary.

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I'm confused, were you actually high while driving or did they just automatically charge you with OWI because you had pot on you while driving?

In any case, don't mess around with trying to hide it. The only thing worse than being rejected for this is being accepted, paying tuition for X number of semesters, then being dismissed for withholding information on your application.

Also, keep all your paperwork from this. Unfortunately, when you are applying for a medical license you will have to explain all of this in soul-crushing detail, complete with documentation.

GBfan5 said:

My drug test results have not come back yet so if they come back and say that I didn't have enough to be considered impaired then I am off the hook.

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CopaceticOne said:

Driving while high, to which you are anonymously admitting to, is just as bad.

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CopaceticOne said:

Whether or not you are caught doesn't change what you did --- Drive while high.

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DanGee777 said:

you should face the fact that you acted just as irresponsibly as those who get behind the wheel after drinking a bunch of booze.

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willen101383 said:

driving while drunk and driving while high are two different matters

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Ashley1989 said:

Are you kidding me? When you drive impaired you put everyone at risk, and like I said its related to everyone. You deserve to get called out and should consider yourself lucky that you didn't kill anyone and go to jail.

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Am I the only one who cared to read what OP wrote

I read it, I was just snickering over how SDN treats extraordinarily minor marijuana offenses (which are enormous wastes of public money to pursue and prosecute) like they have any standing on the person's moral or ethical worth.

It's just some pot. You guys need to get over yourselves.

Sounds like you are in the clear either way, OP, as your first offense (even if you test as impaired) won't be a crime either way.

centrigeugle said:

I read it, I was just snickering over how SDN treats extraordinarily minor marijuana offenses (which are enormous wastes of public money to pursue and prosecute) like they have any standing on the person's moral or ethical worth.

It's just some pot. You guys need to get over yourselves.

Sounds like you are in the clear either way, OP, as your first offense (even if you test as impaired) won't be a crime either way.

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I agree completely. As someone who has been through med school, the self-righteous, overly sanctimonious people are EXTREMELY annoying and make for terrible residents. You're always willing to sell out whoever is next to you in order to look better.

Yes CopaceticOne I am absolutely talking about you.