Dental therapists are only practicing in two states

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Parklife

Parklife

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But there was some evaluation done in 2010 that said dental therapists provide equivalent results compared to a dentist.

http://www.wkkf.org/news/Articles/2010/10/Alaska-Dental-Therapist-Program-Study.aspx


So what is it?


Are dentists overtrained and overeducated? Are we just upset because we're going to lose money, prestige, and jobs while paying for longer, harder education? Or is there a genuine concern that therapists are not able to provide treatment needed by the general public? Do we need to skip the science, and just learn what the therapists are learning?

Please care and share. 🙂
 
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Parklife said:
But there was some evaluation done in 2010 that said dental therapists provide equivalent results compared to a dentist.

http://www.wkkf.org/news/Articles/2010/10/Alaska-Dental-Therapist-Program-Study.aspx


So what is it?


Are dentists overtrained and overeducated? Are we just upset because we're going to lose money, prestige, and jobs while paying for longer, harder education? Or is there a genuine concern that therapists are not able to provide treatment needed by the general public? Do we need to skip the science, and just learn what the therapists are learning?


Please care and share. 🙂
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Being a COMPETENT dentist is more than just placing fillings. Poor oral health is sometimes a sign of a deeper problem elsewhere in the body. A competent dentist should be able to recognize oral health problems in relation to systemic disease and this requires extensive knowledge of anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, pathology, histology and pharmacology. To be competent in these subjects one must first study biology, chemistry, and organic chemistry. Also, competency in these subjects is necessary to read and understand scientific literature pertaining to the efficacy of certain treatments and materials. A competent dentist should always be studying and investigating scientific literature because it's always evolving. Dental therapists will not be as proficient in these tasks as a well trained dentist.

A good analogy is if you keep wearing out the front tires on your car and your mechanic tech (dental therapist) just replaces your tires over and over again because that's all their trained to do whereas a good mechanic (real dentist) will replace your tires and recognize that the alignment is off and fix that too.
 
persenmi said:
Being a COMPETENT dentist is more than just placing fillings. Poor oral health is sometimes a sign of a deeper problem elsewhere in the body. A competent dentist should be able to recognize oral health problems in relation to systemic disease and this requires extensive knowledge of anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, pathology, histology and pharmacology. To be competent in these subjects one must first study biology, chemistry, and organic chemistry. Also, competency in these subjects is necessary to read and understand scientific literature pertaining to the efficacy of certain treatments and materials. A competent dentist should always be studying and investigating scientific literature because it's always evolving. Dental therapists will not be as proficient in these tasks as a well trained dentist.

A good analogy is if you keep wearing out the front tires on your car and your mechanic tech (dental therapist) just replaces your tires over and over again because that's all their trained to do whereas a good mechanic (real dentist) will replace your tires and recognize that the alignment is off and fix that too.
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This is America. We're very stupid. The cheap mechanic wins. Band-aid>treatment. Paint>reconstruction. Duck tape>replacement. If the study indicates that dental therapists can do the work of a dentists for so much cheaper..what's that to say about dentists?

I'm sorry, this post was a half bump. I appreciate your comment. 🙂
 
persenmi said:
Being a COMPETENT dentist is more than just placing fillings. Poor oral health is sometimes a sign of a deeper problem elsewhere in the body. A competent dentist should be able to recognize oral health problems in relation to systemic disease and this requires extensive knowledge of anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, pathology, histology and pharmacology. To be competent in these subjects one must first study biology, chemistry, and organic chemistry. Also, competency in these subjects is necessary to read and understand scientific literature pertaining to the efficacy of certain treatments and materials. A competent dentist should always be studying and investigating scientific literature because it's always evolving. Dental therapists will not be as proficient in these tasks as a well trained dentist.

A good analogy is if you keep wearing out the front tires on your car and your mechanic tech (dental therapist) just replaces your tires over and over again because that's all their trained to do whereas a good mechanic (real dentist) will replace your tires and recognize that the alignment is off and fix that too.
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I agree. Dentistry is more than just drilling teeth. If you don't have a foundation in the biomedical sciences then you will not able to properly treatment plan. The patient will suffer because their treatments will be much less effective. Underlying problems could be missed. Dental therapists could actually drive up costs this way. This is why in most countries dental school is structured similarly to medical school. If the education was not necessary, I doubt that so many countries would require it.
 
KSDental said:
I agree. Dentistry is more than just drilling teeth. If you don't have a foundation in the biomedical sciences then you will not able to properly treatment plan. The patient will suffer because their treatments will be much less effective. Underlying problems could be missed. Dental therapists could actually drive up costs this way. This is why in most countries dental school is structured similarly to medical school. If the education was not necessary, I doubt that so many countries would require it.
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Makes sense. I remember someone here mentioning dentistry becoming a specialty of medicine, so I think that's valid. Still, what about the public opinion? How can someone consider a DNP, PA, DT on par with the real deal?

Thank you for replying. I know we're all sick of the doom and gloom(which btw, is present most on pharmacy, then optometry, then dentistry, then podiatry, and then medicine)
 
"The age of philosophy has passed...that of utility has commenced..." Yale Orator, 1844.

Parklife said:
Still, what about the public opinion? How can someone consider a DNP, PA, DT on par with the real deal?
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the big issue is that they are being created to solve the access to care problem.....and it wont help any. It will only further saturate already saturated areas. Its beyond me how our govt can work like this.
 
Lethstang said:
the big issue is that they are being created to solve the access to care problem.....and it wont help any. It will only further saturate already saturated areas. Its beyond me how our govt can work like this.
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Agreed. Most of these dental therapists, in future years, will just move to the very same areas of saturation, such as big cities and their suburbs and further increase competition among dentists.

ADA, save us.
 
artvandelay786 said:
Agreed. Most of these dental therapists, in future years, will just move to the very same areas of saturation, such as big cities and their suburbs and further increase competition among dentists.

ADA, save us.
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Well, we'll all just have to specialize to avoid losing our jobs to monkeys with forceps. :idea:

There is no indication that DT will spread - yet.
 
I think the first step is to provide more awareness of basic oral hygiene and common-sense food habits (less sugary drinks and fast foods before going to bed or throughout the day for that matter; this lifestyle is especially prevalent in poorer populations). If you fix this, you'll eradicate the vast majority of oral ailments because they are preventable. Then you raise medicare or medicaid reimbursements so that it's possible for dentists to accept medicare and still avoid bankruptcy ( I think this varies at the state level but will improve with Obamacare. I also think it would help if the mindset of those who apply to dental school would transition from a culture of wanting a good lifestyle, short schooling, and good income to one of moderation, more sacrifice, and good-will. But who are we kidding?) There are many good dentists though. They are the ones who I often see in the clinic and not just at a single MOM project during the entire year. These are also the ones who accept medicare or medicaid regardless of the bleak reimbursements. I'll probably change my mind when I get $300000 in loans or a family that I want to keep happy.
 
Stacker said:
I think the first step is to provide more awareness of basic oral hygiene and common-sense food habits (less sugary drinks and fast foods before going to bed or throughout the day for that matter; this lifestyle is especially prevalent in poorer populations). If you fix this, you'll eradicate the vast majority of oral ailments because they are preventable. Then you raise medicare or medicaid reimbursements so that it's possible for dentists to accept medicare and still avoid bankruptcy ( I think this varies at the state level but will improve with Obamacare. I also think it would help if the mindset of those who apply to dental school would transition from a culture of wanting a good lifestyle, short schooling, and good income to one of moderation, more sacrifice, and good-will. But who are we kidding?) There are many good dentists though. They are the ones who I often see in the clinic and not just at a single MOM project during the entire year. These are also the ones who accept medicare or medicaid regardless of the bleak reimbursements. I'll probably change my mind when I get $300000 in loans or a family that I want to keep happy.
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I think you can only request dentists to do that when:
A) Bring the Dentist debt and overhead down.
B) Make people be less scared to go to dentist.
C) Decrease human ambition drive

Since doing any of the above is really really impossible ( unless if the dentist in question is a close follower of the Dalai Lama, or whom the third option is possible), those actions you just said are never gonna happen.
 
I think dentists should have every right to strive for a good lifestyle and good income. I disagree that the schooling is short. 3 to 4 years of dental school is not an easy endeavor. There are plenty of easier ways to have a life style of moderation and to do charitable work than becoming and being a dentist.
 
Seriously. Why does everyone question the worth of a medical professional but place holding supervisors/executives who produce no revenue for their companies are earning at parity all the while receiving bonus' lol.

If anything physician/dentist compensation is much lower relative to the value, skills, and what people are willing to pay for [without gov. intervention]. People are selling themselves short. Coursework in business programs is freaking easy. I 4.0 econ, intermed accounting series, marketing, and finance with relative ease. Trust me - most those students could not handle pre-health course work or finish a health professional degree program. Without shame; graduate then leverage your skills as much as possible to earn the best lifestyle you can - everyone else is.


jwdent said:
I think dentists should have every right to strive for a good lifestyle and good income. I disagree that the schooling is short. 3 to 4 years of dental school is not an easy endeavor. There are plenty of easier ways to have a life style of moderation and to do charitable work than becoming and being a dentist.
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The ADA just did a study and a report was just published that demonstrates that dental therapists are not an economically viable option in the 5 subject states. Is it a conflict of interest? Probably, but it also makes sense.
 
diasIItema said:
The ADA just did a study and a report was just published that demonstrates that dental therapists are not an economically viable option in the 5 subject states. Is it a conflict of interest? Probably, but it also makes sense.
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The studies that the ADA has done, unlike other studies from agencies such as the Pew and Kellogg has actually looked not just at the question of if a dental therapist can competently do work (and study after study in many countries have shown that they can) but actually looked at the quetsion that Pew and Kellogg really haven't looked at (and maybe don't want to look at) which is if economically a dental therapist can work and if there is widespread implementation over decades would there be an increase in access and also an improvement in the overall oral health of the population. In particular of interest, and why this ADA study is quite relevant given the current fiscal situation facing so many governments (the folks who would be funding these programs), is the data coming out of New Zeland recently, where they've had dental therapists in place for over 70 years, and in the last 5 years have had governmental supplementation of dental therapists to the tune of a bit over 400 million dollars (a significant amount of $$ especially given New Zeland's relatively small geographic and population size). The decay rate amongst children in New Zeland is actually HIGHER than the decay rate amongst children in the United States. If you have a therapist model that has been implemented nationwide with "sufficient" governmental subsidation, and it's been in place for 70+ years, and one isn't seeing any net improvement in the overall oral health of the population, then any rationale person would have to question the efficacy of such a plan and whether or not it makes sense to invest the large amounts of time and money to get such a plan rolling in the United States.

The discussion overall isn't really about can a therapist competently perform the procedures that they've been trained to do, the discussion is shifting to does it make fiscal sense to implement such a plan and if so what, if any, effect will it have on the overall oral health of the population. It is becoming the classical situation where as much EMOTIONALLY that some want this to work, the FACTS just aren't backing it up, and fact trump fiction as our scientifically trained brains are taught.
 
DrJeff said:
The studies that the ADA has done, unlike other studies from agencies such as the Pew and Kellogg has actually looked not just at the question of if a dental therapist can competently do work (and study after study in many countries have shown that they can) but actually looked at the quetsion that Pew and Kellogg really haven't looked at (and maybe don't want to look at) which is if economically a dental therapist can work and if there is widespread implementation over decades would there be an increase in access and also an improvement in the overall oral health of the population. In particular of interest, and why this ADA study is quite relevant given the current fiscal situation facing so many governments (the folks who would be funding these programs), is the data coming out of New Zeland recently, where they've had dental therapists in place for over 70 years, and in the last 5 years have had governmental supplementation of dental therapists to the tune of a bit over 400 million dollars (a significant amount of $$ especially given New Zeland's relatively small geographic and population size). The decay rate amongst children in New Zeland is actually HIGHER than the decay rate amongst children in the United States. If you have a therapist model that has been implemented nationwide with "sufficient" governmental subsidation, and it's been in place for 70+ years, and one isn't seeing any net improvement in the overall oral health of the population, then any rationale person would have to question the efficacy of such a plan and whether or not it makes sense to invest the large amounts of time and money to get such a plan rolling in the United States.

The discussion overall isn't really about can a therapist competently perform the procedures that they've been trained to do, the discussion is shifting to does it make fiscal sense to implement such a plan and if so what, if any, effect will it have on the overall oral health of the population. It is becoming the classical situation where as much EMOTIONALLY that some want this to work, the FACTS just aren't backing it up, and fact trump fiction as our scientifically trained brains are taught.
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not to mention the pro mlp camp has never stated how theyre going to have the mlp's practice in areas of need. not one chirp. its like saying hey we are hungry, lets buy some new shoes. cuz it will help. not tellin u why.
 
What is Kelloggs agenda? They're ALL over the mid-level therapist thing. What sister company or financial interest do they have in the dental field?
 
IMHO you had better hope that the dental therapist model doesn't catch on in th US. If it does most recent grads and future grads that do not specialize will be worth about a dime a dozen. One dentist can diagnose and treatment plan for multiple therapists who will be more than happy to make 50 - 100,000
annually working 40 hours weekly. It will probably lead to the end of the Associate position as we now know it. Think about it. Why hire an associate when you can have one or two technicians doing all the treatment you don't want to do, can work independent of your presence (how I would love to take three months of vacation) and are content to make less than the current associate needs or wants. There goes the need for early retirement.
The reason I posted the preceding sentiments is not to be pessimistic but to make you aware of the need to pay attention to whom your representatives are in state government, dental organizations and state dental boards because they are the ones who my decide your future. I have enjoyed my 31 years as a GP and treating three to for generations of families. I hope that same opportunity exists for you.
 
OhioDMD said:
IMHO you had better hope that the dental therapist model doesn't catch on in th US. If it does most recent grads and future grads that do not specialize will be worth about a dime a dozen. One dentist can diagnose and treatment plan for multiple therapists who will be more than happy to make 50 - 100,000
annually working 40 hours weekly. It will probably lead to the end of the Associate position as we now know it. Think about it. Why hire an associate when you can have one or two technicians doing all the treatment you don't want to do, can work independent of your presence (how I would love to take three months of vacation) and are content to make less than the current associate needs or wants. There goes the need for early retirement.
The reason I posted the preceding sentiments is not to be pessimistic but to make you aware of the need to pay attention to whom your representatives are in state government, dental organizations and state dental boards because they are the ones who my decide your future. I have enjoyed my 31 years as a GP and treating three to for generations of families. I hope that same opportunity exists for you.
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Amen to this guy 👍👍. This is exactly what will happen- new grads in newly implemented areas really will be screwed. I'm not being sarcastic or exaggerating either.
 
OhioDMD said:
IMHO you had better hope that the dental therapist model doesn't catch on in th US. If it does most recent grads and future grads that do not specialize will be worth about a dime a dozen. One dentist can diagnose and treatment plan for multiple therapists who will be more than happy to make 50 - 100,000
annually working 40 hours weekly. It will probably lead to the end of the Associate position as we now know it. Think about it. Why hire an associate when you can have one or two technicians doing all the treatment you don't want to do, can work independent of your presence (how I would love to take three months of vacation) and are content to make less than the current associate needs or wants. There goes the need for early retirement.
The reason I posted the preceding sentiments is not to be pessimistic but to make you aware of the need to pay attention to whom your representatives are in state government, dental organizations and state dental boards because they are the ones who my decide your future. I have enjoyed my 31 years as a GP and treating three to for generations of families. I hope that same opportunity exists for you.
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Honestly, it's selfish and cynical for you to be upset by this if in fact dentists are overtrained and overeducated. If a dental therapist can provide equal care that a dentist can, then so be it. It'll be a better standard of living for everyone. I'll pursue a different career.

I mean, when the lightbulb was invented what happened to the candle stick maker? It sucks if you're a dental student, but I mean what can you really do?

IF dental therapists can HONESTLY provide equal care, then dentists are in the wrong - not the DT. The DT isn't making 150k a year btw. The DT is making what a hygienist makes. Maybe what will happen is DT and DH will have to work under a dentist - who will have to spend more time focusing on ortho and perio work. Now that'll suck for the specialized people, but what can you do?

Personally, I've had a lot of dental work done. I know it can be expensive. Fortunately, my parents were able to afford it without much trouble. Most people aren't that lucky.

The wealthy will go to the doctor and dentist. Everyone else the DT and nurse.
 
The price of dentistry will never go down. The profit that would have gone to individual dentists will be siphoned off by CEO'sT his is how it works in pretty much any other industry.

General trend: inferior quality, dissemination/price controls/standardization, oligopoly, work force has no room to breath.

Why does this occur? Crony capitalism.

This isn't a case of going from candles to a light bulb. This is breaking into dentistry via loosening up lic laws that were put in place to protect patients so they can have a ship to run. There is more to dentistry than the technical work - there is also clinical judgement, patient planning, problem solving, etc. Instead we'll have some chop shops who deliver on demand because "the customer is always right". Further, a lot of these programs are SUBSIDIZED by the government.

Not wanting this is neither cynical nor selfish because it's not good progress. If anything it's sheepish not to see this.


Parklife said:
Honestly, it's selfish and cynical for you to be upset by this if in fact dentists are overtrained and overeducated. If a dental therapist can provide equal care that a dentist can, then so be it. It'll be a better standard of living for everyone. I'll pursue a different career.

I mean, when the lightbulb was invented what happened to the candle stick maker? It sucks if you're a dental student, but I mean what can you really do?

IF dental therapists can HONESTLY provide equal care, then dentists are in the wrong - not the DT. The DT isn't making 150k a year btw. The DT is making what a hygienist makes. Maybe what will happen is DT and DH will have to work under a dentist - who will have to spend more time focusing on ortho and perio work. Now that'll suck for the specialized people, but what can you do?

Personally, I've had a lot of dental work done. I know it can be expensive. Fortunately, my parents were able to afford it without much trouble. Most people aren't that lucky.

The wealthy will go to the doctor and dentist. Everyone else the DT and nurse.
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yappy said:
The price of dentistry will never go down. The profit that would have gone to individual dentists will be siphoned off by CEO'sT his is how it works in pretty much any other industry.

General trend: inferior quality, dissemination/price controls/standardization, oligopoly, work force has no room to breath.

Why does this occur? Crony capitalism.

This isn't a case of going from candles to a light bulb. This is breaking into dentistry via loosening up lic laws that were put in place to protect patients so they can have a ship to run. There is more to dentistry than the technical work - there is also clinical judgement, patient planning, problem solving, etc. Instead we'll have some chop shops who deliver on demand because "the customer is always right". Further, a lot of these programs are SUBSIDIZED by the government.

Not wanting this is neither cynical nor selfish because it's not good progress. If anything it's sheepish not to see this.
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dental therapists have been around in other countries for some time. I think that with advances in biomedicine-mouthwash, advances in crown prep, dental equipment, toothpaste, regrown teeth, a growing population with less dentists and more underserved people, etc, it'll be easier to find room for a dental therapists.

I HOPE that dental school is not that niche that some idiot from the street can be picked up and sent to vocational school for 2 years to become a "dentist." I HOPE that dentists are more knowledgeable and more intelligent than that. Automation + more underserved = DT
 
I HOPE that dental school is not that niche that some idiot from the street can be picked up and sent to vocational school for 2 years to become a "dentist." I HOPE that dentists are more knowledgeable and more intelligent than that. Automation + more underserved = DT
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I thought dental school takes 8 years (4 years undergrad and 4 years dental school). In fact that two years is DT training time. Hence, why the dental diagnosis and treatments should be left to dentists who know about the body, not some technical college grad who has learned how to drill in a few months. No offence.
 
Dentist wannabe said:
I thought dental school takes 8 years (4 years undergrad and 4 years dental school). In fact that two years is DT training time. Hence, why the dental diagnosis and treatments should be left to dentists who know about the body, not some technical college grad who has learned how to drill in a few months. No offence.
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I agree, but is that how it'll be? Who's right?
 
Dentist wannabe said:
All I hope is that ADA and CDA are monitoring this and can implement proper advocacy to prevent the loss of associate dentist positions.
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Guys, understand that I'm playing my own con by being a devil's advocate. I want to become a dentist. I don't want to be replaced by mouthwash and therapists.

No one is answering my question - not even dentists. This is why I'm concerned.


I'll ask again.

Are dentists overtrained and overeducated? Can a 2 year educated high school graduate really preform to a dentist's level? PM me if you don't want to post. I understand why saying yes can be unnerving.
 
If you've shadowed a dentist for any length of time you should be able to answer this question.



Parklife said:
Guys, understand that I'm playing my own con by being a devil's advocate. I want to become a dentist. I don't want to be replaced by mouthwash and therapists.

No one is answering my question - not even dentists. This is why I'm concerned.


I'll ask again.

Are dentists overtrained and overeducated? Can a 2 year educated high school graduate really preform to a dentist's level? PM me if you don't want to post. I understand why saying yes can be unnerving.
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Considering after 3 or 4 years of dental school many dentists still feel the need to do a residency to feel fully competnet and to build speed, i do not think dentists are overtrained or overeducated. If anything maybe undertrained and undereducated.
 
Parklife said:
No one is answering my question - not even dentists. This is why I'm concerned.


I'll ask again.

Are dentists overtrained and overeducated? Can a 2 year educated high school graduate really preform to a dentist's level? PM me if you don't want to post. I understand why saying yes can be unnerving.
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I will answer both your questions directly.
Are dentists overtrained or over educated ?
No. Given pts health complexities and the many possible treatment modalities available today most dental school grads should have a solid foundation clinically and didactically to competently treat or refer patients as needed or warranted. CE and practice will hone those skills.

Can a 2 year educated high school grad preform to a dentists level?
Yes mechanically. In Ohio as in other states we have expanded duty function assistants who can place restorations and take impressions. Some as good as or better than dentists that employ them. Realistically most grads generally have two solid years of clinical experience with some minor introduction to patient care the first year and an easing into the clinic the second after graduation and boards they are turned loose on the general public. However, will the technician realize that the 50 year old female patient complaining of jaw pain may be having a heart attack or the young adult with decent hygiene and gingivitis leukemia? No. It doesnt take an eight plus year education to restore,remove or replace a tooth competently but there is a lot more to the practice of dentistry than just competency at clinical skills.
 
yappy said:
If you've shadowed a dentist for any length of time you should be able to answer this question.
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I have about 200 shadowing hours, 60 volunteer hours. I've been across all specialties. I've seen meth mouth, and I've seen work done on a millionaire. What i haven't seen is dental school. What I haven't seen is dental therapy school. What I haven't done is shadowed a dental therapist.

I feel like you're just telling me what you and I want to hear.

OhioDMD said:
I will answer both your questions directly.
Are dentists overtrained or over educated ?
No. Given pts health complexities and the many possible treatment modalities available today most dental school grads should have a solid foundation clinically and didactically to competently treat or refer patients as needed or warranted. CE and practice will hone those skills.

Can a 2 year educated high school grad preform to a dentists level?
Yes mechanically. In Ohio as in other states we have expanded duty function assistants who can place restorations and take impressions. Some as good as or better than dentists that employ them. Realistically most grads generally have two solid years of clinical experience with some minor introduction to patient care the first year and an easing into the clinic the second after graduation and boards they are turned loose on the general public. However, will the technician realize that the 50 year old female patient complaining of jaw pain may be having a heart attack or the young adult with decent hygiene and gingivitis leukemia? No. It doesnt take an eight plus year education to restore,remove or replace a tooth competently but there is a lot more to the practice of dentistry than just competency at clinical skills.
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This is what I was looking for. Now, do you think dental therapists will spread? Or no?


Thanks Ohio. Go bucks!
 
yappy said:
If you've shadowed a dentist for any length of time you should be able to answer this question.
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I put in quite a large number of hours with several dentists. Two said the job was incredibly easy. One of these two said that you no longer had to think after leaving dental school. The only guy who said the job was hard went on and on about the stress of running a practice.

I'm not saying there is anything to fret about, but I wouldn't say we will be as irreplaceable as a medical doctor. I mean, every dental student I've asked said there are quite a few bull crap classes in dental school, and we all know just how many of those 120 undergraduate credit hours were necessary.

My hope is that the increased life-span of teeth in the babyboomer generation will push out enough demand for complex procedures that the average DDS will still be just fine. Albeit, with a slightly more demanding job and more working hours. If not, I guess I'll be kicking myself for not going into medicine.
 
I'm not telling you anything for any other reason other than what I've experienced interacting with dentists and expanded function dental assistants.


Parklife said:
I have about 200 shadowing hours, 60 volunteer hours. I've been across all specialties. I've seen meth mouth, and I've seen work done on a millionaire. What i haven't seen is dental school. What I haven't seen is dental therapy school. What I haven't done is shadowed a dental therapist.

I feel like you're just telling me what you and I want to hear.
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yappy said:
I'm not telling you anything for any other reason other than what I've experienced interacting with dentists and expanded function dental assistants.
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Well. I hope you're right.
 
Parklife said:
Well, we'll all just have to specialize to avoid losing our jobs to monkeys with forceps. :idea:

There is no indication that DT will spread - yet.
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There exists every indication that DTs / DHATs will spread. Their proliferation is right at the gates and organized dentistry is not working hard enough to stop it. Washington state just caved in (ref: link) and many more are on the way throughout the next decade. If you're interested, here is a presentation (ref: presentation) put on by a lobbyist for expansion of dental MLPs and the overall strategy they have in attacking each State's legislature. Look at the states they are targeting with the help of the Kellogg and Pew foundations alongside the trade school lobby - that's certainly more than just Alaska and Minnesota. More and more schools will eventually offer DT / DHAT programs, such as Fort Hayes State University (ref: link).

The ADA has already commissioned studies which conclude that the DH / DHAT is not economically feasible yet these programs will open anyways (ref: link). Graduates of these programs will undoubtedly seek full independence in each state and will start competing for the business against dentists all the while they actively campaign to increase their scope of practice.

Medicine has been hammered by the MLP lobby for a long time and it looks like dentistry's turn is next.
 
Might be a good idea for any of you ADA members to perhaps email/contact the
ada & nicely share any information with us about if we opposed stand a fighting chance?

or what is being done to catch up with the movement/infiltration of DHAT's.
Perhaps they are acting in a defense for the protection of Dentist's interests &
we on the forums just don't know yet?
 
Just wanted to add my perspective. I've been working as a dental assistant and so far I've assisted: 2 orthodontist, an oral surgeon, and 4 general dentists (one of them who is an implant specialist). From my experiences, dentists do way more than just drillings. I've seen dentists put in implants, extractions, do procedures for bone grafts and so much more. I don't think you can learn all these things without a strong foundation in the sciences and experience in both dental schools and clinical. In addition to that I do think there is a trade off with dental therapists and it becomes a question of quality vs quantity.
 
MR1990 said:
There exists every indication that DTs / DHATs will spread. Their proliferation is right at the gates and organized dentistry is not working hard enough to stop it. Washington state just caved in (ref: link) and many more are on the way throughout the next decade. If you're interested, here is a presentation (ref: presentation) put on by a lobbyist for expansion of dental MLPs and the overall strategy they have in attacking each State's legislature. Look at the states they are targeting with the help of the Kellogg and Pew foundations alongside the trade school lobby - that's certainly more than just Alaska and Minnesota. More and more schools will eventually offer DT / DHAT programs, such as Fort Hayes State University (ref: link).

The ADA has already commissioned studies which conclude that the DH / DHAT is not economically feasible yet these programs will open anyways (ref: link). Graduates of these programs will undoubtedly seek full independence in each state and will start competing for the business against dentists all the while they actively campaign to increase their scope of practice.

Medicine has been hammered by the MLP lobby for a long time and it looks like dentistry's turn is next.
Click to expand...

ThatgirlFriday said:
Might be a good idea for any of you ADA members to perhaps email/contact the
ada & nicely share any information with us about if we opposed stand a fighting chance?

or what is being done to catch up with the movement/infiltration of DHAT's.
Perhaps they are acting in a defense for the protection of Dentist's interests &
we on the forums just don't know yet?
Click to expand...

The ADA isn't as much the group that one needs to contact and lobby as it is your own state legislators. These are the people (most of whom AREN'T dentists) that will, or won't pass legislation allowing the creation of some type of midlevel provider(MLP). These are the people, who in face to face, FACTUAL discussions, the dental community needs to explain that the creation of a MLP won't suddenly result in a new pool of dental providers who can render care less expensively than the existing pool of dentists that is already trained, inplace, and able to render care right now. A MLP, in any of the existing models won't be getting reimbursed with lesser fees than a dentist. A MLP, won't be able to purchase equipment and supplies cheapers than a dentist. An MLP won't be any more cost effective than a dentist. An MLP, will require NEW government subsidies to remain in practice and providing care. Legislators need to know that spending the LIMITED pool of healthcare dollars that they have is better served on providing actual care than subsidizing new types of providers at the expense of more of those limited healthcare dollars going not to actual care
 
Demeter said:
Lets take a look at some work done in New Zealand where the mid level provider idea started.

http://pickendawn.blogspot.com/2012/02/murder-house-muh-dah-house-i-dont-wanna.html
Click to expand...



And that doesn't even get into the FACT that the decay rate amongst kids in New Zeland, where dental therapist have been in place for about 90 years, is actually HIGHER than the decay rate for kids in the US. You'd think that after 90 years, if the therapist model worked, that you'd be seeing a decrease in the decay rate given the supposed increase in "access" that the therapist model is designed to do 😕

Is more providers or more education the answer?? Think about it, with smoking and lung cancer, was the push to train more cardio thoracic surgeons and oncologists or to educate the general public??
 
artvandelay786 said:
Agreed. Most of these dental therapists, in future years, will just move to the very same areas of saturation, such as big cities and their suburbs and further increase competition among dentists.

ADA, save us.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%

I've got a little story for you guys from the medicine side of things....

In 2002, in his infinite wisdom, New Mexico governor Bill Richardson decided that rural New Mexico didnt have enough primary care doctors. So he signed a law giving NPs "equal privileges" with MDs -- no supervision, no collaboration, 100% independent practice.

In 2002, there were 32 rural clinics in New Mexico run by doctors and zero run by NPs.

Guess how many there were in 2010? 31 run by physicians and ZERO run by NPs.

However, there are several NP run clinics in places like Santa Fe which already have an excess of doctors.

It turns out that NPs hate rural areas just as much as MDs do -- states pass these sham laws and the only thing it does is lead to increased competition in desirable/urban areas -- the rural areas still go unfilled.
 
Parklife said:
But there was some evaluation done in 2010 that said dental therapists provide equivalent results compared to a dentist.

http://www.wkkf.org/news/Articles/2010/10/Alaska-Dental-Therapist-Program-Study.aspx


So what is it?


Are dentists overtrained and overeducated? Are we just upset because we're going to lose money, prestige, and jobs while paying for longer, harder education? Or is there a genuine concern that therapists are not able to provide treatment needed by the general public? Do we need to skip the science, and just learn what the therapists are learning?

Please care and share. 🙂
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Parklife said:
Guys, understand that I'm playing my own con by being a devil's advocate. I want to become a dentist. I don't want to be replaced by mouthwash and therapists.

No one is answering my question - not even dentists. This is why I'm concerned.


I'll ask again.

Are dentists overtrained and overeducated? Can a 2 year educated high school graduate really preform to a dentist's level? PM me if you don't want to post. I understand why saying yes can be unnerving.
Click to expand...

this topic gets my blood boiling. are dentist overtrained? absolutely not. actually, more and more students are entering residency programs to refine their speed, skills, and knowledge. the days of doing a simple filling as a dentist are over. how can one learn to diagnose a variety of diseases and perform surgical treatment in just 2 years? when a dental therapist, someone with most likely a high school GED, sees a patient... his primary thought process is "does this patient need a filling?". When a dentist sees a patient, you look at their overall health. You look for systemic diseases that might affect the oral cavity and vice versa. Your patients will present you with a wide variety of oral pathological diseases and lesions. You're going to be performing surgical procedures to restore function, relieve pain, improve esthetics. You're going to need to know drug interactions and how to handle special need patients. You're going to come up with personalized treatment plans to help restore current problems and prevent future problems. You're going to be able to know how to handle a patient having a seizure, stroke, or a number of other incidents during an appointment. You'll be interacting and working with other physicians with certain patients. these are just a few of the many things dentists are trained in.

sending these undertrained therapists into hard to access areas isn't going to help treat a patient. trying to put a bandaid on a stab wound shouldn't be the governments solution. it is not economically viable for these therapists run practices in these areas with overhead. it's going to cost the government lots of money to keep these mid level provider practices open. it's not going to solve the access to care problem and it sure as hell isn't going to be what is best for the patient.
 
longhornpride said:
this topic gets my blood boiling. are dentist overtrained? absolutely not.
Click to expand...

Can I ask you why am I learning about ovarian cancer pathology as a dental student or why I need to know the mechanism of action for C. perfringens toxins (super deadly/a dentist would never deal with such a case). Or that the oblique fissure of the lung is delineated by ribs 4,5,6 (from axillary to sternally)? To say we are not overtrained "in some aspects," all i can do is eyeroll to that.

But I do agree that many systemic diseases are complex and it takes much more education than 2 years post high school to learn how to manage and treat such diseases. However, should it take 8 years of education to become a dentist (4 yrs undergrad, 4 years ds)? I don't think so. Damn near everything I learned in undergrad is either waved off or serves no purpose now.
 
SoulPower said:
Can I ask you why am I learning about ovarian cancer pathology as a dental student or why I need to know the mechanism of action for C. perfringens toxins (super deadly/a dentist would never deal with such a case). Or that the oblique fissure of the lung is delineated by ribs 4,5,6 (from axillary to sternally)? To say we are not overtrained "in some aspects," all i can do is eyeroll to that.

But I do agree that many systemic diseases are complex and it takes much more education than 2 years post high school to learn how to manage and treat such diseases. However, should it take 8 years of education to become a dentist (4 yrs undergrad, 4 years ds)? I don't think so. Damn near everything I learned in undergrad is either waved off or serves no purpose now.
Click to expand...

well if you want to use obscure specifics to make a point, i won't argue with you. I feel like the core classes the first year are a good foundation to build on, even if it's packed with useless information from time to time. as far as undergrad, you can say that about any doctorate level profession.

Still my point stands. I don't want a kid that could barely graduate in the top half of his high school surgically operating in my mouth.
 
I agree with your point. But there is quite a bit of wasted time on parts of the body we don't need to see/interact with on any clinical level was my point, and I don't think many people in dental school will say that isn't true.

Fyi, saying that's the way it is, is not a good reason to continue doing something. Fortunately, the boards will be moving more toward a clinically-focused exam in the future, unfortunately I will deal with the present ones.

Anyhow, I don't really see the point of the OPs question.

Of course we're better trained than DTs. I don't know how anyone can argue that. DTs have to work under the supervision of a dentist, as far as I'm aware. Emergency situations is the biggest reason I think DTs will never replace us, drug prescription/use has to come from drug knowledge and understanding; something they do not have. Would they even know to give epi to someone undergoing anaphylactic shock? Do they even know the signs of anaphylactic shock?
Dentistry is not just a drill/fill occupation. Anyone who has shadowed a dentist knows this. There are many skills that need to be developed and knowledge to be gained to effectively treat people of all ages/races.
 
SoulPower said:
I agree with your point. But there is quite a bit of wasted time on parts of the body we don't need to see/interact with on any clinical level was my point, and I don't think many people in dental school will say that isn't true.

Fyi, saying that's the way it is, is not a good reason to continue doing something. Fortunately, the boards will be moving more toward a clinically-focused exam in the future, unfortunately I will deal with the present ones.

Anyhow, I don't really see the point of the OPs question.

Of course we're better trained than DTs. I don't know how anyone can argue that. DTs have to work under the supervision of a dentist, as far as I'm aware. Emergency situations is the biggest reason I think DTs will never replace us, drug prescription/use has to come from drug knowledge and understanding; something they do not have. Would they even know to give epi to someone undergoing anaphylactic shock? Do they even know the signs of anaphylactic shock?
Dentistry is not just a drill/fill occupation. Anyone who has shadowed a dentist knows this. There are many skills that need to be developed and knowledge to be gained to effectively treat people of all ages/races.
Click to expand...

It really is quite simple why we as dentists DO need to learn full body systems and pathology. And for most you'll realize this within a year or 2 of being out in private practice. While we do spend 99.9% of our time working in our patient's mouths, well their mouths ARE (if your patient is still alive atleast 😉 ) attached to the rest of their body. The same place where those forementioned lung, ovarian, etc disease processes occur, and more so than one would expect, you DO get asked about your opinion about other body parts. So you do need to know not just basic full body pharmamcological effects, as well as physiological and pathology processes.

This is a key delineation of a dentist and a therapist. A therapist is basically a technition. A dentist is a doctor. Another key point that when we go out and intereact with our politicians, who might think that they know the *cough* "answer" *cough* to the access "problem" that we must convey. Fact vs. fiction
 
persenmi said:
Being a COMPETENT dentist is more than just placing fillings. Poor oral health is sometimes a sign of a deeper problem elsewhere in the body. A competent dentist should be able to recognize oral health problems in relation to systemic disease and this requires extensive knowledge of anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, pathology, histology and pharmacology. To be competent in these subjects one must first study biology, chemistry, and organic chemistry. Also, competency in these subjects is necessary to read and understand scientific literature pertaining to the efficacy of certain treatments and materials. A competent dentist should always be studying and investigating scientific literature because it's always evolving. Dental therapists will not be as proficient in these tasks as a well trained dentist.

A good analogy is if you keep wearing out the front tires on your car and your mechanic tech (dental therapist) just replaces your tires over and over again because that's all their trained to do whereas a good mechanic (real dentist) will replace your tires and recognize that the alignment is off and fix that too.
Click to expand...

Hey there everyone my name is Jason and i happen to run across this forum and the discussion of dental therapy. I have recently graduated and am now a dental therapist, it looks as though there are a lot of questions regarding dental therapy here and i would like to open myself up as a resource for answering these question. I would first like to say as related to the quote above that you would be surprised at the level of education that is provided to us and our level of competency when it come to assessing systemic disease and pathology related issues.
We have taken all these classes (anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, pathology, histology and pharmacology) And have a good understanding of the importance of continuing education, in order to utilize evidence based dentistry. I can assure you that dental therapists are equally proficient at reading and understanding the literature, we have studied extensively the chemistry behind Biomaterials and the properties pertaining to materials used in dentistry right along side the DDS students. A dental therapist will have no problem recognizing health issues that are a deviation from normal.

Obviously the DDS students do receive more education on topics outside our scope of practice but within our scope we took classes and trained right beside the DDS, dental therapists are equally educated and skilled within the same scope as a DDS is. I can tell you from experience and the time i have spent working in community clinics during my outreach experience along side the DDS students that even though the enabling legislation deems treatment planning and diagnosis outside our scope of practice, that therapists are equally competent in this. Since all students treatment plans and diagnosis are checked by faculty dentists while in school dental therapist generally assess the radiographs, and develop treatment plans for their patients while in school even though this will be the DDS reign outside of school. I can tell you that as a DT I have developed complex treatment plans that included endo, extraction, crown and bridge as well as pross, I have assessed denture abutment sites and formulated plans to retain teeth for these prosthetic devices.

It is not my intention to say any thought on dental therapy here is right or wrong but simply to provide you the correct facts regarding my profession. I would encourage any of you to approach a 4th year DDS student that has worked with a DT and ask their thoughts as the feedback is very positive from students who have experienced our work first hand. As a DT i found that working as a team DDS,DT,Hygiene working together that we have all aided each other at some point during our education. It is not uncommon for a DDS student to ask advice from a DT and vice versa.
By no means do i want this thread to become a debate about the use of DT's being right or wrong, but i am certainly here to answer constructive questions pertaining to dental therapy. Cheers.
 
longhornpride said:
this topic gets my blood boiling. are dentist overtrained? absolutely not. actually, more and more students are entering residency programs to refine their speed, skills, and knowledge. the days of doing a simple filling as a dentist are over. how can one learn to diagnose a variety of diseases and perform surgical treatment in just 2 years? when a dental therapist, someone with most likely a high school GED, sees a patient... his primary thought process is "does this patient need a filling?". When a dentist sees a patient, you look at their overall health. You look for systemic diseases that might affect the oral cavity and vice versa. Your patients will present you with a wide variety of oral pathological diseases and lesions. You're going to be performing surgical procedures to restore function, relieve pain, improve esthetics. You're going to need to know drug interactions and how to handle special need patients. You're going to come up with personalized treatment plans to help restore current problems and prevent future problems. You're going to be able to know how to handle a patient having a seizure, stroke, or a number of other incidents during an appointment. You'll be interacting and working with other physicians with certain patients. these are just a few of the many things dentists are trained in.

sending these undertrained therapists into hard to access areas isn't going to help treat a patient. trying to put a bandaid on a stab wound shouldn't be the governments solution. it is not economically viable for these therapists run practices in these areas with overhead. it's going to cost the government lots of money to keep these mid level provider practices open. it's not going to solve the access to care problem and it sure as hell isn't going to be what is best for the patient.
Click to expand...

I addressed a lot of this in my last post about the therapists ability to treat and assess full body health and our level of education (GED really!?!). But i wanted to say that you seem to have a gross misunderstanding of how a therapist is to be utilized. Under trained? how can you be so sure? Therapist do not run their own practices, the government does not provide any financial investment what so ever in the dental therapy work force ie... not going to cost them a penny! And Actually it is more economically viable if anything, one dentist can manage 4 dental therapist freeing the DDS time to deal with complex issues and increasing the quantity of patients being seen in these rural areas. Having a DT provide care on simple procedures is more cost effective than have a DDS provide the same care. The point of the dt is not only access but rather financial. State insurance plans only reimburse anywhere form 30-40% of what is billed for care, that is why a dentist with 1/2 million $ debt between school and practice setup will not see these patients it is not financially feasible . but a therapist with $100,000 of debt out of school makes less money so if you are only getting 30 cents on the dollar do you want to pay a DDS that makes $100 an hour doing fillings or a therapist that make $40 hour to do the fillings. Seeing how you will not get more money that the government does not have to increase the reimbursement rates for treatment provided as the ADA is pushing for would you rather pay an associate DDS or a DT in your practice for these procedures? which practitioner operates under the most economically feasible pay scale to allow seeing this population?
 
jwdent said:
Considering after 3 or 4 years of dental school many dentists still feel the need to do a residency to feel fully competnet and to build speed, i do not think dentists are overtrained or overeducated. If anything maybe undertrained and undereducated.
Click to expand...

1. I worked in Ohio with 2 EFDAs running in my clinic placing restorations. They are great additions to the dental team for certain types of practices. Not for every practice, but good for certain applications. They did OK dentistry and I can say some of their stuff was better than some dentists I've worked with.

2. I was not satisfied with the entire scope of my education after 2 years of clinical practice as a GP. I went back to school for prosthodontics and where I am now a board-certified prosthodontist. What I have found throughout the process is that the saying "you don't know what you don't know" is absolutely true.

A DT working under the scope of a licensed dentist could be a very good thing. What you will find is that a situation very similar to what I've seen with many recent dental student grads... they want to know "how to do" (a procedure/technique) or "how can I do this faster" (to make more $$) without fully understanding why or how it will impact the patient's health or well-being. A DT working independently... now that's a scary thought. Heck, you can even train a dental assistant to place a dental implant, why should that be out of their scope too? They can take out teeth right? What a laughable matter.

What we are doing is not "filling a tooth" we are "treating the patient". The why is much more important than the how.
 
yappy said:
The price of dentistry will never go down. The profit that would have gone to individual dentists will be siphoned off by CEO'sT his is how it works in pretty much any other industry.

General trend: inferior quality, dissemination/price controls/standardization, oligopoly, work force has no room to breath.

Why does this occur? Crony capitalism.

This isn't a case of going from candles to a light bulb. This is breaking into dentistry via loosening up lic laws that were put in place to protect patients so they can have a ship to run. There is more to dentistry than the technical work - there is also clinical judgement, patient planning, problem solving, etc. Instead we'll have some chop shops who deliver on demand because "the customer is always right". Further, a lot of these programs are SUBSIDIZED by the government.

Not wanting this is neither cynical nor selfish because it's not good progress. If anything it's sheepish not to see this.
Click to expand...

^^ THIS IS VERY INSIGHTFUL (the entire post!).👍

The process you describe above happened full force over the last 2 decades to the profession (in which I am licensed) I'M DESPERATELY LEAVING FOR DENTISTRY 😱.:scared: The ship I've abandoned is on fire, has taken on water and is sinking fast beneath wave after wave of corporate + big government assault.

The reasons I'm desperately swimming away from the sinking ship before it pulls me under are a direct result of what happened to my previous profession via similar threats which presently threaten dentistry in the form of Dental Therapy. My former profession has basically lost all its professional autonomy due to large corporations, i.e. 'oligopolies' inserting themselves at every level. As a result decisions are made at the 'corporate admin' level leaving the average licensed professional without any problem solving capability which ultimately translates into LOW QUALITY LEVELS of service to the public.

I have specifically determined NOT to pick MD or DO because of the inevitable destruction of high quality of care the oligopolies in general health care (the Bremuda Triangle composed of hospital admins, insurance companies, gov bureacrats into which time/money/effort/quality go and to where they end up only they know) are having and will continue to have. Dentistry seems just far enough off their radar for my liking. But, with these money grubbing lawyers, busy-ness people, salesepeople, etc etc ad nasueum: even another planet -lo another galaxy- wouldn't be too far for their reach if they smell a whiff of green.

Perhaps the only relevant long term use of DTs in terms of implementing them effectively so as they do not undermine the highest levels of quality care a real dentist can provide is to implement them in the same fashion as 'physician assistants' are. Something which fortunately, seems to be the status quo even in Alaska according to the article linked in the OP. Even then: some dentists (~40%?) will not resist the temptation to enfranchise such a new 'opportunity', sell their souls and profession out for the quick buck and though the ~40% is not a majority, such an 'enfranchisement opportunity' would quickly give the sell outs enough leverage to destroy the socioeconomic and quality viability of the profession of dentistry within less than 2 decades (such that all recent d school grads who want to do GP will not be able to).

The wholesale destruction of a profession's socioeconomic prospects and ability to provide quality service to the public can and does happen if a profession is not extremely wise and careful.

The trend toward everything of a Wal Mart quality in america is indeed a symptom of just how stupid & morally bankrupt the populace has become (where it stops nobody knows).

If this DT thing becomes widespread, be prepared for "taco bell" level quality of dentistry.👎🙂mad::scared:
 
Last edited:
dentalt24 said:
Hey there everyone my name is Jason and i happen to run across this forum and the discussion of dental therapy. I have recently graduated and am now a dental therapist, it looks as though there are a lot of questions regarding dental therapy here and i would like to open myself up as a resource for answering these question. I would first like to say as related to the quote above that you would be surprised at the level of education that is provided to us and our level of competency when it come to assessing systemic disease and pathology related issues.
We have taken all these classes (anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, pathology, histology and pharmacology) And have a good understanding of the importance of continuing education, in order to utilize evidence based dentistry. I can assure you that dental therapists are equally proficient at reading and understanding the literature Ok. First question, you are still just (not trying to be condescending) a high school grad with some portion of your dental therapy classes under your belt, right? A few of the dental students I have met have had trouble interpreting the scientific literature (in a relative sense - compared to other dental students). However, it is hard to imagine a college age kid with a few (two? three?) years of experience beyond high school being able to understand scientific literature and it's use as well as a doctor with 8 years of guided experience handling such literature. It is not hard however, to imagine such a student thinking he is as proficient as doctor because he has had some exposure. A little knowledge can be dangerous. So after all that jazz, I guess what I'm asking is how many years of schooling will you have beyond high school? Also, which dental therapist model are you coming from? , we have studied extensively the chemistry behind Biomaterials and the properties pertaining to materials used in dentistry right along side the DDS students. A dental therapist will have no problem recognizing health issues that are a deviation from normal. What is this assertion based on? The fact you take some of the same classes a dentist will? Or is there more to this statement?

Obviously the DDS students do receive more education on topics outside our scope of practice but within our scope we took classes and trained right beside the DDS, dental therapists are equally educated and skilled within the same scope as a DDS is. I can tell you from experience and the time i have spent working in community clinics during my outreach experience along side the DDS students that even though the enabling legislation deems treatment planning and diagnosis outside our scope of practice, that therapists are equally competent in this.This statement is the reason I bothered to comment. I don't really care to have you elaborate on this, but instead I would like you to really sit and think about it. You have now either stated that a dental therapist's medical and diagnostic training is equal to that of a dentist, or that such training is irrelevant. To everyone else: This is probably the type of subtle theme we will see in the coming years. I never get nervous about silly things like regrowing teeth and such, but this could be a problem. Most people I talk to don't seem to know that becoming a dentist requires 8 years. I think the public will be very receptive to anyone who suggests dentists are over-trained, and are holding back the "equally competent" dental therapists by controlling the "enabling legislation". Since all students treatment plans and diagnosis are checked by faculty dentists while in school dental therapist generally assess the radiographs, and develop treatment plans for their patients while in school even though this will be the DDS reign outside of school. I can tell you that as a DT I have developed complex treatment plans that included endo, extraction, crown and bridge as well as pross, I have assessed denture abutment sites and formulated plans to retain teeth for these prosthetic devices.

It is not my intention to say any thought on dental therapy here is right or wrong but simply to provide you the correct facts regarding my profession. I would encourage any of you to approach a 4th year DDS student that has worked with a DT and ask their thoughts as the feedback is very positive from students who have experienced our work first hand. As a DT i found that working as a team DDS,DT,Hygiene working together that we have all aided each other at some point during our education. It is not uncommon for a DDS student to ask advice from a DT and vice versa.
By no means do i want this thread to become a debate about the use of DT's being right or wrong, but i am certainly here to answer constructive questions pertaining to dental therapy. Cheers.
Click to expand...

Alright, I kind of gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were legitimately in a dental therapy program. Looking back over this really quickly, I get an aggressive vibe from my inserted text. That was not the intention.
 
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