0 interviews, need advice!

[geese]

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Credentials:

Canadian Citizen
2011 Caribbean Graduate
ECFMG certified
step1: 92/222
step 2 ck: 90/212
step 2 cs: pass
step 3: 78/203
USCE

applied to 220 IM programs on sept.1st, then applied to 100 family med programs as "back-up" in late october since i had 0 IM interviews after 2 months. Got 0 Family med interviews too.

I dont know what happened, did I miss something? I went through my app numerous times but I just cant understand why I didnt get a single interview. Step 3 was done in october and submitted later.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[Top Gun]

Credentials:

Canadian Citizen
2011 Caribbean Graduate
ECFMG certified
step1: 92/222
step 2 ck: 90/212
step 2 cs: pass
step 3: 78/203
USCE

applied to 220 IM programs on sept.1st, then applied to 100 family med programs as "back-up" in late october since i had 0 IM interviews after 2 months. Got 0 Family med interviews too.

I dont know what happened, did I miss something? I went through my app numerous times but I just cant understand why I didnt get a single interview. Step 3 was done in october and submitted later.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

What about your LOR's? Any problems with them? How about with the dean's letter? With your stats, and the number of programs you applied to, you should have at least had some interviews by now.

 

[geese]

What about your LOR's? Any problems with them? How about with the dean's letter? With your stats, and the number of programs you applied to, you should have at least had some interviews by now.

I got LOR's from rotations were I felt I excelled in the most and were the attendings really got to know me as a person, so I don't think that was the problem. I never saw the dean's letter, my school just sends it to eras directly, saw my transcript though. I called a few programs that I got no responses from and 1 program director told me that I didn't list my clinical rotations under "work experience' on the myeras app, so they assume that I had no USCE. After he said that my app looked fine except that it doesn't state on my transcript the location of my rotations so they think that i don't have any USCE. But I always thought that work experience if for jobs only and not for listing clinical rotations?

 

[Killer T Cell]

I got LOR's from rotations were I felt I excelled in the most and were the attendings really got to know me as a person, so I don't think that was the problem. I never saw the dean's letter, my school just sends it to eras directly, saw my transcript though. I called a few programs that I got no responses from and 1 program director told me that I didn't list my clinical rotations under "work experience' on the myeras app, so they assume that I had no USCE. After he said that my app looked fine except that it doesn't state on my transcript the location of my rotations so they think that i don't have any USCE. But I always thought that work experience if for jobs only and not for listing clinical rotations?

I'm so sorry to hear that Geese, but I think the PD you talked to was right. You were supposed to put your US Clinical Rotations under work experience, and I'm guessing most programs assumed you had no USCE. But even then, I know people from India, Pakistan etc. who are getting a few interviews with absolutely no USCE. Assuming you didn't have any disciplinary issues or failures during medical school, I am really surprised you didn't get any interviews. Did you apply to a lot of safety programs, especially community hospitals in NY and NJ?

I would contact your medical school and explain the situation to them. Ask them nicely if there's any way you can see your MSPE. It's still not over, interviews are slowly trickling in as people cancel them. Hope something works out for you.

 

[geese]

I'm so sorry to hear that Geese, but I think the PD you talked to was right. You were supposed to put your US Clinical Rotations under work experience, and I'm guessing most programs assumed you had no USCE. But even then, I know people from India, Pakistan etc. who are getting a few interviews with absolutely no USCE. Assuming you didn't have any disciplinary issues or failures during medical school, I am really surprised you didn't get any interviews. Did you apply to a lot of safety programs, especially community hospitals in NY and NJ?

I would contact your medical school and explain the situation to them. Ask them nicely if there's any way you can see your MSPE. It's still not over, interviews are slowly trickling in as people cancel them. Hope something works out for you.

I was really surprised too, because I passed all my boards on 1st attempts, 0 disciplinary action, 0 failures in med school. All in all I had a clean record, I even received the valedictorian award and perfect attendance awards from med school, and did well on my rotations. So that's why it's really hard for me to swallow that I still got 0 interviews.

Just sitting at home and watching the months pass by with 0 IV's was very painful emotionally. I just don't know what to do now? Do I have any chance at the scramble? or should I just start doing clinical research and "improve" my cv for next years match?

 

[Sarcoidosis]

Your situation is quiet surprising.

No matter how much of a problem you have with your application with the number of programs and the specialty to which you applied you should be getting interviews. Your boards scores are more than enough to get you some interviews.

I would recommend writing your MCCEE if you haven't done it yet, and doing well on it...

Canada is extremely receptive to Canadian IMG's, don't be under the misconception as I was. Prepare for the Second iteration of the CARMS now and you have a very good chance of matching in Canada, which will save a lot of headache with the Visa issue in the future. Writing from experience.

 

[geese]

Your situation is quiet surprising.

No matter how much of a problem you have with your application with the number of programs and the specialty to which you applied you should be getting interviews. Your boards scores are more than enough to get you some interviews.

I would recommend writing your MCCEE if you haven't done it yet, and doing well on it...

Canada is extremely receptive to Canadian IMG's, don't be under the misconception as I was. Prepare for the Second iteration of the CARMS now and you have a very good chance of matching in Canada, which will save a lot of headache with the Visa issue in the future. Writing from experience.

Actually Canada is my # 1 choice to be honest with you, since I'm born and raised here and also for the visa issues as you mentioned. I applied to Carms 1st iteration, didnt get any IV's, applied to both family med, and internal med.

My Scores for Canadian Examinations are:

MCCEE: 322
MCCQE1: 448

Can you give me some tips and advice on the 2nd iteration? I was considering that as an option since I didn't get any IV's from the 1st iteration.

Thanks

 

[danzman]

Something really seems strange about this. Are you sure that you submitted your eras stuff correctly? I would try to get in touch with a few of the programs you are interested in and directly ask them about your individual application. Seems like you must have just missed some procedural aspect about it or something.

Good luck

 

[Law2Doc]

Credentials:

Canadian Citizen
2011 Caribbean Graduate
ECFMG certified
step1: 92/222
step 2 ck: 90/212
step 2 cs: pass
step 3: 78/203
USCE

applied to 220 IM programs on sept.1st, then applied to 100 family med programs as "back-up" in late october since i had 0 IM interviews after 2 months. Got 0 Family med interviews too.

I dont know what happened, did I miss something? I went through my app numerous times but I just cant understand why I didnt get a single interview. Step 3 was done in october and submitted later.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

It's hard to "diagnose" the issue because we are not seeing what the PDs are seeing. Did your selection of programs contain mostly realistic places (I'm writing off the family med places due to your applying to them later, BTW), were any of your LORs less flattering than you think, was your personal statement simply poorly designed to market yourself, or did the deans letter not help you much. Its possible that it was unclear whether you demonstrated adequate US rotation experience to places unfamiliar with your program. Or maybe, as was suggested above, you flubbed the ERAS stuff somehow. Point is you wont know why you didnt get in unless you can ask someone who saw everything, at some ater date. Not all Caribbean schools get much look in the match, I don't know if you told us which one you are coming from, so if it's not one of the big 1-3, that might matter too. And a lot of paces dont want to deal with the visa issues of non US folks. With an increase in US seniors, the odds are simply worse for you this year than in prior years. May mean you will be lining up your job in the scramble. Not time to panic yet.

 

[BADMD]

Do you need a visa? That can make it one step more difficult.

Your school also makes a big difference. SGU, Saba? Better. Ross? ok. AUC and the others? Not so good. Have you verified your school in on California's acceptable list? It is isn't, zero interviews is to be expected.

 

[Sarcoidosis]

Your Canadian Scores are... great as well...
more than enough to get you interviews any way...

You have a lot going for you... (~relatively speaking)

Good scores...
Canadian origin...
Caribbean school...
USCE...
Close Graduation Date...
Large volume of applications...
Specialty applications to programs of need...

At this point... I am sorry that you don't have any interviews....
I don't think this is the norm though... I am not sure there is anything more that I can suggest other than what others are recommending which is start calling programs directly to find the reason.

 

[Buzz Me]

Did you apply to a variety of program tiers (top tier/reach, middle tier, lower tier)?

 

[sinnamon]

it really is unusual for someone with your stats to not get at least 1 interview. several of my classmates with way lower scores than you have received interviews. perhaps your LORs maybe the problem or personal statement may be weak? as for family medicine, you applied late in the season, and i'm sure programs know when applicants apply as a backup when it's so late.

you should definitely work on your application for 2nd iteration, as your EE score is pretty low. ontario's cut off this year for family medicine is around 95 percentile for IMGs... ask your school's admin to review your application, maybe they can highlight any weaknesses. good luck!

 

[adagio]

Actually Canada is my # 1 choice to be honest with you, since I'm born and raised here and also for the visa issues as you mentioned. I applied to Carms 1st iteration, didnt get any IV's, applied to both family med, and internal med.

My Scores for Canadian Examinations are:

MCCEE: 322
MCCQE1: 448

Can you give me some tips and advice on the 2nd iteration? I was considering that as an option since I didn't get any IV's from the 1st iteration.

Thanks

I scored 389 on MCCEE and 613 on QE1, and I tell you, If you are not a Canadian grad, no matter how much you score, its going to be uber-difficult to get into a Can. Residency program.

US market is much bigger, and thus easier to get into.

Looking at your profile, i am almost 100% certain there was a major major major flaw in your application/letters/personal statement/Dean letter (/ = and/or)

Someone with your creds should be flying with no problems.

Copy and paste your full ERAS application here (after effacing personal info), I cannot believe that someone with this profile did not get any interviews ... 220 programs ... Your personal statement must at least have =>1 swear words to have 0 IVs, and even if that was the case, you would still get IVs from programs who read the PS AFTER sending the IV.

 

[geese]

Hey guys, thanks for your suggestions and reply's.

I have found out the reason that I have not received any interviews. I have heard back from 2 program directors, one which I called personally and another that gave me a very thorough answer via message.

It turns out that there was a major flaw with my application. I left the "experience" part of my application completely blank.

When I was filling out the myeras application the only headings it had was "Work Experience". I assumed that meant work as in "jobs" that are outside of medical school. I dont really have any job experience except for working as a computer technician in the past. I don't have any research experience. But I do have lot's of volunteer experiences, but again I was under the assumption that it was for job experiences only since the heading in the application said "Work Experience".

The reason I thought this was because if you look at the CARMS application which I also had applied for. It clearly has headings for research, volunteer, and work experience all separated. So for that application I was able to complete it thoroughly.

Well this is 1 big mistake that probably cost me a residency spot this year. I can't go back and change anything because it is too late. I will have to try my chances at the SOAP scramble and if not then I will have to learn from this mistake and apply again this fall. If that happens then I will have to try to get a research position, observership, more volunteer work etc. so that I can improve my CV.

 

[splik]

When I was filling out the myeras application the only headings it had was "Work Experience".

This is not true - ERAS has a section for 'experience' and when you enter your experience you can select whether it is 'work experience', 'research experience' or 'volunteer experiences'. For future reference you should never leave a section of your application blank unless there really is nothing at all.

As far as I'm aware you cannot change your CAF once submitted and this is what you will be submitting in the SOAP so it is possible that you may have the same difficulties.

 

[adagio]

ERAS has its share to blame here

Why on earth dont they further divide that into: Work - Electives - Obsies - Research?

Sloth .. Thats the reason ... Sloth

 

[gutonc]

ERAS has its share to blame here

Why on earth dont they further divide that into: Work - Electives - Obsies - Research?

Sloth .. Thats the reason ... Sloth

No. It's because they don't (have to) bend over backwards to make things easier on IMGs.

Does it suck that your USCE isn't listed on your transcript and you have to come up with some other way to explain it? Sorta.

Is it ERAS/NRMPs problem? Nope.

 

[adagio]

No. It's because they don't (have to) bend over backwards to make things easier on IMGs.

Does it suck that your USCE isn't listed on your transcript and you have to come up with some other way to explain it? Sorta.

Is it ERAS/NRMPs problem? Nope.

its not about making things easier. its about organizing stuff well.

Programs recognize that FMGs (by virtue of being FMGs) have different USCE experiences, and they categorize that experience according to what they deem as important (Sub-is, Electives, Observerships, Externships)

In a pool where people are applying (AMGs and FMGs alike) efforts must be taken to make things convenient for both parties.

By the same token, we should not have interpreters in hospitals to (bend over backwards to make things easier on non-english speaking people).

 

[sinnamon]

also, it would help if the OP read all the instructions on ERAS prior to filling out his/her application. exploring the drop down menus on 'work experience' would've solved his problems.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
By the same token, we should not have interpreters in hospitals to (bend over backwards to make things easier on non-english speaking people).

well, in all fairness, the patients that actually want good care tend to show up to the hospital with their own English speaking family member and don't rely on a hospital provided one. Much as the IMG who actually cares about getting his application correct is going to go the extra mile to make sure things are correct.

 

[adagio]

well, in all fairness, the patients that actually want good care tend to show up to the hospital with their own English speaking family member and don't rely on a hospital provided one. Much as the IMG who actually cares about getting his application correct is going to go the extra mile to make sure things are correct.

I agree and disagree at the same time. Its a very complicated issue (the interpreters thing, and its implications, philosophical and sociological). I do not have a fully formed, balanced, and mature opinion about this matter as of yet.

As for the ERAS thing, it was poorly constructed, and I had to google for hours and look up stuff on forums to know what was the census on its format (obviously I looked at their website first, but it did not address many of my questions, and I had to resort to forums).

With all the money ERAS is charging, one would expect them to do a better job.

 

[wannabeOBGYN]

I agree and disagree at the same time. Its a very complicated issue (the interpreters thing, and its implications, philosophical and sociological). I do not have a fully formed, balanced, and mature opinion about this matter as of yet.

As for the ERAS thing, it was poorly constructed, and I had to google for hours and look up stuff on forums to know what was the census on its format (obviously I looked at their website first, but it did not address many of my questions, and I had to resort to forums).

With all the money ERAS is charging, one would expect them to do a better job.

Why not email/call the ERAS people? I saw the same kinds of posts about AMCAS/AACOMAS back when I was applying to med school and I never understand why nobody seems to think to contact the people who MAKE the site.

 

[adagio]

Why not email/call the ERAS people? I saw the same kinds of posts about AMCAS/AACOMAS back when I was applying to med school and I never understand why nobody seems to think to contact the people who MAKE the site.

Because this is not the way things should be done.

eServices are created to get rid of all the calling/snail mailing thing.

p.s. I ended up calling them btw 😀

 

[Buzz Me]

As for the ERAS thing, it was poorly constructed, and I had to google for hours and look up stuff on forums to know what was the census on its format (obviously I looked at their website first, but it did not address many of my questions, and I had to resort to forums).

There wasn't anyone (advisor, faculty, resident, fellow student/applicant) that you could ask?

 

[adagio]

There wasn't anyone (advisor, faculty, resident, fellow student/applicant) that you could ask?

There was. But this is beside the point.

The amount of money ERAS generates is mind boggling. It wont hurt them to work on ameliorating their site.

Look, its boiling down here to these arguments:


1- ERAS should do something about the ambiguity

2- ERAS do not have to do anything about anything because the IMG must sweat blood to get into a US residency (including deciphering ambiguous volumes of lore).

3- ERAS dont have to do something about anything because one can always see what the masses are doing, and follow the masses doing.

4- There is nothing ambiguous about ERAS website


My criticism is not meant to be merely lamenting and wailing ; my criticism is geared to be constructive.

I already sent an email to them last year with my practical suggestions, and a new hypothetical module, but never heard anything back.

 

[nacho libre]

well, in all fairness, the patients that actually want good care tend to show up to the hospital with their own English speaking family member and don't rely on a hospital provided one. Much as the IMG who actually cares about getting his application correct is going to go the extra mile to make sure things are correct.

So does a non-English speaking patient not "actually want good care" if they don't have (can't have) an English speaking family member with them 24/7 in during a week long hospitalization? In all fairness.

 

[Socrates25]

I agree with you about ERAS -- they generate millions of dollars per year in revenues that are used for other operations that have nothing to do with residency matches.

Its the same thing with board exams -- the outrageous fees they charge are siphoned off into other operations that have nothign to do with generating/administering the test.

 

[adagio]

I agree with you about ERAS -- they generate millions of dollars per year in revenues that are used for other operations that have nothing to do with residency matches.

Its the same thing with board exams -- the outrageous fees they charge are siphoned off into other operations that have nothign to do with generating/administering the test.

👍

 

[DocKSV]

I'm not sure you didn't get any IVs because you didn't list your USCE under work experience. I didn't do that and (i'm not rubbing this in, I promise), but I got 9 university invites and 2 community invites for IM. I'm a Carib grad as well and granted my stats a little better, but yours are definitely good enough to warrant invites from both IM and FM programs. No one ever mentioned to me that I should have listed it, but who knows, maybe it did keep me from being interviewed by some programs.

I get the feeling we are missing a piece of the puzzle.

 

[Law2Doc]

So does a non-English speaking patient not "actually want good care" if they don't have (can't have) an English speaking family member with them 24/7 in during a week long hospitalization? In all fairness.

I'm not saying 24/7, I'm saying within reason. Certainly on initial presentation and on the day of major procedures. if something matters to you you take reasonable steps to make sure it's done right. You don't leave it to the healthcare system to provide something that's "good enough" given the current availabilities and budget restrictions, when you have better options available to you. I've worked with patients through interpreters and through family members, and there's no comparison, the latter is the better approach where available for all parties involved. But I think you are hung up on a tangent here, the point was that an IMG needs to go that extra mile to make sure things are done right, since they have less school help. It wasn't me who made analogy to interpreters, it was adagio.

 

[Buzz Me]

Having lived abroad, I can tell you that anytime I've gone with a family member to the hospital, you can be damn sure I'll also bring someone that can translate for us. I would never assume that the staff could speak English or could provide an interpreter on a moment's notice.

 

[koc123]

Having lived abroad, I can tell you that anytime I've gone with a family member to the hospital, you can be damn sure I'll also bring someone that can translate for us. I would never assume that the staff could speak English or could provide an interpreter on a moment's notice.

"Title six of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 stipulates that federal institutions must offer language assistance to persons with limited language proficiency, and that no person shall be subjected to discrimination on the basis of race, color, or national origin."

source:http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=ecc16d241593d185d1c62f2c9e663820

Also, as obgyn, sometimes, I have found that it is highly inappropriate for a family member to act as an interpreter. The other day, I had a Korean mother who brought in her 15 year old daughter for the complaints of vulvar pruritis. Really?

Think of elder and spousal abuses cases. You can't rely on family members as interpreters.

In the US, I would venture to say most hospitals have some sort of interpreter's service-either voluntary hospital staff, professional interpreters, or language phone line. I think doctors/staffs are too lazy not to use them. I personally have used the language line and have found it extremely helpful and not time consuming.

 

[Buzz Me]

Agreed that interpretive services can be very helpful. But every now and then we run into very exotic languages for which we have no available interpreter (either in person or via phone), then it gets very difficult.

Are hospitals considered federal institutions?

 

[adagio]

Agreed that interpretive services can be very helpful. But every now and then we run into very exotic languages for which we have no available interpreter (either in person or via phone), then it gets very difficult.

Are hospitals considered federal institutions?

humane institutions, and thus necessitating a more stringent set of codes 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

humane institutions, and thus necessitating a more stringent set of codes 🙂

Um no. Actually these are institutions fraught with higher risk and danger for those that don't speak the language, and availability of interpretive services notwithstanding, youd be a fool to try to rely on them because the federal law says they have to provide some reasonable minimum. We aren't talking about the OBGYN setting above as much as the situation where somebody with a serious condition and perhaps a history of drug reactions and allergies shows up without any medical records. Youd be foolish to risk this. Much like you'd be a fool to rely on someone else to make sure your ERAS and rank list were kosher.

 

[bizurk]

For what it's worth, my wife and I did not list our clinical experience in the 'work' section of ERAS. We're both US citizens from Ross (well, she's still a green card holder for now). We have middling stats for EM/Surg (me) and anesthesia/prelim IM (her). We had a solid number of interviews (20+)

This is all to say, I believe an understated issue harming the OP is Canadian citizenship. Many programs want nothing to do with visa issues....... Nevertheless, USCE issue and visa issue should not have shut you completely out.

Anyway, I feel for you dude/dudette, this game is hard enough with options. There are many unfilled programs every year, and if you're geographically flexible you stand a great chance of making a program (and yourself) happy in the SOAP