09-10 MSTP Question Thread

[InNotOf]

Also, Duke's secondary is ridiculous.

Agree. For the MSTP goals/objectives/plans essay, would it be a mistake to include text from my AMCAS MD/PhD essay, or must we reinvent the wheel here?

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[muchomaas]

So based off what has been said above, am I to take it as a bad idea to apply for MD/PhD in neuro if all of my research has been mol bio cancer? I was pretty much a cog sci major in college, so it's not totally out of the blue, and I don't feel comfortable fabricating my intentions on the md/phd essays.

Related: how much should we specify about our research interest in the md/phd essay? Like should I just give a few reasons for being interest in neuro generally, or should I say something like I want to work on such and such aspect of such and such disease? It seems a little premature to know exactly what my opportunities/intentions will be by the time I actually have to choose a PhD topic. Is this unreasonable?

thanks.

 

[GliaGirl]

I don't see why you should apply outside of your interests. Neuroscience PhD programs take people who majored in other things in undergrad ALL THE TIME. There is no reason to think this would be different. For most programs (all of the ones that I can think of at least), you don't have to pick a department until it's time to do your PhD. What you indicate as your preference on your application will just give them an indication of who to schedule your interviews with. Just put down what you are interested in studying. You'll easily be able to get into a neuroscience program with a solid bio research background. You have the lab skills and experience, and most biomedical research is the same thing anyway, just with different titles and slight variations in focus. My former PI got into a neuroscience MD/PhD program after majoring in and researching physics for undergrad. ESPECIALLY if you majored in cog sci. You're fine.

You don't have to pick what disease model and protein you want to study, but it will help show your focus if you can be mildly specific. Like are you interested in the neurological disorders of aging? Stroke? Neurodegeneration? Mental ******ation and autism? Pediatric neurological conditions? All of the above? Some sort of combination? Don't feel like you need to be specific about what you want to do exactly, but make sure they know WHY you think this stuff is interesting. And if you're interested in one thing now and change your mind before you get your PhD, you'll be joining a very well populated club.

 

[andafoo]

Anybody else tried to submit their MSTP secondary to Pitt, but the website's crapping out?
"An error occurred on the server when processing the URL. If you are the owner of this site please contact the iTarget Helpdesk."

That's frustrating. Almost as frustrating as Columbia's essay box where I couldn't paste in text, only write in it directly.

Also, Duke's secondary is ridiculous.

Make sure your degree info is less than 31 characters long and unselect all the faculty choices you had before they changed the selections.

That may help.

 

[muchomaas]

Thanks for the advice GliaGirl.

 

[alacast]

Make sure your degree info is less than 31 characters long and unselect all the faculty choices you had before they changed the selections.

That may help.

Thanks! It was the character limit, which of course they don't show. Also, saying "30 characters or less" is more easily correctly interpreted, meaning I don't weedle down the list to 31 characters, then wonder why it's still not working. I guess medical folks aren't technical writers.

 

[computerdorkdan]

This is a great thread, thanks for everyone who's helping and posting questions.

I'm about to finish up a first author paper. I haven't submitted my application yet so I'm wondering if I should wait to actually submit the paper so I can list it as "submitted" or if I should go ahead and submit my app for verification and just send a note to each of the schools that I'm applying to later pointing out that my paper got published.

I'm pretty confident that I can submit the paper by the 31st of July, but I don't know if I want to wait that long as the verification process can take time.

 

[muchomaas]

Is anyone here applying to both MD and MD/PhD programs, or is this generally considered a bad idea? One reason I want to do this is because I won't get my mcat score until the 21st, and my school takes 3-4 weeks to send out the committee letter once I tell them which schools. So I wanted to give them a list of schools tomorrow, and was thinking making some of them just MD, in case my mcat is a little low to bank on MD/PhD.

 

[Ariodant]

Are your LORs mostly MD/PhD oriented? People say MD/PhD programs will doubt your committment if they find out your applied elsewhere MD only, but I didn't get such impressions when I was applying. Instead I was asked frequently at my MD-only interviews why I didn't apply MD/PhD there.

 

[tiamat360]

so tiamat, if you were at an interview and an interviewer asked you where else you've been you would tell them nothing? I was asked that question at most if not all of my interviews and answered truthfully...it seems to be a pretty similar situation as to seeing the list of schools on an amcas application. Maybe not though because it is further along in the process

1. In an interview, you can mention one or two other schools you've interviewed at. You're under no obligation to list every other school you've applied to.

2. In an interview, you can spin it so the interviewer knows you're specifically interested in that school, even if you have looked elsewhere. No way to do that from a print-out of your primary.

 

[URHere]

1. In an interview, you can mention one or two other schools you've interviewed at. You're under no obligation to list every other school you've applied to.

2. In an interview, you can spin it so the interviewer knows you're specifically interested in that school, even if you have looked elsewhere. No way to do that from a print-out of your primary.

I agree with this. Personally, my favorite way to field the "where else have you applied" question went something like this:

"Well, I've applied to schools mostly in such-and-such area. I applied to X because it was close to family, to Y because I have done research there in the past, and I applied to your school because <insert list of reasons why you love the school here>.

It was a great way to make sure I had time to discuss what I loved about each specific school.

 

[reine1jb]

1. In an interview, you can mention one or two other schools you've interviewed at. You're under no obligation to list every other school you've applied to.

2. In an interview, you can spin it so the interviewer knows you're specifically interested in that school, even if you have looked elsewhere. No way to do that from a print-out of your primary.

yeah i understand you're saying...Truthfully, I only had 4 interviews so I guess when I was saying that I interviewed at 3 other schools, it is not as big of a deal as having the school know all the schools I applied too. But I did apply to UIC and I can't imagine that it was my list of schools that kept me from getting an interview there..who knows I guess

 

[reine1jb]

This is a great thread, thanks for everyone who's helping and posting questions.

I'm about to finish up a first author paper. I haven't submitted my application yet so I'm wondering if I should wait to actually submit the paper so I can list it as "submitted" or if I should go ahead and submit my app for verification and just send a note to each of the schools that I'm applying to later pointing out that my paper got published.

I'm pretty confident that I can submit the paper by the 31st of July, but I don't know if I want to wait that long as the verification process can take time.

I would go ahead and submit your application., You can always send a note later. I wouldn't wait to submit your primary...If you're writing a first author paper, you have the research experience (mostly likely) so by the time you submit, have it verified, and get the secondaries, you should be able to attach the manuscript or whatever...

 

[GliaGirl]

I'm pretty confident that I can submit the paper by the 31st of July, but I don't know if I want to wait that long as the verification process can take time.

Yep, submit your app now and send along your paper later. From the sounds of it your paper will be published before most schools even take a look at your application anyway, so don't delay.

Is anyone here applying to both MD and MD/PhD programs, or is this generally considered a bad idea? One reason I want to do this is because I won't get my mcat score until the 21st, and my school takes 3-4 weeks to send out the committee letter once I tell them which schools. So I wanted to give them a list of schools tomorrow, and was thinking making some of them just MD, in case my mcat is a little low to bank on MD/PhD.

The 21st of this month? I'd say its better to wait the week or so until then to make the decision. If its the 21st of next month, then that's a different story. Realize that many schools will consider you for MD programs if you don't get in their MD/PhD, so if you are worried just apply to a lot of those schools. That way you'll have the back up plan without having to answer questions about your focus or whatever.

My opinion is that if you want MD/PhD you should just go for it. The hardest part of the application process for me was admitting to myself that I wanted MD/PhD more than anything else. It was scary to try for something with bad odds, but once I opened myself up to the possibility of failure and accepted the consequences of taking the risk, I fought all the more hard to get what I wanted and it totally paid off. I think you need that kind of passion to succeed, because from everything I've heard it gets really hard to maintain that drive over the whole course of the program, so if you don't get yourself fired up now, it'll only be harder to stick with it later.

 

[computerdorkdan]

Yep, submit your app now and send along your paper later. From the sounds of it your paper will be published before most schools even take a look at your application anyway, so don't delay.

So, should I list the paper in the work-activities section or just put it in the research essay?

 

[computerdorkdan]

Also, in the work-activities section, is it ok to say "discussed in more detail in my research essay" when talking about lab experiences?

 

[computerdorkdan]

Meh, one more question...

I'm going to give a poster presentation in Oct...do I include that in work-activities? I can't pre-date the activity, so I'm just going to have it be the month it got accepted. Think that's kosher?

 

[CielloStelatto]

sfn?

 

[xcrunner01]

Meh, one more question...

I'm going to give a poster presentation in Oct...do I include that in work-activities? I can't pre-date the activity, so I'm just going to have it be the month it got accepted. Think that's kosher?

Yeah, that should be fine.

 

[CielloStelatto]

anyone applying to loyola? I don't want to mess up their application, and their process description on their website is a bit odd. I don't know if it's necessary to fill out the phd application part now, or if that can wait... I guess I'll just do it this weekend to be safe.

 

[xcrunner01]

anyone applying to loyola? I don't want to mess up their application, and their process description on their website is a bit odd. I don't know if it's necessary to fill out the phd application part now, or if that can wait... I guess I'll just do it this weekend to be safe.

Has loyola contacted you already? I am also applying there but I haven't gotten anything yet. I think they screen pre-secondary?

 

[CielloStelatto]

no they haven't. i was just looking at their website, reading through their application process and opened the application for the phd part. i mean, it's up and running, but I don't know if they need both applications before they look at your file as md/phd, or if you just need to apply to phd separatel later on (by march, or whatever it said).

 

[xcrunner01]

Hmm, well it seems as though you can go ahead and submit the graduate program application if you want. However, I'm going to wait until I receive an invite to complete the secondary since odds are the MD/PhD program won't look at the graduate application until then anyways. I think Loyola sends out applications a bit later in the summer, usually around early August, so you are still very early.

 

[xcrunner01]

Has anyone received an email from Vanderbilt about a secondary? I got an email from the MD/PhD office a few days ago saying "You will receive an invitation shortly to complete our secondary application". Woohoo, I guess I made the first cut?

However, I haven't heard anything since then and haven't gotten the secondary yet. Anyone else in the same situation?

P.S. I love Vanderbilt and almost danced for joy when I saw an email about a secondary from them since I know the MD-only applicants who get secondaries automatically get interview invites. Then I learned the MSTP doesn't have the same auto-interview policy with the secondaries, and it made me sad, lol.

 

[jammy22]

Got the same email about Vandy. Nothing since though, hopefully by early next week...

I don't think they do pre-secondary screens for MSTP. But we don't have to pay the fee which makes up for the lack of screen.

 

[Remuneration]

Following up on "what are my chances?," is my list of schools reasonably balanced given my stats?

NYU
Stanford
UMich
WashU
UWash
UMN
UNC
UAB
UColorado
UIowa
UPenn
UPitt
UWisc
Vanderbilt
UIlli


40N, sGPA and cGPA ~3.90-3.93
Research experience: 1: Full summer undergrad + part-time through the fall semester + 2: Full time research technician from May 09-present.
Limited shadowing (~15hrs), pursuing more now that my schedule is more flexible.
Some other minor ECs: (tutoring, intramural sports, etc).

I doubt that it's a notable mitigating factor, but my first two years of undergraduate I pursued unrelated fields (Computer Science, then Foreign Language). It wasn't until the end of sophomore/beginning of junior year that I became engrossed in biology/medicine and began to involve myself in related extracurriculars. Completed my undergrad and currently work at UMich for what it's worth.

 

[xcrunner01]

Got the same email about Vandy. Nothing since though, hopefully by early next week...

I don't think they do pre-secondary screens for MSTP. But we don't have to pay the fee which makes up for the lack of screen.

Dang, I thought they screened and got excited. However- no secondary fee?!?! Best news ever

 

[xcrunner01]

Following up on "what are my chances?," is my list of schools reasonably balanced given my stats?

NYU
Stanford
UMich
WashU
UWash
UMN
UNC
UAB
UColorado
UIowa
UPenn
UPitt
UWisc
Vanderbilt
UIlli


40N, sGPA and cGPA ~3.90-3.93
Research experience: 1: Full summer undergrad + part-time through the fall semester + 2: Full time research technician from May 09-present.
Limited shadowing (~15hrs), pursuing more now that my schedule is more flexible.
Some other minor ECs: (tutoring, intramural sports, etc).

I doubt that it's a notable mitigating factor, but my first two years of undergraduate I pursued unrelated fields (Computer Science, then Foreign Language). It wasn't until the end of sophomore/beginning of junior year that I became engrossed in biology/medicine and began to involve myself in related extracurriculars. Completed my undergrad and currently work at UMich for what it's worth.

Looks good. With those stats you could try for some additional top schools like Yale, Harvard, etc... Good luck!

 

[Ariodant]

Looks good. With those stats you could try for some additional top schools like Yale, Harvard, etc... Good luck!

I somewhat disagree. Remuneration, your stats look excellent, but you only have one year research experience and 15hr of clinical shadowing. Neither is going to help with your application.

 

[Remuneration]

Well, if my ECs were in line with my GPA/MCAT, asking a question like that would just make me a pompous jerk.

Obviously I can't do much about my research, but hopefully (for what good it does me) I'll be able to report some expanded shadowing/clinical volunteer xp around the time I get to secondaries.

 

[alacast]

Has anyone else started/finished the Duke secondary? If so, how did you handle the plethora of essays with no character limits? I thinking about writing a page or so for some essays, and just a paragraph for the rest. Any thoughts? It seems going into depth on all 7 prompts would be madness.


"What do you consider to be professional behavior?"...Sheesh.

 

[emm0087]

Due to a very hectic summer and some pretty intense family issues that distracted me, I won't be submitting my AMCAS until the end of this week (hopefully). The committee letter at my school takes 4-6 weeks to write, and they require that I receive 4-5 secondaries before I can even ask them to start writing it. I'm hoping that I'll get a few secondaries sent out automatically before AMCAS is verified, and I can spend time now completing them, so that EVERYTHING will be sent in under 7-8 weeks or so. That puts me about mid-August. Am I screwed? Rolling admissions start August 1, right?

 

[orrghead16]

Due to a very hectic summer and some pretty intense family issues that distracted me, I won't be submitting my AMCAS until the end of this week (hopefully). The committee letter at my school takes 4-6 weeks to write, and they require that I receive 4-5 secondaries before I can even ask them to start writing it. I'm hoping that I'll get a few secondaries sent out automatically before AMCAS is verified, and I can spend time now completing them, so that EVERYTHING will be sent in under 7-8 weeks or so. That puts me about mid-August. Am I screwed? Rolling admissions start August 1, right?

Review mostly starts August 1. Being complete by mid-august still puts pretty close to when they start review. Not early, but not late. If anything else, no reason to worry about it now. Best you can do is get it in ASAP.

 

[muchomaas]

The committee letter at my school takes 4-6 weeks to write, and they require that I receive 4-5 secondaries before I can even ask them to start writing it.

I'm sort of in the same boat, my school takes 3-4 weeks to write the letter. Sucks that they can't turn those things out a little faster, or just have faith that you are actually applying.

 

[CielloStelatto]

mine says give them ~2 weeks, and i asked them on the first day amcas opened, when i submitted. no word yet.

 

[xcrunner01]

Has anyone else started/finished the Duke secondary? If so, how did you handle the plethora of essays with no character limits? I thinking about writing a page or so for some essays, and just a paragraph for the rest. Any thoughts? It seems going into depth on all 7 prompts would be madness.


"What do you consider to be professional behavior?"...Sheesh.

lol, yeah I can sympathize, Duke's secondary is a beast. I haven't even started it yet...trying to get the less intimidating schools done first! I have looked at the prompts, though, and I plan on writing a similar amount ranging from a paragraph to a page depending on the prompt.

Good luck! It seems as though Duke has a pretty effective self-screening process since you've got to be pretty interested in the school to complete all of those essays!

 

[injunjoe]

any previous applicants care to give their thoughts about what the screening cutoffs are for the UCs?

 

[CielloStelatto]

anyone out there heard back from any schools other than secondaries?

 

[Medphil]

What are my chances for MD/PhD:

• 31P (10 PS, 9 VR, 12 BS). 3.98 GPA (4.0 in both majors).
• 3 yrs. research, 2 yrs./400+ hrs. volunteering/shadowing.
• national pre-research scholarship; honors, etc.
• part-time sports team, 3 yrs. paper columnist/editor.
• no-name college, not a minority.

Basically, great everything except for MCATs, and I'm not taking it again.

I think the best thing for me would be to apply MD/PhD mostly, and some lower-level non-reach MD-only, just in case.
1. Should I even bother to apply MD/PhD ANYWHERE?
2. Should I even bother apply to Harvard, UCSF (I'm from NY), etc.?
3. If no, should I even bother apply MD-only to Harvard, UCSF, etc.?

Really appreciate anyone's feedback. NOTE: Please note if you think there's any chance at all.

 

[Neuronix]

NOTE: Please note if you think there's any chance at all.

There's always a chance. It's just a question of whether it's similar odds to you winning a multi-million dollar lottery, or whether it's similar odds to the sun coming up tomorrow.

 

[yeastfan21]

What are my chances for MD/PhD:

• 31P (10 PS, 9 VR, 12 BS). 3.98 GPA (4.0 in both majors).
• 3 yrs. research, 2 yrs./400+ hrs. volunteering/shadowing.
• national pre-research scholarship; honors, etc.
• part-time sports team, 3 yrs. paper columnist/editor.
• no-name college, not a minority.

Basically, great everything except for MCATs, and I'm not taking it again.

I think the best thing for me would be to apply MD/PhD mostly, and some lower-level non-reach MD-only, just in case.
1. Should I even bother to apply MD/PhD ANYWHERE?
2. Should I even bother apply to Harvard, UCSF (I'm from NY), etc.?
3. If no, should I even bother apply MD-only to Harvard, UCSF, etc.?

Really appreciate anyone's feedback. NOTE: Please note if you think there's any chance at all.

Yes, you can definitely get into MD/PhD programs with your stats, so long as your research recs are good (the MCAT score isn't an absolute barrier). I'd also point out that MD-PhD programs aren't, by definition, more competitive than MD-only programs... yes, they are more selective overall, but I'd argue that certain kinds of candidates (those with very research-based credentials, in particular) are actually more compelling dual-degree applicants than MD-only applicants. I couldn't tell you whether than applies to you, though.

As far as Harvard goes, you should know that any student who's admitted to Harvard M.D. is allowed to join the MD-PhD program if they want; they just have to apply for funding after their second year. Many schools work that way, actually -- if you're a med student who wants to do a PhD, why should they stop you? When you mark down on AMCAS and the Harvard secondary that you want MD/PhD, really what you're applying for is a *funded* spot in their MSTP program. That's really, really competitive -- and with that MCAT and your "no-name" school (probably the bigger issue for Harvard), I don't think you have a shot. Still, I'd recommend putting down that you want to do the MD-PhD. It doesn't hurt you at all (since you're still considered in the MD-only pool), and, besides, it always is beneficial to be honest about your interests/intentions/goals.

 

[Medphil]

There's always a chance. It's just a question of whether it's similar odds to you winning a multi-million dollar lottery, or whether it's similar odds to the sun coming up tomorrow.

Please, Neuronix, I knew someone would say something like that. I'm quite serious, and I would really appreciate your candid feedback (unless, of course, that is what you really think -- then, I really appreciate your bruntness.).

As far as Harvard goes, you should know that any student who's admitted to Harvard M.D. is allowed to join the MD-PhD program if they want; they just have to apply for funding after their second year. Many schools work that way, actually -- if you're a med student who wants to do a PhD, why should they stop you? When you mark down on AMCAS and the Harvard secondary that you want MD/PhD, really what you're applying for is a *funded* spot in their MSTP program.

Thanks for the detailed response, yeastfan21. That's what I'm hoping -- that my research creds are good enough.

I knew about entering a PhD program once in MD, but is that actually entering the MD-PhD program (officially, with the same 2-~4-2 yrs. split, differences, and funding), or is it just getting your PhD along with MD?

As far as still being considered in the MD-only pool: yeah, but I read that thread of advantages/disadvantages to being accepted MD-only if applied MD/PhD, and it seems some (many? most?) put you at a slight disadvantage in terms of timing, how late you're considered for MD only. (Which is why I'll be applying to many, many schools and as a mix of MD/PhD and MD-only -- unless I hear anything conclusive and different.)

Edit: That, btw, is the reason I'm applying a mix of MD and MD/PhD: with my already negative MCAT scores, I don't want to end up considered in the near-last pool of MD/PhD-rejected, MD-only applicants. Makes sense?

 

[Ariodant]

Please, Neuronix, I knew someone would say something like that. I'm quite serious, and I would really appreciate your candid feedback (unless, of course, that is what you really think -- then, I really appreciate your bruntness.).


Thanks for the detailed response, yeastfan21. That's what I'm hoping -- that my research creds are good enough.

I knew about entering a PhD program once in MD, but is that actually entering the MD-PhD program (officially, with the same 2-~4-2 yrs. split, differences, and funding), or is it just getting your PhD along with MD?

As far as still being considered in the MD-only pool: yeah, but I read that thread of advantages/disadvantages to being accepted MD-only if applied MD/PhD, and it seems some (many? most?) put you at a slight disadvantage in terms of timing, how late you're considered for MD only. (Which is why I'll be applying to many, many schools and as a mix of MD/PhD and MD-only -- unless I hear anything conclusive and different.)

Edit: That, btw, is the reason I'm applying a mix of MD and MD/PhD: with my already negative MCAT scores, I don't want to end up considered in the near-last pool of MD/PhD-rejected, MD-only applicants. Makes sense?

Neuronix said what he said because he was being serious. We have no idea what kind of research you did, how good are your LORs and interview skills, how you portray yourself in your primary and secondary essays...The list of factors that contribute to your competitiveness in the application process goes on and on, yet we know nothing about any of those, except for the stats you posted. I would be lying if I say I can offer you a precise estimate of your chances. Even if I know you like a monozygotic twin, Neuronix's statement will still be true, because the other variable in the equation, namely the adcoms, their thought process and decisions are way out of my wildest guesses.

All of us who have gone through the process know how frustratingly random it is. There are some general trends we can talk about, but who knows if any of them applies to you? We can also elaborate on what we would do in your situation (I, for one, would retake the MCAT), but I doubt that's what you want to hear.

 

[orrghead16]

Neuronix said what he said because he was being serious. We have no idea what kind of research you did, how good are your LORs and interview skills, how you portray yourself in your primary and secondary essays...The list of factors that contribute to your competitiveness in the application process goes on and on, yet we know nothing about any of those, except for the stats you posted. I would be lying if I say I can offer you a precise estimate of your chances. Even if I know you like a monozygotic twin, Neuronix's statement will still be true, because the other variable in the equation, namely the adcoms, their thought process and decisions are way out of my wildest guesses.

All of us who have gone through the process know how frustratingly random it is. There are some general trends we can talk about, but who knows if any of them applies to you? We can also elaborate on what we would do in your situation (I, for one, would retake the MCAT), but I doubt that's what you want to hear.

I would agree 100%.

I would go far to say that if you are looking to get into an MSTP, and don't have really great research (sounds like you have pretty good, but echo from before, how can we tell?), retake the MCAT.

If you are looking to get into non-MSTP MD/PhD programs, then I would say you have a decent chance. I know of lots of folks who got it with lower than 31 (28,29) to non-MSTP md/phd programs specifically because their interviews were great. I know of folks who have gotten in to MSTPs with 30-32.

I will say that because MCAT (and to a lesser extent GPA) are overemphasized as criteria for admissions on the board because they are the only thing someone behind a computed screen can quantify. Really, on here it does seem like you need 36+ to get in somewhere, especially to an MSTP. Realisitically, I would say that the average for the top 10ish programs is ~35-36. Next ten goes around ~34 (Pitts matriculant avg is ~34), and it probably stays around there for MSTPs and better MD/PhD programs.

 

[Neuronix]

Please, Neuronix, I knew someone would say something like that. I'm quite serious, and I would really appreciate your candid feedback (unless, of course, that is what you really think -- then, I really appreciate your bruntness.).

. Your chances of getting into Harvard/UCSF for MD or MD/PhD are very poor. But, I don't understand your fixation on these schools one bit.

I'd say the chances of you getting in somewhere if you apply broadly across the top-40 USNews research ranking schools (almost all of which are MSTP) are quite high, based on this little bit we know about you. Top-10 is very unlikely, however, and you're asking about the tip-top programs with regard to competitiveness. But, you asked about "is it possible"... Of course it's possible. The only person who can say it's impossible is the person who puts the rejection stamp on your application.

I will say that because MCAT (and to a lesser extent GPA) are overemphasized as criteria for admissions on the board because they are the only thing someone behind a computed screen can quantify. Really, on here it does seem like you need 36+ to get in somewhere, especially to an MSTP. Realisitically, I would say that the average for the top 10ish programs is ~35-36. Next ten goes around ~34 (Pitts matriculant avg is ~34), and it probably stays around there for MSTPs and better MD/PhD programs.

If you read my admissions guide, I say 34+ is good, 36+ is excellent. I also say that if your MCAT is lacking but your GPA and research are excellent, you still have a good chance. 3 years of research may or may not be excellent, depending how good the research was. I don't just pull these numbers out of nowhere arbitrarily.

MCAT statistics (all averages as matriculated unless otherwise specified):
Pitt data: https://www.mdphd.pitt.edu/admissions_statistics.asp (avg accepted 36, avg matriculant 35 this past year)
Penn: http://www.med.upenn.edu/mstp/admission.shtml (they say 36, it's really 36.x)
UWashington: http://www.mstp.washington.edu/admissions/faq.html (36)
Cornell: http://www.med.cornell.edu/education/admissions/app_sel_cri.html (34)
Hopkins: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/mdphd/Admissions/Stats.html (36)
WashU: http://mstp.wustl.edu/mstp/mstp.nsf/WV/A621E99E6AF3DAB58625700B0056CB0B?OpenDocument (36)
UCLA: http://www.medsch.ucla.edu/mstp/faqs.htm (36)
Baylor: http://www.bcm.edu/mstp/admissions_statistics.html (accepted: 37.2, matriculated: 35.6)

BUT, when you go a bit further down the list...
Albert Einstein: http://mstp.aecom.yu.edu/faq_admissions.html (33)
UAB: http://www.mstp.uab.edu/process.html (34, interviewed)
MUSC: http://www.musc.edu/grad/admissions/mstp.html (32)

So my point is... If you're below average in one stat, it's not going to doom you from certain schools. The poster asked about Harvard and UCSF. They're hard to get into school for ANYONE. In fact, any top-10 USNews average school is. And you're asking to get in with a MCAT far less than their average. Could it happen? Sure. Is it likely? Not really, though it depends on the rest of the app. But when you start looking at less competitive programs, your MCAT is closer to their average, and you will likely get in to one of them with an otherwise solid application. Averages are averages. But there's a range to that average. Still, the lower parts of the range are reserved for serious research superstars or URMs. 3 years of research is typically on the order of average for a top program, and not a serious research superstar, unless there's some first author Science paper I don't know about.

 

[muchomaas]

So I sort of asked a similar question above but now I'd like to target it towards something else:

When a secondary has a question like "Describe your research interests/goals", how specific should I be? My initial approach has been to look up the faculty and note which ones are doing research I'm interested in. But from there, should I just state what the faculty are doing that I like/why I like it, or need I try and come up with a more specific proposal/question that is an extrapolation upon one of their works? I'm applying to neuro programs, and I don't have a strong enough background in it to feel like I can make a large claim that would lead to a research proposal, and there are many aspects of neuroscience that I could see myself studying. Should I build an essay around something like that?

Thanks.

 

[marie78]

I just got an interview invite from Chicago-Pritzker (yay!). But the invite was specifically from the MD admissions committee, so I contacted the MSTP office to see what the deal was. They told me that if you apply MD/MSTP then you are interviewed by the MD committee first and then if the MSTP committee likes your application you are invited back for a second interview later in the year.

So, does anyone know how common it is to have two separate interview dates like this? I thought that you usually had MD and MSTP interviews in the same day. It's really going to strain my time and budget if I have to fly out to places multiple times.

 

[Neuronix]

They told me that if you apply MD/MSTP then you are interviewed by the MD committee first and then if the MSTP committee likes your application you are invited back for a second interview later in the year.

So, does anyone know how common it is to have two separate interview dates like this?

WTF??? You know I've been doing this awhile and I have never, ever heard of something this stupid before. Is this a new policy this year? Could this be misinformation or miscommunication? My guess is that what they mean is you can still be invited by the MD/PhD program even without the MD interview. The question is whether you want to be considered MD-only, and that's probably the purpose of the MD interview. Perhaps you could clarify with someone else? Like call if you e-mailed, e-mail if you called, or just talk to someone else who should really be in the know.

When a secondary has a question like "Describe your research interests/goals", how specific should I be? My initial approach has been to look up the faculty and note which ones are doing research I'm interested in.

Another broad question for which there's no right answer. My opinion would be to answer the question honestly, however spin it towards projects you know the school has faculty who are strong in. You're not writing a grant or research proposal, just talking about your interests and goals. It could be wise to tailor it to the school's strengths, but I wouldn't blatantly name all the profs in each area. They're not asking you to do that, and it just looks like pandering if you do.

 

[Ariodant]

For those schools that seperate their MD and MD/PhD admissions, the interviews are always scheduled together so you only need to make one trip. I've never heard of an MD interview invite without any MD/PhD decisions.

 

[marie78]

So based on the info they gave me, I think I only have to attend the MD interview at Pritzker if I want to be considered for MD-only (if rejected by the MSTP program).

So this brings up another topic. A few schools ask you to indicate if you would like to be considered for MD-only if you're rejected by the MSTP committee. I am committed to doing MD/PhD but I have decided to select the MD-backup option at these schools. My reasoning is that if all else fails and I don't get an offer by a good MD/PhD program then I could reapply after a year of med school. I'm aware that reapplying may not work, but at this point I just want to keep options open. Any thoughts on whether it's best to apply MSTP-only or MD/MSTP?