1/2 of all primary care docs would consider quitting

[MilkmanAl]

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I emphasized the bolded portion, because saying canned and frozen vegetables are as healthy as fresh is not true at all. If anything the canned stuff is equally unhealthy because of all the preservatives, salt, and other things inside of them.

You can't simply equate fresh food with being the same thing as preserved food. Preserved food is often much, much unhealthier because of those other factors I mentioned.

You're taking my statement to the extreme and missing the point. Obviously canned goods are not as good as fresh ingredients. They beat the hell out of fried stuff with cream sauce, though.

 

[deleted74029]

I think it'd be a good idea to have seperate Family Practice schools, like they have done with podiatry. It might help to lure more people into the field.

 

[FlowLimited]

On the other hand, you don't get fat by barely meeting your basal metabolic needs, and there are plenty of fat poor people. I'm betting that the people who really do need to eat unhealthily to get the calories they need are a very small minority. (I still don't buy the crap food is cheaper per calorie argument, but I'll go with it for the thread's sake.)

I don't want this discussion to turn into an attack on you, so let's get one thing straight. You are absolutely right that there are things like grains, beans, and pasta that are cheaper than junk food like potato chips, and that milk is cheaper than soda much of the time.

However, what many people fail to consider are the associated costs that go along with preparing these sorts of meals that we take for granted. We take functional kitchens for granted. We take pots, pans, ovens, refrigerators and time for granted. A Happy Meal is a Happy Meal and you buy it and you eat it. The costs stop there. When you buy ingredients at the store, you pay for them and you pay for the electricity to cook them and the water to clean things up. To most people on here, this probably sounds like a laughable argument, but for low-income families it's a major factor.

 

[deleted74029]

Kinda off-topic, but there was a pretty huge guy interviewing at a school I was recently visiting. I wonder if that will be detrimental to his chances of getting in.

 

[scarletgirl777]

On the other hand, you don't get fat by barely meeting your basal metabolic needs, and there are plenty of fat poor people. I'm betting that the people who really do need to eat unhealthily to get the calories they need are a very small minority. (I still don't buy the crap food is cheaper per calorie argument, but I'll go with it for the thread's sake.)

How do you not buy that argument? It's fact. Many, many smart people have done studies on it and related concepts like "food deserts."

Also, keep in mind that many people live in or near cities to be near their work, and we all know that the price of fruit in rural Mississippi or Arkansas is going to be different from the price of fruit in the Bronx.

 

[MilkmanAl]

When you buy ingredients at the store, you pay for them and you pay for the electricity to cook them and the water to clean things up. To most people on here, this probably sounds like a laughable argument, but for low-income families it's a major factor.

No, that makes perfect sense. I hadn't considered the peripheral costs. I'm still confused as to how the people who really are that poor are still becoming obese, though.

How do you not buy that argument? It's fact. Many, many smart people have done studies on it and related concepts like "food deserts."

Sorry for not spending what little free time I have researching Americans' nutrition.

 

[airplanes]

I think it'd be a good idea to have seperate Family Practice schools, like they have done with podiatry. It might help to lure more people into the field.

Now there's something to think about. Podiatry is a highly specialized profession though...

 

[FlowLimited]

No, that makes perfect sense. I hadn't considered the peripheral costs. I'm still confused as to how the people who really are that poor are still becoming obese, though.

Honestly, I don't really know either. We all know that weight gain is based on excess calories, so I think that those who are really not getting enough to eat are staying thin. Those who are eating enough, but all of it junk food, are the ones gaining weight.

Oh, and about the "food deserts." Apparently that's the term for neighborhoods with little access to healthy foods. I had to look at Wikipedia to figure it out, though. I assumed it was some sort of crazy desert where there was food instead of sand and where you had to shield yourself from the occasional foodstorm so as not to get a cucumber in your eye.

Shows what I know about health and nutrition...😀

 

[cbrons]

boo to walgreens health clinics. No one trusts any of the NPs in our small rural town. its funny because its university-town so all the kids from the city never go to the health center at school or any doc in town because they think they're all a bunch of dumb hicks... sadddddddddddd

 

[cbrons]

not taking responsibility for your own actions is the american way. being impatient, having an inflated sense of entitlement is also the american way. I smoke/drink/do drugs/eat a lot of bad stuff/never exercise/never take medicine is not my fault, its the doctors and he needs to fix me right now or ill sue him for malpractice.

 

[cbrons]

oh and this is for all my pharmacy boys and girls out there:

"what do you mean medicaid doesnt cover chantix? its not my fault i smoked myself into emphysema."

"what do you mean my insurance doesnt cover new generation antiretrovirals? i'm HIV positive damnit!"

harsh

 

[scarletgirl777]

No, that makes perfect sense. I hadn't considered the peripheral costs. I'm still confused as to how the people who really are that poor are still becoming obese, though.

Sorry for not spending what little free time I have researching Americans' nutrition.

I wouldn't say I research it. I would say I read the news and try to pay attention to current issues concerning healthcare. I thought it was just understood that poor diet is often related to socioeconomics, so it confused me to see a medical student acting like the concept is foreign to him. But no offense; naturally, we're all busy people.

 

[JeanLuc]

84% of statistics have a 52% chance of being complete crap, and you're hearing that from a stats major.

👍

 

[MilkmanAl]

I wouldn't say I research it. I would say I read the news and try to pay attention to current issues concerning healthcare. I thought it was just understood that poor diet is often related to socioeconomics, so it confused me to see a medical student acting like the concept is foreign to him. But no offense; naturally, we're all busy people.

I'm quite aware of the SES relationship with unhealthy diets, thanks, but I always associated it with a lack of education rather than an "inability" to eat healthily.

 

[CarrieBad]

I'm quite aware of the SES relationship with unhealthy diets, thanks, but I always associated it with a lack of education rather than an "inability" to eat healthily.

I agree that usually it's an education problem. When I see young moms waiting for the subway with a baby who has a bottle of orange soda and a bag of cookies, it's not from an inability to eat healthily. You don't see well educated moms doing that! The other problem is, it's much easier to educate someone to prevent them from starting a bad habit/addiction, it's much much harder to stop it 10 years later. EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION!!

 

[Bibbed]

I think it'd be a good idea to have seperate Family Practice schools, like they have done with podiatry. It might help to lure more people into the field.

I've been saying this for years now. Family Medicine residencies already have the lowest (or second lowest) average Step 1 scores. They should have separate medical schools devoted solely to PC with lower admissions requirements that would appeal to more college students. You'd still have the best and brightest as specialists.

Honestly, I don't see how this doesn't happen soon.

 

[JeanLuc]

I've been saying this for years now. Family Medicine residencies already have the lowest (or second lowest) average Step 1 scores. They should have separate medical schools devoted solely to PC with lower admissions requirements that would appeal to more college students. You'd still have the best and brightest as specialists.

Honestly, I don't see how this doesn't happen soon.

Well... I can point you to DO schools. How appealing are they to uni students? The admission standards there are low enough and would be a far better answer to expanding primary care than establish separate schools.

I also have to say that it really quite insulting and not fair to label general practitioners as so lacking in knowledge and abilities. Just the vastness and details of what they study for Board (Re)Certification is incredible. They are incredibly under-appreciated. Many choose it not as a last resort, but because that's what they're most passionate about. I think what you're suggesting would be akin to permitting physician assistants to prescribe/treat patients without supervision. Its so wrong on so many grounds. Please note that I say this with no disrespect towards you.

 

[Bibbed]

Well... I can point you to DO schools. How appealing are they to uni students? The admission standards there are low enough and would be a far better answer to expanding primary care than establish separate schools.

I also have to say that it really quite insulting and not fair to label general practitioners as so lacking in knowledge and abilities. Just the vastness and details of what they study for Board (Re)Certification is incredible. They are incredibly under-appreciated. Many choose it not as a last resort, but because that's what they're most passionate about. I think what you're suggesting would be akin to permitting physician assistants to prescribe/treat patients without supervision. Its so wrong on so many grounds. Please note that I say this with no disrespect towards you.

None of what you posted is relevant to what I meant in my original post.

1. I'm not talking about lowering admissions standards below DO levels.
2. I'm not saying only unskilled/unintelligent people go into PC, but for some people with low board scores they have no other residency options but PC.
3. And PC docs clearly aren't under-appreciated because there is such a push for people to practice PC right now. Most students wouldn't choose PC though, because reimbursement as a function of time invested sucks.
4. I'm not saying anything akin to a PA w/o supervision.

What I was referring to was lowering admission standards to DO-like levels, however the existence of the DO program does complicate matters because it provides a non-PC alternative to pre-meds with lower GPA/MCAT. Some people just don't want a DO degree, so offering an MD degree (in PC) to those who are just missing the MD cut at current standards could boost the number of PC doctors.

I'm not trying to be insulting to PC docs or you. I apologize if it seems that way.

 

[geoff325]

Now there's something to think about. Podiatry is really a highly specialized though profession though...

yeah, i chose podiatry for a number of reasons, even though I was borderline MD (would have probably had to wait for waitlists and easy DO). A pessimistic but realistic way to view my choice was to say I dont want to get stuck doing family care (low board scores--2 brothers that are MD's and they both say these are the people who don't match), and I want to specialize, so I will do podiatry and limit myself to only foot/ankle. Specialize, still do surgery/admit patients/prescribe medicine...(with some limitations in some states)

 

[airplanes]

None of what you posted is relevant to what I meant in my original post.

1. I'm not talking about lowering admissions standards below DO levels.
2. I'm not saying only unskilled/unintelligent people go into PC, but for some people with low board scores they have no other residency options but PC.
3. And PC docs clearly aren't under-appreciated because there is such a push for people to practice PC right now. Most students wouldn't choose PC though, because reimbursement as a function of time invested sucks.
4. I'm not saying anything akin to a PA w/o supervision.

What I was referring to was lowering admission standards to DO-like levels, however the existence of the DO program does complicate matters because it provides a non-PC alternative to pre-meds with lower GPA/MCAT. Some people just don't want a DO degree, so offering an MD degree (in PC) to those who are just missing the MD cut at current standards could boost the number of PC doctors.

I'm not trying to be insulting to PC docs or you. I apologize if it seems that way.

Would that work though. PC docs sure seem under-appreciated because they are looked down upon by their peers and make less money than their specialized colleagues. Now that I think of it, creating a school for PC's would kind of exacerbate the stigma that already exists...

 

[8744]

I don't want this discussion to turn into an attack on you, so let's get one thing straight. You are absolutely right that there are things like grains, beans, and pasta that are cheaper than junk food like potato chips, and that milk is cheaper than soda much of the time.

However, what many people fail to consider are the associated costs that go along with preparing these sorts of meals that we take for granted. We take functional kitchens for granted. We take pots, pans, ovens, refrigerators and time for granted. A Happy Meal is a Happy Meal and you buy it and you eat it. The costs stop there. When you buy ingredients at the store, you pay for them and you pay for the electricity to cook them and the water to clean things up. To most people on here, this probably sounds like a laughable argument, but for low-income families it's a major factor.

Jesus. We are now to flee so quickly from any notion at all of personal responsibility that even owning some pots and pans and a kitchen knife or two is now become a privilege. We used to manage a "project" in poorer-than-poor Louisiana and I assure you that every apartment had a small but functional kitchen in which several of my tenants actually cooked some fairly sophisticated dishes.

Dude, I am a good cook and get by with a few pots and pans and maybe twenty dollars worth of other tools (except for my really, really nice knives and my stand mixer but neither of these are essential).

I suppose that the only thing left to except from the Holy Underserved is that they wipe their own asses.