Let me preface this post by saying I am in no way trying to troll this forum, but have a legitimate question about how medical schools accept students. I've been looking at medapplicants and MSARS and it seems as though from what I can see that most students that are in the 10th percentile range of acceptances are usually URM. Is this true? Are URM that much more heavily favored? If you are not URM but your stats show that you are in the lower end of the scale are you more likely to be rejected than URM applicants? (I'm not asking about fairness, but only asking about its existent and affect in the process)
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10th Percentile Acceptances
Started by CuriosityKillsMe
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As I understand it,<10th acceptances got in despite their stats, not because of them. They usually have something to make up for it--spectacular ECs, got a Master's (but their uGPA is bringing the total down), has some incredible backstory of overcoming adversity. Being a URM, as you've already noticed, probably helps, partially because of Affirmative Action-like policies and also probably partially because of that 'backstory of overcoming adversity' thing being more common in those groups.
I'd put it this way: if the school has one spot left, and it's down to two applicants who are exactly the same except for race, it's going to the URM. There's no algorithm for exactly how much your race helps/hurts you, though URM helps, but not as much as being a qualified applicant who is a good fit for the school. That being said, please don't only apply to schools where your stats are below the 10th percentile!
I'd put it this way: if the school has one spot left, and it's down to two applicants who are exactly the same except for race, it's going to the URM. There's no algorithm for exactly how much your race helps/hurts you, though URM helps, but not as much as being a qualified applicant who is a good fit for the school. That being said, please don't only apply to schools where your stats are below the 10th percentile!
MDApps is a very small pool to draw conclusions from. There are tables from AAMC that provide more specific data for various factors, admission rates with given MCAT/GPA combos, etc.
That said, just to bring up a tangential point: one can be 10th percentile in one area and not in another. I was at or near the 10th percentile for many schools I applied to (by GPA), but above the median admitted student by MCAT. When I'm included in their stats, I'll bring down the GPA, but bring up the MCAT (based on past scores). Schools have a whole mix of students with high stats all around, slightly discordant stats, and those with lower scores.
As for the other factors that affect admission... I'll leave those alone. There's plenty that you can find with the search function, but people get a bit heated about what influences admission.
That said, just to bring up a tangential point: one can be 10th percentile in one area and not in another. I was at or near the 10th percentile for many schools I applied to (by GPA), but above the median admitted student by MCAT. When I'm included in their stats, I'll bring down the GPA, but bring up the MCAT (based on past scores). Schools have a whole mix of students with high stats all around, slightly discordant stats, and those with lower scores.
As for the other factors that affect admission... I'll leave those alone. There's plenty that you can find with the search function, but people get a bit heated about what influences admission.
Discussed multiple times on this forum. Focus on your application competitiveness only; head to the advice above about not applying to schools you are below the 10th percentile stats wise unless you have an exceptionally unique aspect to bring to the table.
Does it exist, yes. Does it impact the process for other applicants? No infact, URM matriculant numbers are pretty low compared to the ~20,000 that matriculate each year.
Good luck with your application cycle.
Does it exist, yes. Does it impact the process for other applicants? No infact, URM matriculant numbers are pretty low compared to the ~20,000 that matriculate each year.
Good luck with your application cycle.
yes, yes, and yes
Matriculants below the 10th percentile have something valuable in short supply.
Would you say that these students would've been accepted regardless of their GPA or MCAT?
Not regardless of any numbers, I mean a 2.2 GPA / 480 MCAT is still going to get a URM applicant rejected.
Of course. I meant a slight difference of say 3.4 vs 3.6
Also note that there could be more at play, especially in the GPA category. These could be applicants who aced the MCAT or did substantial post-bac work.
Alternatively low MCAT people could be those with GPAs at the TOP 90th percentile for that school.
Other desirable traits that can get a 10th percentile applicant accepted are things like military service, a previous career, or major athletic accomplishments just to name a few.
And yes, URM status helps. No one wants a class photo that looks like this:
Alternatively low MCAT people could be those with GPAs at the TOP 90th percentile for that school.
Other desirable traits that can get a 10th percentile applicant accepted are things like military service, a previous career, or major athletic accomplishments just to name a few.
And yes, URM status helps. No one wants a class photo that looks like this:
3.4 + solid MCAT + URM is competitive for almost any school in the country
SavagryAlso note that there could be more at play, especially in the GPA category. These could be applicants who aced the MCAT or did substantial post-bac work.
Alternatively low MCAT people could be those with GPAs at the TOP 90th percentile for that school.
Other desirable traits that can get a 10th percentile applicant accepted are things like military service, a previous career, or major athletic accomplishments just to name a few.
And yes, URM status helps. No one wants a class photo that looks like this:
Not if they don't have amazing ECs. People tend to assume just because you're URM it means you can get decent to solid numbers and just get accepted anywhere they want.. that's not true. If it was there'd be much more "diversity" in my incoming class.
jcorpsman's class diversity... AAMC population statistics.... hmm that's a tough one but I'm actually gonna go with 3.4 URM + solid MCAT being extremely competitive (for an example [edit: of how much boost the URM part provides], 3.3 / 28 = 75% admit rate, the same as white 3.7 / 34) 😉
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This is a gross exaggeration. They'll be competitive for many schools, but you aren't going to see any URMs with 3.4 GPAs and 507 MCATs at Harvard, Penn or Hopkins. It's much more like a 3.4 + Solid MCAT + URM status makes you competitive for mid and low tier MD schools whereas the same stats would make an ORM or White male apply low tier and DO
Oh I see the problem. I think I made it confusing with the example I gave above. That example was not supposed to be of a solid MCAT, but rather an example of the magnitude of the effect (approximately +10 LizzyM points). I don't consider a 507 a solid MCAT, I call that weak or borderline.
I'd consider something like a 33-34 to be a solid MCAT, and a URM with that is going to get interviews up and down their list, including interest at the top, even with a 3.4 GPA. They are effectively a very tiny/rare demographic of 77-78+ LizzyM.
A better way to look at this would be to think that urm candidates are evaluated in the score distribution of urm applicants. An MCAT of 34 is like 99th percentile for urm, so yeah top 20 schools are probably going to throw money at that person.
That's an interesting approach. As an example, a 3.4+/33+ AA applicant is twice as rare as a 3.8+/36+ Asian applicant (2.8% of the pool vs 6.0%).
The relative rarity view seems even more convincing, tbh. Saying the top couple percent of the pool is gonna get plenty of interest is an understatement.
The relative rarity view seems even more convincing, tbh. Saying the top couple percent of the pool is gonna get plenty of interest is an understatement.
Also note that there could be more at play, especially in the GPA category. These could be applicants who aced the MCAT or did substantial post-bac work.
Alternatively low MCAT people could be those with GPAs at the TOP 90th percentile for that school.
Other desirable traits that can get a 10th percentile applicant accepted are things like military service, a previous career, or major athletic accomplishments just to name a few.
And yes, URM status helps. No one wants a class photo that looks like this:
I just realized that's the one where they photoshopped everyone's face in the background to match. I've looked at it like 5 times, and I already knew the joke, and I still missed it!
Here are things that 10th percentile candidates probably have.
1. Solid postbac performance.
2. Solid performance at smp
3. Drastic upward trend.
4. Amazing performance in the other metric MCAT or GPA.
5. Exceptional ecs.
6. Exceptional life story
7. Non-trads with significant distance from those grades in terms of years.
8. Linkage program connections.
9. People with connections at the school that ended up converting a courtesy interview into an acceptance.
10. Wait-list candidates taken to fill class.
There are not enough urm matriculants to make the bold claim that all candidates matriculating under the 10th are urm.
1. Solid postbac performance.
2. Solid performance at smp
3. Drastic upward trend.
4. Amazing performance in the other metric MCAT or GPA.
5. Exceptional ecs.
6. Exceptional life story
7. Non-trads with significant distance from those grades in terms of years.
8. Linkage program connections.
9. People with connections at the school that ended up converting a courtesy interview into an acceptance.
10. Wait-list candidates taken to fill class.
There are not enough urm matriculants to make the bold claim that all candidates matriculating under the 10th are urm.
Your name suits this post.
@libertyyne im a 10th percentiler acceptee at a mid tier and I had number 1, 3, 9 and possibly 5,6 (at least above average in these respects)
That's not necessarily true. URMs also apply to med schools in numbers lower than their percentage in the population. They need ECs, not necessarily killer ECs.
I think @libertyyne's list is solid. Also, important to remember it's pretty unlikely that they're being accepted as 10th percentile in both GPA and MCAT; chances are decent a good chunk of those people excelled at one, struggled on the other, and had an interesting/compelling application otherwise.
