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Started by deleted526278
Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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Promethean said:
More unwarranted nurse-bashing?

You know what I have noticed? Since finding out that I was applying to medical school... forget even accepted, just applying, some physicians who have been very adversarial to me have suddenly turned into mentors, pimping me in clincial situations as if I were one of their residents. I'm precisely the same person I was for those years before... just now they consider me an up and coming member of their guild rather than a member of the enemy camp.

Speaking of self-inflicted: maybe that us vs. them mentality is part of the problem. Even a little mutual respect would go so far.

EDIT: If you want to criticise the education provided by many NP programs, I will agree with you. But categorical demonization of other professionals because of your own insecurities? Lame.
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Alternatively, because you're applying to medicine, they expect you to desire a deeper understanding of pathophys, and are trying to help you. They also realize that you'll have a greater responsibility for patients someday, and will need to know the information they're asking about. They also may identify more with a person who is walking the same path they did than a nurse.
 
Perrotfish said:
If midlevels are effective and safe with that little supervision they are necessarily effective and safe with no supervision at all. That leaves two possibilities when a physician who is supervising 4 midlevels.

1) He is consciously endangering patients by failing to supervise midlevels he believes need supervision.

2) He is consciously robbing his employees by stealing part of the paycheck of 4 independent providers who require no supervision.

Either way, I don't really feel like this kind of thing should be a personal choice. Either we need to define what constitutes adequate supervision, legally, or we need to get rid of midlevel supervision.
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this is true
but then again robbing employees is what america is built on. you don't get rich from your own hard work. you get rich from someone else's hard work
this is why people who run physician management companies make more money than the physicians that they manage
 
Lol, the message I just got on the emergency line....
"We just got this new obamacare dental plan and my wife needs XYZ tx and I'm trying to make sure that obamacare covers it before I bring her in, can you call me back???"

Uh, that is not a dental emergency, also leave me alone, also no, obamacare dental plans are garbage
 
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fancymylotus said:
Lol, the message I just got on the emergency line....
"We just got this new obamacare dental plan and my wife needs XYZ tx and I'm trying to make sure that obamacare covers it before I bring her in, can you call me back???"

Uh, that is not a dental emergency, also leave me alone, also no, obamacare dental plans are garbage
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General rule of thumb: If you have to make sure your insurance covers it before you get a treatment, it's not an emergency.
 
Meh.meh said:
Alternatively, because you're applying to medicine, they expect you to desire a deeper understanding of pathophys, and are trying to help you. They also realize that you'll have a greater responsibility for patients someday, and will need to know the information they're asking about. They also may identify more with a person who is walking the same path they did than a nurse.
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It isn't that I don't appreciate the help, but I am not talking about people who were kind before and are being thoughtful now. There are many physicians who fit that bill, and I am blessed with an abundance of excellent mentors.

I mean a small subset of physicians that I used to dread working with, who were demeaning and openly abusive toward me back when I was "just a nurse." They continue to behave in that fashion toward other people who are "just nurses," but simply expressing interest in medical school earned me highly preferential treatment. It isn't just that they are trying to teach me... they respect my judgment more and take my advice more often. It is like they aren't even the same people.

Your last statement didn't do much to disprove my assertions that there are doctors with unnecessarily adversarial attitudes toward nurses as a group, and that this is maladaptive behavior that, in fact, perpetuates the essential problems they experience in dealing with this group.
 
Promethean said:
It isn't that I don't appreciate the help, but I am not talking about people who were kind before and are being thoughtful now. There are many physicians who fit that bill, and I am blessed with an abundance of excellent mentors.

I mean a small subset of physicians that I used to dread working with, who were demeaning and openly abusive toward me back when I was "just a nurse." They continue to behave in that fashion toward other people who are "just nurses," but simply expressing interest in medical school earned me highly preferential treatment. It isn't just that they are trying to teach me... they respect my judgment more and take my advice more often. It is like they aren't even the same people.

Your last statement didn't do much to disprove my assertions that there are doctors with unnecessarily adversarial attitudes toward nurses as a group, and that this is maladaptive behavior that, in fact, perpetuates the essential problems they experience in dealing with this group.
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I am sorry that you had that experience with some doctors. I respect that you are trying to share your experience in an effort to make things better.

Maybe I can return the favor.

When I listen to a story, I try to ask myself if it seems reasonable. To me, your depiction of some of these doctors seems extremely one dimensional. In order to fill in the differences between my experiences and your own, I tend to fill in the "missing dimensions" with what seems reasonable to me. It's also extremely difficult for me to gauge what you consider "disrespectful" or "unacceptable."

Some people really are just bastards, but in my experience, they are relatively rare. However, I am a male, and a medical student. So perhaps I haven't seen the nastier aspects of some personalities.

It's not my goal to devalue your experience, but understand that it's very difficult for me to get your viewpoint via text. It's probably especially difficult because so many of my friends and family members are in medicine, so when you say "doctors" I think of them.

I don't think I necessarily communicated what I wanted to, but I hope at least part of my point gets across.
 
Promethean said:
It isn't that I don't appreciate the help, but I am not talking about people who were kind before and are being thoughtful now. There are many physicians who fit that bill, and I am blessed with an abundance of excellent mentors.

I mean a small subset of physicians that I used to dread working with, who were demeaning and openly abusive toward me back when I was "just a nurse." They continue to behave in that fashion toward other people who are "just nurses," but simply expressing interest in medical school earned me highly preferential treatment. It isn't just that they are trying to teach me... they respect my judgment more and take my advice more often. It is like they aren't even the same people.

Your last statement didn't do much to disprove my assertions that there are doctors with unnecessarily adversarial attitudes toward nurses as a group, and that this is maladaptive behavior that, in fact, perpetuates the essential problems they experience in dealing with this group.
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I guess they see you as part of the club now...
 
Meh.meh said:
I don't think I necessarily communicated what I wanted to, but I hope at least part of my point gets across.
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I hear you. We all pack and unpack these messages, hoping that they carry the same values when received as when they are sent. There is only so much fidelity to raw text. And so, I trust that the reputation that I build over time here helps to flesh out my words, to give them dimension. I am rarely glib, usually glad to consider alternatives to my own view, and ever ready to admit when I am wrong. This is all so that I can be taken at my word when I say something that conflicts with someone else's experience.

I am glad that you have not experienced the way that certain doctors will treat nurses. I could tell you my litany of stories, but TL;DR, and besides, someone would accuse me of making them up, since it can be hard to believe that grown, professional men and women would treat anyone as shabbily as certain docs treat nurses. If I hadn't been there, I would want to believe that someone was exaggerating or only telling a fraction of the story.

Not all, or even most, people are horrible. But in a large enough group, there will always be a few jerks. And on this forum, when I hear someone throw out there that they think NPs are the enemy because they are nurses, while PAs are safe because they aren't nurses, I figure that it is safe to assume that I've found one.
 
Honestly I'm more comfortable with PAs because I believe their training is much more consistent. It has nothing to do with being a nurse or not. I have so much respect for RNs and NPs who are well trained, it's just that I know not all of them are.
 
fancymylotus said:
srs Q: can hair and makeup people come into your room right after you give birth to make you pretty before you have to see anyone?
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pretty sure this is what celebrities do

when i was on ob, there was this beautiful middle eastern lady who came in with perfect makeup and after she gave birth she still looked better than all the doctors and nurses there
 
Psai said:
pretty sure this is what celebrities do

when i was on ob, there was this beautiful middle eastern lady who came in with perfect makeup and after she gave birth she still looked better than all the doctors and nurses there
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im no celebrity, but there is no way anyone is seeing me looking like a total mess. plus, photographs and stuff.
 
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Winged Scapula said:
Get a surrogate.

Save your figure, your V, and you can look as glamorous as you like during the birth!
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The only downside is the inability to breastfeed at least for the first (whatever time period Pediatricians now recommend). I agree it would look awesome though. You would think they would have machines to reproduce (pun intended) the process. @fancymylotus would look awesome baby in one arm and checking patient's teeth with the other, in high heels.
 
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DermViser said:
The only downside is the inability to breastfeed at least for the first (whatever time period Pediatricians now recommend). I agree it would look awesome though. You would think they would have machines to reproduce (pun intended) the process. @fancymylotus would like awesome baby in one arm and checking patient's teeth with the other, in high heels.
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Not bringing my princesses to work!!!!!!!
 
fancymylotus said:
TRUTH

here have a baby princess

don't call me 15 times today

see you in the evening to pick her up!
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That was more for surgeons, obvi. I've known surgeons that almost love their work so much with one side benefit being not having to take responsibility for certain things at home, leaving it to the wife. Rearing children is so easy, when your wife is doing it all.
 
I can't today, some PA just called my office and berated my girls at the front, made one cry, finally they gave me the phone, and she tried to lecture me about our mutual patient needing clearance prior to tx bc she's pregnant, NO **** YOU DUMBFCK WHY DO YOU THINK I SENT HER TO YOU??? TO TALK ABOUT SHOES AND COUNT STARS?

I told her not to call again till she had the paperwork I needed, and hung up. Waste of space.
 
fancymylotus said:
I can't today, some PA just called my office and berated my girls at the front, made one cry, finally they gave me the phone, and she tried to lecture me about our mutual patient needing clearance prior to tx bc she's pregnant, NO **** YOU DUMBFCK WHY DO YOU THINK I SENT HER TO YOU??? TO TALK ABOUT SHOES AND COUNT STARS?

I told her not to call again till she had the paperwork I needed, and hung up. Waste of space.
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Report him/her to her supervising physician.
 
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fancymylotus said:
Darn it dermie, I was all set to be mean too. My temporary good mood is coz I got a new dress over my lunch break. Bc shopping > eating
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Some people truly aren't worth getting an aneurysm over. It keeps you in the clear in terms of still getting referrals, makes it clear to the consultant that their crew's behavior won't be tolerated and will impact them financially in the future, and the person at fault can be reamed by the person they are trying to still stay employed with. Triple win!
 
DermViser said:
Some people truly aren't worth getting an aneurysm over. It keeps you in the clear in terms of still getting referrals, makes it clear to the consultant that their crew's behavior won't be tolerated and will impact them financially in the future, and the person at fault can be reamed by the person they are trying to still stay employed with. Triple win!
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iPhone autocorrect used to correct my first name to "aneurysm"

True story
 
DermViser said:
Yup, it's a well known phenomenon called degree creep.
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I am anxiously awaiting the day when schools start rolling out "Doctor of Physical Therapy Assistant" programs...maybe "Doctor of Dental Hygiene" and "Doctor of Pharmacy Technicianship" too...

🙄
 
PharmDCandidate2014 said:
You're highly overrating the pharmacy profession. Fancy? We push pills and wear a white coat! :soexcited:

DNP, PharmD, soon we're looking at Doctor of PA? Money making, marketing garbage. :spam:
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Yes, at the VA, the pharmacists there had an RPh before it was required to be a PharmD.
 
DermViser said:
Funny u should mention that: http://www.rdhmag.com/articles/prin...giene-education-sooner-rather-than-later.html
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:wow: :uhno: :wow: :uhno: :wow:

This can't be serious...I just made "Doctor of Dental Hygiene" up off the top of my head...

I can see it now...heaven help the patients who are going to start hearing this:

"Hi I'm Doctor Smith and I'm here to clean your teeth and take your X-rays, and Dr. Jones will be in for your exam afterwards. Oh and if you stop by the Doctor's office, Dr. Thomas will be your nurse and you can see Dr. Petersen if you need a referral to Dr. Murray for physical therapy. Just be sure to bring the script from your Doctor whenever you go to see the Doctor."
 
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DermViser said:
Funny u should mention that: http://www.rdhmag.com/articles/prin...giene-education-sooner-rather-than-later.html
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From the article:

As with any new initiative, there are many parameters that need to be considered. The type of program is one factor to be addressed. For example, there could be an entry level program that results in advanced practitioners capable of working without the supervision of other health-care providers similar to what exists in physical therapy.
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:boom: Since when have there been physical therapists who couldn't work without supervision from another healthcare provider?!? Do they think the move from BSPT -> MPT ->DPT resulted in physical therapists now being able to work "without supervsion"?? :wtf:

I hope and pray that what is being talked about in this article never comes to fruition.
 
Will any school buy into that Doctor of Dental Hygiene (DDH) nonsense unless they manage to have wider scope?
 
DesertPT said:
From the article:




:boom: Since when have there been physical therapists who couldn't work without supervision from another healthcare provider?!? Do they think the move from BSPT -> MPT ->DPT resulted in physical therapists now being able to work "without supervsion"?? :wtf:

I hope and pray that what is being talked about in this article never comes to fruition.
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I'm going to take the assumption they mean PTs can see the patient without a referral from a MD, DO, etc. Prior to the DPT a referral was necessary in all cases. After a PT evaluation is done the plan of care is sent to the physician who signs it off if he/ she agrees (the majority just give you the freedom to make your professional judgement and will agree with what you think is best). NOW, it differs by state. I can only speak of Florida as this is where I practice. Legally, we have direct access for 21 days. Meaning a patient can walk into an outpatient clinic and see a PT before seeing a physician. If the course of treatment is expected to be longer than 21 days a physician visit is required and the provider must sign a POC. The point is the DPT should be able to screen if the patients condition is musculoskeletal and can be treated by the PT or something else that needs to be sent to a physician (ex pt complains of low back pain but the pain is coming from the kidneys or referred pain from the spleen to the shoulder). Now in reality no insurance that I know of will pay for this. So unless a patient comes in as self pay we really don't have direct access as of yet.

This has moved pretty far off topic and I could go further on my opinions and things I completely don't agree with the law of who PT can and cannot accept referrals from but that is for another time and another place. Doesn't really matter to me; I work in a rehab hospital and the physiatrists write the PT orders for all my patients and are relatively easy for me to contact if need be.
 
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Will any school buy into that Doctor of Dental Hygiene (DDH) nonsense unless they manage to have wider scope?
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What are they gonna do, just skip the bachelor's/masters completely? Get you're associates and then do 2 1/2 more years and you've got a doctorate...ugh
 
Schland said:
I'm going to take the assumption they mean PTs can see the patient without a referral from a MD, DO, etc. Prior to the DPT a referral was necessary in all cases. After a PT evaluation is done the plan of care is sent to the physician who signs it off if he/ she agrees (the majority just give you the freedom to make your professional judgement and will agree with what you think is best). NOW, it differs by state. I can only speak of Florida as this is where I practice. Legally, we have direct access for 21 days. Meaning a patient can walk into an outpatient clinic and see a PT before seeing a physician. If the course of treatment is expected to be longer than 21 days a physician visit is required and the provider must sign a POC. The point is the DPT should be able to screen if the patients condition is musculoskeletal and can be treated by the PT or something else that needs to be sent to a physician (ex pt complains of low back pain but the pain is coming from the kidneys or referred pain from the spleen to the shoulder). Now in reality no insurance that I know of will pay for this. So unless a patient comes in as self pay we really don't have direct access as of yet.

This has moved pretty far off topic and I could go further on my opinions and things I completely don't agree with the law of who PT can and cannot accept referrals from but that is for another time and another place. Doesn't really matter to me; I work in a rehab hospital and the physiatrists write the PT orders for all my patients and are relatively easy for me to contact if need be.
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You're right, this does vary quite widely state by state. In AZ I don't believe the PT has to send a POC back to the doc to have it signed of on.

Nevertheless I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that just because the DPT exists, we should have Doctors of Dental Hygiene...that doesn't even make logical sense.
 
DesertPT said:
You're right, this does vary quite widely state by state. In AZ I don't believe the PT has to send a POC back to the doc to have it signed of on.

Nevertheless I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that just because the DPT exists, we should have Doctors of Dental Hygiene...that doesn't even make logical sense.
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Yeah that's pretty dumb. I don't see a scenario where a dental hygienist would be working without a dentist around?? // Does that ever happen?
 
Schland said:
Yeah that's pretty dumb. I don't see a scenario where a dental hygienist would be working without a dentist around?? // Does that ever happen?
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Well who needs a dentist when you have an "advanced practice" hygienist...I have to wonder how advanced dental hygiene can really get...
 
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