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ChrisMack390 said:
I have worked full time in hospitals and outpatient clinics for >3 times the length of the clinical years of medical school. If you are in a hospital and have nothing productive to do, that is your problem.
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See above post. You are totally clueless. Come back when you've actually started medical school.
 
cbrons said:
And you would know that how?

Some bad med schools have trashy shadow-only rotations. Is this a concept that is hard for you to accept?

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Some rotations naturally don't lend themselves well to medical students doing a ton. OB and some surgical subspecialties come to mind. Other specialties like inpatient medicine, peds, neuro, and psych have tasks that are naturally very well suited to medical students. Those are the rotations where most of my time was spent third year. If you're finding it hard to be involved on peds or medicine wards, either your school does things in some wildly different way I've never heard of, or you're the problem.
 
ChrisMack390 said:
I have worked full time in hospitals and outpatient clinics for >3 times the length of the clinical years of medical school. If you are in a hospital and have nothing productive to do, that is your problem.
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What you don't get is running around to find things to do will tick off your residents when you constantly ask if you can do ****. If you venture out to find **** they will say you were often not present and uninterested. Been there done that. Again wait until you have an inkling of experience before you advise everyone who does have experience
 
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Manual Disimpaction said:
What you don't get is running around to find things to do will tick off your residents when you constantly ask if you can do ****. If you venture out to find **** they will say you were often not present and uninterested. Been there done that. Again wait until you have an inkling of experience before you advise everyone who does have experience
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If you are on a wards based rotation with residents I find it very hard to believe there is nothing constructive to do during the day. There are always discharge summaries, pending labs, social work coordinations that need to be done. If really nothing else can be done to help patient care at the moment then make use of the time for some good old self directed learning.

Nagging residents for direction of what you should do gets old real fast. Your resident needs to know where you are at all times but should not need to be your babysitter all day.
 
Tenk said:
Medicine is a business and a job. Medical school is a school. If you like working your ass off and dealing with complex problems on a daily basis you will probably enjoy a career in medicine. If you are lazy and don't like work, you will probably hate your life until retirement. I see more people who hate work and blame it on medicine without realizing it isn't medicine they hate but just work in general. They would probably be miserable in any field that required the same amount of work. Good luck.
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That's not really true, there are different kinds of work that are equally taxing and some people can tolerate certain things better than others. Doesn't mean they're lazy. I'm not lazy, I have no problem working long hours and dealing with complex problems, I dislike medicine mostly because I don't like the hospital setting and I don't like dealing with patients.
 
Tankstah said:
I just returned from winter break and am sitting in class on my first day back. I am finally accepting that I hate medical school. I hate the bull**** required small group sessions. I'm not interested in the vast majority of what we study after anatomy ended. I have no problem staying above the average at a top 3 program but I don't actually like anything I'm learning. I don't really identify with my classmates though I consider myself a very social person. I still can see myself at the end though. I've spent time with lots of different docs and I like what they do. I can see myself working 60-65 hours a week doing surgery or interventional rads/cardio or something active. I think I would be happy with the end game. The problem is my current situation is miserable. I have no idea how anyone can enjoy this. I keep skipping class to go hang out with real doctors so I can feel like I'm actually making progress toward my career, but I get penalized for this by my program. I'm just hoping I can get some perspective from current practicing doctors. Have any of you felt this way? Is this really a sign that I should pursue something else? Can I hate medical school and enjoy a career in medicine? Thanks for the insight.
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That makes 2 of us
 
chipwhitley said:
That's not really true, there are different kinds of work that are equally taxing and some people can tolerate certain things better than others. Doesn't mean they're lazy. I'm not lazy, I have no problem working long hours and dealing with complex problems, I dislike medicine mostly because I don't like the hospital setting and I don't like dealing with patients.
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Why IM then? Why not path/diag rad? at least you won't deal that much with patients...
 
Goro said:
One can get around this by being proactive and finding things to do. It's possible.
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Exactly this. If you are bored while you're on any rotation because there's nothing to do, then it's mostly your fault. You can ask nurses/residents/attendings to teach you how to do simple procedures, go down to the ED and sew some lacerations, bring a tablet and do some questions, or read up on management algorithms from the last patient you saw. Ask the nurses which other attendings on your service allow students to work with them and go see if they are doing anything you're interested in. The hospital is like an amusement park, all the fun stuff are there, you just have to find it.
 
soop said:
Exactly this. If you are bored while you're on any rotation because there's nothing to do, then it's mostly your fault. You can ask nurses/residents/attendings to teach you how to do simple procedures, go down to the ED and sew some lacerations, bring a tablet and do some questions, or read up on management algorithms from the last patient you saw. Ask the nurses which other attendings on your service allow students to work with them and go see if they are doing anything you're interested in. The hospital is like an amusement park, all the fun stuff are there, you just have to find it.
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Most sane people realize that this makes you annoying as hell. Warranted or not, most people don't enjoy being that guy.
 
SansaStarkMD said:
Most sane people realize that this makes you annoying as hell. Warranted or not, most people don't enjoy being that guy.
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My evals from my preceptors show otherwise.

I'm pretty sure most medical students have no idea how to deal with people who are in a position of power over them. They walk around the hospital halls in a huddled group, scurrying from one place to the next, while avoiding eye contact whenever possible. If you spend time building relationships with nurses/residents/attendings and prove your value, they'll be more than happy to help you. There's a right way and there's a wrong way to ask for something. Prove that you're a team player and that you deserve their time. For example, if you're on surgery/ob, grab your own gloves/scrubs from the supply room before heading to the OR so the scrub tech don't have to get them for you. Read up on the patients before procedures so you don't ask dumb questions like why this patient isn't getting Ancef prophylaxis when she has an anaphylactic reaction to penicillins. Practice closing/knot tying so that when you have that one opportunity to close/suture, your skill and practice shows through and you get more opportunities. Help prep the patient before surgery so the procedure can start quicker. Know when to shut up, when to ask questions, and when it's ok to joke around.

Notice how in this thread it's the medical students who are whiny and are playing the status card against the less experienced while complaining about poor treatment and being bored Whereas the residents/attendings encourages proactivity and self direction. You'll also see this trend throughout SDN.

Medical students are traditionally punching bags because most literally stand around all day with no direction unless directly ordered to do something. Most of us expect interesting learning opportunities to fall into our laps as if we're entitled to it. We expect to be treated like doctors by hospital staff when we're not even qualified to be nurses yet. If you want to break that mold, be proactive, be a team player, and be an interesting person. You'll be surprised how many doors that'll open for you.
 
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soop said:
Exactly this. If you are bored while you're on any rotation because there's nothing to do, then it's mostly your fault. You can ask nurses/residents/attendings to teach you how to do simple procedures, go down to the ED and sew some lacerations, bring a tablet and do some questions, or read up on management algorithms from the last patient you saw. Ask the nurses which other attendings on your service allow students to work with them and go see if they are doing anything you're interested in. The hospital is like an amusement park, all the fun stuff are there, you just have to find it.
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99% of this was not possible on my last rotation. Rotations between schools can vary considerably. Yes, it can fall on the student (I've personally seen it), but crap clerkships where your hands are tied in terms of making them better learning experiences do exist.
 
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soop said:
My evals from my preceptors show otherwise.

I'm pretty sure most medical students have no idea how to deal with people who are in a position of power over them. They walk around the hospital halls in a huddled group, scurrying from one place to the next, while avoiding eye contact whenever possible. If you spend time building relationships with nurses/residents/attendings and prove your value, they'll be more than happy to help you. There's a right way and there's a wrong way to ask for something. Prove that you're a team player and that you deserve their time. For example, if you're on surgery/ob, grab your own gloves/scrubs from the supply room before heading to the OR so the scrub tech don't have to get them for you. Read up on the patients before procedures so you don't ask dumb questions like why this patient isn't getting Ancef prophylaxis when she has an anaphylactic reaction to penicillins. Practice closing/knot tying so that when you have that one opportunity to close/suture, your skill and practice shows through and you get more opportunities. Help prep the patient before surgery so the procedure can start quicker. Know when to shut up, when to ask questions, and when it's ok to joke around.

Notice how in this thread it's the medical students who are whiny and are playing the status card against the less experienced while complaining about poor treatment and being bored Whereas the residents/attendings encourages proactivity and self direction. You'll also see this trend throughout SDN.

Medical students are traditionally punching bags because most literally stand around all day with no direction unless directly ordered to do something. Most of us expect interesting learning opportunities to fall into our laps as if we're entitled to it. We expect to be treated like doctors by hospital staff when we're not even qualified to be nurses yet. If you want to break that mold, be proactive, be a team player, and be an interesting person. You'll be surprised how many doors that'll open for you.
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Paying $15,000+ a semester in tuition equals entitled, got it. How naive of me to expect faculty to demonstrate leadership.
 
SansaStarkMD said:
Paying $15,000+ a semester in tuition equals entitled, got it. How naive of me to expect faculty to demonstrate leadership.
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This is the exact entitled attitude I'm talking about. You're not asking for leadership. You're asking for handouts and to be babysat. Most of your tuition doesn't go to faculty, it goes to malpractice and facilities. You're paying for the opportunity to learn. If you don't want to seek out those opportunities, then it's your own problem.
 
Tankstah said:
I just returned from winter break and am sitting in class on my first day back. I am finally accepting that I hate medical school. I hate the bull**** required small group sessions. I'm not interested in the vast majority of what we study after anatomy ended. I have no problem staying above the average at a top 3 program but I don't actually like anything I'm learning. I don't really identify with my classmates though I consider myself a very social person. I still can see myself at the end though. I've spent time with lots of different docs and I like what they do. I can see myself working 60-65 hours a week doing surgery or interventional rads/cardio or something active. I think I would be happy with the end game. The problem is my current situation is miserable. I have no idea how anyone can enjoy this. I keep skipping class to go hang out with real doctors so I can feel like I'm actually making progress toward my career, but I get penalized for this by my program. I'm just hoping I can get some perspective from current practicing doctors. Have any of you felt this way? Is this really a sign that I should pursue something else? Can I hate medical school and enjoy a career in medicine? Thanks for the insight.
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Preclinical is nothing like what follows. It is a painfully laid foundation of knowledge for the real experience to come.
 
Tankstah said:
I'm the stark opposite of lazy. I think that's why I am having such a problem. I feel like I'm just learning this stuff for learnings sake and I'll never use most of it other than to pass step 1. I don't feel like I'm actually DOING anything. I know just as much as I did 6 months ago about actual medicine. Thanks for the input!
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You don't really do anything for most of 3rd year either, to be honest. You can't enter orders, your notes either are ignored or you don't have to do them, and you aren't responsible for any patients. You are not really a member of the team, and the very best you can do is non-medical (i.e. call people to figure out things about patients, getting faxes of imaging, etc...this is why they are calls CLERKships...because you are essentially a CLERK!). The remainder is just shadowing. This is why you have to do a residency - med school teaches you almost nothing!

Anyone who tells you otherwise just wants to feel better about their clerkships after seeing how useless they were to the team.
 
IonClaws said:
You don't really do anything for most of 3rd year either, to be honest. You can't enter orders, your notes either are ignored or you don't have to do them, and you aren't responsible for any patients. You are not really a member of the team, and the very best you can do is non-medical (i.e. call people to figure out things about patients, getting faxes of imaging, etc...this is why they are calls CLERKships...because you are essentially a CLERK!). The remainder is just shadowing. This is why you have to do a residency - med school teaches you almost nothing!

Anyone who tells you otherwise just wants to feel better about their clerkships after seeing how useless they were to the team.
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I agree to some extent. I thought it was only my school and I have done a couple of aways as a 4th year and I have noticed that 3rd at other schools is not too different from where I am attending school... That's why I am proposing 18 + 18 months preclinical and clerkship. Cut down that BS to 3 years, which will save students a lot of money in term of not spending an extra 60k+ for tuition and living expenses, and opportunity cost.
 
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