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[Robin-jay]

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I would suggest not trying to use them.

You've said nothing productive to answer OPs question so just move on.

My advice: Talk to a lawyer/attorney. Talk to medical schools and state medical boards.

 

[Goro]

I'm going to be honest, where I read "arrest", I cringe.

When I read "two arrests", I cringe even more.

When I read ""two arrests for crimes against a person", then I auto-think "rejection"


HOWEVER! Not all schools ask about arrests, only convictions.

I'm much in Dokermom's camp in thinking about your situation. Very bad choices, but dismissal and expungement chalk up some pluses for your side. You may need to explain this in the "anything else you wanna tell us?" prompt, or the "tell us about how you overcame adversity" prompt. Be prepared to explain this and own it.

A life of exemplary behavior, especially if holding positions of responsibility, will also help.

I also agree that your poor academics are more lethal right now that your legal issues.

 

[JonathanHusky]

An applicant with violence against multiple partners is NOT good. You will mostly likely have to disclose this to medical schools on a secondary, or at some point.

Your chances are most likely not good. And there's a reason for that.

Plus, I would not want my academic colleagues with a violent record next to me (or my physician either).

There were many times I was alone with a single girl/guy or two in my chemistry lab around 1 am. I want to feel safe too.

If they let in someone with a violent record of multiple instances, and I end up getting injured (maybe they're my partner for a project), that's a problem.

My advice: Talk to a lawyer/attorney. Talk to medical schools and state medical boards.

I'm not saying OP is or isn't violent. Rather, a violent record exists.

lol just b/c someone has been in situations where they've had to use self defense, you wouldn't feel comfortable/safe around them? what are you thinking is gonna happen in that hypothetical scenario where you're alone w/ someone in a lab late at night? you're gonna turn around and out of the blue, they're just gonna sock you in the face or something? I def think you're blowing this "violent record" thing way out of proportion

 

[deleted804295]

lol just b/c someone has been in situations where they've had to use self defense, you wouldn't feel comfortable/safe around them? what are you thinking is gonna happen in that hypothetical scenario where you're alone w/ someone in a lab late at night? you're gonna turn around and out of the blue, they're just gonna sock you in the face or something? I def think you're blowing this "violent record" thing way out of proportion

It says something about her character. I grew up in a household where sibling fights were common but after a certain age I grew measures that prevented physical confrontation so that I didn't inflict serious injury on my siblings and so that I wouldn't get cops involved.

@DokterMom went over some of these preventative measures such as deescalation and leaving the room completely.

OP didn't have to fight, she chose to. The reason why I think she wasn't abused and the opposite occurred is because she clearly stated something along the lines of having to make sure the boyfriend couldn't hurt her more- aka severely injuring her boyfriend.

Two abusive boyfriends wouldn't have allowed a woman to hurt them and not inflict more pain on the woman. Clear biology indicates that the man would have won in an actual fight 9 times out of 10.

I didn't state this earlier because OP could have been actually abused but things just aren't adding up.

 

[Robin-jay]

lol just b/c someone has been in situations where they've had to use self defense, you wouldn't feel comfortable/safe around them? what are you thinking is gonna happen in that hypothetical scenario where you're alone w/ someone in a lab late at night? you're gonna turn around and out of the blue, they're just gonna sock you in the face or something? I def think you're blowing this "violent record" thing way out of proportion

Disclaimer: *Not saying OP is violent, just saying a violent record exists*

So, there's a lot of speculation in your post.

1.) The OP didn't say a stranger came up out of nowhere and self-defense was the only way to solve the problem. That's completely different and you know it.

2.) Being in a relationship with two different people where I would have to require self-defense TWICE?

3.) The law probably wouldn't be so harsh on someone who "had" to use self-defense as a last resort.

4.) If a guy you know had "simple assault" and "domestic charges", I'd hope you would feel worried about spending night time at 1 am with them too. You don't think they could perhaps be easier to set off? Maybe have violent tendencies? Etc.?

Ok, if you don't think its a big deal, find someone with multiple violent charges and spend night time alone with them. I bet you would feel so safe.

 

[Psai]

Yes, I appreciate the hard work which will be required, and the long road I have ahead of me. I by no means believe this shall be easy. And yes, unfortunately, in my naivete (as the old trope goes "blinded by love") I got involved in two consecutive abusive relationships with men who over the course expressed clear and relatively consistent signs of abuse (verbal abuse, manipulation, controlling behavior, etc.), signs that I rationalized in my own mind because I wanted to believe that the man I loved was good. Unfortunately, 1/3 of women are physically assaulted by an intimate partner in their lifetime. Sadly, I was unlucky, and also quite naive.

The justice system is also highly imperfect and non-guilty individuals can be arrested (cross-accusations are an extremely common occurrence in domestic assault cases, in which both parties are actually charged and almost always ends in dismissal on both sides). Also, in states in which an officer arriving for a DV complaint *must* choose a primary aggressor and arrest them, the wrong person can be arrested quite easily. The officers do not have the full story and did not witness the event.

Thank you for the ending kind words. I am decidedly taking extreme caution with partners in the future. I do not wish what happened to me upon anyone - not simply surviving a DV incident, but subsequently being arrested and treated with suspicion for your own assault. It's extremely invalidating and makes healing all the more difficult. I'm not dating anyone for a long long while, and when I choose to do so again, I will be leaving them immediately upon the first sign of abuse. These were incredibly painful lessons to learn, and my only concern now moving forward is whether my naivete and poor judgment has utterly destroyed my chances at becoming a physician.

Let's be real here, there's a pattern of behavior. If all of your exes somehow turn out to be crazy and no one else seems to have this problem...

Also, when it comes to domestic violence, every authority is on the side of the woman by default. This is for good reason as men are more often the aggressor but if you're getting accused equally, that makes your story very suspect.

 

[deleted729041]

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[DokterMom]

Best of luck to you -- It may be a longish road, but there's good stuff along the way and a great reward at the end.

 

[Robin-jay]

I've taken a lot of time to process all this information. Thank you to all who responded providing helpful and honest advice, especially the adcoms who have taken the time out to weigh in on this. I've been accepted to a few SMPs and will be attending for 1 year starting this fall. After that, I plan on applying to MD programs, and following @DokterMom 's thought about only submitting secondaries that ask about convictions but NOT arrests. I am soothed by the idea that a medical licensing board would not refuse to license me for arrests which did not result in convictions. I do have to think deeply about my situations and why they occurred. I contributed to the escalation of these situations and cannot absolve myself completely of blame. I did get deeply emotionally involved with abusive men, and rather than de-escalating/diffusing in aggressive situations, I stood my ground/fought back. I'm going to contemplate my role in these events and how to grow from this as I complete my SMP and work in the year after the SMP. I'm going to do all I can to improve myself and atone for my own wrongdoing. I'm striving to do so everyday.

Ok, but have you talked to ADCOMs about the situation in depth? You may be doing an SMP and wasting money if you haven't.

I just have a hard time seeing ADCOMs being forgiving of 2 domestic violent assaults, so you have to make sure they will be forgiving, and you do that by talking to them.

 

[Robin-jay]

Best of luck to you -- It may be a longish road, but there's good stuff along the way and a great reward at the end.

Would you give the same encouraging words to a male that domestically assaulted 2 different women, and had the criminal record of doing so?

I'm not judging the OP, as I hope they do well. But lets be realistic.

 

[DokterMom]

Would you give the same encouraging words to a male that domestically assaulted 2 different women, and had the criminal record of doing so?

I'm not judging the OP, as I hope they do well. But lets be realistic.

I would hope that anyone in that position, male or female, would be willing and able to do the therapy, introspection and self-improvement needed to break the cycle of domestic violence and find better ways to resolve conflict -- then have the opportunity to succeed in life and share their wisdom. I have seen people learn, grow and change, and I believe that those people who can and do deserve a second chance. I also believe that a physician who truly understands the dynamics of volatile intimate partner relationships can be a tremendous asset to his/her colleagues and patients.

Whether that results in a med school acceptance or not for the OP remains to be seen. If it doesn't, I guess you could argue that the SMP was wasted. But the therapy, introspection and emotional hard work never will be.

 

[Robin-jay]

I would hope that anyone in that position, male or female, would be willing and able to do the therapy, introspection and self-improvement needed to break the cycle of domestic violence and find better ways to resolve conflict -- then have the opportunity to succeed in life and share their wisdom.

I 100% agree with this.

I have seen people learn, grow and change, and I believe that those people who can and do deserve a second chance.

I 100% think people with a blemish on their record such as a IA, misdemeanor, and even some felonies should get a second chance. i'm one of the most forgiving people on these forums.

However, the OP already had a second chance. They committed domestic violence, and then did it again to a different individual. That's where I personally draw the line.

This would be the OPs third chance to not have a domestic violent attack.

Also, do you want your physician to have multiple domestic violent arrests?

As a medical student, it terrifies me that I could be alone in a medical research lab at midnight with an individual with multiple violent assaults.

I also believe that a physician who truly understands the dynamics of volatile intimate partner relationships can be a tremendous asset to his/her colleagues and patients.

I think a physician who understands this is fine. I think a physician who commits multiple domestic assaults is dangerous. Sorry, that's my genuine belief.

Whether that results in a med school acceptance or not for the OP remains to be seen. If it doesn't, I guess you could argue that the SMP was wasted. But the therapy, introspection and emotional hard work never will be.

The SMP will be 99.9% a waste, and that's 60-100k (with interest) down the drain for the OP. Unless she speaks to an ADCOM about her situation and they say "we will forgive your multiple violent assaults if you do well in our program", then its a waste of money.

I don't want to see the OP waste time and money for an unobtainable goal. I encourage the OP talk to ADCOMs and get the okay before wasting time and money on an SMP.

 

[Robin-jay]

I did get deeply emotionally involved with abusive men, and rather than de-escalating/diffusing in aggressive situations, I stood my ground/fought back. I'm going to contemplate my role in these events and how to grow from this as I complete my SMP and work in the year after the SMP. I'm going to do all I can to improve myself and atone for my own wrongdoing. I'm striving to do so everyday.

The first step in growing from this situation is to take blame for your actions.

You blamed the men in this post, not yourself for your poor actions.

It would look much better for you to admit fault rather to place blame to ADCOMs.

 

[deleted804295]

I've taken a lot of time to process all this information. Thank you to all who responded providing helpful and honest advice, especially the adcoms who have taken the time out to weigh in on this. I've been accepted to a few SMPs and will be attending for 1 year starting this fall. After that, I plan on applying to MD programs, and following @DokterMom 's thought about only submitting secondaries that ask about convictions but NOT arrests. I am soothed by the idea that a medical licensing board would not refuse to license me for arrests which did not result in convictions. I do have to think deeply about my situations and why they occurred. I contributed to the escalation of these situations and cannot absolve myself completely of blame. I did get deeply emotionally involved with abusive men, and rather than de-escalating/diffusing in aggressive situations, I stood my ground/fought back. I'm going to contemplate my role in these events and how to grow from this as I complete my SMP and work in the year after the SMP. I'm going to do all I can to improve myself and atone for my own wrongdoing. I'm striving to do so everyday.

I appreciate the sincerity and maturity in your post. I wish you luck on your journey ahead and look forward to you growing from these experiences. Please do not lose track of your current mental state and remind yourself daily to better yourself and keep yourself safe.

 

[deleted729041]

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[Tenk]

Hello, sorry to resurrect this year-old thread. I finished my master's program and earned a 4.0, so I'm feeling more confident about my academic situation (though I recognize that my poor undergrad GPA will remain an obstacle I must overcome). Now going into this application cycle, I do worry about the future. I will follow the earlier advice about applying broadly and not submitting secondaries that ask about arrests. However, down the line, I worry that these arrests might come up when applying for security clearance during hospital rotations. I was wondering if anyone has any advice on whether hospital background checks show arrests or only convictions? I do not want to get into medical school and get through 2 years, only to be dismissed because of my past, left with nothing but massive debt. If it would be more appropriate to make a new thread for this, I can do so. Thank you in advance.

Medical school is probably the most selective checkpoint in terms of criminal activity and if your background check is clean and you’ve never been sued, you are fine.

 

[Justice1071]

Hello, sorry to resurrect this year-old thread. I finished my master's program and earned a 4.0, so I'm feeling more confident about my academic situation (though I recognize that my poor undergrad GPA will remain an obstacle I must overcome). Now going into this application cycle, I do worry about the future. I will follow the earlier advice about applying broadly and not submitting secondaries that ask about arrests. However, down the line, I worry that these arrests might come up when applying for security clearance during hospital rotations. I was wondering if anyone has any advice on whether hospital background checks show arrests or only convictions? I do not want to get into medical school and get through 2 years, only to be dismissed because of my past, left with nothing but massive debt. If it would be more appropriate to make a new thread for this, I can do so. Thank you in advance.

So from experience, at least in a certain state, if you were "charged" (arrested) for a crime, it will show up on your record. This is including if the charge was dismissed (even before the court date). So I would definitely start looking into my past if I were you, whether it be online, a police department, magistrates office, or get a background check on yourself from a reputable company. If the "charges" do appear then you could start the process of expunging those charges from you record by hiring a lawyer, or filling out the necessary paperwork yourself (after you've educated yourself on the process). However, the sooner you do this the better due to the process taking a few months, even up to 6 months or more. Also once it's expunged it can't be brought up or found, so you wouldn't have to worry about it being an issue later.
side note: some states have different timelines as to when things can be expunged from your record so I would investigate that as well once you see what your record shows. So to answer your question: Yes normally an arrest or "charge" will appear on a background check, NOW how med schools view these I cannot advise, but I don't think it'll look good imo.
hope this helps.

 

[Robin-jay]

Hello, sorry to resurrect this year-old thread. I finished my master's program and earned a 4.0, so I'm feeling more confident about my academic situation (though I recognize that my poor undergrad GPA will remain an obstacle I must overcome). Now going into this application cycle, I do worry about the future. I will follow the earlier advice about applying broadly and not submitting secondaries that ask about arrests. However, down the line, I worry that these arrests might come up when applying for security clearance during hospital rotations. I was wondering if anyone has any advice on whether hospital background checks show arrests or only convictions? I do not want to get into medical school and get through 2 years, only to be dismissed because of my past, left with nothing but massive debt. If it would be more appropriate to make a new thread for this, I can do so. Thank you in advance.

I'm still pretty sure you will have to answer that you were arrested on the primary application.

The arrests could come up during the medical school application, rotations, residencies, and applying for physician employment. States vary. You would have to have adequate legal personnel answer these complex questions. Someone with an actual law degree.

 

[lalalallala]

I think you should get a Certiphi background check and see what is says. The first isn't relevant if it was sealed - that shouldn't be on the report. I think the question is whether the dismissed one will show up. If it does, I think you should argue it and say that dismissed charges shouldn't be listed on the report. Not that this is the same but I had a misdemeanor driving ticket that was dismissed and it showed up on the background report and I fought with them about it because I was like why are you putting dismissed things on the report and they took it off.

 

[Detailfanatic]

OP: I had an arrest for an incident where I had to defend myself after I had submitted my primary but before secondaries. about half of my secondaries asked for just convictions and the others asked for pending charges (like in my case because my charges hadn't been dropped by the time I submitted secondaries). I got into 4 schools (2 which asked about pending charges and 2 that did not). I updated them as soon as the charges got dropped which was like 2 weeks after submitting secondaries and I was ok at the end of the cycle. there is hope. our situations aren't identical but its not the end of the world. PM me if you wanna talk more

EDIT: it was for misdemeanor battery and I was incorrectly arrested and this was proven to be the case (that’s why charges got dropped). I also got a substantial scholarship from one of the schools that knew about the arrest. Hope is not completely lost OP!

 

[deleted729041]

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[deleted729041]

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[Goro]

@Goro

If you granted me a conditional acceptance and later saw my dismissed charges on the CBC, would you rescind the acceptance? What would be the next step?

Not my call...up to the Dean, and the school's lawyers.

 

[deleted729041]

Thank you Goro and the others for your responses.