Applying to med school with a misdemeanor arrest

[throwaway2023]

A little backstory. I’ve recently decided to try to pursue med school. I’m currently an RRT and was previously going to get my RN with hopes to progress into a mid level role, but I knew deep down that’s not what I wanted. I decided to just go for it and if I didn’t get in I could at least say I tried.

Anyway, I was looking into the amcas and I saw that I didn’t need to admit to anything in the “red flag section” that had been expunged, non adjudicated, sealed etc. In 2013 I was pulled over for speeding and window tint and given a DUI for blowing a .02. I was under 21 though so it was illegal to have any alcohol in my system even though .08 is the legal limit. I had drank at a friends house the night before and stayed the night there so I didn’t have to drive. Unfortunately, alcohol was still in my system the next morning when leaving which I obviously didn’t know and the cop smelled it on me since I hadn’t showered. So I hired a lawyer went to court etc and the DUI charge was non adjudicated and removed from my record due to having no previous violations, but I was still required to pay the tickets for tint and speeding and those would remain on my record. When my record is pulled now it shows an arrest in 2013 but only says for misdemeanor speeding and window tint.

My question is should I state that I was arrested for speeding and window tint and leave it at that? Or should I explain the whole story and give schools the info of the past dui even though they won’t see that part on my record?

Thanks for any help anyone could provide.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[GoSpursGo]

So if I understand what non-adjudication means, it sounds like you plead guilty but aren't convicted, you go on some probation, and eventually the charge is dismissed and you can eventually get it expunged. If that is all true and the charge is now either dismissed and/or expunged, then I see no upside to disclosing this information.

 

[Goro]

You'll be fine

 

[throwaway2023]

So if I understand what non-adjudication means, it sounds like you plead guilty but aren't convicted, you go on some probation, and eventually the charge is dismissed and you can eventually get it expunged. If that is all true and the charge is now either dismissed and/or expunged, then I see no upside to disclosing this information.

That is exactly how it was handled. I just didn’t want to be auto rejected from every school when they see the letters “dui”, but I also didn’t want to seem shady or like I had an integrity issue by not including certain information.

 

[throwaway2023]

You'll be fine

Is your advice to leave out the dui part or to include it?

 

[Goro]

Sounds like it can be excluded

 

[SpoiledMilk]

If you pulled your own criminal background records and it shows an arrest and misdemeanor currently, this means that you will need to contact the criminal defense attorney who helped you with your case or another criminal attorney in your state and ask them if you qualify for a non-disclosure or expungement of your arrest and criminal record. If you do, then I would highly recommended hiring the attorney again to get the court order of non-disclosure or expungement. IF approved by the court, when a school or you run your criminal background, nothing will show up.

 

[throwaway2023]

If you pulled your own criminal background records and it shows an arrest and misdemeanor currently, this means that you will need to contact the criminal defense attorney who helped you with your case or another criminal attorney in your state and ask them if you qualify for a non-disclosure or expungement of your arrest and criminal record. If you do, then I would highly recommended hiring the attorney again to get the court order of non-disclosure or expungement. IF approved by the court, when a school or you run your criminal background, nothing will show up.

I’ve gotten a background check from the fbi website as well as from the hospitals I’ve worked at. It shows a misdemeanor arrest on the date of the dui but it only shows I was charged with speeding and window tint. No dui is shown anywhere on my record.

 

[GoSpursGo]

If you pulled your own criminal background records and it shows an arrest and misdemeanor currently, this means that you will need to contact the criminal defense attorney who helped you with your case or another criminal attorney in your state and ask them if you qualify for a non-disclosure or expungement of your arrest and criminal record. If you do, then I would highly recommended hiring the attorney again to get the court order of non-disclosure or expungement. IF approved by the court, when a school or you run your criminal background, nothing will show up.

I think the point is that the felony (DUI) was dismissed/expunged, and the record now only includes two low-level misdemeanors (speeding and window tint). I would probably just disclose the misdemeanors, nobody is going to care about those low-level traffic violations from 10 years ago. In many states those wouldn't even be misdemeanors.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Nothing prevents OP from voluntarily disclosing the misdemeanors in the future to a school, employer, etc. If OP wants to do a thorough cleansing of his arrest records and misdemeanors, then getting an order of non-disclosure or even better, an expungement, will bring about more peace of mind.

Additionally, future questions might ask OP to explain the details of the arrest and misdemeanors. Then regardless of whether the DUI was non-adjudicated, OP would have to honestly explain that the arrest and misdemeanors resulted from a DUI. Therefore, to prevent the possibility of this scenario, a non-disclosure and/or expungement would be ideal.

 

[throwaway2023]

I actually just pulled up my old background checks from my previous jobs. They did them through "certiphi" and "precheck" and they both show clear on my record. The only time I have been able to see anything on my record has been when I requested one from the FBI website, but even that only shows "Arrest: misdemeanor speeding and window tint". I'm not sure what med schools use for background checks.

 

[theoceanman]

Is your advice to leave out the dui part or to include it?

I would include it because the background check that medical schools may run may have that DUI included, who knows what they will use or when they will find out.

Regardless, it's been 10 years exactly and you've probably done a lot of things to showcase your character in a better light, AKA reinvention, so you will be fine for medical schools. Sure, some random T20 medical school might screen you out for it, but in the wider scope of things and applying to medical schools in general, you're perfectly fine. Best of luck to your future cycle!

 

[SpoiledMilk]

You gotta think long term, like after graduation from medschool, and applying for residency, state license or medical liability insurance, DEA licenses, etc. There will be questions on those applications asking for arrests and a thorough explanation. For state med licenses, you will have to disclosure everything regardless of the whether you get a non-disclosure or expungement.

But for medical liability insurance questionnaires and the Match, if you fear that your residency app will be weeded out on initial reading because of the arrests and misdemeanors, then the best peace of mind for you is to have an order on non-disclosure or even better, an expungement. A criminal attorney in your state will detail to you the benefits of both when it comes to answering those precisely worded questions.

I would do this if I was in your situation. But it's your call. GL.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Nothing prevents OP from voluntarily disclosing the misdemeanors in the future to a school, employer, etc. If OP wants to do a thorough cleansing of his arrest records and misdemeanors, then getting an order of non-disclosure or even better, an expungement, will bring about more peace of mind.

Additionally, future questions might ask OP to explain the details of the arrest and misdemeanors. Then regardless of whether the DUI was non-adjudicated, OP would have to honestly explain that the arrest and misdemeanors resulted from a DUI. Therefore, to prevent the possibility of this scenario, a non-disclosure and/or expungement would be ideal.

What makes you say this? If asked to give details on the arrest/misdemeanor, it seems clear that the answer is "in the state that I was in, this offense resulted in a misdemeanor related to speeding and window tint. In the 10 years since I have learned from the experience and have not repeated the offense." If the bar is going to be that you have to disclose things even if they have been dismissed or expunged, then I'm not sure what going through the trouble of getting the misdemeanors expunged would do to help.

I would include it because the background check that medical schools may run may have that DUI included, who knows what they will use or when they will find out.

This is bad advice. The AMCAS applicants guide explicitly says you don't have to disclose this:

Felony
You must indicate whether you have ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a felony crime, excluding (1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, (2) convictions that have been expunged or sealed by a court (in states where applicable), and (3) any offense you are not required to disclose pursuant to a state-specific law (refer to state-specific notifications below

Misdemeanor
You must indicate whether you have ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a misdemeanor crime, excluding (1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, (2) any convictions that have been expunged or sealed by a court, (3) any misdemeanor convictions for which you completed any probation and for which the court dismissed the case (in states where applicable), and (4) any offense you are not required to disclose pursuant to a state-specific law (refer to statespecific notifications below
Felonies or Misdemeanors You Do Not Need to Disclos
You need not disclose any instance of a felony or misdemeanor crime in which you wer
• Arrested but not charged.
• Arrested and charged, with the charges pending.
• Arrested and charged, with the charges dropped.
• Arrested and charged but found not guilty by a judge or jury.
• Arrested and found guilty by a judge or jury, with the conviction overturned on appeal.
• Arrested and found guilty but received an executive pardon.

This is in stark contrast to the Institutional Action section, which says you have to disclose things even if they have been expunged:

If you were ever the recipient of any institutional action by any college or medical school for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violation, you must answer Yes to the question about institutional action, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. Furthermore, select Yes even if the action does not appear on, or has been deleted or expunged from, your official transcripts as a consequence of institutional policy or personal petition. Examples of institutional actions include, but are not limited to, academic probation, academic standing warnings, suspension, residence hall policy violations, and ethics policy violations

Is it possible that the question could come up differently on a future state medical board licensing application? Absolutely. Is it possible that you might be asked about this and need to disclose on a secondary application? Sure. But you can answer these questions down the road. In the meantime, there is no good reason to raise a red flag on yourself at this stage if you don't need to.

There is nothing unethical about answering the questions that you are asked truthfully.

 

[theoceanman]

What makes you say this? If asked to give details on the arrest/misdemeanor, it seems clear that the answer is "in the state that I was in, this offense resulted in a misdemeanor related to speeding and window tint. In the 10 years since I have learned from the experience and have not repeated the offense." If the bar is going to be that you have to disclose things even if they have been dismissed or expunged, then I'm not sure what going through the trouble of getting the misdemeanors expunged would do to help.

This is bad advice. The AMCAS applicants guide explicitly says you don't have to disclose this:



This is in stark contrast to the Institutional Action section, which says you have to disclose things even if they have been expunged:



Is it possible that the question could come up differently on a future state medical board licensing application? Absolutely. Is it possible that you might be asked about this and need to disclose on a secondary application? Sure. But you can answer these questions down the road. In the meantime, there is no good reason to raise a red flag on yourself at this stage if you don't need to.

There is nothing unethical about answering the questions that you are asked truthfully.

I was going off of my own state rules, my mistake, as DUI's are felonies in my state.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

What makes you say this? If asked to give details on the arrest/misdemeanor, it seems clear that the answer is "in the state that I was in, this offense resulted in a misdemeanor related to speeding and window tint. In the 10 years since I have learned from the experience and have not repeated the offense."

The offense that resulted in the arrest and misdemeanor is from OP's original writing, "a DUI for blowing a .02. I was under 21 though so it was illegal to have any alcohol in my system even though .08 is the legal limit. I had drank at a friends house the night before and stayed the night there so I didn’t have to drive. Unfortunately, alcohol was still in my system the next morning when leaving which I obviously didn’t know and the cop smelled it on me since I hadn’t showered." This is the details that OP will have to honestly disclosure for precisely worded questions asking to explain the hit from the CBC.

If the bar is going to be that you have to disclose things even if they have been dismissed or expunged, then I'm not sure what going through the trouble of getting the misdemeanors expunged would do to help.

Getting an order of non-disclosure / expungement will ensure that when OP's record is pulled, the arrest and misdemeanors do not show up. So when OP decides to answer a question asking about arrests, misdemeanors, etc in the neg, they won't have to fear that a CBC will show up with a record that conflicts with their answer.

It's just another level of insurance, and well worth the cost for peace of mind. JMHO.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I was going off of my own state rules, my mistake, as DUI's are felonies in my state.

DUI is felony in just about every state. But this would fall under the category of a felony where the charges were dropped, which AMCAS says you don't have to disclose.

The offense that resulted in the arrest and misdemeanor is from OP's original writing, "a DUI for blowing a .02. I was under 21 though so it was illegal to have any alcohol in my system even though .08 is the legal limit. I had drank at a friends house the night before and stayed the night there so I didn’t have to drive. Unfortunately, alcohol was still in my system the next morning when leaving which I obviously didn’t know and the cop smelled it on me since I hadn’t showered." This is the details that OP will have to honestly disclosure for precisely worded questions asking to explain the hit from the CBC.



Getting an order of non-disclosure / expungement will ensure that when OP's record is pulled, the arrest and misdemeanors do not show up. So when OP decides to answer a question asking about arrests, misdemeanors, etc in the neg, they won't have to fear that a CBC will show up with a record that conflicts with their answer.

It's just another level of insurance, and well worth the cost for peace of mind. JMHO.

I don't have any real legal expertise so I won't speculate on the utility of this for eventual medical license. I don't think it is necessary for the medical school application process.

 

[xffan624]

DUI is felony in just about every state. But this would fall under the category of a felony where the charges were dropped, which AMCAS says you don't have to disclose.

I don't have any real legal expertise so I won't speculate on the utility of this for eventual medical license. I don't think it is necessary for the medical school application process.

Most states actually have a first time DUI as a misdemeanor. A repeat DUI can definitely be a felony.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Most states actually have a first time DUI as a misdemeanor. A repeat DUI can definitely be a felony.

Huh I learned something new today! Thanks.

 

[Med Ed]

For state med licenses, you will have to disclosure everything regardless of the whether you get a non-disclosure or expungement.

Not entirely true. Some states ask about arrests, some ask only about convictions, some explicitly state that you don't have to disclose expunged/sealed offenses, others explicitly state that you do. A few limit their inquires about non-felonies to only the last 7 years. 50 states + DC = 51 ways of doing things.