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Robin-jay said:
You can make an argument that DUI's were harder to avoid back in the "old days", as you can also make an argument they were given out "less" and under "higher BAC" levels.

Times may have changed, attitudes may have changed, but the consequences didn't.

DUI consequences = fatal
Smoking pot consequences = non-fatal
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Stagg737 said:
Times have changed, and so should the expectations and consequences of receiving a DUI in the eyes of admissions committees. Other things that were acceptable 40-50 years ago when ADCOMs were young like using the N word or sexual misconduct would be at least auto-rejects today or far worse. Plus it's hypocritical for people to say they "take crimes against people and property very seriously" then turn around and say that DUIs can just be chalked up to being young and dumb. It's a BS double standard and the "young and stupid" excuse for a crime often worthy of jail time is absolute crap.
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When you get to be Faculty, and join the Adcom, then you can apply your more stringent standards.

Look, I'm a guy with a family, and fully know that drunk driver kill families like mine. But having done am instance of DUI when I should have known better, I can cut some slack for someone who also made an impaired choice. But cheating is willful misconduct.
 
Goro said:
When you get to be Faculty, and join the Adcom, then you can apply your more stringent standards.

Look, I'm a guy with a family, and fully know that drunk driver kill families like mine. But having done am instance of DUI when I should have known better, I can cut some slack for someone who also made an impaired choice. But cheating is willful misconduct.
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I wouldn't say "stringent". Just a little bit "different".

I think we can all emphasize with people in similar situations.

But I do think taking the drink, and then driving impaired, is similar to saying "I took a drink, then threw a brick through the window, but I was impaired" type of excuse.

If I had a DUI, I would probably be more likely to cut someone with a DUI more slack.
If I had cheated, I would probably be more likely to cut someone who cheated with more slack.

I still think DUI's consequences are more severe than cheating because of death and all, but that's just my opinion.

I think it would actually be best to have ADCOM members with different perspectives on I.A.'s so that each applicant gets their fair chance of redemption somewhere.

If your school had cheating DOA and DUI's has a possible acceptance, then that's fine. Just as long as there are schools out there that have redeeming possibilities for cheaters and have DUI's DOA.

I guess my main point in this thread is not to say cheating should be DOA, or that DUI should be DOA, but rather both should be redeemable at some school or another. People make mistakes. Therefore, they should be redeemable somewhere.
 
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Goro said:
When you get to be Faculty, and join the Adcom, then you can apply your more stringent standards.

Look, I'm a guy with a family, and fully know that drunk driver kill families like mine. But having done am instance of DUI when I should have known better, I can cut some slack for someone who also made an impaired choice. But cheating is willful misconduct.
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So...you made a poor choice, and that means you should cut some slack to people who make the same terrible choice? Sorry, but that doesn’t compute.
 
Goro said:
When you get to be Faculty, and join the Adcom, then you can apply your more stringent standards.

Look, I'm a guy with a family, and fully know that drunk driver kill families like mine. But having done am instance of DUI when I should have known better, I can cut some slack for someone who also made an impaired choice. But cheating is willful misconduct.
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As simple as things would be in a black-and-white world, things are rarely that easy. I agree that some slack can be cut in some instances. In my "severity of the crime" algorithm, DUI that resulted in significant harm/death > willful academic misconduct > single incident of DUI that didn't result in an accident. (Remember, that's just my personal math, and it's from the standpoint of one who never consumes alcohol.) Our legal system takes a similar stance, treating DUI more or less harshly depending on whether there's been loss of life or property. One might say that's unfair since many external factors -- including luck -- may make one episode of intoxicated driving so much more harmful than another. Maybe so, but life is full of injustices great and small. All we can do is decide how much risk we're willing to accept and choose our actions accordingly.

Edit: As I said this morning, though, the changing social acceptability of DUI and the availability of so many transportation options today make me think we should be shifting how we think about DUI. I can cut some slack for a poor decision while impaired (albeit less slack than I would have cut in the days before Uber and Lyft), and less for one made with total control of one's faculties.
 
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HomeSkool said:
Our legal system takes a similar stance, treating DUI more or less harshly depending on whether there's been loss of life or property.
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Unfortunately, someone who commits a DUI without loss of life or property and gets a lenient punishment is more likely to do it again, which is just another chance to kill someone. But that’s a digression.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
So...you made a poor choice, and that means you should cut some slack to people who make the same terrible choice? Sorry, but that doesn’t compute.
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Agreed. I really do like @Goro and I respect him as a father, elder, and adcom but I feel as though many of the mistakes adcoms are willing to find acceptable are mistakes they have already committed.

At the end of the day admissions come down to empathy and like I've said on a different IA thread what one adcom might be forgivable towards, another will give harsh judgements against.
 
Academic dishonesty is usually the kiss of death. Why? Physicians that end up committing fraud or doing really stupid things that endanger or kill patients don't suddenly start doing it from the day they became an MD or DO. It starts a long time earlier.

That homework assignment is tough, I'll copy the answers from Chegg. No big deal.
I don't want to memorize all of those terms for the exam. I'll just write them on a note card and slip them out of my hoodie pocket. No big deal.
I accidentally forgot to do the neuro portion of the exam for the patient. I'll just make up the results. No big deal.
I didn't counsel the patient on smoking cessation, but decided to put it on the chart anyway since it will pay me an extra $20 and no one will find out. No big deal.
I left early without telling anyone and was supposed to see the patient in the ED. My attending called asking me where I was and said I was in the ED. He was actually calling me from there. I got fired.
I got in bed with a home health agency where we were billing Medicare for services that were never performed. I went to prison.
I forgot to ask about allergies in the H&P but decided to give the patient Zosyn anyway. They had a penicillin allergy and died.

One thing leads to another. Things start small. Not all IAs are created equal. Getting caught with booze in your dorm is not the same as academic dishonesty. Not all misdemeanors are considered equal either. Getting caught speeding in Texas where any speeding ticket is considered a misdemeanor is not the same as misdemeanor battery. To top it off, it only makes things worse when people are sorry about getting caught, not about committing the action itself.

Consider yourself lucky you weren't expelled, which can happen to people that are caught cheating. It'll give you a shot at finishing and hopefully finding a nice paying job if you're early enough in the process to change out your major and focus.
 
Question for @Goro,

How would you look at this situation if it had turned into an IA:

My first semester freshman year, I took a research class and we had to write a paper about our project. My friend and I were worked on our intro together because everyone's project was about the same topic. For the intro, we used the same source and the same quotes (fully cited and everything). In the end, to be completely candid, our intros were very similar because we used the same quotes, however the rest of the paper was different because we didn't do the same experiment. We turn our papers in and a week later we both get an email from the professor saying she has discovered plagiarism and according to the syllabus and student code of conduct its against the rules ect ect. We email back and ask to meet with her and explain everything. We meet and explain what happened, she says it doesn't matter we're not in high school anymore, but she'll look through the rest of our papers and if they are similar she's gonna report us to the dean of students and let him deal with it. In the end, she didn't find anything else, gave us a 0 just on the intro part, and didn't report us. I have a great relationship with the professor now and I definitely learned early on to work on stuff alone.

My question is, if she had decided to report us to the dean just based on the intro and I got an IA, would that derail my application or would it be seen as a lesson learned as a first semester freshman?
 
Nathan17182 said:
Question for @Goro,

How would you look at this situation if it had turned into an IA:

My first semester freshman year, I took a research class and we had to write a paper about our project. My friend and I were worked on our intro together because everyone's project was about the same topic. For the intro, we used the same source and the same quotes (fully cited and everything). In the end, to be completely candid, our intros were very similar because we used the same quotes, however the rest of the paper was different because we didn't do the same experiment. We turn our papers in and a week later we both get an email from the professor saying she has discovered plagiarism and according to the syllabus and student code of conduct its against the rules ect ect. We email back and ask to meet with her and explain everything. We meet and explain what happened, she says it doesn't matter we're not in high school anymore, but she'll look through the rest of our papers and if they are similar she's gonna report us to the dean of students and let him deal with it. In the end, she didn't find anything else, gave us a 0 just on the intro part, and didn't report us. I have a great relationship with the professor now and I definitely learned early on to work on stuff alone.

My question is, if she had decided to report us to the dean just based on the intro and I got an IA, would that derail my application or would it be seen as a lesson learned as a first semester freshman?
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I tend to be a tad more lenient at times with plagiarism issues. How you owned it would greatly influence my decision.
 
Goro said:
Wonderful thing, that Ignore function. Applying it now. You'll feel some slight pressure between the ears.
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Wow generally I view your harsh advice as just blunt advice with good intentions, it turns out you're just a horrible person. I'm glad to see your morals are so dispicable that you can actually sympathize with people that made the same horrible mistake as you that kills thousands of people per year. Would you forgive other applicants committing other crimes impaired? Sexual Assault maybe? Don't worry about ignoring me, I've already taken care of that for you. You should feel some slight pressure between your ears.
 
Goro said:
When you get to be Faculty, and join the Adcom, then you can apply your more stringent standards.

Look, I'm a guy with a family, and fully know that drunk driver kill families like mine. But having done am instance of DUI when I should have known better, I can cut some slack for someone who also made an impaired choice. But cheating is willful misconduct.
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Wow. Just wow. So you consider "willful misconduct" to be more appalling than willfully endangering the lives of others in when determining who deserves to go to med school just because you can relate to someone who has driven drunk? Are you trolling or have you seriously twisted you logic that far?

I mean, if an applicant was a rapist and an ADCOM member who had committed sexual assault but never been caught decided to give them a shot because the ADCOM could "relate" to the rapist, would you think it was acceptable? Hell no. So your logic of "I can relate because I did it but I turned out okay" is complete garbage. I honestly find the level of cognitive dissonance you're displaying in this thread to be very disturbing for someone in the position you're in. If a major reason you find it acceptable to give individuals with a DUI a second chance is because you can relate, then I would urge you to seriously reconsider the the ramifications of that mindset when selecting applicants, as that logic is nothing short of complete and utter nonsense.
 
It's Xmas Eve, so let's cut us some slack on the hyperbole and the moral outrage,OK?

Stagg737 said:
Wow. Just wow. So you consider "willful misconduct" to be more appalling than willfully endangering the lives of others in when determining who deserves to go to med school just because you can relate to someone who has driven drunk? Are you trolling or have you seriously twisted you logic that far?

I mean, if an applicant was a rapist and an ADCOM member who had committed sexual assault but never been caught decided to give them a shot because the ADCOM could "relate" to the rapist, would you think it was acceptable? Hell no. So your logic of "I can relate because I did it but I turned out okay" is complete garbage. I honestly find the level of cognitive dissonance you're displaying in this thread to be very disturbing for someone in the position you're in. If a major reason you find it acceptable to give individuals with a DUI a second chance is because you can relate, then I would urge you to seriously reconsider the the ramifications of that mindset when selecting applicants, as that logic is nothing short of complete and utter nonsense.
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hotblaza said:
One question, So I have been looking at different schools and etc, and if a school does not ask about academic violations (only felonies and such) and I get admitted. Is it common practice for schools to ask for like some kind of further in depth transcript or background check that would show that I have had a academic integrity violation and they take back the acceptance? Or do they not ask for nothing in regards to a more indepth educational background check after the transcript?
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Pretty sure the AACOMAS app form asks about IAs. Don't know about the AMCAS form.
 
It is not in your best interest to cover this up. Say you hide it and get away with it... but the school finds out a year or so later that you didn’t disclose, they can dismiss you after the fact.
 
hotblaza said:
Hey im a sophmore with a 3.9 GPA currently and I recently got charged with academic dishonesty in my biology class due to unfortunately being caught providing/recieving answers to a test so I received an F in the class. I do have an IA on my transcript but after one year of good standing it will be removed. I plan on retaking the class to get an A. Are my shots at med school destroyed now since Ill still have to explain the failure grade. I have fully learned from my mistake and I am never going to try and cheat on an exam ever again this is living hell and I feel like **** that I have been caught doing this.

If anyone could please help me that would be amazing, I feel as if its hopeless for me now that I have this with me, I don't know what I can even do with my future anymore...
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So based off my understanding, it can be expunged after 365 days. So you have 3 options.
1. Report it based off of some internal honor code and ruin your career in medicine for at least 10 years (Do you know how much changes in 10 years? Think back 10 years ago and compare yourself now)
2. Don't report it, make sure its not on any committee letter (Fixed by not disclosing to your advisors and making the letters non confidential), and "live with the guilt".
3. Don't report it, have it show up on a committee letter, and still ruin your career in medicine for 10 years.

Before people flame on me for Option 2, Come on guys, there are worse crimes people commit than go unreported. Don't expect the person to take your spot to be morally better or fit to be a doctor- you don't know their past actions or moral compasses.

That being said- if you crack under pressure and are easily affected by guilt- Option 1 is probably your best bet.
 
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Brother Gob said:
So based off my understanding, it can be expunged after 365 days. So you have 3 options.
1. Report it based off of some internal honor code and ruin your career in medicine for at least 10 years (Do you know how much changes in 10 years? Think back 10 years ago and compare yourself now)
2. Don't report it, make sure its not on any committee letter (Fixed by not disclosing to your advisors and making the letters non confidential), and "live with the guilt".
3. Don't report it, have it show up on a committee letter, and still ruin your career in medicine for 10 years.

Before people flame on me for Option 2, Come on guys, there are worse crimes people commit than go unreported. Don't expect the person to take your spot to be morally better or fit to be a doctor- you don't know their past actions or moral compasses.

That being said- if you crack under pressure and are easily affected by guilt- Option 1 is probably your best bet.
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Arn’t there other ways schools can find out aside for the committee letter? Prior to matriculation arnt background checks conducted on students?
 
MDPedigree said:
Arn’t there other ways schools can find out aside for the committee letter? Prior to matriculation arnt background checks conducted on students?
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A criminal background check? That only pertains to lawful issues -- misdemeanors, felonies, etc.

However, I don't think very may schools specifically go searching for I.A infractions, and since the OP's record would have been expunged, they most likely wouldn't find anything even by calling the school.
 
MDPedigree said:
Arn’t there other ways schools can find out aside for the committee letter? Prior to matriculation arnt background checks conducted on students?
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Like Robin -jay said, If its expunged, only way of finding out is
1. Committee Letters
2. Pre Med's shooting themselves in the foot. (More like leg in this case)
 
So @hotblaza, don't see your advisor, committee, or mention this for at least 365 days (which is fine because you'll be applying way later than that), and when you come in to as that letter to be written, even they won't see it since its expunged. So if you take the proper precautions, even it showing up in a committee letter is unlikely if not impossible. Please correct me i'm mistaken about this process.
 
hotblaza said:
I dont know if its expunged, all I know is according to the school I can have the IA removed after 365 days, there still might be record of it, should I talk to the dean and see if I can get all of it expunged?
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A hundred times yes. Keep this between you and the Dean only. Ask if it'll show up on Dean's Certification.
 
hotblaza said:
I dont know if its expunged, all I know is according to the school I can have the IA removed after 365 days, there still might be record of it, should I talk to the dean and see if I can get all of it expunged?
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I would ask. I don't see why not, unless someone here says something otherwise.
 
hotblaza said:
Should I talk to the dean however, I dont know if the actual record is expunged, all I know is the IA will not appear on my official transcript.
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If it shows up on Dean's Certification, fight to have a plea case via student legal services. Do it now before the case expires. Worst case scenario and it sticks, you can either wait and put your career on hold until the record is permanently removed (Which may take anywhere from 4-7 years depending on the university), or find out schools that don't request Dean's Certificate (do some research) and apply to those schools. The only issue with option 2 is that if you're in med school and they decide to randomly do a uni background check they might kick you. However, if you take precautions (don't mention it to anyone, I mean anyone) then you shouldn't worry about it. A cool trick you can do if its on the Dean's Certificate 4 years after graduation from university is take a gap year or two, then apply. That way the next big background check (around boards or graduation) you come clean.

No need to waste 10 years if you don't have to.
 
Brother Gob said:
If it shows up on Dean's Certification, fight to have a plea case via student legal services. Do it now before the case expires. Worst case scenario and it sticks, you can either wait and put your career on hold until the record is permanently removed (Which may take anywhere from 4-7 years depending on the university), or find out schools that don't request Dean's Certificate (do some research) and apply to those schools. The only issue with option 2 is that if you're in med school and they decide to randomly do a uni background check they might kick you. However, if you take precautions (don't mention it to anyone, I mean anyone) then you shouldn't worry about it. A cool trick you can do if its on the Dean's Certificate 4 years after graduation from university is take a gap year or two, then apply. That way the next big background check (around boards or graduation) you come clean.

No need to waste 10 years if you don't have to.
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You know quite a bit. I learned something.
 
Brother Gob said:
If it shows up on Dean's Certification, fight to have a plea case via student legal services. Do it now before the case expires. Worst case scenario and it sticks, you can either wait and put your career on hold until the record is permanently removed (Which may take anywhere from 4-7 years depending on the university), or find out schools that don't request Dean's Certificate (do some research) and apply to those schools. The only issue with option 2 is that if you're in med school and they decide to randomly do a uni background check they might kick you. However, if you take precautions (don't mention it to anyone, I mean anyone) then you shouldn't worry about it. A cool trick you can do if its on the Dean's Certificate 4 years after graduation from university is take a gap year or two, then apply. That way the next big background check (around boards or graduation) you come clean.

No need to waste 10 years if you don't have to.
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But you'll still have an F. An F in a sea of otherwise good grades would raise eyebrows.
 
Planes2Doc said:
But you'll still have an F. An F in a sea of otherwise good grades would raise eyebrows.
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Very true- A legitimate concern. However, if the only story they hear if the one you provide- you could give them a much lighter narrative or a completely different one that has nothing to do with cheating. However, that deeply swings upon the lines of morality, and due this being a Professional-Health forum I would rather not discuss that here.
 
Brother Gob said:
Very true- A legitimate concern. However, if the only story they hear if the one you provide- you could give them a much lighter narrative or a completely different one that has nothing to do with cheating. However, that deeply swings upon the lines of morality, and due this being a Professional-Health forum I would rather not go there.
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Once you start the lie, you'll probably end up digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. Before you know it, you become all sweaty and probably end up having a panic attack. Then probably get blacklisted from medical schools, because it's a small world after all. An F is one of those things someone would write about on their personal statement to explain it, and not usually a one-sentence brush off. If I were an ADCOM, I'd want to know what happened and what the student did to improve. Digging would quickly lead to BS if there is any.
 
Planes2Doc said:
Once you start the lie, you'll probably end up digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. Before you know it, you become all sweaty and probably end up having a panic attack. Then probably get blacklisted from medical schools, because it's a small world after all. An F is one of those things someone would write about on their personal statement to explain it, and not usually a one-sentence brush off. If I were an ADCOM, I'd want to know what happened and what the student did to improve. Digging would quickly lead to BS if there is any.
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Thats true. You have to cover your tracks, rehearse your story as if it was a scene in a play, and execute properly in your interviews and personal statement. Not something just anyone can do. However, once your narrative is the only one that is accessible, you have the power to make this event insignificant (to an extent) or make your application DOA.
 
Med schools have enough people applying as it is. Take the L and go into another field. Don't want cheaters in my class.
 
Brother Gob said:
Depends on access to the IA, and you mentioning it. Without any records of an IA, what would they put?
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"Student has grown so much as a person since the cheating incident. "

I have seen letter writers inadvertently out candidates a number of times. These people then get immediately rejected.

An F in a sea of good grades also gets attention. Like a black spot on an otherwise white canvas, your eyes immediately go to it.

When I see stuff like this I will ask the candidate about what's going on with that F?

Your sociopathic advice to the OP is not helping.
 
Goro said:
"Student has grown so much as a person since the cheating incident. "

I have seen letter writers inadvertently out candidates a number of times. These people then get immediately rejected.

An F in a sea of good grades also gets attention. Like a black spot on an otherwise white canvas, your eyes immediately go to it.

When I see stuff like this I will ask the candidate about what's going on with that F?

Your sociopathic advice to the OP is not helping.
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In terms to the letter writer mentioning it- that’s why you make it non confidential. So you can see if that will be an issue.

In terms of explaining an F, choose your words wisely.
 
piii said:
Med schools have enough people applying as it is. Take the L and go into another field. Don't want cheaters in my class.
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There are seemingly many tiers of cheating. Do you only consider "cheating during exams" worthy of blacklisting from medical school? Where is the line drawn?

Would someone who looks at exams from the same class a year before be considered a cheater? What about someone who verbalizes with someone who took the class before, and wrote down what they remember was on the exam? What about a student in lab who asks a separate lab group next to them for a lab report answer? What about a student that works with another student and is essentially so lazy they just let the other student do all the work but copy down the answers and says "well, we worked together"?
 
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hotblaza said:
Hey im a sophmore with a 3.9 GPA currently and I recently got charged with academic dishonesty in my biology class due to unfortunately being caught providing/recieving answers to a test so I received an F in the class. I do have an IA on my transcript but after one year of good standing it will be removed. I plan on retaking the class to get an A. Are my shots at med school destroyed now since Ill still have to explain the failure grade. I have fully learned from my mistake and I am never going to try and cheat on an exam ever again this is living hell and I feel like **** that I have been caught doing this.

If anyone could please help me that would be amazing, I feel as if its hopeless for me now that I have this with me, I don't know what I can even do with my future anymore...
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HomeSkool said:
Twice in your post you illustrated the exact problem adcoms will have when reviewing your application:


You may call this semantics, I call it a Freudian slip. As long as you feel worse about being caught than you do about being a cheater in the first place, you'll have a very hard time convincing admissions committees that your repentance and reformation are genuine. Do some real soul-searching here. The problem isn't having been caught, it's lacking integrity.


No, you'll have to explain having had an institutional action taken against you. The AAMC requires that you report all IAs, even if some institutional policy keeps them from appearing on your transcript. The relevant passage (found at Sections 1-3 of the AMCAS® application: Your Background Information):


Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I believe your medical aspirations are on hold for the foreseeable future. If you want to have any hope of resurrecting them, you'll need to convince adcoms that you truly are a different man than the one who cheated. That's going to require years of work in the most altruistic way possible. You need to start by learning that the problem isn't that you were caught -- it's that you cheated in the first place.
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OP, make sure you follow HomeSkool's advice above, so that you know what your next steps should be.
 
Robin-jay said:
There are seemingly many tiers of cheating. Do you only consider "cheating during exams" worthy of blacklisting from medical school? Where is the line drawn?

Would someone who looks at exams from the same class a year before be considered a cheater? What about someone who verbalizes with someone who took the class before, and wrote down what they remember was on the exam? What about a student in lab who asks a separate lab group next to them for a lab report answer? What about a student that works with another student and is essentially so lazy they just let the other student do all the work but copy down the answers and says "well, we worked together"?
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Of course there are many different tiers of cheating. But what ultimately matters is the consequence. Whether the person copied someone's homework assignment or went into an exam with 007 equipment might leave the same mark on the transcript.
 
@Brother Gob, you are one of the most dishonest and morally bankrupt people I've ever seen posting on here. Your advice is, "If you get caught cheating, lie as much as possible and figure out any way you can to avoid taking responsibility for your actions, morality be damned." I'm completely sickened by your lack of conscience and integrity. God help anyone whose welfare depends on your character.

@hotblaza, there are ways to come back from your mistake and get into med school. You can actually learn a very hard lesson from this experience and emerge as a better person. It may cost you a few years of your life because that's the cost of cheating. If you do the right thing, I wish you nothing but success and a fruitful career. If you follow this sociopathic troll's advice, you deserve to get caught in the most humiliating and future-destroying way imaginable.

And to anyone reading Brother Gob's advice and liking what you see, his lack of morals is disgusting. He's exactly the kind of sociopath who harms others and lies about it. Exactly the kind of person we should be running out of medicine as fast as possible.

so·ci·o·path
ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
noun
  1. a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
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Goro said:
I agree with my learned colleague HomeSkool. If your medical career isn't over, at the minimum it's in deep stasis. You need to lead an exemplary life for a few years, and preferably occupy positions of responsibility.

And OWN this.

The mindset you're up against from Adcoms is "Is this the type of person we want in our Class?" and also "Why should we take a risk on this kid when we have some many fine candidates who didn't cheat?"

And always have a Plan B.
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@Goro So is the F miniscule compared to a cheating IA?
 
Even if you were to hypothetically get away with passing the F off as just a one-off, this behavior may propagate into medicine. In medicine, there are real people with real consequences. Can you imagine having to watch a group of family members grieving around a family member's bed? Can you imagine having to live with yourself if you lied or fudged something that led to a medical disaster? It's tough enough living with yourself when you second-guess yourself when working at the top of your ability. But cutting corners and stuff, yeah, that won't go so well. Whether for you, your patient, and anyone in between.
 
Planes2Doc said:
Even if you were to hypothetically get away with passing the F off as just a one-off, this behavior may propagate into medicine. In medicine, there are real people with real consequences. Can you imagine having to watch a group of family members grieving around a family member's bed? Can you imagine having to live with yourself if you lied or fudged something that led to a medical disaster? It's tough enough living with yourself when you second-guess yourself when working at the top of your ability. But cutting corners and stuff, yeah, that won't go so well. Whether for you, your patient, and anyone in between.
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I don't think getting away with one F fluke early on is far-fetched tbh.
 
Brother Gob said:
In terms to the letter writer mentioning it- that’s why you make it non confidential. So you can see if that will be an issue.

In terms of explaining an F, choose your words wisely.
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Pretty sure letters get their value because they are confidential. Applicants demanding their letter writers to show what they wrote defeats the purpose. This is different from letter writers voluntarily showing what they wrote to applicants before submitting, but those are uncommon cases.

When asking for letters from letter writers, you should waive your right to see them. To ensure you'll get a good letter, just ask your letter writer: "would you be able to write me a strong letter supporting my medical school application?". If the letter writer confidently/enthusiastically says yes, you can be sure you'll get a good letter without having to see it.
 
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