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it would be interesting to see the age distribution of each side. If I had to guess, the ones who say take prestige are younger, and those who say take the money are older (and perhaps wiser?)
younger attending

Honestly, if someone wants to choose prestige, up to them, doesnt affect me. Im just trying to caution some of the people on SDN with grandiose ambitions. I hate to see someone get buried in debt, then something bad happens and now they're SOL. I remember a few students who failed out year 2 of med school and a few other w/ terrible boards, and they had quite a bit of debt so that can be a scary situation. Personally I don't take unnecessary risks. But if you want to harvard or bust, hey power to you.
 
Oof, the assumption here that doctors struggling to get out of debt are the ones to listen to is…quite an assumption.

If $200k of debt at 3% is a burden to your happiness as an attending making $200k+/yr, I don’t think $0 debt or a salary of $600k could save you from your money problems.
You are assuming that 200k debt is all you have to tackle in life. People will want to start Fam’s, buy a house or have other debt. You legit talking like you never had to pay off debt and don’t see how crippling it can be. At the end of the day 200K+ In debt is way more tangible issues to consider than abstract advantage prestige may or may not bring you.
 
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People will want to start Fam’s, buy a house or have other debt.
You are just proving my point that $50k vs $250k debt is only an issue if you think you can't start a family or buy a house with a salary of $100k for a few years in your mid-30s, then $200k+ for the rest of your career.
At the end of the day 200K+ In debt is way more tangible issues to consider than abstract advantage prestige may or may not bring you.
Doesn't get more tangible than ending up in a specialty you don't enjoy for 30+ years.
 
When you put it like that it sounds silly, but its the addition of the other things that I mentioned. Beyond that, having your name on a single publication or two publications is only a small fraction of the important elements to that early mentoring relationship. Its being taught the scientific method, how to write manuscripts, getting a couple middle authorships to fill out your CV and learn how the review process works. Anyone can say that this stuff is learnable on your own. And thats true. I had to learn a lot of it on my own. But if you can have someone who has been through it before guide you through it, then maybe this next generation can be better than we were at the same stage of our training. You could ask why its more likely to happen at a "prestigious" university. Well its because these programs end up having residents and fellows who went through those same processes (writing a bunch of papers, etc.) to get to that fellowship as opposed to less academic institutions.

Beyond that, it's developing the connection with residents and fellows in your field of interest who soon will be faculty in your field of interest who you can call upon when you're moving onto the next phase of training.

With respect to learning cutting edge techniques without understanding basic medicine. This is the school of thought that would suggest that every medical school is the same. An MD is an MD, and I agree that at most levels this is mostly true. There's no secret cure for cancer that is only taught at one school. The argument being that cutting edge stuff is not necessarily at the clinical level yet, so whether a person is trained in clinical medicine doesn't have a serious impact on their ability to be exposed to novel therapies that are still in their earliest phases of development. Moreover, its exceedingly hard to think of things that you've never even heard of before. I for one think that getting exposed to breadth of clinical scenarios and being at a center that is participating in trials (even as a student) is beneficial. When TAVR was new, i was a student at a participating center. And people were constantly talking about it around the medical center. Being part of that milieu was beneficial.

If your only concern is doing okay on step 1, passing your classes, and getting the degree, then I absolutely agree that the $200,000 is not worth it.

The things you mention (learning how to write a manuscript, review process, new ideas and tools currently in trials, etc.) are only meaningful if one intends to pursue an academic career. And by academic career I don't mean physicians who are more like teaching/clinical professors, but instead, I am referring to physician scientists and physician leaders. However, these tools can be obtained in fellowships and other post-doctoral fellowships. I don't believe taking on more debt is sensible when one has the option to finish medical school with low to zero debt. It is far more reasonable to take on more debt if one believes that particular medical school would be a better learning environment and would better set him/her up to achieve particular goals.

I don't believe one answer is best. My wife turned down free rides to other institutions and went to a prominent medical school and took on more debt, although it is manageable so far. Assess your own motivations and determine what you hope to accomplish.
 
The things you mention (learning how to write a manuscript, review process, new ideas and tools currently in trials, etc.) are only meaningful if one intends to pursue an academic career. And by academic career I don't mean physicians who are more like teaching/clinical professors, but instead, I am referring to physician scientists and physician leaders. However, these tools can be obtained in fellowships and other post-doctoral fellowships. I don't believe taking on more debt is sensible when one has the option to finish medical school with low to zero debt. It is far more reasonable to take on more debt if one believes that particular medical school would be a better learning environment and would better set him/her up to achieve particular goals.

I don't believe one answer is best. My wife turned down free rides to other institutions and went to a prominent medical school and took on more debt, although it is manageable so far. Assess your own motivations and determine what you hope to accomplish.
Definitely agree. There's no one size fits all.

These things are learnable in other settings but I've been through several of them and they're not necessarily better than direct mentorship. Additionally, as a surgeon, there is very little time to spend on that stuff during residency and fellowship. So much has to be learned on the fly. For people going into a surgical subspecialty, I still think its worth it to get focused one on one experience "tagging along" with a resident or fellow mentor.

The problem with learning it in residency is that there are dozens of people who learned it during medical school and by the time you go into the lab... those guys are literally 3-4 years ahead of you. For an intrepid junior resident this might be 8 manuscripts, 3 presentations, and a much deeper knowledge of the entire academic process. These are the advantages that i am talking about. Its worth $200,000k to some people (me included). It's not worth it to other people, and that's fine too. If you want to do a competitive surgical specialty, this could be the difference of doing what you want... vs. Settling for something else.
 
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