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At the end of the day, if anyone mentions partnership track to you that is a red flag for a "house of cards" and you should move on. And if you dont move on, tell them " let my lawyer take a look at the books of your operation?" See what they say. If they say "screw you", say that back to them.
 
OptionOffense said:
At the end of the day, if anyone mentions partnership track to you that is a red flag for a "house of cards" and you should move on. And if you dont move on, tell them " let my lawyer take a look at the books of your operation?" See what they say. If they say "screw you", say that back to them.
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Probably would not go with that approach. Agreed that there are few true partnerships left but the ones you find that are fair can be very lucrative.
 
USCTrojan11 said:
Probably would not go with that approach. Agreed that there are few true partnerships left but the ones you find that are fair can be very lucrative.
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If it were fair it would not be called be a partnership track. If you are doing the same exact work, have the same credentials you should make the same.
 
GravelRider said:
100% of the people who are multimillionaires after winning the lottery took a chance on a lotto ticket. What is the percentage of people who get scammed? Why is the skepticism towards these partnership tracks so pervasive?
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Like I already said, I get the skepticism. I understand it. But partnership track is just the name of the game for the best jobs. I am not arguing all offers end up being great, but your alternative is to be an employee and get 100% guarantee of being screwed long term.
 
OptionOffense said:
If it were fair it would not be called be a partnership track. If you are doing the same exact work, have the same credentials you should make the same.
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on the day you get hired you have nothing to do with the financial strength of the group you are joining. You have nothing to do with the commercial insurance rates they have negotiated or the facility contracts they are working with. Why should you get paid the same? You did none of the work to set up the practice for success and you do not deserve to make way more money than you could elsewhere on day 1.
 
Mman said:
on the day you get hired you have nothing to do with the financial strength of the group you are joining. You have nothing to do with the commercial insurance rates they have negotiated or the facility contracts they are working with. Why should you get paid the same? You did none of the work to set up the practice for success and you do not deserve to make way more money than you could elsewhere on day 1.
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In some fields maybe it works, not in this one. It is rife with malfeasance. Just like those AMCs now. We dont want you to worry about the business aspect of things. Just worry about practicing medicine. Meanwhile, they are robbing you blind
 
Mman said:
on the day you get hired you have nothing to do with the financial strength of the group you are joining. You have nothing to do with the commercial insurance rates they have negotiated or the facility contracts they are working with. Why should you get paid the same? You did none of the work to set up the practice for success and you do not deserve to make way more money than you could elsewhere on day 1.
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How dare you tell us millennials what we do and do not deserve on day one! 😡
 
OptionOffense said:
At the end of the day, if anyone mentions partnership track to you that is a red flag for a "house of cards" and you should move on. And if you dont move on, tell them " let my lawyer take a look at the books of your operation?" See what they say. If they say "screw you", say that back to them.
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This is ridiculous and naive beyond words.

And I say that as someone who is almost without exception adamantly opposed to any track that is over a year.
 
OptionOffense said:
In some fields maybe it works, not in this one. It is rife with malfeasance. Just like those AMCs now. We dont want you to worry about the business aspect of things. Just worry about practicing medicine. Meanwhile, they are robbing you blind
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it has worked just fine for us since before you were born
 
teacher2md said:
How many people do you string along for this super-secret partnership track and then let go after 3 years?
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None. Everyone has made partner. All our current associates will make partner. We are a high acuity place and wait for the right people - Some people here have contacted me about partner track jobs…. Unless you have a cards fellowship or are super comfy w disaster vascular, transplants, trauma, Neuro etc. you won’t like it here.
We do have a system where the some of the partners will sit you down at the 6 month or year mark and give you feed back on if you are on track to make partner or what you need to improve on - that’s happened once before I got here… and that person made partner.
We get the right people in the spot so everyone makes partner. After your three year anniversary we vote on you at the next meeting we have.
 
How much is partnership income range? Am I missing out by not going for partnership track? I'm hospital employee <5 years out of residency. Make a little under $700k W2. There's whispers of private groups around us making $900k with more weeks of vacation than us. Is that the typical Partner salary?
 
DrNut said:
How much is partnership income range? Am I missing out by not going for partnership track? I'm hospital employee <5 years out of residency. Make a little under $700k W2. There's whispers of private groups around us making $900k with more weeks of vacation than us. Is that the typical Partner salary?
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This is peak SDN
 
DrNut said:
How much is partnership income range? Am I missing out by not going for partnership track? I'm hospital employee <5 years out of residency. Make a little under $700k W2. There's whispers of private groups around us making $900k with more weeks of vacation than us. Is that the typical Partner salary?
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All I have to say is the people in your region and doing some excellent negotiating
 
DrNut said:
How much is partnership income range? Am I missing out by not going for partnership track? I'm hospital employee <5 years out of residency. Make a little under $700k W2. There's whispers of private groups around us making $900k with more weeks of vacation than us. Is that the typical Partner salary?
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Thats funny
 
OptionOffense said:
If it were fair it would not be called be a partnership track. If you are doing the same exact work, have the same credentials you should make the same.
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I see your perspective and have the same cautious approach. There's a difference between partner tracks and what USAP calls a "partner" track.

Sure a new grad fresh out of a good residency may be more slick and fast at all blocks, TEE, TTE, POCUS and everything that the old guard was never exposed to. However, why should you get to profit share from day 1 when you never had to be part of the group of docs who financed the building of a surgery center so they can collect facility fees. Let's say that group took a huge financial risk and sacrifice (years of lower income paying construction loans). Now the new kid wants to be paid equal to them without having been any part of building the group.

Same goes for groups in which they took years of sweat equity to endear themselves to the surgeons and hospital for their contract, negotiated (and maybe even hired lawyers or sued insurance companies in the past) to get to their current state of financial well-being.

Those are the tracks that I believe are extremely fair. It also motivates the new guy to prove themselves, assimilate and make positive contributions to the group. Any track longer than 3 years - I think is unethical. Any track where they don't sit you down multiple times to let you know you're not on track and give you opportunities to correct - also extremely unethical.

The ones where they just pay you less for doing the same work and there's no equity involved is complete BS.
 
DrNut said:
How much is partnership income range? Am I missing out by not going for partnership track? I'm hospital employee <5 years out of residency. Make a little under $700k W2. There's whispers of private groups around us making $900k with more weeks of vacation than us. Is that the typical Partner salary?
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Partners here make 1.5 mil with 20 weeks vacation.

$700k?? That’s CRNA salary
 
USCTrojan11 said:
I see your perspective and have the same cautious approach. There's a difference between partner tracks and what USAP calls a "partner" track.

Sure a new grad fresh out of a good residency may be more slick and fast at all blocks, TEE, TTE, POCUS and everything that the old guard was never exposed to. However, why should you get to profit share from day 1 when you never had to be part of the group of docs who financed the building of a surgery center so they can collect facility fees. Let's say that group took a huge financial risk and sacrifice (years of lower income paying construction loans). Now the new kid wants to be paid equal to them without having been any part of building the group.

Same goes for groups in which they took years of sweat equity to endear themselves to the surgeons and hospital for their contract, negotiated (and maybe even hired lawyers or sued insurance companies in the past) to get to their current state of financial well-being.

Those are the tracks that I believe are extremely fair. It also motivates the new guy to prove themselves, assimilate and make positive contributions to the group. Any track longer than 3 years - I think is unethical. Any track where they don't sit you down multiple times to let you know you're not on track and give you opportunities to correct - also extremely unethical.

The ones where they just pay you less for doing the same work and there's no equity involved is complete BS.
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well said.
 
USCTrojan11 said:
I see your perspective and have the same cautious approach. There's a difference between partner tracks and what USAP calls a "partner" track.

Sure a new grad fresh out of a good residency may be more slick and fast at all blocks, TEE, TTE, POCUS and everything that the old guard was never exposed to. However, why should you get to profit share from day 1 when you never had to be part of the group of docs who financed the building of a surgery center so they can collect facility fees. Let's say that group took a huge financial risk and sacrifice (years of lower income paying construction loans). Now the new kid wants to be paid equal to them without having been any part of building the group.

Same goes for groups in which they took years of sweat equity to endear themselves to the surgeons and hospital for their contract, negotiated (and maybe even hired lawyers or sued insurance companies in the past) to get to their current state of financial well-being.

Those are the tracks that I believe are extremely fair. It also motivates the new guy to prove themselves, assimilate and make positive contributions to the group. Any track longer than 3 years - I think is unethical. Any track where they don't sit you down multiple times to let you know you're not on track and give you opportunities to correct - also extremely unethical.

The ones where they just pay you less for doing the same work and there's no equity involved is complete BS.
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You're not going to convince me that because this practice has been normalized that it is not anything but corrupt. Sure, take your facility fees for whatever building you built, but taking the professional fees from another clinician is corruption. Plain and Simple. You can be as picky as you want but partnership tracks in medicine that steals professional fees from others should be prosecuted in my opinion.
 
OptionOffense said:
You're not going to convince me that because this practice has been normalized that it is not anything but corrupt. Sure, take your facility fees for whatever building you built, but taking the professional fees from another clinician is corruption. Plain and Simple. You can be as picky as you want but partnership tracks in medicine that steals professional fees from others should be prosecuted in my opinion.
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Right. More often than not, that money is not going back into building the business. That money is going into building an extension on a partner’s vacation home.
 
OptionOffense said:
You're not going to convince me that because this practice has been normalized that it is not anything but corrupt. Sure, take your facility fees for whatever building you built, but taking the professional fees from another clinician is corruption. Plain and Simple. You can be as picky as you want but partnership tracks in medicine that steals professional fees from others should be prosecuted in my opinion.
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With that sort of asinine mentality, you’re probably scratching off >95% of jobs out there (hospital-employed, AMC, and partnership track PP).

I guess you can always hang up your own “open for business” sign at some desperate surgery center and collect whatever garbage rates the insurance companies feel sorry enough to throw your way. Good luck.
 
DrNut said:
How much is partnership income range? Am I missing out by not going for partnership track? I'm hospital employee <5 years out of residency. Make a little under $700k W2. There's whispers of private groups around us making $900k with more weeks of vacation than us. Is that the typical Partner salary?
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partnerships near me range from about $700K to $1.5M per year depending on the group.
 
No disrespect to those posting on this thread, but anything longer than 2 years is complete unnecessary, and even 2 years is sort of pushing it. You can learn a lot about someone's personality and skill level in 1 year but I get 2 years gives a little bit of wiggle room in case someone is giving an Emmy level performance. lf it's 3 years or more there's probably more of a reason than "that's just how we do it" and I can understand if those details aren't shared publicly or even with the group. I personally wouldn't send my CV to a group requiring a 3 year or more "audition" unless it checked off every single box
 
So, for those of you with these lucrative reimbursement rates: you pay your partnership-track people fairly (>400k for seems the minimum for a call-taking position) and don’t rely on skimming from them?
 
Twiggidy said:
No disrespect to those posting on this thread, but anything longer than 2 years is complete unnecessary, and even 2 years is sort of pushing it. You can learn a lot about someone's personality and skill level in 1 year but I get 2 years gives a little bit of wiggle room in case someone is giving an Emmy level performance. lf it's 3 years or more there's probably more of a reason than "that's just how we do it" and I can understand if those details aren't shared publicly or even with the group. I personally wouldn't send my CV to a group requiring a 3 year or more "audition" unless it checked off every single box
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To me, a long partnership tracks exists because it can. Must be a damn fine location.
 
Partnership tracks are generally Ponzi schemes for the sole benefit of the existing group at the expense of the new hire.

The idea that you need a partnership track to weed out the bad docs is nonsense. If you hire someone and don't like them three months later, then fire them. No partnership track necessary. In fact.. partnership can make it harder to fire the docs later if they become problematic. So the group can become top heavy with old guys past their primes.

A financial buy in only serves the purpose of inflating the salaries of the partners and serves as a psychological trap to keep people from leaving (and losing their investment)

The best groups aren't only the ones with partnership tracks. Plenty of better groups without them. Its simply a tactic that a group with good payor mix can use to profit off the new hires (Want access to our payor mix? Then pay us first)

If you are a great anesthesiologist then your abilities and personality provide all the job security you will ever need.
 
patriot6 said:
To me, a long partnership tracks exists because it can. Must be a damn fine location.
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Most exist because they have something that the candidate wants, either high salary or excellent location (see: that group in Santa Monica). For some, it's worth a 3-5 year grind to live in warm weather near a beach or it's worth it to potentially be in the Kaiser club with all of it's potential benefits. We all have our own definition of "desirable" whether is geographical or financial and it's the desirable places that can pull this off.

Three years is a long time to potentially have the football pulled away from the tee, even if the tradition is that everyone makes partner. If that's the case, why not make it two years or even one?
 
I understand partnership tracks. I get it, I got hazed as a college athlete. You need to put the work in before you're apart of the club. I think the issue is most anesthesia partnerships, from what I gather, don’t have any tangible assets like a surgicenter, office buildings or ancillary income streams that other specialties buy in to.

I guess you could say you are buying into the intangible assets like maintenance of contracts? For what it's worth, I've heard of much longer and more complicated buy-in in surgical specialties. I do think sweat equity buy-ins become less and less attractive as you get further from residency.
 
All the places I've ever talked to just have you wait 2 years before you can vote for practices matters. That's the partnership track. Nothing financial. I would only talk to a practice that will show you incomes, call schedules, and daily schedules. It's also important to know who's making the schedule and what criteria they use to make it. If the practice is paying you significantly less than the partners then it needs to be explained why and guaranteed that you'll get the same income come partnership

I think the practices that play games and leech employees and then suddenly don't make them partner would've definitely been called out at this point knowing this forum , so it's either a rare occurrence or those who have done the partnership tracks eventually made partner, got good income, and have nothing to complain about.
 
I think that what it comes down to is that the partnership track is a usually a negative factor when evaluating a practice for potential employment. But it's only one of many factors and it's weight is proportional to the cost to obtain it.

Partnership track that is purely for voting rights or access to vacation preference, etc is a small and potentially reasonable cost.

A buy in is a large negative factor and needs to be properly evaluated and valued against the other potential positives (unit value, work life balance, salary)
 
turnupthegas said:
I understand partnership tracks. I get it, I got hazed as a college athlete. You need to put the work in before you're apart of the club. I think the issue is most anesthesia partnerships, from what I gather, don’t have any tangible assets like a surgicenter, office buildings or ancillary income streams that other specialties buy in to.

I guess you could say you are buying into the intangible assets like maintenance of contracts? For what it's worth, I've heard of much longer and more complicated buy-in in surgical specialties. I do think sweat equity buy-ins become less and less attractive as you get further from residency.
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how about administrative expenses, stipend money, those partners who are sitting in on hospital meetings. employee mentality is prevalent on this thread. there is a lot that goes into running a group. how about those professional fees when your sleeping in a hospital all night and do 1 epidural? your going to feel like you got a good deal with that night? the idea of joining a group of many similar physicians and then splitting evenly the groups revenue is not unique to anesthesia and is very common in all of medicine and dentistry. its funny, in my opinion the guys avoiding these "scam" partnership tracks and working for AMC or similar situations are the ones really working a lot for compensation that is average. your not seeing half of those professional fees you are fighting so hard for while your employer bills at high rates.. thats ok? for the AMC or hospital to take it? but the doctors who built a group benefitting should be prosecuted?
 
UscGhost said:
I think that what it comes down to is that the partnership track is a usually a negative factor when evaluating a practice for potential employment. But it's only one of many factors and it's weight is proportional to the cost to obtain it.

Partnership track that is purely for voting rights or access to vacation preference, etc is a small and potentially reasonable cost.

A buy in is a large negative factor and needs to be properly evaluated and valued against the other potential positives (unit value, work life balance, salary)
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One of the practices in our town still charges a buyin even though their average unit value is lower than ours. No wonder they have a terrible time recruiting resorting to agencies and locums while we are still able to recruit very good people including faculty and graduates of top programs.
 
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A partnership track of 1-2 years with nothing/minimal skimmed off the top and a token buy-in seems reasonable to me. For business management fees that support the group you take that off the top of the whole group. If there are partners who sit in at admin meetings then you pay those folks for the time with funds that come out of business management fees.

These groups with a 3 year track where they skim 25% off the top, cap your hours, make you take unbalanced amounts of call for free, and then charge you a big buy-in are a scam (there's a big scam group in socal like this).

It's not that complicated to set up a fair group structure. Anything that's blatantly unfair and requires smoke, mirrors, and handwaving with "oh it's really complicated and hard" explanations smell like a scam because it's a scam.
 
nimbus said:
Long partnership tracks are one of the worst lessons that doctors have adopted from lawyers.
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That's a big downside of the legal world. It burns a ton of people out. At least the partners bring in legitimate business and have true influence. I'm not sure that's true for your average anesthesia partner - nor should it be necessarily.

I was just reading that biglaw firms are now setting the first year salary at 215K. Imagine if residents got anything near that much...
BREAKING: Davis Polk Finally Announces New Compensation - And It's MORE Than The Milbank Scale - Above the Law
 
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Hoya11 said:
how about administrative expenses, stipend money, those partners who are sitting in on hospital meetings. employee mentality is prevalent on this thread. there is a lot that goes into running a group. how about those professional fees when your sleeping in a hospital all night and do 1 epidural? your going to feel like you got a good deal with that night? the idea of joining a group of many similar physicians and then splitting evenly the groups revenue is not unique to anesthesia and is very common in all of medicine and dentistry. its funny, in my opinion the guys avoiding these "scam" partnership tracks and working for AMC or similar situations are the ones really working a lot for compensation that is average. your not seeing half of those professional fees you are fighting so hard for while your employer bills at high rates.. thats ok? for the AMC or hospital to take it? but the doctors who built a group benefitting should be prosecuted?
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The difference between a hospital and an AMC is that a hospital will be willing to lose money on anesthesia in order to keep the ORs running. An AMC will not do this.
 
Hoya11 said:
how about administrative expenses, stipend money, those partners who are sitting in on hospital meetings. employee mentality is prevalent on this thread. there is a lot that goes into running a group. how about those professional fees when your sleeping in a hospital all night and do 1 epidural? your going to feel like you got a good deal with that night? the idea of joining a group of many similar physicians and then splitting evenly the groups revenue is not unique to anesthesia and is very common in all of medicine and dentistry. its funny, in my opinion the guys avoiding these "scam" partnership tracks and working for AMC or similar situations are the ones really working a lot for compensation that is average. your not seeing half of those professional fees you are fighting so hard for while your employer bills at high rates.. thats ok? for the AMC or hospital to take it? but the doctors who built a group benefitting should be prosecuted?
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Our group actually pays people to attend hospital committee and group committee meetings…it’s an hourly rate that is about the same amount you would get to do clinical work. Anyone who’s interested and willing can volunteer and serve on a committee whether they are a partner or not.
 
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kidthor said:
That's a big downside of the legal world. It burns a ton of people out. At least the partners bring in legitimate business and have true influence. I'm not sure that's true for your average anesthesia partner - nor should it be necessarily.

I was just reading that biglaw firms are now setting the first year salary at 215K now. Imagine if residents got anything near that much...
BREAKING: Davis Polk Finally Announces New Compensation - And It's MORE Than The Milbank Scale - Above the Law
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That’s a good income for twenty somethings but still peanuts compared to partners.
 
nimbus said:
Our group actually pays people to attend hospital committee and group committee meetings…it’s an hourly rate that is about the same amount you would get to do clinical work. Anyone who’s interested and willing can volunteer and serve on a committee whether they are a partner or not.
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Do you pay them extra when the meeting is during a regular day and somebody has to cover their rooms and whatnot?
 
Arch Guillotti said:
Do you pay them extra when the meeting is during a regular day and somebody has to cover their rooms and whatnot?
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Same rate whether meeting is early morning, midday, or evening. We consider committee work to be as essential as clinical work and treat it that way. Since no direct revenues are generated by committee work, paying for committee work very slightly decreases our average unit value but it’s worth it.


When someone needs to be be relieved at 3pm to attend a meeting, the person covering them also gets paid. Both the person who had to give up a case to attend a meeting and the person doing the case get paid.
 
OptionOffense said:
You're not going to convince me that because this practice has been normalized that it is not anything but corrupt. Sure, take your facility fees for whatever building you built, but taking the professional fees from another clinician is corruption. Plain and Simple. You can be as picky as you want but partnership tracks in medicine that steals professional fees from others should be prosecuted in my opinion.
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No one is stealing your professional fees...this setup I'm referring to is a profit sharing model. They all make the SAME base salary of $400ish. Now the new associate does not profit share the facility and group profits because why should he/she - he didn't pay for any construction or negotiate any contracts? In a good year, this profit share is ~$400k additional. In a bad year like 2020, they actually lost money and made less than the new grad. PPP made it all a wash.

It would be ridiculous and extremely pretentious if the new associate demanded to profit share and make $800 in the first year like all the partners.

Imagine joining a business with another partner. The other partner invested all the capital and had been running it solo for 15 years. Now you join and expect to share the profits from day one? Without having to endure the initial 5 years of low revenue, business loans, negative profits to get to where the business is. Do you think it's fair for someone to sink in all that money and sweat equity then you walk in and expect a 50/50 cut without having sunk in a single dollar? You'd be laughed out the building.

You seem like you prefer a salary job where everyone makes the same, which is fine. But don't knock others who have a more growth mindset and are willing to trade equity and labor early for higher future returns. As long as it's not predatory, those groups certainly lead to higher returns in the long run. Also it leads to far more satisfaction working for yourself/group than working for a corporation. You are personally vested in the groups growth, success and relationships.

You're absolutely right that groups where they decide to pay you less just because you're new and advance you to a false equity-free "partner" after are corrupt. You also probably haven't seen a true profitsharing partner track since they're so rare and NOT advertised now.
 
amyl said:
I have had very positive experiences with USAP. We are hiring for partner track or day docs right now. We are super picky about partners - it’s more permanent than marriage… so we usually hire partner track people with cardiac fellowships, lots of liver or level one trauma experience and preferably someone one of us have worked with…. The best jobs aren’t on gasworks (like all here will tell you.).
I love USAP… but I understand my experience in my specific group in USAP May not be the same that others have had elsewhere. I’m part of a very good group of outstanding anesthesiologists. We work hard but we are well compensated…. The partner track is long but worth it
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LOOOOL, 325k a year to do liver take backs and cardiac. Pretty sure every cardiac attending I know cannot block for jack and hasn't put in an epidural since residency. So basically you want someone who is TEE proficient and maybe a tad quicker putting in an IJ. I'm not Cardiac trained so I guess I can't run a norepi, epi, or milrinone gtt if I needed to. Also don't know to place a radial a line on a patient with a 20% EF or severe LM disease. Can't read an ABG either or transfuse when needed.

Even at a Level 1 center you need a diverse set of anesthesiologists, INCLUDING general non cardiac ones man. What good is someone who can read a TEE but can't do an inter scalene or pop...or hasn't put in a spinal/epidural in years...esp when the VAST majority of your cases are ortho/ENT/plastics/gen surgery. You don't need trauma exposure to do a crani either....
 
All these partnership talk -- Partnership is literally like buying into a business. Both the group, and the potential hire, should have a concrete idea of what the actual term is. You don't have to be equal partners. You don't have to profit share everything - especially assets that the new hire didn't buy into. However, everybody should have a good idea of what is, and is not part of the "partnership." I think asking operational questions about group RVU, financials, distribution of profit etc is not unreasonable for jobs that advertise themselves as partnership track. How else would you evaluate the job? Also note that being partners should also mean sharing not just the profits, but also the losses.

Lots of these "partnership" jobs are nothing more than employed position with a raise after a couple years. Nothing wrong with that, but should call it as it is.
 
nimbus said:
The difference between a hospital and an AMC is that a hospital will be willing to lose money on anesthesia in order to keep the ORs running. An AMC will not do this.
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Yeah but then the AMC just negotiates a stipend with the hospital so whats the difference? I dont see how this is a relevant. I think most hospitals lose money overall on anesthesia services whether by stipend or by costs> revenue. Working for an AMC in my opinion is very similar to working for a hospital directly. You've got a big corporate boss. Wouldnt you rather that boss be your partners? who are going to give you back as much as possible as they took from you... because they get the same cut...

nimbus said:
Our group actually pays people to attend hospital committee and group committee meetings…it’s an hourly rate that is about the same amount you would get to do clinical work. Anyone who’s interested and willing can volunteer and serve on a committee whether they are a partner or not.
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Right. That is my point. There is a cost to the group of keeping the group running other than just "stealing professional fees" for the partners to add onto their house.
 
amyl said:
Where is this?!?!
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southeast and midwest tend to have the highest earning partnerships. The top of the chain are the smaller ones that predominantly cover outpatient centers with overwhelmingly insured patients.
 
USCTrojan11 said:
No one is stealing your professional fees...this setup I'm referring to is a profit sharing model. They all make the SAME base salary of $400ish. Now the new associate does not profit share the facility and group profits because why should he/she - he didn't pay for any construction or negotiate any contracts? In a good year, this profit share is ~$400k additional. In a bad year like 2020, they actually lost money and made less than the new grad. PPP made it all a wash.

It would be ridiculous and extremely pretentious if the new associate demanded to profit share and make $800 in the first year like all the partners.

Imagine joining a business with another partner. The other partner invested all the capital and had been running it solo for 15 years. Now you join and expect to share the profits from day one? Without having to endure the initial 5 years of low revenue, business loans, negative profits to get to where the business is. Do you think it's fair for someone to sink in all that money and sweat equity then you walk in and expect a 50/50 cut without having sunk in a single dollar? You'd be laughed out the building.

You seem like you prefer a salary job where everyone makes the same, which is fine. But don't knock others who have a more growth mindset and are willing to trade equity and labor early for higher future returns. As long as it's not predatory, those groups certainly lead to higher returns in the long run. Also it leads to far more satisfaction working for yourself/group than working for a corporation. You are personally vested in the groups growth, success and relationships.

You're absolutely right that groups where they decide to pay you less just because you're new and advance you to a false equity-free "partner" after are corrupt. You also probably haven't seen a true profitsharing partner track since they're so rare and NOT advertised now.
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Imagine growing your business to a point where you need a business partner for whatever reason…need more capital, need expertise, need someone to share the work, etc. Now imagine telling that potential business partner you are going to haze him for 3+ years, give him the worst schedule, and his compensation will be proportionally less. At the end of those 3+ years….maybe, just maybe, you’ll actually be a partner in the business. Yeah, good luck with that in the real business world.

I once interviewed at a partnership that the track was 8 years. At the end of the 8 years you were eligible for partnership when one of the current partners decided to retire…so the track was effectively a lot longer than 8 years. They were paying below market at the time for the track…maybe $300k. The partners were all making $1.5-2 million by my estimate…possibly more. There are way more examples of egregious partnership tracks like this than the 1 year tryout and nominal share buying that is fair.
 
Hoya11 said:
Yeah but then the AMC just negotiates a stipend with the hospital so whats the difference? I dont see how this is a relevant. I think most hospitals lose money overall on anesthesia services whether by stipend or by costs> revenue. Working for an AMC in my opinion is very similar to working for a hospital directly. You've got a big corporate boss. Wouldnt you rather that boss be your partners? who are going to give you back as much as possible as they took from you... because they get the same cut...


Right. That is my point. There is a cost to the group of keeping the group running other than just "stealing professional fees" for the partners to add onto their house.
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So the partners are taking none of that extra money and it’s all going back into building and maintaining the business, right?
 
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