1st time applicant: Thoughts or advice?

[mchl8976]

1st time applicant. Becoming a doctor is what I want to do with my life and I will do whatever it takes to reach that goal. I know that I may have to do a masters program or post-bac to raise up that sGPA, but here are my stats:

Graduating August from The Ohio State University with a B.S. in Human Nutrition
cGPA: 3.24
sGPA: 2.94
other GPA: 3.62

Somewhat upward trend: last quarter 3.3 and above a 3.5 this quarter

MCAT: taking June 21st, but have been scoring 27+ on past couple practice tests (know this will be an even bigger factor in my application due to poor GPA)

EC, work and hobbies:

ER Medical Scribe: starting now and will work the job for at least a year (at least 40 hours a week)

Volunteer at OSU medical center: operating room, SICU family waiting room liason, general surgery family waiting room, interventional radiology triage (127 hours over course of couple years mostly in SICU and family waiting rooms)

Student athlete: varsity basketball during freshman year at newark branch (1year)

EHE Student ambassador: leadership group (about 1 year)

Research assistant: molecular genetics/nutrition lab on campus (1 year)

Big brother, big sister mentor (2 years)

Server at restaurant: 2 years part time

Physician shadowing: ER physician and general surgeon both MD over 70 hours and then will be shadowing a DO over summer

Misc. volunteering at church: planning committee to raise money for Mexican orphanage event (want to go on service trip this upcoming year), packing lunches for homeless

LOR:
bio professor
physics professor (first time took the class and got a D and retook and earned an A)
ER doc (for MD application)
Principle investigator of research group (for MD application)
DO I am shadowing this summer (for DO application)

I know DO is most likely my best option so I am applying to more DO than MD. I know that the MD programs I apply to will be reaches with my low sGPA. Just figured since Ohio has some schools that take a lot of students in state, I would give it a shot.

DO list: Lake Erie PA and FL, Ohio U, Lincoln Memorial, Pikeville, WVU, AT Univeristy MO and AZ, Touro NY, and New England

MD list: Ohio State, Wright State, Tulane, and NEOMED

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated especially concerning my chances and my school lists, thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[mchl8976]

Bump.

Any advice or criticism would be much appreciated!! Thanks

 

[FrkyBgStok]

You know what to do. You seem to be realistic. You aren't likely to have any luck with MD, but it is definitely worth a shot. Your sgpa might get you cut off from a couple DO schools, but I doubt it. You are being smart and applying to a good range and number of DO schools. You have good ECs. Do well on your MCAT, stay on top of your app and you should have a little luck this cycle. If you really want a chance MD, shoot for a 1 day turnaround on everything. You have to be quick.

But you are being realistic which is a big step in the right direction. Good luck.

 

[GimpGenius]

I believe NEOMED has a hard cutoff on their MCAT/GPA that's listed on their website, and it's arguably the least competitive MD school on the list. I'd have a look at the applicant data and, if you can shore up the sGPA, do it. Otherwise, I'd apply early and broadly to DO schools, with an SMP as a back-up.

 

[mchl8976]

thanks for your input. do you think that I should maybe add a few DO's on top of that or is there any other DO schools outside of that list that you would recommend I add? I have done a lot of research on what schools would fit my stats, have regional bias, etc.. and I had a few on the edge of whether I should give it a shot or no:

PCOM: philly or Georgia campus (feel like they have higher GPA and MCAT requirements)
Midwestern: Chicago or Arizona ( same reason as above)
Alabama College (know it is new but have read that they have a very high regional bias)
Kansas City: (GPA average is a lot higher)
Marian University: (new but website says to be competitive GPA is 3.2 or higher)
Campell University: (new as well but website says should have a sGPA 3.0 or higher and cGPA 3.2 or higher; also says interview and overall GPA are the two most important factors)

What do you think or if anyone else has any input that'd be appreciated as well

 

[mchl8976]

I believe NEOMED has a hard cutoff on their MCAT/GPA that's listed on their website, and it's arguably the least competitive MD school on the list. I'd have a look at the applicant data and, if you can shore up the sGPA, do it. Otherwise, I'd apply early and broadly to DO schools, with an SMP as a back-up.

thanks for your advice. I talked to someone at admissions there and they said that those requirements are not absolute but those are the competitive that they recommend. Obviously I am assuming their class GPA is well above that and I am sure their MCAT scores are around 30 at least. He said also that if your MCAT is lower than average than you have to make up for it with your GPA being higher than average or vice versa. Figured I'd still give it a shot pending if I do really well on the MCAT next week and seeing that I am an Ohio resident so we'll see.

Do you think that I should consider applying to SMP for next year along with med schools? or just wait and see what happens this cycle and go from there?

 

[mchl8976]

You know what to do. You seem to be realistic. You aren't likely to have any luck with MD, but it is definitely worth a shot. Your sgpa might get you cut off from a couple DO schools, but I doubt it. You are being smart and applying to a good range and number of DO schools. You have good ECs. Do well on your MCAT, stay on top of your app and you should have a little luck this cycle. If you really want a chance MD, shoot for a 1 day turnaround on everything. You have to be quick.

But you are being realistic which is a big step in the right direction. Good luck.

thanks for your input. do you think that I should maybe add a few DO's on top of that or is there any other DO schools outside of that list that you would recommend I add? I have done a lot of research on what schools would fit my stats, have regional bias, etc.. and I had a few on the edge of whether I should give it a shot or no:

PCOM: philly or Georgia campus (feel like they have higher GPA and MCAT requirements)
Midwestern: Chicago or Arizona ( same reason as above)
Alabama College (know it is new but have read that they have a very high regional bias)
Kansas City: (GPA average is a lot higher)
Marian University: (new but website says to be competitive GPA is 3.2 or higher)
Campell University: (new as well but website says should have a sGPA 3.0 or higher and cGPA 3.2 or higher; also says interview and overall GPA are the two most important factors)

What do you think or if anyone else has any input that'd be appreciated as well

 

[GimpGenius]

I'd advise against PCOM in Philadelphia; it's a good school, but unless it's your top choice, it might be too much of a long shot to be worth the resources. Same with Kansas City. Nothing wrong with applying to the new schools either, if you're comfortable going there (some folks are hesitant about being the first class, for varied reasons). Overall, I think you're being pretty wise in your choices as far as DO is concerned.

On the MD side, I don't think Ohio State's worth the time and money given your current/projected stats (too many 35+/3.7+ candidates, and they tend to have less in-state bias compared to other Ohio schools). Wright State's secondary last year was basically "click this button and give us money," so it might be harder to "talk yourself up" due to the lack of secondary essays.

I can't speak to Tulane at all, and although I did have significant interaction with NEOMED, I don't want to color the thread with major biases. I'd be happy to speak privately about it, though, if it's a program you're really looking into.

 

[mchl8976]

I'd advise against PCOM in Philadelphia; it's a good school, but unless it's your top choice, it might be too much of a long shot to be worth the resources. Same with Kansas City. Nothing wrong with applying to the new schools either, if you're comfortable going there (some folks are hesitant about being the first class, for varied reasons). Overall, I think you're being pretty wise in your choices as far as DO is concerned.

On the MD side, I don't think Ohio State's worth the time and money given your current/projected stats (too many 35+/3.7+ candidates, and they tend to have less in-state bias compared to other Ohio schools). Wright State's secondary last year was basically "click this button and give us money," so it might be harder to "talk yourself up" due to the lack of secondary essays.

I can't speak to Tulane at all, and although I did have significant interaction with NEOMED, I don't want to color the thread with major biases. I'd be happy to speak privately about it, though, if it's a program you're really looking into.

Yeah i think I am going to just stay clear of PCOM and Kansas City. I wanna give myself the best and most realistic shot to just get in a school. I really do not care where I get in, I just want to get in somewhere. With that being said may through in one or two of the new DO schools and take out a MD or two.

Sent a PM in regards to NEOMED because I am interested in their program.

 

[mchl8976]

Wanted to get anyone's opinion on my plan of action.

1. Rock the MCAT this Thursday

2. Apply broadly this cycle to the DO schools that I listed above and a few Ohio MD programs for the heck of it; although prob. a waste of money (Toledo, Wright State, NEOMED, and OSU)

3. Retake 3 of my sciences classes that I did poorly in. Add in another upper level science class or two. Kinda make my own post bacc in a year. Going to be hard to make though as I completed all my classes under the quarter system and Ohio State is switching to semesters this upcoming year. Trying not to make excuses for doing poorly, but some reasons I did bad are listed.

• Biochem: C ( I had a lack of maturity/study skills and had to take it over the summer in a fast paced condensed version bc one of my senior level nutrition classes required it; 10 weeks of material shoved into 5 weeks; think we had like a week to learn the TCA cycle)
• Genetics: C- (took it over the summer with the Biochem although this class was 10 weeks long; know if I retook it I'd do a lot better)
• Last OChem: C (took it at a time when I was involved with way too much extracurricular activities and was also taking over 15 quarter credit hours)

Say I earned B+ or higher in these which I know I am capable of. My DO cGPA would raise to about 3.4 and sGPA would be about 3.1 area or so.



4. Should I apply to SMP in the late fall/winter as backup plan as well? or with those classes retaken and estimated GPA would I be competitive enough for DO as a reapplicant? MD would prob be out of the question unless I went the SMP route and earned a high GPA in it. Honestly, I do not care if I get in MD vs. DO. Actually a little more interested in osteopathic medicine and want to do primary care. I just want to be a doctor and help people.

 

[Ironmandoc]

Most schools will deny you pre-secondary with below 3.0 sGPA. Keep this in mind with ANY MD schools you apply to. For DO schools, you're ok because of the grade forgiveness, but still on the low side.

Apply broadly (DO) and early...

Good luck!

 

[GimpGenius]

Game Plan...

Looks like a solid plan to me. Ironmandoc has a point about the grade cutoffs (MD schools tend to be more stringent on the GPA's), but an upward trend/kicking the snot out of the retaken courses may work in your favor (and definitely will for the DO process).

Additionally, if you can get an LOR from anyone who's friendly with a member of the admissions committee, that might help. It's still a longshot this year for MD schools, but sometimes having someone pulling for your can make the difference in which pile your file goes into.

If there's an MD program you're 100% sure you'd attend if accepted, it might also be wise to submit early decision there, and regular decision for DO. Often the ED rejections are rolled into the regular admissions process; and with the lower number of ED candidates, it's much more likely that the school will see something they like without GPA-hosing your application. Again, it's not a surefire thing, but at this point it's all about maximizing your opportunities to show you're a good candidate.

Hopefully that helps!

 

[qwerty2012]

if you can score a 28-30+, you will have chances at some DO schools. However, some do pre-screen you out if you have less than 3.0, i think TouroCom does that.

If you can do a graduate program with med classes and score 30+, you will have shot at MD schools...assuming you do well. And most DO schools.

 

[mchl8976]

thanks for everyone's responses! I submitted by DO application last week and applied broadly to a bunch of schools. My unofficial calculated cGPA was actually a 3.35 and sGPA was a 3.05 since I am retaking those classes and listed them as being repeated next year so hopefully that plays in my favor as I know I will do alot better this time around.

Just nervously awaiting for my MCAT scores to be posted. But I had a good vibe after I finished which I guess it is a good thing for what it's worth. Again appreciate the feedback and response from everyone!

 

[mchl8976]

So I got my MCAT scores back and needless to say I am disappointed about how I did. I ended up with a 26 (8 PS, 8 Verbal, 10 Bio). I pretty much am assuming that I have zero chance at MD so with that being said is it even worth filling out the secondary essays from the schools that do not pre-screen for grades? I just want to make a smart decision as I am not exactly mr. money bags.

As far as DO, I am hoping that I still have a shot at the schools that I applied to above. I actual feel like I prefer the DO route anyways as I like the philosophy and skill set that they possess. With that being said, I know my MCAT score doesn't kill me for DO but combined with my lower GPA it will hurt me.

My plan as of now is retake classes I got C's in over course of next year. (about 3 of them plus adding one course that will count towards sGPA.) If I do significantly better in those classes cGPA should be like 3.3ish and sGPA should be above 3.1 or so for DO. Retake MCAT in spring after I study for it again if I do not get any secondary applications from schools that screen or interviews this time around?

So for MD or even to boast grades for DO, Should I look into applying to SMP once winter comes along or wait and see how I do this cycle? just tough because everything is based on a once a year application cycle so I need to plan things out well in advance.

Any comments or recommendations from those with prior experience would be much appreciate?! Thanks in advance for your input/help.

 

[Temperature101]

So I got my MCAT scores back and needless to say I am disappointed about how I did. I ended up with a 26 (8 PS, 8 Verbal, 10 Bio). I pretty much am assuming that I have zero chance at MD so with that being said is it even worth filling out the secondary essays from the schools that do not pre-screen for grades? I just want to make a smart decision as I am not exactly mr. money bags.

As far as DO, I am hoping that I still have a shot at the schools that I applied to above. I actual feel like I prefer the DO route anyways as I like the philosophy and skill set that they possess. With that being said, I know my MCAT score doesn't kill me for DO but combined with my lower GPA it will hurt me.

My plan as of now is retake classes I got C's in over course of next year. (about 3 of them plus adding one course that will count towards sGPA.) If I do significantly better in those classes cGPA should be like 3.3ish and sGPA should be above 3.1 or so for DO. Retake MCAT in spring after I study for it again if I do not get any secondary applications from schools that screen or interviews this time around?

So for MD or even to boast grades for DO, Should I look into applying to SMP once winter comes along or wait and see how I do this cycle? just tough because everything is based on a once a year application cycle so I need to plan things out well in advance.

Any comments or recommendations from those with prior experience would be much appreciate?! Thanks in advance for your input/help.

You have a shot at DO since your application is already submitted. Keep us posted in your progress as far as interview invites... Good luck.

 

[mchl8976]

You have a shot at DO since your application is already submitted. Keep us posted in your progress as far as interview invites... Good luck.

thanks and I will! I am turning around the initial secondary's I have received so far as fast as I can.

 

[LaughingMan]

OP---you've already received great advice--so I'll give a different set of words.

Good luck and keep your head up high. It seems you are aware that you app is weak but you are still giving it your all and not giving up. I have a few friends who had had <3.2 and they didn't even bother to apply. I applaud and admire your dedication and feel your attitude will get you far in life.



Please keep us informed.

 

[mchl8976]

OP---you've already received great advice--so I'll give a different set of words.

Good luck and keep your head up high. It seems you are aware that you app is weak but you are still giving it your all and not giving up. I have a few friends who had had <3.2 and they didn't even bother to apply. I applaud and admire your dedication and feel your attitude will get you far in life.



Please keep us informed.

Thanks I appreciate the support! I think I have a good plan in place and I will give it my all this cycle but if things don't work out hopefully improving my grades throughout next year to 3.3+ cum. and 3.1+ sci and maybe even retaking the mcat in spring as well as maintaining my ER scribe job and doing some more volunteering/possible overseas trip will help to show the adcoms that I am doing all I can to improve myself and prove that I have what it takes.

Made a lot of mistakes with my study habits throughout my first couple years of college but I guess that all you can do is try your best, improve and see what happens. Along with having a little luck too haha

 

[mchl8976]

So I wanted to get anyone's opinion on the dilemma that I am in. I have sent back a majority of the secondary applications I have received and plan on completing the rest this weekend. I also submitted my letters of reference from my professors but I am still waiting to hear back from the DO I know about writing me a strong letter. I have a strong letter from an MD already so with that being said do you guys think I should just submit the MD letter so my applications are complete and can be reviewed and then send the DO one when I get it? or should I just wait till I get the DO letter as I know it is a very important part of the application.

Thanks for your input!

 

[FrkyBgStok]

how long until you can get the DO letter? If it is another week, wait. If it is another month, don't wait. If you aren't sure, don't wait.

 

[mchl8976]

how long until you can get the DO letter? If it is another week, wait. If it is another month, don't wait. If you aren't sure, don't wait.

Well I haven't heard back from him for over 3 weeks as of last Monday. After that 3 weeks, I sent him another email and was going to give him another week or more and then possibly call him as we have communicated by cell. I realize he is very busy and has took on some new DO fellows in July as he is pretty high up in his department so he is more busy than usually I am sure of. I just don't want to be naggy but at the same time I need the letter and we discussed it when we met a couple of weeks ago.

Idk maybe I will just call him next week and if I don't hear back from him I will just submit the MD letter. You can update your file by sending a DO letter once I eventually get one from him or someone else correct?

 

[mchl8976]

plus on the secondary applications I have already submitted I put his name down as the DO that I would be getting a letter from so I am going to look stupid if I send in a completely different one esp from an MD and not a DO.

 

[Dmr6186]

Maybe try making a phone call to his office and see if you can talk to him or leave a message? E-mails can be easy to ignore with the whole "I'll get to it" mentality. Maybe even stop by the office if he said he would definitely write you a letter.

I noticed whenever I ask for letters, one of the first questions I am asked are, "When do you need it by?" That's because everyone knows it's a time game, and I'm sure the DO doc knows this too, so don't feel like you're being too pushy when you're on a tight schedule as it is with secondaries already sent in.

 

[mchl8976]

Maybe try making a phone call to his office and see if you can talk to him or leave a message? E-mails can be easy to ignore with the whole "I'll get to it" mentality. Maybe even stop by the office if he said he would definitely write you a letter.

I noticed whenever I ask for letters, one of the first questions I am asked are, "When do you need it by?" That's because everyone knows it's a time game, and I'm sure the DO doc knows this too, so don't feel like you're being too pushy when you're on a tight schedule as it is with secondaries already sent in.

Yeah that is very true. I'll give him until Monday evening and then I'll try giving him a call.

 

[mchl8976]

I have submitted many secondary applications for DO programs and for the MD schools in state and as I anxiously wait to possibly hear back from schools I am thinking about what my plan is if I do not get any. I realize my grades are my weakest point and that this may happen.

I plan on retaking classes I earned C's in over the course of next year as well as adding a few science classes (about 16 semester credits total). With that being said, I think if I earned A- or higher in all of them i could boast my cGPA to over a 3.4 and my sGPA to over a 3.2. Now if I did that do you guys think I would be okay for next year as far as DO goes. (I know nothing is guaranteed and it wont help my MD gpa very much.) or should I also consider applying to special masters programs for next year?

Also what about the MCAT? do you guys think it would be beneficial for me to retake it come next late winter or early spring?

I am not concerned with how long it takes for me to get into medical school and I will do whatever it takes. I just want to make sure I do well with the academic aspects of my application this time around. Thanks for your help.

 

[boshtrich]

I would throw in Toledo as well. Not the greatest city in the world, but it seemed like a solid school. I really enjoyed my interview there.

 

[mchl8976]

I would throw in Toledo as well. Not the greatest city in the world, but it seemed like a solid school. I really enjoyed my interview there.

Ya I already submitted Toledos secondary last week and my file is complete there. Not holding my breath about hearing back from them for an interview bc my AMCAS Gpa is 3.18 and sGpa is a 2.85 and with a 26 mcat I am not exactly a competive applicant

 

[mchl8976]

I have submitted many secondary applications for DO programs and for the MD schools in state and as I anxiously wait to possibly hear back from schools I am thinking about what my plan is if I do not get any. I realize my grades are my weakest point and that this may happen.

I plan on retaking classes I earned C's in over the course of next year as well as adding a few science classes (about 16 semester credits total). With that being said, I think if I earned A- or higher in all of them i could boast my cGPA to over a 3.4 and my sGPA to over a 3.2. Now if I did that do you guys think I would be okay for next year as far as DO goes. (I know nothing is guaranteed and it wont help my MD gpa very much.) or should I also consider applying to special masters programs for next year?

Also what about the MCAT? do you guys think it would be beneficial for me to retake it come next late winter or early spring?

I am not concerned with how long it takes for me to get into medical school and I will do whatever it takes. I just want to make sure I do well with the academic aspects of my application this time around. Thanks for your help.

bump on the above post. Just as an update I have been marked complete on pretty much all the secondary's I have received as of early August or so but have yet to receive any interviews or any rejections. (other than being deferred by Campbell till I send them my fall semester grades). Just would like anyone's opinion on what they would do if they are in my shoes as far as MCAT retake and SMP? Thanks.