$20 eye exams

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blazenmadison

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An ad on SDN caught my eye. http://www.cohensfashionoptical.com/cohens.php

How much is your time/schooling worth? If everyone came in with a $20 coupon for your eye exams, how fast will you be living on the streets?
Here I am stressing out over exams/finals/lab practicals.....only to find out my future exams will cost as much as my 10minute haircut at Supercuts!!



Why are we selling our services for such crappy prices? At least this is better than buy 2 pairs of glasses and your eye exam FREE from America's Best.
 
An ad on SDN caught my eye. http://www.cohensfashionoptical.com/cohens.php

How much is your time/schooling worth? If everyone came in with a $20 coupon for your eye exams, how fast will you be living on the streets?
Here I am stressing out over exams/finals/lab practicals.....only to find out my future exams will cost as much as my 10minute haircut at Supercuts!!



Why are we selling our services for such crappy prices? At least this is better than buy 2 pairs of glasses and your eye exam FREE from America's Best.

The comparison is often made nowadays with all the chains that equates OD with hairdressers and what not. I say, if this keeps up, y'all should start putting out tip jars by the check out desk.

$20 exam, 2X$100 glasses *15% tip....
 
An ad on SDN caught my eye. http://www.cohensfashionoptical.com/cohens.php

How much is your time/schooling worth? If everyone came in with a $20 coupon for your eye exams, how fast will you be living on the streets?
Here I am stressing out over exams/finals/lab practicals.....only to find out my future exams will cost as much as my 10minute haircut at Supercuts!!



Why are we selling our services for such crappy prices? At least this is better than buy 2 pairs of glasses and your eye exam FREE from America's Best.


Problem is the ODs who are willing to damage the profession and cheapen themselves by working in these locations. No ODs = no commercial optometry.

At a recent dental visit they slipped in $96 of worthless procedures on me. About 5 mins worth or work and completely useless. Yes, they lost a patient. Nice to see an eye exam costs less than someone spraying flouride on your teeth for a minute ($33).
 
Problem is the ODs who are willing to damage the profession and cheapen themselves by working in these locations. No ODs = no commercial optometry.

At a recent dental visit they slipped in $96 of worthless procedures on me. About 5 mins worth or work and completely useless. Yes, they lost a patient. Nice to see an eye exam costs less than someone spraying flouride on your teeth for a minute ($33).
The problem is not the OD's themselves. The problem is the number of OD's graduating each year. It's easy to sit back in your private practice and blast OD's for working commercial, but how many OD's have you hired in the past year? How many offices in your county have hired OD's in the past year? How many offices in your state have hired OD's in the past year? There are close to 1300 OD's being created every year, and I am pretty sure there are not that many jobs in private practice being offered. Where would you like these new OD's to work? Should they open up cold and create oversaturation?

I completely agree that we have a problem with doctors charging so little for an eye exam, but just because the commercial locations get national attention doesn't mean there are no private practice OD's that do the exact same thing. I don't completely understand your disdain for commercial optometry (I have my theories) but I believe your anger is misplaced. You should direct your comments towards any doctor that charges $20 for an exam or offers a free exam with the purchase of a pair of glasses. You lose credibility when you make blanket statements about the evils of corporate optometry and ignore the evils of lowball private offices. It makes you sound like a bitter OD unhappy at how unsuccessful he is because he cannot compete with Wal-Mart.
 
technically, these coupons aren't really even legal since the doctor is "independent". But, try NOT taking them if you work there.

PS: for those playing along at home, my prices just went up again last month.
Comprehensive exam $79
Contact exam (sphere) 109
Toric exam 129
RGP/mono/bifocal 149.

FWIW I do a TON of bifocal contact lens fits. It's amazing how many patients say they've ever even had a doctor mention this as an option for them. Bring it up to ALL your presbyopic patients, you'd be suprised how many of them try it. Even if they're not successful, they're happy you're giving them options. The boomers LOVE ditching their glasses.
 
The problem is not the OD's themselves. The problem is the number of OD's graduating each year. It's easy to sit back in your private practice and blast OD's for working commercial, but how many OD's have you hired in the past year? How many offices in your county have hired OD's in the past year? How many offices in your state have hired OD's in the past year? There are close to 1300 OD's being created every year, and I am pretty sure there are not that many jobs in private practice being offered. Where would you like these new OD's to work? Should they open up cold and create oversaturation?

I completely agree that we have a problem with doctors charging so little for an eye exam, but just because the commercial locations get national attention doesn't mean there are no private practice OD's that do the exact same thing. I don't completely understand your disdain for commercial optometry (I have my theories) but I believe your anger is misplaced. You should direct your comments towards any doctor that charges $20 for an exam or offers a free exam with the purchase of a pair of glasses. You lose credibility when you make blanket statements about the evils of corporate optometry and ignore the evils of lowball private offices. It makes you sound like a bitter OD unhappy at how unsuccessful he is because he cannot compete with Wal-Mart.


I've railed on private practice docs giving away eye exams as well. There are just a lot fewer of them. I'm against it because I care about the future of optometry. No wally is running me out of business or anything like that, no other motives or reasons. It makes me mad because it causes those "oh you're not a real doctor" comments. It drives down insurance reimbursements and I have seen a lot of patients for second opinions that got terrible care at commercial joints and their 5 minute - non dilated exams. Yes there are crappers in private as well, but it doesn't seem to be as prevalent.
 
The schools pumping out hundreds of optometrists a year should be cut down to half.
 
The OD is NOT independent in NY he works for the corp.
 
I've railed on private practice docs giving away eye exams as well. There are just a lot fewer of them. I'm against it because I care about the future of optometry. No wally is running me out of business or anything like that, no other motives or reasons. It makes me mad because it causes those "oh you're not a real doctor" comments. It drives down insurance reimbursements and I have seen a lot of patients for second opinions that got terrible care at commercial joints and their 5 minute - non dilated exams. Yes there are crappers in private as well, but it doesn't seem to be as prevalent.

IN MY OPINION it has more to do with the od not the location.
 
I've railed on private practice docs giving away eye exams as well. There are just a lot fewer of them. I'm against it because I care about the future of optometry. No wally is running me out of business or anything like that, no other motives or reasons. It makes me mad because it causes those "oh you're not a real doctor" comments. It drives down insurance reimbursements and I have seen a lot of patients for second opinions that got terrible care at commercial joints and their 5 minute - non dilated exams. Yes there are crappers in private as well, but it doesn't seem to be as prevalent.
Insurance reimbursements are not driven down by commercial OD's. In fact, the only insurance that I accept that takes into account surrounding fees is VSP and that stays low because private practice OD's refuse to raise fees. When you finish your residency and get out into the real world, you will see plenty of private practice OD's working out of a closet in the back of an optical shop performing 5 minute non-dilated exams. I know it has become vogue to bash commercial OD's on sites like this and ODwire, but you are not changing anything. OD's will still have to find work when they graduate, and until the demand for new private practice OD's meets or exceeds the number of OD's graduating, there will continue to be commercial opportunities.
 
Talk about a waste of money and time...fitting bifocal contact lenses. They simply do not work 90+% of the time.

FWIW I do a TON of bifocal contact lens fits. It's amazing how many patients say they've ever even had a doctor mention this as an option for them. Bring it up to ALL your presbyopic patients, you'd be suprised how many of them try it. Even if they're not successful, they're happy you're giving them options. The boomers LOVE ditching their glasses.
 
Talk about a waste of money and time...fitting bifocal contact lenses. They simply do not work 90+% of the time.
If you are serious about this, I encourage you to try a different lens. I have been very successful with the PureVision MultiFocal. My current success rate is 85%.
 
If you are serious about this, I encourage you to try a different lens. I have been very successful with the PureVision MultiFocal. My current success rate is 85%.


Is it a center near design? Or better yet, what optical design element, in your opinion, do you feel helps with your success with Purevision?
 
Is it a center near design? Or better yet, what optical design element, in your opinion, do you feel helps with your success with Purevision?
Technically, it is a center near design, but the optical design element that makes it successful is the increase in depth of field. By inducing -0.15 microns of spherical abberation, the lens increases depth of field so that the eye no longer needs to accommodate to see from distance to near. The result is a slight blur at distance, slight blur at near, but good vision from distance to near. With both eyes open, and sometimes tweaking the distance Rx, you can be very successful with the lens with properly trained patients.
 
Insurance reimbursements are not driven down by commercial OD's. In fact, the only insurance that I accept that takes into account surrounding fees is VSP and that stays low because private practice OD's refuse to raise fees. When you finish your residency and get out into the real world, you will see plenty of private practice OD's working out of a closet in the back of an optical shop performing 5 minute non-dilated exams. I know it has become vogue to bash commercial OD's on sites like this and ODwire, but you are not changing anything. OD's will still have to find work when they graduate, and until the demand for new private practice OD's meets or exceeds the number of OD's graduating, there will continue to be commercial opportunities.

Less ODs going to commercial will mean more patients for private and thus more private opportunities.
 
Tried this one too, on patients and myself, success rate not there. I tell ALL patients bifocal contacts simply do not work and the most successful approach, hands down, is monovision.

If you are serious about this, I encourage you to try a different lens. I have been very successful with the PureVision MultiFocal. My current success rate is 85%.
 
Technically, it is a center near design, but the optical design element that makes it successful is the increase in depth of field. By inducing -0.15 microns of spherical abberation, the lens increases depth of field so that the eye no longer needs to accommodate to see from distance to near. The result is a slight blur at distance, slight blur at near, but good vision from distance to near. With both eyes open, and sometimes tweaking the distance Rx, you can be very successful with the lens with properly trained patients.

I see, sounds similiar to other bf designs (although SiHy material is a plus). I tend to agree with bournehall, and heavily favor monovision. BF designs all suffer the same shortfall, and that is a compromise in vision at either D or N or both. With proper education about expectations BF lens candidates do OK, and is probably the key element in a high success rate. I just dont have the desire, especially with the much higher success rate experienced with monovision. Thanks for your response.
 
I see, sounds similiar to other bf designs (although SiHy material is a plus). I tend to agree with bournehall, and heavily favor monovision. BF designs all suffer the same shortfall, and that is a compromise in vision at either D or N or both. With proper education about expectations BF lens candidates do OK, and is probably the key element in a high success rate. I just dont have the desire, especially with the much higher success rate experienced with monovision. Thanks for your response.
You gotta do what works best for you and your patients. If you believe monovision is the way to go, then I think you should stick with it. For me, the increase in depth of field is much different than other BF designs and has been not only very successful, but profitable as well. Good luck with whichever modality you chose.
 
Less ODs going to commercial will mean more patients for private and thus more private opportunities.
I think this is not only very optimistic, but also very naive. I sincerely wish you luck finding the perfect private practice opportunity when you finish your residency and I hope that when you do get out into the real world you will realize that we are all in this together...even the commerical doctors.
 
I think this is not only very optimistic, but also very naive. I sincerely wish you luck finding the perfect private practice opportunity when you finish your residency and I hope that when you do get out into the real world you will realize that we are all in this together...even the commerical doctors.

Ben,

I am joining an excellent private practice leading to partnership. I'm willing to take less at the beginning for the long term satisfaction and payoff. To me its naive to think that commercial optometry does not do tremendous damage to our profession.

I don't believe the sob stories of needing to feed my family with loans etc. I have a family and loans and am living off of less than $30k.
 
I think this is not only very optimistic, but also very naive. I sincerely wish you luck finding the perfect private practice opportunity when you finish your residency and I hope that when you do get out into the real world you will realize that we are all in this together...even the commerical doctors.

That's truth right there. When my dad (an OD) died, we had to fill his schedule for 2 months while the buyer got his state licence. During the time, half of the fill-in docs (who did this out of the goodness of their hearts, no compensation) were commercial ODs.

Say what you will about the entity (wal-mart, lenscrafters), but leave the actual people out of it.
 
That's truth right there. When my dad (an OD) died, we had to fill his schedule for 2 months while the buyer got his state licence. During the time, half of the fill-in docs (who did this out of the goodness of their hearts, no compensation) were commercial ODs.

Say what you will about the entity (wal-mart, lenscrafters), but leave the actual people out of it.


How hard is it to understand? Without ODs willing to work there, there would be no commercial. These patients would have to go to private practices and we could spend more time with the patients because someone isn't skimming off half the profits.

Dentistry is doing a much better job keeping commercial at bay. They seem to be more respected and make much more money on average. It is little wonder a good chunk of the public think of us only as spectacle peddlers.
 
How hard is it to understand? Without ODs willing to work there, there would be no commercial. These patients would have to go to private practices and we could spend more time with the patients because someone isn't skimming off half the profits.

Dentistry is doing a much better job keeping commercial at bay. They seem to be more respected and make much more money on average. It is little wonder a good chunk of the public think of us only as spectacle peddlers.

I think that that is far too simplistic a view. Commercial practice has been around for much longer than you or I have even been alive. Even if someone waved a magic wand tomorrow and vaporized every commercial doctor out there, nothing would change. In fact, I believe it would be worse. No government is going to let any of the large chains and all of their employees go under. If there were no ODs to work there, you would see refracting optician legislation passed in all 50 states in about 14 seconds. Even if it didn't, you would simply see a massive proliferation of something we already have too much of...private ODs doing 5 minute exams in the back of their tired old optical shops.

Regarding your partnership...I hope that works out for you. I too joined more than one private practice "leading to partnership" that never materialized because what usually happens is the following:

1) You grow the practice and now the seller wants much more money for it and you essentially end up buying yourself.
2) There is less incentive to deal you in because now the owner doctor is making good money off of your labor.
3) The owner doctor may want to sell, but the owner doctors WIFE does not.

I've experienced all three. Make sure you get everything is writing upfront or start preparing for your exodus.

Another thing that you need to realize is that if you are truly successful, commercial practices are not your competition. Dr. Chudner has said this many many times and he's dead on. Do you think that the Lexus dealer worries that there is a car dealership down the road selling Ford Tempos? Do you think the Lexus owner worries that the Ford dealer is sullying the reputation of the automobile industry?

Do you think that the people that run the Ritz Carleton sit around worrying and fretting because there is a Motel 6 or a Comfort Inn on the other side of town? Do you think they moan and groan about how Motel 6 is ruining the hotel industry and wish that they would just disappear so that all the people who like to stay at Motel 6 will now be forced to come stay at the Ritz Carleton? I don't think so. 🙄
 
I am joining an excellent private practice leading to partnership. I'm willing to take less at the beginning for the long term satisfaction and payoff.
Congratulations. I think this is how it should be for every optometrist - graduate, complete a residency, and then find an excellent opportunity in private practice. Once you make partner, I assume you will make sure that your office hires at least one new OD a year. Then, all you need to do is convince 25 other offices in your state to hire one new OD a year. Once you have accomplished that, you can work on the other 49 states so that every OD graduating every year has a private practice opportunity. At that time, we can discuss how bad corporate optometrists are. Until then you have to realize that the issue has nothing to do with commercial OD's not being willing to work for less in private practice, it's that there aren't enough legitimate private practice opportunities to place every grad.
To me its naive to think that commercial optometry does not do tremendous damage to our profession.
This is the common mantra of the disgruntled private practice OD that I am sure you heard on a site like ODWire. Before I purchased my practice in Washington, I looked very hard at opportunities in California. I saw a lot of private practice offices that were no more than an optical shop with a tiny lane stuffed into a closet in a strip mall. A lot of these offices had phoropters and slit lamps from the 60's. Forget about visual field machines or scanning lasers because they would take up valuable retail space. What's naive is the belief that a doctor in LensCrafters with brand new state of the art equipment including GDx, automated perimeter, fundus camera, corneal topographer, etc looks any less professional than some of the private practice docs I looked at buying out. Furthermore, even doctors that are in stand alone buildings seem to make the optical space the biggest part of the office. If you wonder why patients think of us as spectacle peddlers, you only have to look at how the majority of private practices run their business. I mean no disrespect, but I have been at this game a lot longer than you and I can assure you there are plenty more "7 - 4" out the door exams in private practice than any commercial basher wants to admit.

What's even more naive is to think that if every doctor left commercial today, and no new grad took their place, that we would be better off as a profession. Sure we would eliminate corporations from being involved in optometry, but we would have a serious oversupply issue. You like to think that patients would rather go to a private practice, but the sad fact is that patients will go to the least expensive option unless they have insurance. If you don't think there will be a ton of starving docs willing to see 50 patients a day at $50 an exam, you are sadly mistaken.

Once you are in your successful private practice, you will learn that there are patients that will seek out your office because they see value in going to a private practice, but the majority of your patients will come to you because you are on their insurance plan. If commercial optometry did not exist those patients would not seek out your office. They would seek out that private practice in the local strip mall advertising free eye exams with the purchase of glasses.

My advice to you and all the other young members on this forum is to focus on patient care in your office and forget about what is happening in the commercial locations. Educate your patients on the value of an optometric eye exam and treat your patients well, and you will be successful. Let the unsuccessful OD's complain about commercial optometry. I promise that you will much happier in the long run.
 
My advice to you and all the other young members on this forum is to focus on patient care in your office and forget about what is happening in the commercial locations. Educate your patients on the value of an optometric eye exam and treat your patients well, and you will be successful. Let the unsuccessful OD's complain about commercial optometry. I promise that you will much happier in the long run.

^^^

This should be posted as required reading for anyone who enters the forum. Do your research on the profession BEFORE you join, develop a specific plan on how you are going to achieve your goals once you're in the profession (insurance access KHE!), take care of your patients to the best of your ability, and be able to look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day.
 
What's even more naive is to think that if every doctor left commercial today, and no new grad took their place, that we would be better off as a profession. Sure we would eliminate corporations from being involved in optometry, but we would have a serious oversupply issue. You like to think that patients would rather go to a private practice, but the sad fact is that patients will go to the least expensive option unless they have insurance. If you don't think there will be a ton of starving docs willing to see 50 patients a day at $50 an exam, you are sadly mistaken.

Once you are in your successful private practice, you will learn that there are patients that will seek out your office because they see value in going to a private practice, but the majority of your patients will come to you because you are on their insurance plan. If commercial optometry did not exist those patients would not seek out your office. They would seek out that private practice in the local strip mall advertising free eye exams with the purchase of glasses.

My advice to you and all the other young members on this forum is to focus on patient care in your office and forget about what is happening in the commercial locations. Educate your patients on the value of an optometric eye exam and treat your patients well, and you will be successful. Let the unsuccessful OD's complain about commercial optometry. I promise that you will much happier in the long run.

Dr. Chudner as usual, comes out with a brilliant and dead on accurate posting.

In all my time in optometry I think I can count on one hand the number of patients who paid me out of pocket for services they could have covered by going to another facility.

During my tenure in commercial practice, the commercial entity accepted a number of "low ball" plans that the majority of private practices did not. I saw dozens, if not hundreds of "new" patients in there who when asked why they were at the office would say "Oh I went to Dr. Smith for 20 years but he's not on my insurance plan anymore." And these people were not the lower socioeconomic class. They were accontants, financial people, lawyers, teachers, and yes....even a few doctors. The simply walked away from a relationship they had with another doctor for years because their insurance changed.

Think about it people....I only go to doctors and dentists who are on my plan. I'm sure you do too! It's crazy to think or even expect that your patients will be any different. Dr. Chudner pointed out that many patients in private practice will come to you because they see the value of going to a private practitioner but the key to that is that you also be on the patients insurance plan.

I can't tell you how many times I have had this conversation with new patients:

"How did you find our office?"

"My friend, Joe Jones sees you and he really likes you."

"Oh, that's very nice of Joe. Thank you for coming."

Sounds good right? Of course! It happens all the time and its nice to know patients are appreciative of your efforts. However, if you are not on Joe Jone's insurance, Mr. Jones is not likely to ever darken your door.
 
^^^

This should be posted as required reading for anyone who enters the forum. Do your research on the profession BEFORE you join, develop a specific plan on how you are going to achieve your goals once you're in the profession (insurance access KHE!), take care of your patients to the best of your ability, and be able to look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day.

completely agree !! Brilliant post, Ben.

We just added Humana onto our provider panel a few months ago. The county teachers all have this insurance. The doc down the street who used to be the Humana provider is starting to hate my office because we're calling at least twice a day to get records transferred over from him. Ben is dead on about patients leaving if you're not on their panel. I have a handful of patients who pay out of pocket because they like me more than the guys on their panels, but trust me... they're few and far between.

Speaking of which, I need to get on finding a local OD with a GDx or OCT who'll let me send patients over to scan and actually give me my patients back.
 
Here is the best example to prove my point regarding patient loyalty. My former neighbor is a patient of mine. We are good friends. Our wives are good friends, and even our daughters are good friends. We play poker together once a month, and if there is a great action or sci-fi movie comming out that our wives won't go see, we usually try to catch it on opening weekend together. About 2 years ago he lost his job and had to find a new one. His new job had vision insurance through Cole Vision which is a discount plan that I do not take. You can imagine my surprise when I received a records request from Sear's for my friend's entire family. He never told me his insurance changed, and we are close enough that I know he would feel comfortable asking me for a discount if he really needed it. When I called him about it, he told me that his insurance requires him to go to a commercial practice and so that's what he did, even after told him I would give him a deal as a friend. This is someone who I am close to. Imagine what happens to all those patients that I only see once a year. They may feel loyal, but money talks. My friend has since gotten better insuance and I see his family again, just like what happens with a lot of other patients that lose and then regain good insurance. The take home point is that it does not matter how much a patient likes you or your office, if they can get a free exam somewhere else, that's where the majority of patients will go.
 
The problem is not the OD's themselves. The problem is the number of OD's graduating each year. It's easy to sit back in your private practice and blast OD's for working commercial, but how many OD's have you hired in the past year? How many offices in your county have hired OD's in the past year? How many offices in your state have hired OD's in the past year? There are close to 1300 OD's being created every year, and I am pretty sure there are not that many jobs in private practice being offered. Where would you like these new OD's to work? Should they open up cold and create oversaturation?

I completely agree that we have a problem with doctors charging so little for an eye exam, but just because the commercial locations get national attention doesn't mean there are no private practice OD's that do the exact same thing. I don't completely understand your disdain for commercial optometry (I have my theories) but I believe your anger is misplaced. You should direct your comments towards any doctor that charges $20 for an exam or offers a free exam with the purchase of a pair of glasses. You lose credibility when you make blanket statements about the evils of corporate optometry and ignore the evils of lowball private offices. It makes you sound like a bitter OD unhappy at how unsuccessful he is because he cannot compete with Wal-Mart.

irrespective of the tone, is he wrong?

in my opinion, no. walmart drives the price thru the floor. i worked for 3 of them. you are suggested a target price (aka forced). all the $$ is made in the optical. the exams are cheap.

FUTURE ODs repeat after me:

all teh $$ in optometry is made in opticals. in the markups.
 
An ad on SDN caught my eye. http://www.cohensfashionoptical.com/cohens.php

How much is your time/schooling worth? If everyone came in with a $20 coupon for your eye exams, how fast will you be living on the streets?
Here I am stressing out over exams/finals/lab practicals.....only to find out my future exams will cost as much as my 10minute haircut at Supercuts!!



Why are we selling our services for such crappy prices? At least this is better than buy 2 pairs of glasses and your eye exam FREE from America's Best.

they do it b/c the owners make there money on glasses
 
technically, these coupons aren't really even legal since the doctor is "independent". But, try NOT taking them if you work there.

PS: for those playing along at home, my prices just went up again last month.
Comprehensive exam $79
Contact exam (sphere) 109
Toric exam 129
RGP/mono/bifocal 149.

FWIW I do a TON of bifocal contact lens fits. It's amazing how many patients say they've ever even had a doctor mention this as an option for them. Bring it up to ALL your presbyopic patients, you'd be suprised how many of them try it. Even if they're not successful, they're happy you're giving them options. The boomers LOVE ditching their glasses.

it depends on the state
 
they do it b/c the owners make there money on glasses


How about this scenario.. there's a place called Eyeglass World (I have no idea if they have a doctor, it doesn't exist where I live as far as I know) in Virginia Beach, I think. A patient came in and talked to me about it last week... evidently they have some ridiculous sale where you can buy 2 complete pairs of (single vision) glasses for 59.99 OR you can buy one pair and get two free. And then he said "I haven't seen prices like that around here. I don't even care what they're made of, if they're that cheap!" 😱
 
my brother is an od who works at a couple eyeglass worlds in phoenix. he hates it.
 
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