2004 Match Results

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gryffindor

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Here they are - the stats straight from the site.

"The number of positions offered in the Match decreased overall for the first time in five years, with decreases in positions offered in all program types except PED. The number of applicants participating in the Match for GPR programs continues to decrease steadily (23% over 5 years), while AEGD programs experienced a substantial decrease in participating applicants for the second consecutive year. The increase in the number of applicants for PED programs this year represents an overall increase of 37% over 5 years. The reduction in positions offered resulted in a decrease in the number of matches in all program types except PED, as well as an overall increase in the number of unmatched applicants for the second consecutive year. The number of unfilled positions overall also decreased for the second consecutive year."

GPR
# of applicants: 632
# of total positions: 730
# of filled positions: 487
# of unfilled positions: 243

AEGD
# of applicants: 260
# of total positions: 204
# of filled positions: 121
# of unfilled positions: 83


OMS
# of applicants: 305
# of total positions: 176
# of filled positions: 165
# of unfilled positions: 11


PEDO
# of applicants: 417
# of total positions: 224
# of filled positions: 220
# of unfilled positions: 4


ORTHO
# of applicants: 512
# of total positions: 248
# of filled positions: 243
# of unfilled positions: 5

There are also a number of programs in the above categories that do not participate in the Match. Any student notified of acceptance to one of those programs have to be notified before the match and if they accept, they have to drop out of the match.

Since people on here are always freaking out about "How competitive is ____" - this should help you decide for yourself. Note: Endo, Perio, Prostho, Oral Path, Public Health, and Oral Radiology are not part of match. Acceptances for those programs are made independent of the matching system.

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IM just wondering what will happen to all of those unfilled positions? Do they give the applicants who did not get in a 2nd chance to match? I dont see how they would just leave seats open like that.
 
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The unfilled positions are made available to all dental schools and to students registered for the match at 12 pm EST. At this time, any student who did not obtain a position in the match can contact the program and inquire about the open positions.

From what I know, if the open position is in a competitive field like Oral Surgery or Ortho, they will probably invite some of the students who didn't match to interview, and then pick one to fill the spot. For the GPRs & AEGDs, it is possible for unmatched applicants to call the program and have an interview right there on the phone and get in. Or they might have the applicants fax over a CV & application materials so they can review it and decide if they want that student or not. Basically the selection process becomes very non-traditional at this point. The programs can try to fill those spots anytime between now and the start date of the program (most are in July).
 
Unless there have been drastic changes since I was involved in it 7 years ago, the unfilled positions will have 1 of 2 fates.

#1 Folks that didn't match into any programs, will pick up the telephone and makes some calls and if lucky enough get into a program this way(generally the ortho/pedo/OMFS will be filled 100% after a day or two).

#2 Those positions will just remain unfilled(guarenteed that many a GPR and AEGD will fall into this category) This can be a good and a bad things for those that did match into those programs. Good: Less residents = more procedures for you to do:clap: Bad: Less residents = more call:wow: :smuggrin: :scared: :mad:

Congrats to all those that saw the program that they wanted when they opened the envelopes this AM:clap:
 
Dr. Jeff, most of us just checked our e-mails at 9 am today and knew right away.

As for me, I'll be doing the GPR at Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York City, NY. Technically my #2 choice, but I was at a tossup between my #1 & #2 choices when I submitted the match list.

I'm gonna make the best of this residency. Everyone's goals for doing a residency are different, and I think this program offers me what I'm looking for in a GPR. I'm so excited! Good bye & thank you Buffalo, hello NYC!

Check out their website here -
http://www.mssm.edu/dent/introduction.shtml
 
I hope more people will post where they matched along with their stats and extra curriculars for the rest of us if they don't mind.
 
I was fortunate enough to match with my #1 choice in OMFS...LSU New Orleans.

Class Rank: 3/73
NDBE Part I : 97
Research: 2 projects in dschool, 3 national meetings presented at, several awards
OMFS externships : 4 (7 weeks total)

I owe it all to a wife who allowed me the time I needed to study and extern...and a bit of luck...
 
Nice work River! I think there is a Buffalo graduate currently in that OMS program.

Some stats for you UNLV:

Class rank: 12/90
NBDE I: 93
Research: 3 projects total - 2 summers in dental school, 2.5 years in undergrad, 1 paper, several abstracts (4) & presentations (5)
Activites: Too many - I was seriously overcommitted the past 3 years (YEARBOOK, tutor, shadow/volunteer, LOTS of ASDA stuff)

Applied to ortho, had interviews, but did not match this year.
Will be doing a 1 year GPR at Mt. Sinai, NY
Plan to reapply to ortho in the next cycle. My GPR already knows this and didn't have a problem with it, they were actually supportive about it at the interview.
 
Congrats river! Arent you glad all that hard work paid off? :D

Here's a horror story.....a guy in my school.......98 on boards, did not match for oms!!!!
 
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River13:

Congrats! When does your residency starting at LSU NO? I'll be there for my externship from mid May to mid June, perhaps, I'll get to meet you. I'll be assigned to a Chief Resident for the duration that I'll be there.

Damn, you've got some amazing numbers and credentials. I wonder how other SDN OMFS hopefuls did in Match? One more thing, please try to stick around here to post and share your experiences about your residency OR give us OMFS hopefuls some pointers.

Andy
 
I havent even started school yet, but I have been thinking about the possibilities of doing a GPR or AEGD. For the people who do these programs, where do you get your information about the programs from? How do you know which programs are better or what each program offers. Do you have to research each program individually on website, etc.? Even if you do that, you get biased information if you are reading what the school writes about itself. Thanks.
 
Originally posted by griffin04
Here they are - the stats straight from the site.



GPR
# of applicants: 632
# of total positions: 730
# of filled positions: 487
# of unfilled positions: 243

AEGD
# of applicants: 260
# of total positions: 204
# of filled positions: 121
# of unfilled positions: 83


OMS
# of applicants: 305
# of total positions: 176
# of filled positions: 165
# of unfilled positions: 11


PEDO
# of applicants: 417
# of total positions: 224
# of filled positions: 220
# of unfilled positions: 4


ORTHO
# of applicants: 512
# of total positions: 248
# of filled positions: 243
# of unfilled positions: 5



In th current edition of MOUTH, they have different stats. They say they got them from the ADA too but they're from 2001. How could there be such a huge difference in the # of applicants? We're talking in the thousands here.

OMS 7,540 applicants for 199 spots
Ortho 8,227 apps for 292 spots
Pedo 4,455 apps for 234 spots
 
I think the mouth numbers are from all those who applied through PASS and the smaller numbers are from those who submitted a match list.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
the short answer to your question is that the MOUTH numbers are "numbers of applications" not "numbers of applicants." So, if one person applied to/ranked 5 schools or 10 schools, that would count as 5 or 10 applications in the MOUTH article.

If you add all of those applications up in the MOUTH article, that is many times more dental students and other applicants than could possibly exist.
 
I saw that Mouth article too, and it is confusing. I think bitecys is on the right track to explaining it. There are only something like 4,000 seniors graduating this year. So take ortho for example - 8227 applications for 292 spots, according to Mouth. And then Match result says 512 applicants for 248 spots. Each of those 512 students applied to more than one program and when you add up all the programs each student applied to, you get 8227. The difference in the number of spots available is because some programs are not part of the match process, so they are not included in the 248 number.

Also, you don't always rank every program you applied to. Usually you only rank programs where you interviewed. So although I applied to 7 GPRs, I only attended 4 interviews and ended up ranking three of them.

Hope that clears it up.

Where are all the other OMS candidates? Keep us posted!
 
Congratulations to everyone who matched. Unfortunately I did not get an oms position. Depressed? Yeah..but hey I gave it a shot. Good luck to you kids next year.
James Luk
 
My friend at Marquette matched in Houston for a 6 year OMS/MD program. She scored 91 on part 1. No research - but did do an OMS externship and tutored all through dental school. Top 4 in her class. Very good interviewing skills.
 
Congrats River...way to go...hardwork paid off
 
River,

What dental school do you attend?
 
University of Lousiville in Kentucky. JTLUK001 and I are classmates.
 
JTLUK001

Don't givr up, there are eleven positions open. A couple at some great programs--Houston, UConn, MGH ect.
 
Thanks omfsapplicant.
 
True, attempt the post-match - JTLUK, If you were competitive enough to get all those interviews, it would be UConn & MGH's loss if they don't consider you for those spots. I don't know anything about Houston, but they should want you too!

I'm surprised those programs didn't fill - I'd think there would be some UConn or Harvard senior respectively who would have gotten in through the match to those programs. Such is Match, it sucks. I certainly could live without the anxiety associated with it.
 
I think MGH's interview process turned everyone off...pretty malignant from what I hear...
 
Congrats griffin!! Where is the GPR where you practice located exactly at Mount Sinai? Just wondering cause i've been there but never knew about the dental parts of the hospital. How many people are in that program? Is it one of the most competitive?
 
Dr. Rob:

I just found out that your friend at MUSoD, her name start with a "V", she's marrying one of my best friend from high school this upcoming May!

:clap:

What a small world, huh?

As matter of fact, I just talked to my friend, her fiance, last night for awhile. I may attend their wedding in Milwaukee if my final exam schedule permits!

That is awesome that she matched! I was not only pumped for them because of their upcoming wedding, but also the fact that my friend will be marring an OMFS!

:D
 
I may be at the wedding also. She is very smart and good in clinic too! I'm just impressed she can handle another 6 years of training!!
 
I just need somthing cleared up. Excuse me if my questions sound ignorant because I know nothing about the match. How does the match work, can you chose only 1 specialty when applying? Also it seems like 50% who applied for ortho got in. That seems way too much, I thought many applied and only very few lucky ones got in.
 
speter: The match works like this. A program decides if they will participate in Match or not. The more programs that participate, the more sense Match will make. Most Ortho, Pedo, OMS, GPR and AEGD programs participate in match, but there are a number in each of those categories that don't participate. If a program is not part of match, they must offer you a position before the match deadlines, because if you take that position, you must drop out of the match.

Match was designed to give every participant only 1 acceptance. This is supposed to eliminate anxiety on both the applicant and program's ends. For example, there is a super candidate for OMS who applies to 10 programs. Every single one of those programs reads his application, thinks he's great, invites him to interview. Without the match process, every single one of those programs wants this guy and accepts him. Now he's got 10 acceptances and has till a certain date (say Jan 15) to tell the 1 program he wants to attend that he's coming, and tell the other 9 he's not going. Until Jan 15, the 9 programs that he's not going to accept can't do anything to fill their spots till this guy actually says he's not coming. So the program is sitting around waiting for him to decide, and the other applicants to those 9 programs are wondering if they're gonna get into those programs and why they haven't heard anything from those programs. What program is going to say "Oh, well we're waiting for this super duper candidate to decide if he's gonna come here before we look at the rest of the losers."

With the match system, the same guy gets invited to interview at the 10 programs, and again they all want him. But this time, each program has to submit a list into the match website of which candidates they would consider for their program and what order they want them in. So even though they all put the guy as their #1 choice, they also enter other candidates they would consider in case they don't get their top picks. Our OMS guy must also submit a list of his 10 programs to the website in the order he wants to attend them in. The website has a deadline, and after the deadline they run an algorithm to match everyone up. Since everyone wanted the hypothetical candidate, he get's his #1 choice, and the 9 other programs who also wanted him, don't get him and get other people from further down their list. Basically, the match forces you to consider all programs and make your decision before an acceptance, not after so everyone can have a chance.

Most post grad programs have very few spots. Most OMS seem to be 2 students per year, Ortho and Pedo programs have between 4 and 5 new students per year (on average), and so on. Without the match system, the OMS program with 2 spots can't send out 5 acceptances b/c what if all 5 accept? They only have room for 2.

If a program is not part of match, it makes things complicated. Say our guy has his 10 interviews, and 9 of the programs participate in match and 1 doesn't. So the 1 non-match accepts him on the spot, and now he has to decide does he take the acceptance and drop out of match, or give up the acceptance and wait to see what happens in the match? Results of the match are binding and you are supposed to sign a legal contract after match saying you will be attending there, so he can't say yes to the one program and wait and see what match brings him from the other 9. He has to decide beforehand b/c you are only supposed to ever have 1 acceptance. See where the dilemma is?

You could apply to more than 1 specialty. The match for Ortho is held separately, about 7 weeks before the match for everything else. This way, the 50% who don't match into ortho have a chance to try and match into something else in the second match or make other plans. I did this - since I didn't match in Ortho this year, I entered the second match to get into a GPR. If you apply to say Pedo and OMS, you could attend interviews for both, but when you have to submit your match list to the webiste, you're gonna be forced to decide which specialty you decide to put ahead of the other one. So you have to chose at some point, better to decide before putting out the applications (it is an EXPENSIVE process). GPR/AEGD are not specialties, so applicants to specialties often apply to those as back ups and the GPR/AEGD know this will happen and take it into consideration. Also, program directors of different specialties at a school might be lunch buddies, and if they find out you are applying to both of their programs, that can't look good. It makes you look undecisive.

50% of ortho applicants getting in - I don't know why you think it's so high. Not every dental student (4000 graduating seniors each year) wants to be an orthodontist (270 - 280 spots each year). Most of the applicants are people who want ortho; most people don't just apply to see what will happen. It's too stressful and expensive to do that. A lot of ortho applicants are self selected. It's known that you should have good grades & rank & board scores to apply for serious consideration b/c it's so competitive. So if someone with a 75/90 rank and 81 on their boards is applying to ortho, they have realistically no chance unless their dad is the program director somewhere.
 
griffin04

How about this scenario: Rank 20/90 and 90 on the boards, what are the chances for ortho? or OMS?

Thanks
 
Originally posted by Mo007
griffin04

How about this scenario: Rank 20/90 and 90 on the boards, what are the chances for ortho? or OMS?

Thanks

I think there is a candidate with similar stats around this board that did not get the match and got into GPR instead.

Not to go off on a tangent is there are reason why ortho and OMS programs set the limits that they do in terms of class size?
Could you elaborate on the individualized attention and resources that they devote to the student? This has beeen sighted as a reason previously.
 
Great post Griff, it really cleared things up. Thanx
 
griffin04's post reaffirmed my belief in the SDN forums. :thumbup:
 
Blankguy-

Just like it takes so many wizzies, root canals, crowns, mod's, etc to be a good dentist, it takes so many le forte I, II, III fractures, orthognathic surgeries, sedations, rhinos, blephs, etc to be a good oral surgeon. The best programs have a great volume of all aspects. Adding more residents into the mix waters things down...you can see the spectrum already in various programs...ones that have as many residents as possible to still be accredited, and ones that could add twice the number of current residents if the program director so chose...the latter are the more coveted typically.
 
Wow! Really nice post griffin.
 
Originally posted by Mo007
How about this scenario: Rank 20/90 and 90 on the boards, what are the chances for ortho? or OMS?

I don't sit on any post-grad committees (not yet), I can only comment on what I've seen in post-grad admissions from those with acceptances that I've talked to. I think in either specialty, with those stats, you are definitely not a shoe-in. With some connections (like the Program Director loves you - seen it happen), you may get in on the your first try. If you don't, you have to strenghten your application with something and try again if that's what you really want. It's not impossible, b/c you always hear of people getting into OMS and Ortho with an 86 on the boards and so on. Basically, be persistent, strengthen your app after graduation, and try to make some friends in the right places if those are your stats and OMS/Ortho is what you really want.

blankguy, I think River answered your question pretty well. There is also a physical limitation in how many residents a program can take. If an ortho program only has 15 chairs available and it is a 3 year program, then they can't take more than 5 students per year. Where would they put a 16th person if they did take him? And even though most OMS take only 2 students per year, there are 6 years of students in the program at any given time (if it is a 6yr MD program). That means there are actually 12 (6 x 2) people in the program, 2 per year.
 
Mo007--
I don't think you are as bad off as people are making it sound. Speaking from the omf perspective, if you are willing to apply to 2nd/3rd tier programs, you should be ok. I would only reccomend that you decide now. You need to get those externships out of the way (a must in omf), amongst other activities to strengthen your app.

Rivers--
You seem to be the #s guy, Why don't you list the top and bottom five in your interview experince. I think this would help people put together their app. lists.
 
An important clarification should be made with regard to the match percentage for ortho positions...it may have been made already...not sure. Anyway, it's NOT 50% of those who APPLIED who ended up getting a position...it's approximately 50% of those individuals invited to INTERVIEW who matched...getting the interview is a big hurdle and by far, not everyone who applies gets an interview...only a small minority of applicants, about 10% get an interview at any given program. So taking this into consideration, it's quite a bit more challenging to get a spot.
 
Wow - thats probably as tough as it can get.

I wonder where the top OMS and Ortho programs in the nation are? and the # of chairs they have? Does it matter where you did your postgrad in the job market afterwards?
 
Originally posted by omfsapplicant
Mo007--
I don't think you are as bad off as people are making it sound. Speaking from the omf perspective, if you are willing to apply to 2nd/3rd tier programs, you should be ok. I would only reccomend that you decide now. You need to get those externships out of the way (a must in omf), amongst other activities to strengthen your app.

omfsapp - This was my feeling too about OMS programs, but I didn't want to suggest something I don't know too much about. I wanted to say that with a 20/90 rank and 90 on Part I, you have a better chance at getting into OMS than ortho if you are applying in your senior year of dental school.

Even if a program is 2nd or 3rd tier, isn't what you put into it what you will get out of it? I'm just trying to think of it in terms of ortho programs - there are the programs that are supposedly "real good" ortho programs out there. But I've had several people tell me it doesn't matter - any program will enable you to become an orthodontist. From my experiences, I felt that as long as you put in the effort, it's upto you to become a good orthodontist regardless of the program's reputation. I would think the same goes for OMS.
 
OMFS app--I am for sure the numbers guy! I hate to list programs because invariably someone goes there and will get bent outta shape...oh well...

OMFS programs I interviewed at with the most of everything strictly numbers-wise (implants, sedations, wizzies, orthognathics, trauma, cosmetics), taken from numbers given to me at interviews, and these are PER RESIDENT, to make up for a program that does a lot of procedures but has like 30 residents:

1. LSU New Orleans/Charity Hospital
2. University of Alabama
3. Univ. Texas Southwestern/Parkland Memorial Hospital

All three had a ton of numbers in all of the aforementioned areas, though LSU New Orleans had the most of everything. Other places I went and liked but didn't compare to the above 3 schools in numbers:

VCU/MCV: not as many implants
Indiana: not as complex trauma cases, not as many orthog. cases, little cosmetics
Knoxville: not as many implants or orthog. cases, little cosmetics
Louisville: not as much cosmetic surgery or complex orthog. cases
LSU Shreveport: not as many implants
UPENN: almost no implants
Un. Nebraska: not much trauma
Oregon: not as many implants or as many orthog.


Here's a list of programs that refused to show numbers even when asked by interviewees:
Minnessota
Nebraska
UPENN
Another one I'm forgetting...

Minnesotta seemed well balanced too, but they wouldn't show numbers when I asked for them...

Now before I get flamed, I just want to say that numbers aren't everything and I would have gladly gone to any of the schools I interviewed at because I feel that they all produce great surgeons...as my program director says, great schools can turn out mediocre surgeons and mediocre schools can turn out great surgeons...Ed Ellis admitted in my interview that the program he went to was mediocre at the time, but he took the initiative to read everything that's ever been written on OMS since the dawning of time...and now he's considered one of the best...

Another thing would be if you were interested in cancer or craniofacial surgery?I didn?t include them in my ranking above.
Having said that, I can also tell you about the chief resident I watched who was at a program that got such poor numbers and poor surgical experience that he was still hesitant to cut w/only a couple of months to graduation....


As per Griffin, OMS is less competitive than Ortho and Endo w/o a gpr...with a gpr, endo is less competitive than OMS IMHO.

One last point...they always say you never actually train at the program you interview...lots of things will change by the time you get to the meat and potatoes of the residency...attending turnover, etc.
 
River13,

Just out of curiosity, where do you go to dental school? I have a buddy that just got into LSU's OMFS program as well. I'm going to have to visit him for Mardi Gras and if I get to do an externship down there. Anyway, congratulations and good luck!
 
Do you submit your application for the match at the end of your Junior year?
 
calculus: Louisville
speter: end of junior year is a good time to get a match number, and before you apply through PASS, so you can list it on your PASS application
 
River13

Can you be matched while you are still in your 3rd year? when is the earliest you can get accepted to an OMS program (assuming you satisfied all the conditions)?
 
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