2004 Match Results

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4th year is the earliest you could be matched officially
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as in the 2nd half of 4th year? when is the earliest you can apply to PASS?
 
I was just wondering about something and maybe someone can clarify for me, because I have heard quite a few different perspectives on this issue in regards to applying for specialties.

GPA and test scores are very important, but clinical work or "natural talents" and evaluations of such skills might be able to override the average GPA from didactic courses, is that true or false?
Granted that a student who has a great 3.7 or 3.8 GPA means that he did very well in didactic classes as well as receiving good grades in clinic, but what about a student who has less competitive GPA, say around 3.3 yet has some sort of God-given artistic handskills and works at great speed in the clinic etc....would he compete better than the students with high GPA during the specialty application process?

i am asking because I know of some students that have very average GPAs and scores and supposedly they are natural talents in the clinic, and have gotten into ortho... and i am not sure if that is just a rumor to put down the applicant who got in because of hardwork, talents, high scores and a high
GPA that others don't now about and are only making speculations...

I know every case and application is different... but if I can only get a dime for every time I hear someone way, "dont worry too much about your GPA, do well in your clinical work and you can get into a specialty so much easier"

Anyways, just thought I would toss this out there for discussion...
 
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westside: its possible but unlikely...w/o a high gpa interviews would be slim to none...I believe its happened, but extremely rarely...more like a myth IMHO

M007: 2nd 1/2 of 4th year is earliest you could be matched, summer between 3rd and 4th year is earliest you could fill out PASS appl.
 
Westside, were the kids you knew that got into ortho sons/daughters of dentists/orthodontists?
 
When does someone find the time to interview for programs?
Is it done between 3rd and 4th year break or some other time?
 
is it possible to concurrently apply to ortho and OMS through PASS?
 
Mo007 said:
is it possible to concurrently apply to ortho and OMS through PASS?
Click to expand...

The answer is yes, kind of. Ortho match is done before any other specialty, including OMS. So you can apply to both programs in the same year just at different times.
 
is there a disadvantage to the applicant if ortho directors find out his/her other postgrad intentions (like OMS)? and vice-versa. Any detriments of applying to multiple different postgrad fields (endo, pedio.. etc)?
 
Westside22 said:
GPA and test scores are very important, but clinical work or "natural talents" and evaluations of such skills might be able to override the average GPA from didactic courses, is that true or false?
Granted that a student who has a great 3.7 or 3.8 GPA means that he did very well in didactic classes as well as receiving good grades in clinic, but what about a student who has less competitive GPA, say around 3.3 yet has some sort of God-given artistic handskills and works at great speed in the clinic etc....would he compete better than the students with high GPA during the specialty application process?
Click to expand...

Westside22: To answer your question, it would depend on the specialty to some extent. I still think the more competivite ones will tend to weed out applications based on the numbers alone. To use the example you gave about the students getting into ortho - it could happen. I've learned that high numbers are a good way to get into ortho for sure, but who you know and where you are can be just as important in some cases. If those great clinical skills of the 3.3 student you described translates to good grades in clinic and boosts the student's GPA way up, then yes, it can work in the scenario you describe. But clinic can be a variable b/c grading is subjective. For example, at my school, good handskills and great speed in clinic do not always translate to a good grade (believe me, I've been on the short end of this stick 3 semesters in a row).

spooky42: Interviewing is done in the fall semester of senior year. Ortho interviews start around late September and go till early November b/c the Match list is due in mid-November. The other programs that participate in PASS (GPR, AEGD, Pedo, OMS) start somewhere in October and go till early January at the latest b/c the Match list is due in early-mid January. All other specialties & programs (Endo, Prostho, Perio, Oral Path, etc) interview in the fall and probably earlier in the semester, but they aren't really on any time schedule b/c they can accept candidates at any time since they don't participate in Match and don't have to follow the Match deadlines.

Interviewing for Ortho, OMS, and Pedo can be a real pain b/c many times, the program will only have 1 or 2 days where they will interview everyone. If you can't make those dates or it conflicts with another interview, tough luck b/c they will find another candidate to take your spot. I found myself interviewing at an East coast ortho program on Monday morning, flying to the West coast for an ortho interview on Tuesday morning, and making it back to Buffalo on Wednesday morning to see a patient in clinic b/c taking time off from clinic is also not forgiven at many schools. GPR interviews can be a bit more flexible. I was able to arrange one of my GPR interviews to be during the winter holidays so I didn't have to miss anymore school, and one program interviewed its candidates on Sunday, so that was also nice.

Mo007: Yes, you could apply to Ortho and OMS concurrently through PASS. However, if you did that, you are using OMS as your "back up plan" to Ortho. You would know in early December if you get a spot in Ortho or not and if you do, you forfeit any chance you had at OMS. If you don't get a spot in Ortho in December, then you could enter the second match to see if you get an OMS spot in January. If OMS is really your first choice, you can't get any Ortho acceptances b/c you will miss the December date when Ortho matches are announced since you will be waiting for the January date when OMS match results come out - in this case, you would have wasted a ton of money applying to both.
 
griffin04 said:
you would have wasted a ton of money applying to both.
Click to expand...

How much exactly are we speaking of?
 
Mo007 said:
How much exactly are we speaking of?
Click to expand...

Hmmmm....... Actually, I never sat down and added it all up. Let's do it now, since you asked and I'm sorta curious myself.

Application
PASS fee for 22 programs (Ortho, GPR & AEGD): $1175
Individual School application fees: $1030
Register for the Match: $60
Order transcripts from UB Dental: $95
Order transcripts from the ADA for NBDE scores: $160
GRE exam fee: $115
GRE additional transcripts: $90
Mailing stuff: $40

Interviews
Flights: $1100
Hotel: $160
Taxis, trains, etc: $250

Approximate Estimate of total spent: $4275

But this is a conservative estimate; I think I easily spent closer to $4500, maybe even $5,000.

Some explaning:
I applied to 20 something ortho programs and 7 GPR/AEGD programs. Not all programs I applied to participated in PASS, so the 22 programs for PASS doesn't represent the total # of places I applied. Many ortho programs that do participate in PASS still require you to send a bunch of supplemental crap and a hefty application fee. The ones that don't participate basically want everything you sent to PASS and a hefty application fee. Application fees for programs ranged from $10 to $100. PASS costs $175 for the first program, and $45 for each additional.

Luckily, my undergrad college didn't charge me for the transcripts I got from them. Just about every ortho & GPR/AEGD wanted an undergrad transcript - no clue what they do with it.

Some ortho programs want GRE scores and won't look at your application without them. I took it so I could increase the # of programs I applied to.

Flights: Many places will invite you like 2 weeks, maybe 3 weeks, before the interview date so that doesn't leave a lot of time for booking cheap flights, especially while trying not to miss too much school. I got a last minute interview invite 2 days before the interview at one school; I was lucky my dad drove me to that one. I stayed with friends at as many places I could to cut the hotel cost. Cab fares addeed up pretty fast at all my interviews except in NYC where I managed to take the subway.

For your other question, you could apply to more than one specialty. But go back and read my post somehwere on the second page of this thread as to why it's not really feasible to do that b/c I really think your question is answered in that post. The chances of you holding two acceptances to post-grad dental programs are very slim b/c in most cases, taking an acceptance is a binding contract, so it doesn't do you any good to apply to 2 specialties. However, applying to a GPR/AEGD program as a back up to specialty is alright and won't be questioned too much (hopefully). This isn't like dental school admissions where if you apply early, you could potentially be holding 8 acceptances on December 1 and have like 6 more weeks after that to agonize over your decision of which 1 dental school you will attend. Doesn't work that way.
 
Thanks griffin,
as always very helpful info
 
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All good stuff from Griffin. One more thing...if programs get wind that you're applying to both ortho and oms you could really get screwed because it would be viewed as lack of committment to either specialty. This word could get out via your classmates or program directors at your school and be sent via letters of rec...at least at my school, everyone talks and everyone knows who wants to specialize in what, so getting good letters of rec from both ortho and oms departments would be impossible because they talk too...
 
griffin04,

Very useful and Informative post - as usual.
 
River13 said:
...so getting good letters of rec from both ortho and oms departments would be impossible because they talk too...
Click to expand...

Yes, but I've seen ortho acceptances without any letters from the orthodontic department in the file. Our ortho dept is so unfriendly to the undergrad dental students, it is practically worthless to even get a letter from them. I wouldn't say the same about our OMS dept., b/c that department actually has conversations with us undergrad dental students and doesn't mind us being around. So technically, you could get away with getting good letters supporting each specialty application, but it would be very hard to keep it under wraps. If you don't tell anyone, then no one will know. But if you casually mention to your friends or the faculty that you are applying to both specialties, people might not question your decision, but they do like to gossip. So word can get out to other programs about you (it's a small academic community out there) and your dual application could hurt you. And at some schools, one person is in charge of handling the mail for post-grad applications for multiple specialty departments, so it will probably raise some eyebrows when your dual application comes in to the centralized place.

River gave good advice on this.
 
griffin04

Can consecutive applications instead of concurrent ones be used to avoid the gossip issue, and what are the pros and cons of doing that?
 
Griffin04...River13,
Thank you for all this information you are providing.It is nice to know in detail about the application process. Any Endo applicants out there...........straight out of school.I would love to hear from them.

Thanks
 
I matched to an Ortho program this year without any letters from the ortho department, or from an orthodontist for that matter. Some programs explicitly asked for a letter from the chair of the ortho department...I simply didn't send one and not once in any of my 11 interviews did someone question why. I figured it would be more informative for the admissions committee to hear from individuals who could judge my aptitude, clinical skills etc. I had never even seen the chair of the ortho department at my school prior to applying. Believe me, a neutral letter can hurt you just as bad as a positive one...so be careful who you ask and be sure the person you ask for a letter knows you sufficiently well. I may have gone off on a tangent here...but it's all relevant.
 
I matched to an Ortho program this year without any letters from the ortho department, or from an orthodontist for that matter. Some programs explicitly asked for a letter from the chair of the ortho department...I simply didn't send one and not once in any of my 11 interviews did someone question why. I figured it would be more informative for the admissions committee to hear from individuals who could judge my aptitude, clinical skills etc. I had never even seen the chair of the ortho department at my school prior to applying. Believe me, a neutral letter can hurt you just as bad as a positive one...so be careful who you ask and be sure the person you ask for a letter knows you sufficiently well. I may have gone off on a tangent here...but it's all relevant.
 
On the above post...I meant a neutral letter can hurt you just as bad as a negative one....although most of whom have read the post probably assumed that was my intent.
 
DocDrtySanchez

To have all those 11 interviews for ortho programs, you must have had a top notch board scores... could you please share your class rank/GPA/board stats with us?

Thanks
 
I've posted my stats in a similar thread some time back...here they are again.
I had a 97 overall on part I
99 Anatomic Sciences
99 Micro-Path
98 Biochem-Physio
93 Dental Anatomy

My overall GPA at the time of my application was 3.7/4.0
My overall rank at the time of my application was 6/92
 
DocDrtySanchez said:
I've posted my stats in a similar thread some time back...here they are again.
I had a 97 overall on part I
99 Anatomic Sciences
99 Micro-Path
98 Biochem-Physio
93 Dental Anatomy

My overall GPA at the time of my application was 3.7/4.0
My overall rank at the time of my application was 6/92
Click to expand...


:eek:

Cheesus! That probably puts you in the top 2% in the nation easily. Which school are you attending?

:thumbup:
 
Mo007 said:
griffin04

Can consecutive applications instead of concurrent ones be used to avoid the gossip issue, and what are the pros and cons of doing that?
Click to expand...

Not entirely sure what you are referring to. If you mean consecutive like you apply to Ortho in senior year, don't get in, and then apply to OMS the following year then I don't think that's such a huge deal. Especially if your application shows that you have a new found interest in OMS in the extra year. At our school, the only office that might ask you any questions is the Student Affairs office about why you're switching specialties. I swear the Ortho dept doesn't know the OMS dept exists here, and vice versa.

If that's not what you were talking about, then clarify your question.
 
DocDrtySanchez said:
I've posted my stats in a similar thread some time back...here they are again.
I had a 97 overall on part I
99 Anatomic Sciences
99 Micro-Path
98 Biochem-Physio
93 Dental Anatomy

My overall GPA at the time of my application was 3.7/4.0
My overall rank at the time of my application was 6/92
Click to expand...

Jesus christ! What are you superman! :eek:

Just be careful in flashing those stats publicly, it might be construed by some as showing off.
 
River-- I have recently started reading this forum and noticed some of your postings. I think we met during our interviews at Louisville and Nebraska. I was just wondering where you matched.
 
LSU N.O.!! First choice :). How bout yourself?
 
Congratulations, I have heard that is a great program. I matched at Mayo, my first choice.
 
oms1 said:
Congratulations, I have heard that is a great program. I matched at Mayo, my first choice.
Click to expand...
What was your stats to get into Mayo's OMS program?
 
Congrats OMS, that's awesome!
 
I was wondering if any OMFS residents or anybody else has any last minute suggestions on preparing to start a residency, like study anatomy or read certain texts etc... Thanks
 
1. Its never too early to start studying for step 1, but dont kill yourself
2. Dont go into it thinking you need to know everything. Its a six year program for a reason
3. Relax before you start, read about things as you encounter them. Otherwise you tend to forget quickly.
4. Brush up on clinic things. i.e. drugs for sedation, abx therapy and the different indications you would use them for.

I'm just finishing my second year of six. Looking back it seems like time is flying by

My little anecdote I like to tell people "The years fly by, but each day lasts for f---ing ever.

No matter what they tell you about reading for oral surgery, remember most places wont keep you if you dont pass step 1.
 
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