2008 pathology applicants

[docbiohazard]

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So, just wondering if anybody else ever gets that occasional nagging doubt about another speciality? I enjoyed my outpatient derm rotation a month or so ago, and it had me thinking "man, maybe derm -> dermpath wouldn't be a bad way to go"... I had occasional similar nagging doubts about pediatrics (hospitalist) a few months back.

Then I remind myself that I never ever woke up in the morning thinking "Oh boy, I get to go see patients today!" nor did I ever enjoy rounding or clinic. In reality, it was more the people I was working with than the work itself. This contrasts to Pathology, where I enjoy the problem solving, the hands on work, the microscopic work and the fact that it dovetails nicely with my research interests - and I've liked the people I work with!

Anyway, just wondered if anybody else ever had these sorts of nagging doubt. I figure it's not uncommon during this time of year for MS4s as interviews approach, sorta like the occasional cold feet when you're getting ready to get married...

BH

 

[Arctic Char]

i'm just starting to jump on the path bandwagon (MS3), and you've described a lot of the same setiments i have. i'm starting to see the light . . .

 

[ustmd2006]

hey guys,

congrats to all who've been getting the invites...

just a question...when is it time to panic? i mean, for those of us who haven't heard from as many programs as we'd like, is it time to apply to more? or is it too late to even apply to any more programs?

i'd appreciate any advice...

thanks!

 

[King Arthur]

hey guys,

congrats to all who've been getting the invites...

just a question...when is it time to panic? i mean, for those of us who haven't heard from as many programs as we'd like, is it time to apply to more? or is it too late to even apply to any more programs?

i'd appreciate any advice...

thanks!

I have no idea when it's time to panic, but if i were dissatisfied with the number of interviews, i would certainly apply now to more programs.

 

[mlw03]

I have no idea when it's time to panic, but if i were dissatisfied with the number of interviews, i would certainly apply now to more programs.

yeah, it's mid-oct. i would agree that if i didn't have at least 5-7 interviews i'd start sending out a few more apps at this point.

 

[Path08]

yeah, it's mid-oct. i would agree that if i didn't have at least 5-7 interviews i'd start sending out a few more apps at this point.

Has anybody heard back from Columbia or Cornell? Has anybody applied to these programs? Thanks, 🙂

 

[sinnet]

This waiting is awful. I have only one interview thus far, 5 rejections. I applied in late Sept to 69 programs. I am extremely worried. Do you guys suggest that I start calling programs to check the status of my application (and to relieve some of the anxiety)? By the way, I am a 2005 IMG with average credentials.

 

[Tiki]

Has anybody heard back from Columbia or Cornell? Has anybody applied to these programs? Thanks, 🙂

I've applied and have not heard back yet. I know that someone has already recieved a rejection from them, so I'm thinking it's a good sign that at least I haven't gotten a rejection.

 

[Path08]

I've applied and have not heard back yet. I know that someone has already recieved a rejection from them, so I'm thinking it's a good sign that at least I haven't gotten a rejection.

OK, that gives me some hope... 😉

 

[gbwillner]

Has anybody heard back from Columbia or Cornell? Has anybody applied to these programs? Thanks, 🙂

Cornell HAS started giving interviews. I heard from someone who heard from someone that they have a very limited number of spots this year.

 

[King Arthur]

columbia sent out invites about 2 weeks ago at least.

 

[Path08]

Thanks for the update on Cornell and Columbia. I also heard Cornell has 3 or 4 positions this year as compared to 7 last year (it's not official information though)

 

[docbiohazard]

So yesterday I recieved my final reply from all the places I applied. Still considering adding one but not quite sure. I'll decide over the weekend.

Still I recieved all my invites before my MSPE ever went out. I find this somewhat amusing... anyone else have similar experience?

BH

 

[gbwillner]

So yesterday I recieved my final reply from all the places I applied. Still considering adding one but not quite sure. I'll decide over the weekend.

Still I recieved all my invites before my MSPE ever went out. I find this somewhat amusing... anyone else have similar experience?

BH

I have heard back from 8/12 programs... and I still don't have my transcript submitted, let alone the Dean's letter...

 

[Tiki]

Has anybody heard back from Columbia or Cornell? Has anybody applied to these programs? Thanks, 🙂

I just heard from Columbia. Still no word from Cornell, but I'm going to stay hopeful until I recieve a rejection.

 

[mlw03]

i've heard from 17/22 all before november 1. not surprising to me since i don't think the MSPE really provides that much useful information

 

[vr4nut]

Still I recieved all my invites before my MSPE ever went out. I find this somewhat amusing... anyone else have similar experience?
BH

24/27 so far.

MSPE = worthless. At least in mine, there is not a single piece of information that is not on my ERAS or ERAS documents. If programs wait that late to send out invites, they will get a lot of rejections. Some people already have no more days available to take off for interviews (some schools have very stupid absence policies).

On the other hand, if anyone hasn't heard from enough places, I would say yes, apply to more. Also there is still hope for all programs, because if anyone needs to cancel an interview, that spot may be up for grabs!

 

[longlakeboy]

Hey all-

I just submitted my applications a week and change ago... Gotten 2 interviews so far, still waiting on 10 or 11 programs... How long did it take to get the bulk of your interviews?

I'm quietly starting to freak out that I've only gotten 2 responses in 10 days, I can't decide if the freaking out is justified or not.

 

[ataktos]

long lake,
You submitted your application only days ago so I wouldn't be too concerned just yet....of course, that depends on the details of your application and the particular programs you applied to (as it does for all of us)....but patience can be a difficult lesson, no?

 

[longlakeboy]

long lake,
You submitted your application only days ago so I wouldn't be too concerned just yet....of course, that depends on the details of your application and the particular programs you applied to (as it does for all of us)....but patience can be a difficult lesson, no?

Got that right about patience!

Anyway, I'm basically applying to every program in Chicago and St. Louis and most in New York, so it kind of runs the spectrum (WashU to SLU, UC to Loyola, Columbia to St. Vincent's)...

I think I'm a pretty strong candidate: definitely in terms of grades and Step 1 score, though a little light on extra activities. I am still waiting for what I think is my best letter... And have been for a three months now, though he assures me it's on the way 🙁

 

[malchik]

Hey all-

I just submitted my applications a week and change ago... Gotten 2 interviews so far, still waiting on 10 or 11 programs... How long did it take to get the bulk of your interviews?

I'm quietly starting to freak out that I've only gotten 2 responses in 10 days, I can't decide if the freaking out is justified or not.

I submitted my app minus LORs two weeks ago and also only have 2 interviews, oddly enough from probably the most competitive places on my list. I'm considering contacting in about a week the programs that I haven't heard from.

 

[oxygen]

Anybody got rejection or interview from wake forest? I applied on sep 3rd and never heard anything from them. Please advice. Thanks.

 

[mlw03]

we're trying to keep the other thread just for interviews, so let's respond to that very good question in this thread. below is raspberry's post:

Hey y'all,
Im a newbie to this site. It's good to hear that Mayo and Uni. of Colorado haven't sent out invites yet.

My first interview was yesterday and I was asked a question that puzzled me as well as my interviewer.

Why is there such a growing interest in pathology? It's probably not the media... there has always been shows out there like Quincy, CSI.. ect. I'm puzzled. Can any of you help me out there??

Thanx


i would have answered, "i don't know why others are interested in pathology, but here's why i am." and then answer that. i think this brings the interview back to you, the candidate, rather than the more esoteric question of why increased interest overall. which i'm not sure i agree with 100% anyway. look at last year's match stats (http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf) - there's over 200 of the 500+ pathology pgy-1 spots being filled outside the match each year, and while some of those are probably americans switching from other fields, i bet plenty are still FMGs.

but if you accept the premise of the question i think the main reason is lifestyle. increasingly med students are wanting to balance work and personal life, and pathology, if not during residency than surely in private or academic practice, lends itself to that. few 12 hour days, little call, and a very liveable salary. plus, when med students explore pathology they see it's a wonderfully cerebral field with very little mindless scutwork. even grossing requires thought and technique to appropriately sample a specimen. and pathology is such a diverse field. the only other specialty that has as much variability in fellowship options is internal medicine, i think.

but it is a good thing for us applicants to think about. thanks for posting!

 

[Purpura]

we're trying to keep the other thread just for interviews, so let's respond to that very good question in this thread. below is raspberry's post:

Hey y'all,
Im a newbie to this site. It's good to hear that Mayo and Uni. of Colorado haven't sent out invites yet.

My first interview was yesterday and I was asked a question that puzzled me as well as my interviewer.

Why is there such a growing interest in pathology? It's probably not the media... there has always been shows out there like Quincy, CSI.. ect. I'm puzzled. Can any of you help me out there??

Thanx


i would have answered, "i don't know why others are interested in pathology, but here's why i am." and then answer that. i think this bring the interview back to you, the candidate, rather than the more esoteric question of why increased interest overall. which i'm not sure i agree with 100% anyway. look at last year's match stats - there's over 200 of the 500+ pathology pgy-1 spots being filled outside the match each year, and while some of those are probably americans switching from other fields, i bet plenty are still FMGs.

but if you accept the premise of the question i think the main reason is lifestyle. increasingly med students are wanting to balance work and personal life, and pathology, if not during residency than surely in private or academic practice, lends itself to that. few 12 hour days, little call, and a very liveable salary. plus, when med students explore pathology they see it's a wonderfully cerebral field with very little mindless scutwork. even grossing requires thought and technique to appropriately sample a specimen. and pathology is such a diverse field. the only other specialty that has as much variability in fellowship options is internal medicine, i think.

but it is a good thing for us applicants to think about. thanks for posting!

Very useful post!!

thank you

 

[raspberry009]

Thnx mlw - haha you should have really seen me sweatin' it when he asked me that question. Thanks to your answer I will have better chances in the future. I appreciate the help.

 

[oxygen]

for let us know your cancellations.

 

[schrute]

so what are everyone's thoughts on 'keeping in touch' with programs you're interested in. various people have told me different things...

 

[raspberry009]

It sounds like there are a ton of people interviewing in Boston. I was all excited about getting my Harvard interview, but now, frankly, it seems like everyone is interviewing in Boston. How many people are they interviewing?? It seems like A TON! And if so, how in the world are they going to keep us separate from each other?? 😎

 

[Sean2tall]

It sounds like there are a ton of people interviewing in Boston. I was all excited about getting my Harvard interview, but now, frankly, it seems like everyone is interviewing in Boston. How many people are they interviewing?? It seems like A TON! And if so, how in the world are they going to keep us separate from each other?? 😎

I would guess it is at least partly the selection bias of having so many cream of the crop applicants on here (myself excluded of course 😉), and with Harvard having 3 different programs in Boston, a lot of people would at least be applying there. According to FREIDA the three programs interview something like 7-10 people for every 1 spot, which does seem like a fair few to me. And then there are also BU and Tufts, so a lot of spots altogether in the city. I liked BU myself, but I'm not going to hype it too much because there's plenty of competition already! 😉 I know what you mean about blending in with the crowd. I was figuring I would send a letter or two to my favorites later in the cycle so as not to be forgotten.

 

[mlw03]

i was about to respond, but sean's answer was just what i was gonna say. check FREIDA to see how many applicants a place interviewed last year, and figure this year will be similar. i agree with sean that there's probably a little sampling bias here in this forum.

 

[Sean2tall]

i was about to respond, but sean's answer was just what i was gonna say. check FREIDA to see how many applicants a place interviewed last year, and figure this year will be similar. i agree with sean that there's probably a little sampling bias here in this forum.

Err sampling bias, whoops. You can tell I probably missed my "what kind of bias" questions on Step 2.

 

[yaah]

It cycles every year. Last year it seemed like everybody on the forum was applying to and interviewing at UVA, as one example. I think it's just randomness when one particular program seems to be overrepresented in the applicant pool on the forums.

 

[bestin world]

Plz guys if anybody has info about this Program Plz answer this post.Thank you very much

 

[marmotjones]

I haven't really kept up with this site but lately renewed some interest and have found some good information. I was wondering if anyone has any information regarding University San Diego and the program down there. I am in the process of streamlining my interview schedule and have started to reject a lot of interview offers and to cancel some I had scheduled. Probably isn't the best of ideas but just logistically makes more sense for me. Additionally, if anyone has feelings on UofM or Cleveland Clinic as well I'd like to compare to my personal impressions to get a better idea since i've done the interviews already. Hard to figure out the truth beyond the sales pitch.
Interviews still need to do:
MGH
BIDMC
Brigham and Womens
BU
University of Chicago
Northwestern
Loyola
Stanford
University San Diego?

and then some others which I think are vulnerable to the cut. I had applied to a lot of places as in i was doing the application while traveling and it was difficult to do much in the way of research regarding the programs while i was on the road. Also has anyone heard from UCSF. Still waiting to hear from them and kinda need to do so quick as in i will be out in california later in november and would like to do them while i was out there.

 

[marmotjones]

also Tiki, I heard from Cornell the other day so that is that if you are still curious about them. Unfortunately, the NYC programs, DC, and JHU recieved the cut due to city interests and scheduling constraints. Good luck with the grind and have the fun.

 

[clancy81]

Just wondering what people think about contacting programs that we have not heard from about the status of our application and whether we may still be invited to interview. I was thinking of waiting until after Nov. 1 when the dean's letter goes up in case they are waiting on that. When is it reasonable to contact a place you are still interested in and have not heard from?

marmo--if you search, there is some old info about UCSD and I think there was a resident here who posts on here sometimes. From what I've heard it is a smaller volume program with good research opportunities. And I heard from UCSF a few weeks ago. You might try contacting them if you are planning a trip. Good luck.

 

[mlw03]

i was thinking similarly clancy - after 11/1. perhaps there are a few programs that wait that long. i think a lot of them will find people declining their interviews though. for example, i have 5 i haven't heard from and 4 of them i'd decline the interview at this point. but for the one i am still interested in i may contact them if i haven't heard anything by late next week - what harm can it do?

 

[King Arthur]

i did contact one program fairly recently, i got no response at all. i was kind of expecting at least a reply email saying "we'll let you know" or something. i agree though that it probably doesn't hurt.

 

[marmotjones]

thanks clancy for the info... i'll give them a bit before contacting. the deans letter is probably the most pointless thing ever to be waiting on and i really don't think adds much to the application if that is what programs do.

biohaz RE: your musings and interest in other specialities...i think that is very common as in individuals don't have many elective opportunities before they are confronted with ERAS and the specialty decision and if you aren't interested in a core clinical requirement then the decision is often difficult without a lot of experience with the various niche fields to draw upon. that was the reason i didn't apply for anything during my 4th year so i could use the rest of the year to explore more specialities in a more laid back environment without the silly tests. Ultimately pathology just offered a breadth of opportunities i didn't find in any other specialty. who knows, kind of a strange path towards residency but owell...works for me. Have fun good luck everyone.

 

[mlw03]

since i haven't seen one in the interview thread, i just wanted to let people know that colorado has started to send out invites. i'm also wondering what people have heard about the program in light of UC's literally moving their entire med campus from denver out to aurora. i'd also heard there was a little unrest in the path department the last few years (ie, lots of turnover, especially among AP faculty) - has anyone heard likewise or differently?

 

[vr4nut]

so what are everyone's thoughts on 'keeping in touch' with programs you're interested in. various people have told me different things...

I had one interview where the program director himself told me that if I were interested, to email him throughout the process and let him know if I was still interested after seeing other places, and that I could even say something like, "I'm interviewing at so an so next week and right now its between you two," just so he would know what to expect. The residents later reiterated that this was important and that most of the people who had matched there did keep the program informed of their interest. There are no outside-the-match deals or guarantees or anything like that, they just appreciate communication.

For programs that do not request that type of communication, I may email to ask more questions from my top 3-5 programs, and I may consider writing to my top program that I am very interested. I haven't personally done any of this yet, and I will need to review the NRMP rules carefully before I do.

 

[mlw03]

as i understand match rules, either party can voluntarily share whatever information they want to. where it gets shady is when applicant or program requests that kind of information outright. so a program that says, "if you're thinking about putting us highly you might want to make sure we know so we can make our rank list accordingly" is pushing the rules. what vr4nut described above sounds to me about as far as a program could push it without actually violating the rules. the further i'd be willing to push the rule as an applicant would be to say, "i'm interested in going to a program that really wants me there, so any information you could share would be helpful." but even that is kinda BS anyway because we all know how the rank algorithm works. so i doubt i'd even say something like that. i'll likely do what vr4nut suggested above and contact my top tier of program to make sure they know i'm interested in late january. any info they send back is helpful, but unless i see the words "will rank you to match" anything else is kinda useless because i'm sure every candidate is "very strong and we'll be ranking you 'highly'".

bestin - please don't think people are ignoring you. rather i just think there's not much knowledge about howard among the people who frequent this forum.

 

[gbwillner]

as i understand match rules, either party can voluntarily share whatever information they want to. where it gets shady is when applicant or program requests that kind of information outright. so a program that says, "if you're thinking about putting us highly you might want to make sure we know so we can make our rank list accordingly" is pushing the rules.

I would be very careful about these rules, and I certainly would not share on this forum (or anywhere else) about attempts to subvert or get close to the edges of admittedly vague rules.

As far as I understand it, you are free to express your desire to attend a program. The program can tell you, should they choose, the strength of your application. I do not believe the program can tell you where they will rank you. This has lead to several problems in the past where programs "stretch" their position by telling applicants that they will be "ranked to match", and then the applicant ranks the program #1, only to not match there. It is a big game, unfortunately.

The best you can do is inform the program about your interest, and perhaps go back for a second look to show how interested you are. Many programs will even pay for your return visit (if they are intersted in you). But don't put all your eggs in one basket. You are crazy if you don't think these program directors talk to each other. If you tell one program you want to go there, the other programs you are considering will find out about it. You could be in trouble if your #1 turns out to fill before you, and your 2-3rd choices lost interest in you because they thought you were less interested in them.

 

[yaah]

I would be very careful about these rules, and I certainly would not share on this forum (or anywhere else) about attempts to subvert or get close to the edges of admittedly vague rules.

As far as I understand it, you are free to express your desire to attend a program. The program can tell you, should they choose, the strength of your application. I do not believe the program can tell you where they will rank you. This has lead to several problems in the past where programs "stretch" their position by telling applicants that they will be "ranked to match", and then the applicant ranks the program #1, only to not match there. It is a big game, unfortunately.

No, programs can tell you if they are ranking you highly if they so choose. They can tell you you are ranked to match. That is not against any rules, because it's basically unsolicited. For the same reason, you can tell a program you are ranking them #1.

However, your last point is valid, in that you should never really trust what a program says completely. "Ranked to match" might mean that you are #20 on their list, and in the average year they go to #24 to fill, for example. But this year they could fill at #15 and you wouldn't match there. Some programs use "ranked to match" to mean you are in their top 5 (if they have five spots). Basically, it shouldn't really sway you anyway. If you like a program best, then rank it #1. Matching at the program you ranked #1 doesn't really mean anything if it isn't truly your first choice. Like say I liked two programs, State U and Ivy League U. I preferred State U for many reasons, and during the interview process they told me I was a good candidate but didn't really give me any further info. Ivy League U on the other hand told me I was a highly desirable candidate and that I was ranked to match there, and I would be able to come if I wanted to. They did not, however, ask for a commitment from me, they were just telling me that. So why would I rank Ivy League U over State U? If State U is truly my first choice, and they didn't take me, I would still end up at Ivy League! If I ranked Ivy League #1, I would be assured of matching at my #1. But why should that matter unless you are very vain?

Now, there are programs who skirt the rules. On my interviews, I had a couple of programs tell me to make sure I tell them if I was seriously interested in their program, because they only ranked candidates who were serious about the program. That is open to interpretation, of course. There are a couple of programs who skirt around the rules even more blatantly and say that they will only rank you if you rank them highly. If people reported that, it would be a violation. If programs do try to subvert the rules, then it should be reported, not wiped under the carpet.

The rules exist to remove the pressure from applicants.

 

[ygdrasil]

Got another message from Rush saying that they're swamped with applications which is delaying their invitations. I'm trying to be a relaxed and mellow guy, but I'm really looking forward to having my travel schedule solidified.

 

[raspberry009]

since i haven't seen one in the interview thread, i just wanted to let people know that colorado has started to send out invites. i'm also wondering what people have heard about the program in light of UC's literally moving their entire med campus from denver out to aurora. i'd also heard there was a little unrest in the path department the last few years (ie, lots of turnover, especially among AP faculty) - has anyone heard likewise or differently?

Denver is the city I grew up in and my dad has wanted me to go to CU for a very very long time. He is an architect and has been involved in much of the new buildings that have been going up. Denver has been growing substantially over the past decade (we blame the horrible driving on the migrating Californians) and finally the hospital is growing to meet the population needs. Aurora is a wonderful place, especially for new families. The mountains are right next door which is a great for planning weekend trips. If anything, moving the health center to increase the hospital size is a great benefit.

I don't know much about the pathology program. A few residents from my medical school a few years back interviewed there and did feel a little bit of unrest umoung the residents. But that could change... perhaps. The thing that I'm disappointed about is I have had an extremely difficult time trying to get ahold of anyone. Their invitation for an interview didn't have any contact information, which was the first... 😎

 

[mlw03]

Denver is the city I grew up in and my dad has wanted me to go to CU for a very very long time. He is an architect and has been involved in much of the new buildings that have been going up. Denver has been growing substantially over the past decade (we blame the horrible driving on the migrating Californians) and finally the hospital is growing to meet the population needs. Aurora is a wonderful place, especially for new families. The mountains are right next door which is a great for planning weekend trips. If anything, moving the health center to increase the hospital size is a great benefit.

I don't know much about the pathology program. A few residents from my medical school a few years back interviewed there and did feel a little bit of unrest umoung the residents. But that could change... perhaps. The thing that I'm disappointed about is I have had an extremely difficult time trying to get ahold of anyone. Their invitation for an interview didn't have any contact information, which was the first... 😎

yeah, i noticed that too. they said something coming via snail mail, so we'll see what that says. presumably it'll have some contact information. what'd you think of their claim of getting 280 applicants?! that would imply that 1 in every 2 applicants sent one to CU (or is it UC?!), which i just find tough to believe. thanks for the helpful info, raspberry.

 

[raspberry009]

yeah, i noticed that too. they said something coming via snail mail, so we'll see what that says. presumably it'll have some contact information. what'd you think of their claim of getting 280 applicants?! that would imply that 1 in every 2 applicants sent one to CU (or is it UC?!), which i just find tough to believe. thanks for the helpful info, raspberry.

I grew up with it being called CU... UC works better, but the natives call it CU.

I have sent them 3 emails. I have only gotten 1 response which came a week and a half later. From what I understand, they have a new coordinater, who hasn't answered any of my emails. The coordinator on FREIDA is no longer there.

 

[ataktos]

Got another message from Rush saying that they're swamped with applications which is delaying their invitations. I'm trying to be a relaxed and mellow guy, but I'm really looking forward to having my travel schedule solidified.

Same message here...I'd like to stay 'relaxed & mellow' too but it's now more than a tad irksome--while I'd like to interview there it really is time to finalize travel plans.....so I may ultimately withdraw my application. How 'overwhelming' can the number of path applicants possibly be?!!

 

[Sean2tall]

First official rejection today: UPMC (AKA U Pitt)

Also, I am apparently B-list for Ohio State. They did offer me an interview this week, although many people have gotten interviews before now. They sent what appears to be the standard invitation, but upon trying to actually schedule, all spots are booked except one, when I will be somewhere else. So . . . they said they'll let me know if anything else opens up.