2012-2013 Radiation Oncology Applications

[Sheldor]

What is this Sept 14 I keep hearing about? Back in my day (2 yrs ago), after the annual ASTRO was when programs started reviewing applications.

September 15th is the first day you can submit ERAS this year, so the talk is about how important it is to apply early/near the 15th since, like you said, most places don't review until later in te season.

Another confounder is that the MSPE comes out a month earlier, Oct. 1st.

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[zpiff]

So in an effort to get another research project on my application and also waiting for my August rotation grade to be posted... I've decided to wait a week or two after Sept 14th to submit my application.

Anyone else doing something similar? ...am I crazy for not applying the day applications are open??

I think that I will be doing the same. Hopefully all goes well for us both!

 

[ramsesthenice]

For most places it really doesnt matter if you are in right away. A few programs send out invites very early like michigan and case. Most of them sat on them till late October or so. I know the mspe date has changed but programs have been doing this the same way for years and I doubt they change that much now.

Looking down the road the only place where timing does matter is responding to invites. If they offer you several dates the choicest of those dates will often fill up in a couple hours. You have to respond to those ASAP. Getting the application out shouldn't be a rush though. You can see when programs download them in eras and I assure you most won't touch them before mid to late October.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

One thing I do remember is that unlike other fields, Rad Onc invites typically go out later in the season. I received my first invites in November all the way up into late December. I'm not sure if things have changed any but it can definitely add more anxiety. I have to say it feels good to not have to go through that again!

Good luck to you all and maybe I'll get a chance to meet some of you this year.

 

[suttons law]

My MO was to leave nothing to chance. There was a way to see which programs downloaded your information through the application website. I recall some programs downloading applications within the first few days. The applications may be downloaded early by a secretary and reviewed by faculty later. I would not leave anything to chance and get it in early. IMHO. Good luck to this years class.

 

[zpiff]

Does anyone know when the latest December interview dates are? I was thinking of going out of the country on December 15th but I'm worried that this would make me unable to attend interviews. I'm couples matching so I will be applying to 35ish programs.

 

[FreeRadical2013]

Does anyone know when the latest December interview dates are? I was thinking of going out of the country on December 15th but I'm worried that this would make me unable to attend interviews. I'm couples matching so I will be applying to 35ish programs.

From the interview dates thread from last year, it looks like the only program that offered an interview between Dec 16 and Christmas was WashU.

 

[Sheldor]

Anyone able to figure out what the difference between the two tracks are for Duke on ERAS? It seems like a technical error, but I figured I'd check in here.

 

[rolltide487]

How is everyone attempting to communicate that they are doing/have done away rotations if they don't show up in your application in another place?

I have one away rotation that I completed in August for which I have (fortunately) already received the eval, and it is included in my MSPE, so no issues with that.

However, I have a research elective scheduled for October. This will not be listed on my transcript in any descriptive way (i.e. it says that I'm registered for Rad Onc Special Study). In some way, I'd like people to know this, if only for geographic reasons, as this institution is outside of my current region.

I'm hesitant to list this as a research experience since I haven't started, nor will I by submission date this weekend.

Thoughts?

 

[zpiff]

Anyone able to figure out what the difference between the two tracks are for Duke on ERAS? It seems like a technical error, but I figured I'd check in here.

Hmm... Yeah I see what you mean. Like you said probably a technical error. Can't hurt to check both boxes I guess.

 

[zpiff]

A somewhat similar question: I didn't realize that there are programs that have categorical as well as advanced positions. Is it generally acceptable to apply to both in this situation?

 

[jamesq]

I am also applying this year. One issue I am having is with getting my letters of recommendation turned in, which is preventing my application from being submitted. Is it better to wait to submit the application until all letters are in or submit and then add letters to schools. Thanks!

 

[rolltide487]

.

 

[Sheldor]

I am also applying this year. One issue I am having is with getting my letters of recommendation turned in, which is preventing my application from being submitted. Is it better to wait to submit the application until all letters are in or submit and then add letters to schools. Thanks!

I've been told that for Rad Onc either is fine, so I don't think you can go wrong. (Within reason.) That said, why couldn't you just submit and then add letters?

 

[Sheldor]

A somewhat similar question: I didn't realize that there are programs that have categorical as well as advanced positions. Is it generally acceptable to apply to both in this situation?

In my limited experience talking with a PD, I believe that you can definitely apply to both. By checking categorical it just let's them know to consider you for that track as well. You would eventually rank them both separately on your ROL.

 

[Aphtalyfe]

Where is the correct spot to list away rotations in ERAS? Is there one?

Here is why I ask -- I am completing away #3 in a few weeks and it will apparently not be listed on my transcript/MSPE unless I have a grade, which will not be possible. Also, I am maxed out on LoRs already so adding another letter is not an option, but would like to include the away in ERAS because I would love to end up in this general region but have no prior ties to this area of the country. Any advice?

Giving this question a bump.

I would also like to list my away rotations in order to display that I don't have a regional bias and will go pretty much anywhere... Is that generally frowned on?

 

[t2oo5]

When programs request your CV as a requirement, they are referring to the CV generated by ERAS, correct?

 

[zpiff]

When programs request your CV as a requirement, they are referring to the CV generated by ERAS, correct?

I believe so, yes. I have also been told that some programs will ask you bring your regular CV if you're invited for an interview and will tell you this when they contact you.

 

[Sheldor]

So, anybody find any other programs that are NOT taking anyone this year? Just trying to save us all a little money this week

 

[ReOxygenation]

In regards to waiting to upload/submit you application to ERAS. It does not put you at any disadvantage whatsoever so long as the program has not begun to download applications before you eventually submit. Rad onc programs tend not to download their apps until a bit later than most other programs, probably because of ASTRO. For example, I know for a fact that one of the big name programs will not download until Oct 15th at the earliest with the possibility of delaying another week or two due to the later upload date this year. Waiting a week or 2 will not be an issue. Just get it up by Oct 1 to be safe.

 

[canadianoutlaw]

Does anyone have a list of Rad Onc programs that are categorical? (can matriculate directly from medical school, no preliminary/transitional year necessary)

 

[rudy31]

.

 

[canadianoutlaw]

Gotcha. I guess I was just curious if there was a list of categorical ones

 

[lhl]

Gotcha. I guess I was just curious if there was a list of categorical ones

Emory, Penn, Beaumont, Mayo Jacksonville, Rush, maybe 1-2 more.

 

[Radbio22]

UWisconsin

 

[Neuronix]

Gotcha. I guess I was just curious if there was a list of categorical ones

With the exception of Beaumont, these internships have a reputation of being brutal.

Sure, sometimes you do need to suffer a year to get a rad onc spot, but buyer beware on the required internship. Sure it sounds great not to move twice, but the hours and scut level vary dramatically from big name academic internal medicine programs to more laid back prelim medicine programs or transitional years.

 

[Aphtalyfe]

With the exception of Beaumont, these internships have a reputation of being brutal.

Sure, sometimes you do need to suffer a year to get a rad onc spot, but buyer beware on the required internship. Sure it sounds great not to move twice, but the hours and scut level vary dramatically from big name academic internal medicine programs to more laid back prelim medicine programs or transitional years.

On the flip side... a lot of residents in categorical positions really liked the built in PGY-1. They said it helped them make a bunch of friends outside of radonc.

 

[Seldon1985]

MDACC has optional intern yr program I believe - can only apply to it after you get an interview there...

 

[Radbio22]

I don't think all of them are brutal, however I am currently doing a TY and would absolutely recommend it. The differences between TY and Prelim can really be significant, and you will definitely appreciate it once you see how hard your prelim friends are working.

 

[copperfrog09]

Out of curiosity, how many programs are people typically applying to? How did you decide how many? How many is safe for a middle-of-the-road applicant?

 

[Neuronix]

Out of curiosity, how many programs are people typically applying to? How did you decide how many? How many is safe for a middle-of-the-road applicant?

My advice: Apply to them all.

I mean, if you're a baller, you might be able to get away with applying to 30ish. If you're middle of the road, maybe 40-50. It doesn't hurt anything but the pocket book to apply to more though.

(Just my two cents after seeing what and how people did applying in my cohort.)

 

[Sheldor]

My advice: Apply to them all.

I mean, if you're a baller, you might be able to get away with applying to 30ish. If you're middle of the road, maybe 40-50. It doesn't hurt anything but the pocket book to apply to more though.

(Just my two cents after seeing what and how people did applying in my cohort.)

I've heard this advice a lot. Which is why I wasn't surprised to see that in 2012 Rad Onc was second place for the highest number of average applications at 51.7, second to Orthopedic surgery which had 59! Data from 2008-2011 shows Rad Onc not even in the top 5, meaning in 2011 the average was <43 and in 2012 it was 51.7. Certainly the competitiveness, if not the perceived competitiveness has increased the last few years.

Also interestingly of the 275 US Rad Onc applicants there was quite a bit of people applying to other specialties: 85 to Categorical IM, 53 to Radiology, and 23 to derm! (Plus a few others)

 

[copperfrog09]

I've heard this advice a lot. Which is why I wasn't surprised to see that in 2012 Rad Onc was second place for the highest number of average applications at 51.7, second to Orthopedic surgery which had 59! Data from 2008-2011 shows Rad Onc not even in the top 5, meaning in 2011 the average was <43 and in 2012 it was 51.7. Certainly the competitiveness, if not the perceived competitiveness has increased the last few years.

Also interestingly of the 275 US Rad Onc applicants there was quite a bit of people applying to other specialties: 85 to Categorical IM, 53 to Radiology, and 23 to derm! (Plus a few others)

Derm?! That is interesting. Seems like the polar opposite end of the spectrum to me.

 

[neo87]

agreed -- apply to all the programs, and pick where you want to interview. There is no such thing as "too many interviews", especially when some programs are interviewing 20-30+ people for 1 position.

 

[Radbio22]

My advice is to apply to all programs you would be okay matching at. If there is somewhere you really wouldn't like to train, for whatever reason, then it is a complete waste of money. I did not apply to places that I did not feel would be a good fit for me. If however, you just want to match, and don't care, apply to all.

 

[copperfrog09]

agreed -- apply to all the programs, and pick where you want to interview. There is no such thing as "too many interviews", especially when some programs are interviewing 20-30+ people for 1 position.

Ah. That makes sense. Thanks.

 

[hot sauce]

My advice is to apply to all programs you would be okay matching at. If there is somewhere you really wouldn't like to train, for whatever reason, then it is a complete waste of money. I did not apply to places that I did not feel would be a good fit for me. If however, you just want to match, and don't care, apply to all.

Reasonable advice as long as you are considering would I not interview at this program even if they were the only one to invite me?

I only applied to 30-40 programs which I now see as a mistake that I was lucky to get away with (I'm super happy with the program that I matched but I didn't have an excess of interviews). I would suggest approaching it as planning to apply to all. Of course, don't apply to somewhere you know you won't go to an interview at (not I won't go there if I already have 10 other interviews but I won't go there even if I have no other options). Some programs have the reputation of not interviewing people who did not rotate there so you could consider excluding them but I do not know if that is true or not.

Programs are going to be going through a lot of applications and it is difficult to predict where your application will resonate. It is a self perpetuating problem. People like me say to apply to all programs so the programs get a ton of applications without knowing who is really interested. It would be more nice (but unrealistic) if everyone was applying to just programs they were reasonably interested in, but (IMO) to do so in the current environment would be risky even if you are a strong applicant.

You will curse ERAS when you pay the giant bill but what are the monetary implications of not matching?

 

[zpiff]

Anyone able to figure out what the difference between the two tracks are for Duke on ERAS? It seems like a technical error, but I figured I'd check in here.

I just got an email from Duke saying track that is called "Advanced" is a mistake and that "Radiation Oncology--Advanced track" is the real one in case anyone hasn't submitted had has this question.

 

[anonobro]

I've heard this advice a lot. Which is why I wasn't surprised to see that in 2012 Rad Onc was second place for the highest number of average applications at 51.7, second to Orthopedic surgery which had 59! Data from 2008-2011 shows Rad Onc not even in the top 5, meaning in 2011 the average was <43 and in 2012 it was 51.7. Certainly the competitiveness, if not the perceived competitiveness has increased the last few years.

Also interestingly of the 275 US Rad Onc applicants there was quite a bit of people applying to other specialties: 85 to Categorical IM, 53 to Radiology, and 23 to derm! (Plus a few others)

Where are you getting this data from?

 

[Sheldor]

Where are you getting this data from?

It's from ERAS, ill try and find the link...

Edit: Well, I can't find it. It was sent in an e-mail from one of our deans, but I can't find a link to the document on their website.

 

[Aphtalyfe]

It's from ERAS, ill try and find the link...

Edit: Well, I can't find it. It was sent in an e-mail from one of our deans, but I can't find a link to the document on their website.

I got the same email/PDF from my dean as well. I don't think we go to the same school either.

 

[IndyXRT]

Emory, Penn, Beaumont, Mayo Jacksonville, Rush, maybe 1-2 more.

Indiana University has both categorical and advanced positions (this year, 1 categorical, 2 advanced). For the categorical position, you would do your internship in the internal medicine dept at Indiana University (tougher than a transitional year, but not bad; I did that myself). The advanced positions will have to find their own PGY1.

You do need to rank both separately. As far as I know, there is no requirement to check both on your application. We treat all applicants the same (applying for one or the other would not increase or decrease chances of interview). We do have to submit two separate lists to ERAS when it comes time for the match.