2013-2014 APPIC (internship) interview thread

[463951]

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Siamesekitten- What AA said is exactly what I was referring to. For some, being too specialized is a bad thing, but for some it would be a good thing... and this is why doing your homework is so important! I have a clinical focus with research interests in outcomes research, so I really only understand what my friends who are in neuro and forensics tell me (I apologize if I ever state something that is inaccurate). It would be very important to talk to licensed &/or board certified psychologists in your area of interest to make sure that you aren't preventing yourself from pursuing certain avenues in the future.

AA- you're right, I had forgotten about the BOP implications for not doing an APA internship in forensics.

Overall it seems that the theme is for people to not make choices naively, or reassuring themselves that "everything will work out..." because it might not. Rather, we could stand to take these points in our career seriously and think through the implications and "what ifs" in case they happen.

Thank you so much for your input, I really appreciate it! I am going to talk to a professor at my school this week (who is board certified in forensic psychology) about my situation. Yeah, I can't just say, "everything will work out." I don't know that, and I don't want to run into problems later on because my internship was non APA. Luckily, I have a good amount of APA sites to rank, and hopefully I will match to one of those. But who knows what could happen in the Match, I could end up being ranked at one of the two non APA sites, even if they are at the very bottom of my list, and then I would be stuck at one of those sites! It would be a match, but I would be unhappy.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Thank you so much for your input, I really appreciate it! I am going to talk to a professor at my school this week (who is board certified in forensic psychology) about my situation. Yeah, I can't just say, "everything will work out." I don't know that, and I don't want to run into problems later on because my internship was non APA. Luckily, I have a good amount of APA sites to rank, and hopefully I will match to one of those. But who knows what could happen in the Match, I could end up being ranked at one of the two non APA sites, even if they are at the very bottom of my list, and then I would be stuck at one of those sites! It would be a match, but I would be unhappy.

I'd suggest giving some serious thought to whether you actually want to rank those two sites, then. If you already know you're going to be unhappy there, and if you don't absolutely need to go on internship this year, then you might consider not including them on your list. Folks are fond of saying that, "it's only a year," which is true, but a year can be a very long time (for both you and the staff at the internship site) if you're already bummed about being there on the first day. At least in my opinion, internship should be an enjoyable growth/training experience. Although it's of course entirely your call with respect to weighing the pros/cons of sticking around another year vs. including those two sites on your list and potentially matching at one of them.

And while the training being too specialized may indeed be one of the largest reasons those sites are having difficulty getting accredited, the APA requires other things (in the interests of trainees) that the sites may also be having issues with--such as requiring an established, formal grievance process; requiring that interns be paid; requiring certain amounts of supervision (and by only licensed psychologists); etc. I'm not saying that the two sites you've mentioned have problems in any of those areas, but there are certainly sites out there that forego APA accreditation because they can't/choose not to pay interns, don't have enough staff to provide adequate supervision, don't offer the appropriate didactics, etc.

 

[turtleburtle]

I did ask them their hours, and most of my sites indicated a normal "workday" was 8:30-6 at the outside, with maybe one later day (but never really past 7). That feels totally reasonable to me, but this guy suggested they were really working much harder/longer than they said. I'm just conflicted and worried I'm basing decisions on wrong information.

I have found it helpful to hear from interns what they do outside of internship/how they like the city they are living in. Current interns have said they work 8-5 and then said later on they are too tired to go out in the city much at all because they are writing lots of notes, while other interns seem to have gotten to know the city well because they aren't working late or on the weekends on a regular basis. Obviously that may depend on the intern and what they like to do, but I have found it helpful to get at work/life balance for the current interns.

 

[PsychappA]

Phew, finally done with interviews as of Saturday and could not be more relieved! I have a really clear sense of all my rankings except my number 2 and 3 slots, which I think are super important because my number 1 site is so competitive that I think it is a long shot. Here is the question I am struggling with and would love feedback on: I am trying to weigh short-term and long-term pros and cons of each site and am not sure how to prioritize each. For instance, for one site I really loved the activities I'd be doing on internship (exciting clinical rotations and lots of research time, which is important to me) and the interns seemed happy and relaxed, but the post-doc opportunities didn't seem as good. At another site, I was not quite as excited by the clinical rotations (and no protected research time), but I feel like it might set me up better for post-docs and jobs. I'm wondering how other people are balancing their short- versus long(er)- term priorities in making their rankings?

 

[dasherva13]

Phew, finally done with interviews as of Saturday and could not be more relieved! I have a really clear sense of all my rankings except my number 2 and 3 slots, which I think are super important because my number 1 site is so competitive that I think it is a long shot. Here is the question I am struggling with and would love feedback on: I am trying to weigh short-term and long-term pros and cons of each site and am not sure how to prioritize each. For instance, for one site I really loved the activities I'd be doing on internship (exciting clinical rotations and lots of research time, which is important to me) and the interns seemed happy and relaxed, but the post-doc opportunities didn't seem as good. At another site, I was not quite as excited by the clinical rotations (and no protected research time), but I feel like it might set me up better for post-docs and jobs. I'm wondering how other people are balancing their short- versus long(er)- term priorities in making their rankings?

In my calculus, good long-term opportunities always won out, or pushed a site just a bit ahead in the rankings (assuming I was also able to be happy with the internship opportunities). In your situation I'd probably put the one with more post-doc opps ahead - but I also wonder if you could say more about that - does one have dedicated post-docs and the other doesn't? Or you just think one will "look better" on a post-doc app?

 

[PsychappA]

In my calculus, good long-term opportunities always won out, or pushed a site just a bit ahead in the rankings (assuming I was also able to be happy with the internship opportunities). In your situation I'd probably put the one with more post-doc opps ahead - but I also wonder if you could say more about that - does one have dedicated post-docs and the other doesn't? Or you just think one will "look better" on a post-doc app?

The site with the (potentially) better long-term opportunities (let's call is Site A) had some pretty big name researchers directly in my field of interest and the possibility (though not certainty) to stay on and work with these faculty as a post-doc. At the other site (Site B) I would be working with people more peripherally related to my research interests, but would probably have opportunities to publish more. My area of interest is pretty specialized so I worry if I don't get in with people in this area (such as those at Site A) now I may have difficulties doing so in the future. Does that clear it up at all? Sorry, my brain is fuzzy after interviews! 😉

 

[docma]

I totally hear you. I was really struggling and then I had a long talk with a friend in the field, and her method was really helpful for me. Maybe it will help you, too. For each given spot on your rank list, look at the programs you are considering for just that spot, and then list the biggest positives of that location (variety, specialty, lots of supervision, location, etc...), just 1-3 for each program, what really makes it special. Then compare the other programs on those things. So if site A is great on X, but site B is only mediocre, and site B is great on Y, and site A is also pretty good...you get the idea. I also tried to list the biggest negative I could find for each site, just 1 for each. Going through it this way really clarified some things for me, and showed me where I was allowing prestige of a site, or confidence that they'd liked me, weigh more than fit with the training I want to receive. It helped a lot. More than the rubrics and pro/con lists. 🙂
Good luck, though, this is a tough decision!

This is really solid advice. Weighing how you think a site liked you or prestige will skew getting ranked where the fit is best. Sites can really like many candidates--and convey that because they genuinely like you--but fit is the deciding factor. Similarly, you really need to think about whether you "fit" with the prestigious site more than one with less. The kind of listing noted above helps focus on the true elements of "fit". I know folks who did wind up happily matched in Match II--who recognized that their error in Match 1 was ranking on prestige, not fit.

 

[cara susanna]

The site with the (potentially) better long-term opportunities (let's call is Site A) had some pretty big name researchers directly in my field of interest and the possibility (though not certainty) to stay on and work with these faculty as a post-doc. At the other site (Site B) I would be working with people more peripherally related to my research interests, but would probably have opportunities to publish more. My area of interest is pretty specialized so I worry if I don't get in with people in this area (such as those at Site A) now I may have difficulties doing so in the future. Does that clear it up at all? Sorry, my brain is fuzzy after interviews! 😉

Well, internship is meant to be generalist training. As long as Site B offers some opportunities related to your area, I would think that you'd be okay for post-doc applications.

Also, I'd ask myself which ones I'd prefer to work with in terms of personality and mentorship style.

 

[mindfulnessiszen]

I had the most wonderful interview with my last site! Now I don't know which site to rank number one between the two which I guess is a great problem to have. This is going to be tough! One site is better if I want to transition into neuropsychology and the other is better for getting a breadth of experiences including a minor rotation in neuropsych assessment. Both had great postdocs and great faculty. The only immediate drawback at the site I interviewed at today is the distance 4,320 miles versus 540 miles at the other site from my husband. Any advice? I'm probably going to have to consult with my hubby on this one as well.

 

[mindfulnessiszen]

Phew, finally done with interviews as of Saturday and could not be more relieved! I have a really clear sense of all my rankings except my number 2 and 3 slots, which I think are super important because my number 1 site is so competitive that I think it is a long shot. Here is the question I am struggling with and would love feedback on: I am trying to weigh short-term and long-term pros and cons of each site and am not sure how to prioritize each. For instance, for one site I really loved the activities I'd be doing on internship (exciting clinical rotations and lots of research time, which is important to me) and the interns seemed happy and relaxed, but the post-doc opportunities didn't seem as good. At another site, I was not quite as excited by the clinical rotations (and no protected research time), but I feel like it might set me up better for post-docs and jobs. I'm wondering how other people are balancing their short- versus long(er)- term priorities in making their rankings?

I am also struggling with those top rankings. The thing that stuck out to me is that you said that you "loved" the activities you would be doing at the first site. That suggests to me that you would be happier overall at the first one. Not to mention, unless you are specializing, I have met many interns who did not get internships in what they want to do post doc wise. I'm thinking this happens a lot because internship sites try to provide a generalist training program. So my personal opinion is to go with the one you'd be most excited about and try to tailor your experiences to the post docs you want.

 

[grenas]

I still have not certified my rankings. I keep going back and forth with my top two sites and not sure which one to rank #1. I have talked to a couple of my friends and family members and also faculty members to get some perspective. I am meeting with my advisor to further discuss and possibly gain some insights. But I am just not sure....and I know that I would be happy at both places, but I am just not sure which one to rank first.

 

[psychrat]

Certified my rankings!!! Yay.
Is anyone else having anxiety about checking and double checking to make sure you entered the right codes for the rank order?

 

[dmw12]

Has anyone else received Thank You emails from sites? I just received one today that sounds hopeful, but looks generic, so I'm wondering if some sites just send them to everyone who interviews. Thoughts?

 

[pavlove]

Has anyone else received Thank You emails from sites? I just received one today that sounds hopeful, but looks generic, so I'm wondering if some sites just send them to everyone who interviews. Thoughts?

I received a thank you/follow up e-mail from a site I interviewed with last night - it was personalized and said that I had a "very strong application" and was "highly regarded" by the program. Even though it had my name I kind of think they send these to most/all applicants.

 

[Jeeson528]

Just curious…

Why do we have to wait more than 2 weeks after we submit our ROL in order to get our match results?….. I would think it takes less than a day to get our results since it's computerized?...

 

[dasherva13]

Just curious…

Why do we have to wait more than 2 weeks after we submit our ROL in order to get our match results?….. I would think it takes less than a day to get our results since it's computerized?...

The algorithm does it in a day, as far as I understand it. Then a team of people at NatMatch spend 3 weeks certifying the results and making sure there were no errors.

 

[empathiosis]

Just curious…

Why do we have to wait more than 2 weeks after we submit our ROL in order to get our match results?….. I would think it takes less than a day to get our results since it's computerized?...

I remember seeing a really detailed explanation of why it takes so long somewhere ... and now I can't find it. It may have been posted here ... As dasherva said it does involve certifying and recertifying and making sure there are no errors ... Sometimes students and sites make errors and they have to contact students and sites who made errors and confirm what they wanted, etc. so it's just not as easy as it might seem given the large number of people and sites who participate.

 

[mindfulnessiszen]

@Jeeson528 Here it is.

This was the email Greg Keilin sent out over the listserv the day after the rankings closed last year

Subject: The Waiting Game

Now that the frenzy of applying, interviewing, and ranking is over, applicants and programs face one of the most challenging parts of this process: Waiting for the Match results.

We very much understand that waiting can be extremely stressful, and APPIC and NMS have done everything possible to minimize the amount of time that applicants and programs must wait for their results.

One of the most frequently asked questions that APPIC receives at this point is, "Why do we have to wait two weeks to get our results?". This e-mail provides details about what happens during this time.

Basically, NMS is extremely busy throughout this period, providing extensive checking and re-checking of the data to ensure the accuracy and integrity of the Match results. For example:

1. NMS works very hard to ensure that no one "falls through the cracks" in the process. They do their best to see that each of the more than 4,000 applicants and 700 internship sites have submitted either a Rank Order List or a formal withdrawal from the Match. They attempt to contact Training Directors and applicants from whom they are expecting a response, but who have not submitted either a Rank Order List or a withdrawal.


2. There are a significant number of sites with very complex requirements that must submit their Rank Order Lists to NMS on paper. Each of these paper submissions must be reviewed and analyzed to ensure they have been prepared correctly, then entered and carefully proof-read (twice) by NMS staff. Each year, NMS contacts a significant number of Training Directors to ensure that their Rank Order Lists accurately reflect their preferences.

3. Once all rankings have been successfully entered and proofed, NMS performs a number of integrity checks on this data. These checks allow them to identify potential inconsistencies in rankings between lists submitted by applicants and those submitted by programs (e.g., applicants ranking the wrong program at a site, programs ranking the wrong applicant). They are able to catch some (but not all) errors made by sites and applicants, and it does take a significant amount of time to reach these participants to follow-up, verify, and correct these mistakes. Training Directors and applicants are generally busy and can be very difficult to reach (if you receive a call or e-mail from NMS in the coming days, PLEASE RESPOND IMMEDIATELY).

4. Once the Match has been run, another set of integrity checks are conducted by the NMS staff to ensure that the Match has been processed correctly, and that every applicant and every training program has received the best possible match.

5. Then, the results must be prepared for distribution via the various methods available (e-mail, web, and fax).

6. An additional set of tasks are the preparations that must be made for Phase II of the Match. These tasks include generating a master list of unfilled positions and providing information to the AAPI Online Service that will allow unmatched applicants and Training Directors at programs with unfilled positions to participate in Phase II (which begins immediately after the release of the Phase I results).


This is only a partial list of NMS' activities during this period. And, they are able to do all of this in an amount of time that is equal to or less than that of other matching programs of comparable (or even smaller) size in other professions.

This is the 15th year that NMS has conducted the APPIC Match, and we continue to rely upon their thoroughness, attention to detail, and commitment to accuracy. While the next few weeks may require what seems like an extraordinary amount of patience, we hope that you can appreciate the importance of allowing NMS the time to get the job done accurately.

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

 

[Jeeson528]

Ah ic..makes sense now..

 

[SmithPsy24]

Is anyone else struggling with anxiety from having very few interviews? I only had three (to be fair, the minimum number I wanted so I wasn't completely disappointed), and it seems like everyone I know had more. As the match gets closer, I just keep thinking about the numbers of interns accepted versus applicants interviewed and feeling really worried that I'll have to go to Phase II...which leads to worrying about what would happen if I couldn't match there either. Oy!

 

[ReadyToMatch]

Advice Needed/Appreciated: I have 2 top choices, and don't know what to do! If you are uninterested, please just ignore my post 🙂

For some background: I intend to focus on clinical work for my future career (including supervising/training other professionals/some program evaluation and outcome research), and hope to wind up at a New England area VA/medical school for a clinically focused postdoc. I am really having difficulty determining which program I should rank higher, and have gotten conflicting advice from friends, family, colleagues, etc. Please help!!!

Site A= One of the most prestigious programs in my specialty area. Even people who know nothing about my area have heard of this site's reputation. They have opportunities for research, but the program is definitely more focused on clinical work for internship. The TD indicated that many of their interns can and do stay on for post-doc, and I have heard that attending this program could give me a leg up for next year's post doc process in any area I hope to live (note: this program is NOT in New England). The TD stated that their interns are traditionally very happy with their training/experience, and the supervisors with whom I met seemed very nice/friendly. However, the current interns (and even TD) said that my internship track "works significantly more hours" than every other track at the program, and that they often spend over 55-60 hours at work per week. In addition, if I wanted to do "minor" rotations, I would have to spend even MORE time there. The training director/interns also told us that we would have to take out a LOT of loans in order to live in this particular city (let's just say that the months stipend wouldn't even cover my monthly rent). I already have a good deal of loans from undergrad/some from grad school, and don't know whether this is feasible for long-term happiness.

Site B= A really great program. I know that one of their interns (from my own graduate school lab who has many of the same practica/teaching/publications as I do) was offered a post-doc position last year at one of the post-doc sites that I hope to attend. The TD indicated that many interns can stay on for post doc, but that they also have many go across the country. My lab mate and the current interns all appeared VERY happy, had only wonderful things to say about the program (particularly about the TD/supervisors/teams/training experiences), and the program has a strong emphasis on work life balance (which is very important to me, sounds like a 40-45 hour work week). The program is in a VERY safe/beautiful area, and I could afford to live pretty comfortably on my stipend (and would probably only have to take out a few loans to survive the year). I got a really GREAT feeling when I left this program, and feel that I would get great clinical training.

They are both VA sites, and have almost identical rotations/clinical opportunities. Both have very nice supervisors (but I felt more connected to Site B supervisors). Site A only includes 4 training opportunities (would have to spend even more than 55-60 hours per week if I wanted to do a second) while site B would allow for 6 (including both minor/major rotations in this calculation). Considering my interest in heading back east /my interest in clinical work, what would you do?! Would you go for the VERY prestigious program that requires one to go into significant debt OR would you go for the competitive/great program that allows for better quality of life/financial stability during internship/possibly into the future. AH I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO?!

 

[Rorshocked]

Advice Needed/Appreciated: I have 2 top choices, and don't know what to do! If you are uninterested, please just ignore my post 🙂

For some background: I intend to focus on clinical work for my future career (including supervising/training other professionals/some program evaluation and outcome research), and hope to wind up at a New England area VA/medical school for a clinically focused postdoc. I am really having difficulty determining which program I should rank higher, and have gotten conflicting advice from friends, family, colleagues, etc. Please help!!!

Site A= One of the most prestigious programs in my specialty area. Even people who know nothing about my area have heard of this site's reputation. They have opportunities for research, but the program is definitely more focused on clinical work for internship. The TD indicated that many of their interns can and do stay on for post-doc, and I have heard that attending this program could give me a leg up for next year's post doc process in any area I hope to live (note: this program is NOT in New England). The TD stated that their interns are traditionally very happy with their training/experience, and the supervisors with whom I met seemed very nice/friendly. However, the current interns (and even TD) said that my internship track "works significantly more hours" than every other track at the program, and that they often spend over 55-60 hours at work per week. In addition, if I wanted to do "minor" rotations, I would have to spend even MORE time there. The training director/interns also told us that we would have to take out a LOT of loans in order to live in this particular city (let's just say that the months stipend wouldn't even cover my monthly rent). I already have a good deal of loans from undergrad/some from grad school, and don't know whether this is feasible for long-term happiness.

Site B= A really great program. I know that one of their interns (from my own graduate school lab who has many of the same practica/teaching/publications as I do) was offered a post-doc position last year at one of the post-doc sites that I hope to attend. The TD indicated that many interns can stay on for post doc, but that they also have many go across the country. My lab mate and the current interns all appeared VERY happy, had only wonderful things to say about the program (particularly about the TD/supervisors/teams/training experiences), and the program has a strong emphasis on work life balance (which is very important to me, sounds like a 40-45 hour work week). The program is in a VERY safe/beautiful area, and I could afford to live pretty comfortably on my stipend (and would probably only have to take out a few loans to survive the year). I got a really GREAT feeling when I left this program, and feel that I would get great clinical training.

They are both VA sites, and have almost identical rotations/clinical opportunities. Both have very nice supervisors (but I felt more connected to Site B supervisors). Site A only includes 4 training opportunities (would have to spend even more than 55-60 hours per week if I wanted to do a second) while site B would allow for 6 (including both minor/major rotations in this calculation). Considering my interest in heading back east /my interest in clinical work, what would you do?! Would you go for the VERY prestigious program that requires one to go into significant debt OR would you go for the competitive/great program that allows for better quality of life/financial stability during internship/possibly into
the future. AH I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO?!

For what it's worth, it sounds like you've answered your own question. All things considered, I would think site B (still competitive and well-known enough to help out with postdoc, yet higher QoL and less debt) is the way to go. However, I'm super curious as to what site A is bc I'm in a similar boat at this time and it could very well be the same site!!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Advice Needed/Appreciated: I have 2 top choices, and don't know what to do! If you are uninterested, please just ignore my post 🙂

For some background: I intend to focus on clinical work for my future career (including supervising/training other professionals/some program evaluation and outcome research), and hope to wind up at a New England area VA/medical school for a clinically focused postdoc. I am really having difficulty determining which program I should rank higher, and have gotten conflicting advice from friends, family, colleagues, etc. Please help!!!

Site A= One of the most prestigious programs in my specialty area. Even people who know nothing about my area have heard of this site's reputation. They have opportunities for research, but the program is definitely more focused on clinical work for internship. The TD indicated that many of their interns can and do stay on for post-doc, and I have heard that attending this program could give me a leg up for next year's post doc process in any area I hope to live (note: this program is NOT in New England). The TD stated that their interns are traditionally very happy with their training/experience, and the supervisors with whom I met seemed very nice/friendly. However, the current interns (and even TD) said that my internship track "works significantly more hours" than every other track at the program, and that they often spend over 55-60 hours at work per week. In addition, if I wanted to do "minor" rotations, I would have to spend even MORE time there. The training director/interns also told us that we would have to take out a LOT of loans in order to live in this particular city (let's just say that the months stipend wouldn't even cover my monthly rent). I already have a good deal of loans from undergrad/some from grad school, and don't know whether this is feasible for long-term happiness.

Site B= A really great program. I know that one of their interns (from my own graduate school lab who has many of the same practica/teaching/publications as I do) was offered a post-doc position last year at one of the post-doc sites that I hope to attend. The TD indicated that many interns can stay on for post doc, but that they also have many go across the country. My lab mate and the current interns all appeared VERY happy, had only wonderful things to say about the program (particularly about the TD/supervisors/teams/training experiences), and the program has a strong emphasis on work life balance (which is very important to me, sounds like a 40-45 hour work week). The program is in a VERY safe/beautiful area, and I could afford to live pretty comfortably on my stipend (and would probably only have to take out a few loans to survive the year). I got a really GREAT feeling when I left this program, and feel that I would get great clinical training.

They are both VA sites, and have almost identical rotations/clinical opportunities. Both have very nice supervisors (but I felt more connected to Site B supervisors). Site A only includes 4 training opportunities (would have to spend even more than 55-60 hours per week if I wanted to do a second) while site B would allow for 6 (including both minor/major rotations in this calculation). Considering my interest in heading back east /my interest in clinical work, what would you do?! Would you go for the VERY prestigious program that requires one to go into significant debt OR would you go for the competitive/great program that allows for better quality of life/financial stability during internship/possibly into the future. AH I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO?!

As the poster above me mentioned, it sounds like you've almost made up your mind already on site B, and I personally would be ok with that. The whole work/life balance thing has gotten touted a bit too much in recent years for my liking, but I honestly don't know that the internship you attend makes THAT much difference during postdoc applications, particularly when site B is apparently also a strong program and site A would require significant additional debt. This is doubly true if you have a strong CV and/or your grad program/advisor is well known in your specialty area.

Although New England seems to be, much like CA, sort of its own little world in many respects when it comes to psych, so I'm not sure how much of all this translates to there specifically.

 

[dasherva13]

Advice Needed/Appreciated: I have 2 top choices, and don't know what to do! If you are uninterested, please just ignore my post 🙂

For some background: I intend to focus on clinical work for my future career (including supervising/training other professionals/some program evaluation and outcome research), and hope to wind up at a New England area VA/medical school for a clinically focused postdoc. I am really having difficulty determining which program I should rank higher, and have gotten conflicting advice from friends, family, colleagues, etc. Please help!!!

Site A= One of the most prestigious programs in my specialty area. Even people who know nothing about my area have heard of this site's reputation. They have opportunities for research, but the program is definitely more focused on clinical work for internship. The TD indicated that many of their interns can and do stay on for post-doc, and I have heard that attending this program could give me a leg up for next year's post doc process in any area I hope to live (note: this program is NOT in New England). The TD stated that their interns are traditionally very happy with their training/experience, and the supervisors with whom I met seemed very nice/friendly. However, the current interns (and even TD) said that my internship track "works significantly more hours" than every other track at the program, and that they often spend over 55-60 hours at work per week. In addition, if I wanted to do "minor" rotations, I would have to spend even MORE time there. The training director/interns also told us that we would have to take out a LOT of loans in order to live in this particular city (let's just say that the months stipend wouldn't even cover my monthly rent). I already have a good deal of loans from undergrad/some from grad school, and don't know whether this is feasible for long-term happiness.

Site B= A really great program. I know that one of their interns (from my own graduate school lab who has many of the same practica/teaching/publications as I do) was offered a post-doc position last year at one of the post-doc sites that I hope to attend. The TD indicated that many interns can stay on for post doc, but that they also have many go across the country. My lab mate and the current interns all appeared VERY happy, had only wonderful things to say about the program (particularly about the TD/supervisors/teams/training experiences), and the program has a strong emphasis on work life balance (which is very important to me, sounds like a 40-45 hour work week). The program is in a VERY safe/beautiful area, and I could afford to live pretty comfortably on my stipend (and would probably only have to take out a few loans to survive the year). I got a really GREAT feeling when I left this program, and feel that I would get great clinical training.

They are both VA sites, and have almost identical rotations/clinical opportunities. Both have very nice supervisors (but I felt more connected to Site B supervisors). Site A only includes 4 training opportunities (would have to spend even more than 55-60 hours per week if I wanted to do a second) while site B would allow for 6 (including both minor/major rotations in this calculation). Considering my interest in heading back east /my interest in clinical work, what would you do?! Would you go for the VERY prestigious program that requires one to go into significant debt OR would you go for the competitive/great program that allows for better quality of life/financial stability during internship/possibly into the future. AH I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO?!

Like the above mentioned, it sounds like you're really asking "Is it crazy to turn down a really prestigious program for one which I think I will be happier at?" Maybe instead of thinking about the pros, list the cons of each site. I think it'll be pretty clear what to do.
I would also say that I think work-life balance is important, within reason. There is a difference in the quality of work you do when you're working 40-45 hours a week instead of 55-60. I would not encourage you to pick site B just for the work-life balance, but it's not an unimportant factor either, and given everything else you've said, why not have the better training experience, especially if it also comes with a better life experience for that year and doesn't negatively impact your future prospects?

 

[ReadyToMatch]

Thank you, guys. I know that Site B is probably a better fit/I'd be happier there. You hit the nail on the head: My major concern that getting a job/post doc (from what I have heard) is particularly competitive in New England. If I went to Site B (didn't get any offers for interview) I would always wonder "if I had gone to Site A would I have been able to do it?!" I think the real question is: If you are interested in a clinical post doc, does it really matter where you DO the internship as long as you have solid letters/relatable experiences? I don't know who to ask about this.

 

[cara susanna]

I think experiences matter more than name, from what I've heard.

 

[mindfulnessiszen]

Are a lot of people considering taking out loans during their internship year?

 

[Rorshocked]

Honestly, it depends on where I match. At most of my top choices, it'll probably be necessary due to the cost of living in those areas. Not thrilled about that, but hoping it's a worthy investment. So, I'm gonna do the FAFSA just in case and see what happens on Match Day! (Better add that to my to-do list!)

 

[erg923]

Thank you, guys. I know that Site B is probably a better fit/I'd be happier there. You hit the nail on the head: My major concern that getting a job/post doc (from what I have heard) is particularly competitive in New England. If I went to Site B (didn't get any offers for interview) I would always wonder "if I had gone to Site A would I have been able to do it?!" I think the real question is: If you are interested in a clinical post doc, does it really matter where you DO the internship as long as you have solid letters/relatable experiences? I don't know who to ask about this.

Well, of course, to a certain extent. A solid hospital, academic medical center, or VA that is APA accredited is always going to "look" better than the Noname County Community Mental Health Center that isnt. My VA internship certainly gave me a boost for my current VA staff position. I got my first job after internship primarily because of connections and who I know from my hometown though.

 

[grenas]

I certified my rankings! 🙂

 

[grenas]

Are a lot of people considering taking out loans during their internship year?

I am going to take out loans just enough to pay my tuition. I still have to take internship hours....I am assuming it is the same for everyone so I am going to need loans to pay for that.

 

[ReadyToMatch]

I think that will ultimately depend on where I match! (Single income, significant variance re: cost of living at different internships)

 

[463951]

I'd suggest giving some serious thought to whether you actually want to rank those two sites, then. If you already know you're going to be unhappy there, and if you don't absolutely need to go on internship this year, then you might consider not including them on your list. Folks are fond of saying that, "it's only a year," which is true, but a year can be a very long time (for both you and the staff at the internship site) if you're already bummed about being there on the first day. At least in my opinion, internship should be an enjoyable growth/training experience. Although it's of course entirely your call with respect to weighing the pros/cons of sticking around another year vs. including those two sites on your list and potentially matching at one of them.

And while the training being too specialized may indeed be one of the largest reasons those sites are having difficulty getting accredited, the APA requires other things (in the interests of trainees) that the sites may also be having issues with--such as requiring an established, formal grievance process; requiring that interns be paid; requiring certain amounts of supervision (and by only licensed psychologists); etc. I'm not saying that the two sites you've mentioned have problems in any of those areas, but there are certainly sites out there that forego APA accreditation because they can't/choose not to pay interns, don't have enough staff to provide adequate supervision, don't offer the appropriate didactics, etc.

Thank you so much for all of your input. I am doing some research and seriously considering the pros and cons to leaving these 2 non APA sites off of my list. The sites are paid, and I asked about supervision and didactics while at the interviews, and what they offer is good for a non APA site. When I said "unhappy," I more meant unhappy about the possible risks that come with landing a non APA internship, actually being at the internship would not make me unhappy, if that makes sense? I just need to figure out what to do before next Wednesday! Thanks again! 🙂

 

[cara susanna]

Just curious if anyone has heard from the Ann Arbor VA. They indicated that they would let us know about a week before Match Day if we weren't going to be ranked by them.

 

[mindfulnessiszen]

Just curious if anyone has heard from the Ann Arbor VA. They indicated that they would let us know about a week before Match Day if we weren't going to be ranked by them.

Maybe no news is good news 🙂

 

[cara susanna]

Oops, I meant to put rankings being due, not Match Day! That's why I'm asking today, haha.

And yeah, I figured no news is good news, I was just wondering if they decided not to rank anyone or if we could still be notified in the future.

 

[G Costanza]

I've decided that we are all going to match this year and we don't have to worry about it anymore.

You're welcome.

 

[cara susanna]

I've decided that we are all going to match this year and we don't have to worry about it anymore.

You're welcome.

Phew! I'm glad that's over!

 

[G Costanza]

Phew! I'm glad that's over!

I would have done it sooner but I got distracted reading this thread.

 

[psychrat]

How early will you wake up on the 21st? I think they send result out by 8am eastern standard time. How will you spend your morning?

 

[calimich]

Last follow-up convo was this morning. So glad to be finished with this stage! I'm going to ask a ranking question, please ignore if you are not interested.

I'm Spanish-English bilingual (actually Spanish was my first language) and have had limited opportunities to practice in Spanish during graduate school in the upper midwest. I"m in a counseling psych phd program. Although we have no Spanish speaking faculty members, I've done clinical interviews, intellectual assessments, individual therapy, and supervision of others in Spanish. Now, of my 600+ total direct hours, I'd estimate around 35 have been in Spanish; some, but not much, and I've never received feedback on my Spanish work. I also really love group therapy and supervision/training. I applied to lots of competitive sites which have strong group programs, opportunity to supervise others, and at least the possibility of doing clinical work in Spanish, with extra bonus points to sites who have other Spanish-speaking clinicians on staff, especially psychologists.

So my dilemma: There are a few sites where the probability of doing clinical work in Spanish is almost 100% and there are other Spanish-speaking clinicians (not necessarily psychologists) on staff, but these same sites do not offer any rotation in supervision of others. Other sites offer group and sup rotations, but the probability of using my Spanish is much less.

All my sites are APA accredited UCCs, I'm originally from California, would like to get back, and I'd like to be competitive for faculty positions but am very open to working at a UCC.

Does the opportunity to work in Spanish trump more experience (I already have close to 200 hours) in supervision of others? Does the chance to use Spanish at a "less prestigious" university trump the opportunity to intern at a "big name" university?
Any other bilingual applicants experiencing similar challenges?

thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts!

 

[tpink]

How early will you wake up on the 21st? I think they send result out by 8am eastern standard time. How will you spend your morning?

I cleared my schedule for the whole day. I'm starting my day by walking my dog and then I'll be checking my phone incessantly until I get the email. After that, I plan on starting my morning with mimosas and breakfast. Whether I match or don't, I think mimosas will be the best way to start that morning. lol

 

[psychrat]

I cleared my schedule for the whole day. I'm starting my day by walking my dog and then I'll be checking my phone incessantly until I get the email. After that, I plan on starting my morning with mimosas and breakfast. Whether I match or don't, I think mimosas will be the best way to start that morning. lol

mimosas are a GREAT idea 🙂

 

[cara susanna]

I cleared my schedule for the whole day. I'm starting my day by walking my dog and then I'll be checking my phone incessantly until I get the email. After that, I plan on starting my morning with mimosas and breakfast. Whether I match or don't, I think mimosas will be the best way to start that morning. lol

I'm making my husband take me out to breakfast 🙂 Mimosas sound good too!

I'm in the central time zone so it sounds like I'll get mine pretty early. I'm going to try to get a good night's sleep but who knows. Depending on what time I get up, I'll probably just sit at my computer refreshing my email incessantly, watching Netflix or entertaining YouTube videos, or listening to music. And posting on this thread about "aghhhh when will the email arrive??" with all of you fine people of course!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Last follow-up convo was this morning. So glad to be finished with this stage! I'm going to ask a ranking question, please ignore if you are not interested.

I'm Spanish-English bilingual (actually Spanish was my first language) and have had limited opportunities to practice in Spanish during graduate school in the upper midwest. I"m in a counseling psych phd program. Although we have no Spanish speaking faculty members, I've done clinical interviews, intellectual assessments, individual therapy, and supervision of others in Spanish. Now, of my 600+ total direct hours, I'd estimate around 35 have been in Spanish; some, but not much, and I've never received feedback on my Spanish work. I also really love group therapy and supervision/training. I applied to lots of competitive sites which have strong group programs, opportunity to supervise others, and at least the possibility of doing clinical work in Spanish, with extra bonus points to sites who have other Spanish-speaking clinicians on staff, especially psychologists.

So my dilemma: There are a few sites where the probability of doing clinical work in Spanish is almost 100% and there are other Spanish-speaking clinicians (not necessarily psychologists) on staff, but these same sites do not offer any rotation in supervision of others. Other sites offer group and sup rotations, but the probability of using my Spanish is much less.

All my sites are APA accredited UCCs, I'm originally from California, would like to get back, and I'd like to be competitive for faculty positions but am very open to working at a UCC.

Does the opportunity to work in Spanish trump more experience (I already have close to 200 hours) in supervision of others? Does the chance to use Spanish at a "less prestigious" university trump the opportunity to intern at a "big name" university?
Any other bilingual applicants experiencing similar challenges?

thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts!

One thing I'd ask--do the sites without an actual rotation in supervision still allow for supervision on the "normal" rotations, assuming an extern is available? I know that with my own internship (and at the site where I'm currently located), there aren't any official supervision rotations, but the opportunity to provide it still exists.

In your case specifically, it certainly seems like you're very interested in gaining more experience practicing in Spanish, and you have fewer hours in that than supervision. Thus, I'd say it would make sense to rank that particular aspect of a site more highly. Besides, if you plan on doing a postdoc, your opportunities to provide supervision will likely be numerous.

 

[dasherva13]

How early will you wake up on the 21st? I think they send result out by 8am eastern standard time. How will you spend your morning?

Assuming I can sleep the night before, I'll wake around 6, as I do every day thanks to my 2 little alarm clocks, get them fed and dressed and off to school and then try to make myself breakfast before incessantly refreshing my email. Definitely planning on a nice breakfast, and my husband has already promised to drop off my son and pick up a huge tub of ice cream on the way home. But yes, I cleared the day for emotional processing, which I figure I'll need a lot of either way after this process!
Also, is it *by* 8am, or between 8 and 9am EST? I always thought it was the latter.

 

[psychrat]

Assuming I can sleep the night before, I'll wake around 6, as I do every day thanks to my 2 little alarm clocks, get them fed and dressed and off to school and then try to make myself breakfast before incessantly refreshing my email. Definitely planning on a nice breakfast, and my husband has already promised to drop off my son and pick up a huge tub of ice cream on the way home. But yes, I cleared the day for emotional processing, which I figure I'll need a lot of either way after this process!
Also, is it *by* 8am, or between 8 and 9am EST? I always thought it was the latter.

between 8 and 9am est

 

[rmenoch]

The TD at one of my top sites left me a message earlier today saying that they were finalizing the ranking list and wanted to check in. Of course, given the nature of this process my first thought was, "Would a TD call just to tell you the site isn't ranking you?" Luckily, he just wanted to see if I had any last questions to help me make the most informed ranking decisions on my end. Hopefully that means the site likes me 🙂

 

[dasherva13]

between 8 and 9am est

Thanks. I know it's splitting hairs, but this probably just saved me a significant amount of anxiety at 8am on the 21st when there was nothing there yet.

 

[psychrat]

Thanks. I know it's splitting hairs, but this probably just saved me a significant amount of anxiety at 8am on the 21st when there was nothing there yet.

I know. I do not plan on signing on my email until 8:30 to help manage the anxiety.