2014 Nontrad Applicants' Progress Thread

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Now I'm curious. By state do you mean it wasn't its own republic (as in union of Soviet socialist)?
It was an independent country (Bulgaria). In the 50s, I think, our head of the state tried to make us join the Soviet Union and become the 16th Soviet Republic but the Russians told us to pound sand. Embarrassing details like that were quickly glanced over in the history books, so I'm not really sure exactly what went on.
 
It was an independent country (Bulgaria). In the 50s, I think, our head of the state tried to make us join the Soviet Union and become the 16th Soviet Republic but the Russians told us to pound sand. Embarrassing details like that were quickly glanced over in the history books, so I'm not really sure exactly what went on.
Cool. I think chitty chitty bang bang flew there in the movie.
 
Seriously though. Ussr probably just wanted a buffer from nato Greece and turkey.
 
Refusing to expand its territory? This sounds suspiciously not like my country 😀 But I gotcha 😉
That would have killed completely any international tourism. 😛
Cool. I think chitty chitty bang bang flew there in the movie.
Having seen the movie only a couple of months ago, I have a song stuck in my head now. 😀
 
Seriously though. Ussr probably just wanted a buffer from nato Greece and turkey.
Could be. Officially, we were supposed to hold them for 1/2 hour until help arrived. At least that's how it was explained to us in class. :ninja:
 
I was writing an autobiography for one of the secondaries and some of the details from my earlier years felt rather hard to explain in a sensible manner. Like having a job assigned to you.
Yep, explaining all those things can take up a lot of characters. The upside of this is, your story can pique adcom's curiosity. Honestly, I feel like some schools invited me just to see what kind of a crazy person I am.
 
That would have killed completely any international tourism. 😛
You mean, the thriving international tourism between our 2 countries during the Soviet time? 😀 Золотые пески?
To those not in on the joke: remember the "iron curtain"? People from the so-called "Soviet block" (Eastern European socialist countries) were limited to travel only within the block (with very rare exceptions, like diplomats, sports and music stars etc.), and even that was quite a big deal.
 
Don't get me started on worst European militaries. I saw an eBay listing once, for a French infantry rifle. "never fired, dropped once"
Let's just say that there is a humongous difference between what the military is, how they are regarded and how goes there between here and well, back there. 😉
 
Yep, explaining all those things can take up a lot of characters. The upside of this is, your story can pique adcom's curiosity. Honestly, I feel like some schools invited me just to see what kind of a crazy person I am.
Without stalking you, I think you're doing a rather fine job of piquing their curiosity so far. 😉
 
You mean, the thriving international tourism between our 2 countries during the Soviet time? 😀 Золотые пески?
To those not in on the joke: remember the "iron curtain"? People from the so-called "Soviet block" (Eastern European socialist countries) were limited to travel only within the block (with very rare exceptions, like diplomats, sports and music stars etc.), and even that was quite a big deal.
Да, точно. 🙂 Or експрес дружбе? If you have heard about it/remember it.
I don't know about your side but we would get passports only for specific trips and were supposed to return them back when the trip was over. As I mentioned, there are concepts from that time that are so far off from our current lives, I don't know even where to start.
 
Without stalking you, I think you're doing a rather fine job of piquing their curiosity so far. 😉
I'm definitely not complaining 🙂
(And you just wait 😉)
Да, точно. 🙂 Or експрес дружбе? If you have heard about it/remember it.
I don't know about your side but we would get passports only for specific trips and were supposed to return them back when the trip was over. As I mentioned, there are concepts from that time that are so far off from our current lives, I don't know even where to start.
I remember the name експрес дружбе though I'm not quite sure what it is (or, rather, was).
I never traveled abroad before the USSR collapsed, but I know that people were required to have security clearance before any international travel and were debriefed by the officials even after trips to the friendly socialist countries. I agree, this kind of things does take a lot of explaining.
 
I'm definitely not complaining 🙂
(And you just wait 😉)

I remember the name експрес дружбе though I'm not quite sure what it is (or, rather, was).
I never traveled abroad before the USSR collapsed, but I know that people were required to have security clearance before any international travel and were debriefed by the officials even after trips to the friendly socialist countries. I agree, this kind of things does take a lot of explaining.
It was a trip on a train. 😉 From what I know, from Bulgaria to Москва & Ленинград, although I presume the other socialist countries had their own version. I never went abroad either but my grandfather did when I was a little kid. He brought me an amazingly cool луноход on batteries which blinking lights and a cable. That's probably as much as I can remember...
 
I suppose you guys don't watch the new series on fx "the Americans"
I watched it and quite liked it because the chracters are complex and human and not some stereotypical 2-dimensional villainous Soviet spies. I can't really say if the series is historically accurate, but the plot and the production quality are good. I believe the show is kind of tongue in cheek considering the action takes place in the beginning of the 80s, just a few years before the collapse of the USSR when none of the things the characters worry so much about will matter anymore.
 
😀
I also don't have TV but I watched The Americans on Hulu I think.
Wife and I are actually considering stopping our cable service. Too much money and we watch a lot of stuff that might be available on Netflix or hulu anyway. Hmmmm.
 
Wife and I are actually considering stopping our cable service. Too much money and we watch a lot of stuff that might be available on Netflix or hulu anyway. Hmmmm.
The only drawback is that not watching the next episode of a a show I like, when it's only a click away, is sooooo hard.
 
I was a non-traditional student (worked as an engineer for 9 years before deciding to take the plunge) and was lucky to get into med school in the US on the first shot at the age of 32. I graduated and have completed two years of residency (one in family medicine, then switched to internal medicine). One of my friends (also an engineer) is currently in the process of applying to med school this cycle and asked for advice, so I visited SDN to see what has changed in the seven years or so since I applied.

Given all that's going on in medicine today and the relative lack of enthusiasm common in residency, it's really refreshing to see the excitement in this forum. As a non-traditional applicant myself that "succeeded" in getting in, though, I thought I would share one piece of advice.

Grades and other measures of academic prowess are important due to the competitive nature of the application process. However, becoming a physician is not about a towering intellect or even a sparkling personality. It is, first and foremost, about persistence and the ability to deal effectively with the HUGE financial sacrifice and time commitment required, particularly in residency. Having gone through it myself, I firmly believe most of you will succeed in getting in, whether it's on your first try or after several attempts. If you want it bad enough and are willing to sacrifice, you will get in.

I only chose to add my two cents after reading some of the great posts about current family / relationship status and other interests outside medicine that some of you have contributed (e.g. doctorold and therainemaiden, to name a couple). All I can say is that, particularly for non-traditional students, you must do your best to become fully informed of the time commitment, family / relationship sacrifices, diminishing financial benefits, etc... involved in the process. I was married and already had one child when I started medical school. I can tell you that it has been a HUGE struggle personally and financially to get where I am. And sadly, if asked whether I would do it again or not, my answer would have to be no.

I am in no way trying to discourage anyone, but I just wanted to stress the importance, for both you and those you care about, of being fully informed of the process. Talk to other non-traditional students at all stages of the process (preclinical years, clinical rotations, interns, residents, and practicing physicians). Read as much as possible about the current state of medicine for practicing physicians and about being an "older" med student / resident (just finished one great book named A Quiet Death, but there are several others out there). All of these conversations and reading will not be a waste. It will not only help you make sure your decision to become a physician is the right one but also serve as great preparation for interviews. (It was my experience that, as an older applicant, interviewers were quite prone to asking about family, past career(s), motivation to change careers, awareness of current state of healthcare policy, etc...)

I really wish all of you the best of luck. Don't be discouraged by the grueling process, but definitely do everything in your power to make sure this is the right decision for you. If you take an honest, well-informed look at the process and still want to move ahead, or if you already have, the good news is that you will very likely get in. Persistence, thick skin, and hard work is all it takes to get there.
 
Captain Sisko, I don't miss TV at all. In fact, between Hulu and Amazon (I put Netflix on hold for the time being) I think I waste just as much, if not more, time 😛

docrock1, thank you for joining us and for your advice! I absolutely agree that we should keep our eyes open and get as much first hand information about the medical training process as possible. And I believe that most of us in this thread do that. For example, I work at an academic medical center, which gives me plenty of opportunities to interact with doctors in all stages of training. I know that preclinical years are hard and the 3d year is a lot harder (though the 4th year is awesome) for most students and that residency pretty much sucks, but I also know that it'll be worth it in the end. I know I may sound like a naive premed to you, and I realize that I won't really *get* how hard medical training is until I start it, but I want to point out that you're in the hardest part of medical training now and that it gets better - at least that's what my attending friends tell me, including the one who started med school a year older than I will and who just became an attending/clinical faculty at an academic medical center in the subspecialty I'm interested in. Yes, she tells me it was hard for her - *physically* hard, she said - especially in the residency, but now she's very happy about the choice she made. I think it will probably help to start medical training expecting hard work and not much compensation (financial or emotional or any other kind) - just as you're advising us - and you'll be less likely to become bitter in the process. I realize I know nothing about it compared to you, but people further up in medical training tell me there is light in the end of this tunnel.
 
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You're very welcome...

Even now, I do believe there is light at the end of the tunnel. But the key is to remember that this is a very personal concept that I believe is almost completely based on initial expectations versus actual experience. If your initial expectations are in line with the reality of the profession (time commitment, family sacrifice, declining compensation / therapeutic freedom, political direction of medicine, etc...), then the likelihood of interpreting the future as "light at the end of the tunnel" increases significantly. That was the purpose of my post, simply to advise everyone to take a hard look at the profession as it is, not some idealized version of what it was or should be. Because the commitment is so large, particularly for those with prior careers, families, other responsibilities, I just wanted to propose asking hard questions, reading, etc...

I personally know of two residents (also non-traditional) that left residency early precisely because they were dissatisfied with not only the grueling nature of the training but also the current direction of the profession. For them, there was not light at the end of the tunnel because their experience in residency (as well as outlook for the future of their specialty) was not in line with their expectations. But that is certainly not the case for all or even a majority of residents (though, trust me, I know very few residents that never question their decisions at some point in their training).

As for being naive, I do not believe you or anyone else is naive at all, at least no more so than I was before actually going through med school and a couple years of residency. Hearing things or reading things is always different than actually experiencing them yourself. I was just suggesting you ask as many hard questions as possible and read and observe as much as possible to bridge that gap and be as informed as possible. I also realize most of you do / have done that, so I was just stressing the importance of that process for any non-traditional students that haven't done as much. Med school / residency are tough, for many reasons (not all of which I can mention here without being even more long-winded), and even the most caring physicians can also be horrible / rude / poor / unforgiving teachers and bosses at times which sometimes complicates matters further. And the financial realities, time commitment, etc. are tough for anyone, but can be particularly discouraging / crushing for non-traditional students that have much less time to "catch up" or "make up for lost time," so to speak.

Bottom line, keep asking questions, and just get yourself as ready as possible for the ride. To me, the greatest challenges ahead are not academic. Don't get me wrong, the classes are tough (most of the people you train with were top 5% of their class in college, so vast majority will not be top 5% of their med school class and that can be difficult for many "overachievers"), and the hours are grueling. But the biggest challenge you will face, now and throughout your career, will be the battle of reconciling expectations with reality as you go through the process. No amount of talking or reading will change that, but it will at least soften the blow.

Hope that helps, and feel free to ask any questions you may have. Philosophical or practical...lol.

Take care.
 
Happy Thanksgiving y'all! As an immigrant, I really get this holiday.

Flying to NYC in a couple hours to spend the holiday with my friends (who are pretty much my family here) - and for my last interview on Tuesday. Have a lot to be grateful for this year :happy:
 
Happy Thanksgiving guys!
Happy thanksgiving from me too!
Happy Thanksgiving y'all! As an immigrant, I really get this holiday.

Flying to NYC in a couple hours to spend the holiday with my friends (who are pretty much my family here) - and for my last interview on Tuesday. Have a lot to be grateful for this year :happy:
Due to some random luck, my first day in the states was thanksgiving day. So it is a small anniversary for me as well. 🙂

Enjoy NYC and good luck on Tuesday! :xf:
 
Rejection #2 today.. no love from the west coast >.<
 
Sorry to hear that guys... West coast is an especially tough one.
 
Well hey, there's always residency, right? Having one acceptance already removes a lot of pressure.
I heard some good things about residencies on this side of the country when I was shadowing, so it's certainly worth revisiting the area in 4 years. 😉
 
(I've been in a not exactly negative, but let's say realistic mood lately, so please forgive my lack of bubbly enthusiasm.) Yep, you can apply for West coast residencies... though I hear they're still hard to get into.
On the related topic, I'm seriously considering residency programs at some of the schools I've interviewed at - I'll be very interested in going there for residency even if I don't get accepted to that med school or *choose* not to attend it (say, for financial reasons). I guess I'm getting waaaay ahead of myself 🙂
 
(I've been in a not exactly negative, but let's say realistic mood lately, so please forgive my lack of bubbly enthusiasm.) Yep, you can apply for West coast residencies... though I hear they're still hard to get into.
On the related topic, I'm seriously considering residency programs at some of the schools I've interviewed at - I'll be very interested in going there for residency even if I don't get accepted to that med school or *choose* not to attend it (say, for financial reasons). I guess I'm getting waaaay ahead of myself 🙂

I guess I'm not picky, but I have a mentality of board-certified-is-board-certified. I have a few ideas of what field of medicine to pursue, but I really wouldn't mind completing residency where I've finished school. I'm buying a house, so there's less pressure of having to sell it. I would already know the facilities. Hopefully, with a solid attitude and aptitude during medical school, I would have build a good rapport with some house officers.
 
Radio silence for everyone else? It's been quiet for me, save rejections from Brown and Dartmouth pre-interview. Should hear back from a couple others post-i this week. How's everyone doing?
 
Nothing on this end. Still waiting to hear from Dartmouth, but expecting the same as you at this point. Been complete forever.

Got a couple interviews coming up, and I'm slightly less exhausted now at least. Though I've been working between 60 and 70 hours a week...sigh. Too poor not to, after this application cycle.
 
Yes, it's been really quiet here. Turned down another II, waiting for 2 post-interview decisions this week or so, too.

Acceptmeplease, it makes a perfectly good sense to stay with your school for residency. I just really want to get out of TX 😀 So if I end up staying here for school - whether because no other school accepts me or because I choose to stay out of financial considerations -I would *really* want to go somewhere else for residensy (where I don't have to pay tuition 😉). Not that there's anything wrong with TX, and UTSW is great, TX is just not for me.
 
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Yes, it's been really quiet here. Turned down another II, waiting for 2 post-interview decisions this week or so, too.

Acceptmeplease, it makes a perfectly good sense to stay with your school for residency. I just really want to get out of TX 😀 So if I end up staying here for school - whether because no other school accepts me or because I choose to stay out of financial considerations -I would *really* want to go somewhere else for residensy (where I don't have to pay tuition 😉). Not that there's anything wrong with TX, and UTSW is great, TX is just not for me.
Too hot/red/big/stupid?
 
Too hot/red/big/stupid?
All of the above 😀 Just kidding!
Aside from the climate, which I'm really suffering from, I think the main issue is that I am, after all, a foreigner. While this country and its people have been amazingly welcoming to me - which I greatly appreciate - Texas is not the most immigrant-friendly state, what with the abundance of illegal undocumented immigrants from south of the border and the associated prejudices about people speaking with an accent. I just need to open my mouth for many Texans to automatically assume that I'm Mexican - even though I look nothing like one - and that I'm illegal and uneducated. Some of them even start speaking Spanish to me, the 3 words in Spanish that they know - and the funny thing is, I speak more Spanish than they do because I've been making an effort to learn it 😛 Not to mention I can speak English, too, thank you very much.
Plus, there are many aspects of TX culture that I just don't *get*.
Plus, I'm a liberal... and an agnostic... and - gasp! - a scientist... so yeah.
 
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Radio silence for everyone else? It's been quiet for me, save rejections from Brown and Dartmouth pre-interview. Should hear back from a couple others post-i this week. How's everyone doing?

All I can do at this point is wait! It's good that there are a lot of things to distract me in the next few weeks. I may hear from some schools this month, but then there's still a long wait until those non-rolling March decision schools.
 
All of the above 😀 Just kidding!
Aside from the climate, which I'm really suffering from, I think the main issue is that I am, after all, a foreigner. While this country and its people have been amazingly welcoming to me - which I greatly appreciate - Texas is not the most immigrant-friendly state, what with the abundance of illegal undocumented immigrants from south of the border and the associated prejudices about people speaking with an accent. I just need to open my mouth for many Texans to automatically assume that I'm Mexican - even though I look nothing like one - and that I'm illegal and uneducated. Some of them even start speaking Spanish to me, the 3 words in Spanish that they know - and the funny thing is, I speak more Spanish than they do because I've been making an effort to learn it 😛 Not to mention I can speak English, too, thank you very much.
Plus, there are many aspects of TX culture that I just don't *get*.
Plus, I'm a liberal... and an agnostic... and - gasp! - a scientist... so yeah.
Haha cool. I've sort of formed a hypothesis that people who emigrate from communist or formerly communist countries tend to vote conservative, to almost over-counteract their experiences. Evidenced by cubans in Florida, a largely republican leaning bloc that's a rarity among latinos. I've heard of a lot of Russians leaning conservative too, but obviously not the case with everyone.
 
I'm sitting on one acceptance (not incredibly excited because it's to a school that outright said they wouldn't be offering much aid) and seven interview invites!
Didn't expect to be getting so much love, feeling really lucky.
 
No love lost for Texas, I see 😀

Speaking of people from former socialist countries - well, I can't speaks of Cubans because I only know a couple of them, but I think I have a pretty representative sample of people from the formed USSR and Eastern Europe - there is a great diversity of political views: older people tend to be conservative (based on the "I'm right because I'm not left" kind of logic Captain Sisko referred to), younger people like me, educated professionals in particular, tend to be liberal.

Back to the topic: way to go MamiMD! Best of luck at your upcoming interviews!
 
Had that MMI today. Loved the school...but not blown away by the interview format. I felt like a bumbling idiot for a few of the stations, when I quite frankly didn't have much to say on the prompt. So I just started rambling...on and on. Also felt like there was no way for me to sell myself like I can in a traditional interview. Hopefully I did well enough to be considered for admission.
 
I second that.
Pose, you never really know how well you did at an interview and how much weight an interview has in the ultimate decision. Hope you get into the school you really love!
 
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