[2015-2016] EM Rank Order List Thread

[EMHopeful9012]

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[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: DO student with 2 ACGME aways (honors). I cared about location, significant other's preference, perceived resident happiness.

1) Cook County - close to home, cool city, great training, laid back residents

2) Wake Forest - old program, friendly faculty and residents, outdoor activities nearby

3) Maricopa - awesome residents, a lot of outdoor activities, PD is passionate about resident education

4) JPS - newer program but fit in well with the residents at the dinner. The hospital sees a lot of sick patients and Fort Worth is a cool city.

5) WashU - amazing facilities and innovative PD when it comes to resident education. Didn't see many downsides but felt like I fit better with residents at other programs.

6) Eastern Virginia Medical School
7 ) MCW
8) UMKC
9) Baystate Medical Center
10) Nevada/Las Vegas
11) Jackson Memorial
12) Christus Spohn Memorial

 

[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Fit, reputation, location

1) University of Washington (Seattle). Pros: location, good mix of county and academics, young program with energetic faculty. Cons: ER was surgery-run until recently--not sure how much of an effect this still has.

2) NYU--Pros: awesome tox, location, Bellevue--not a lot of trauma, but great weird county stuff, really liked the residents and the PD. cons: lack of trauma, cost of living in NYC.

3) Cook County--pros: Great county program, good trauma exposure, location, all 8-hr shifts. Cons: more floor months than any other program I interviewed at, not super academic, harder to do research apparently.

4) Northwestern--pros: location, very academic, very committed PD with the famous "good sell," seems like decent mix of wealthy and underserved patients. Cons: 3 months in Gary, Indiana, also I got a pretentious vibe here that I didn't get from any other EM program, definitely rubbed me the wrong way at first, but PD and residents seem awesome and generally down-to-earth.

5) Penn---pros: PD was super down-to-earth, residents seem very happy, very academic, great path. cons: maybe a little too academic?

6) Downstate
7) Jacobi/Montefiore
8) New Mexico Einstein (Philly)
9) UVA
10) UConn
11) Lincoln
12) Beth Israel (NYC)
13) Christ Advocate

 

[nejadm]

Gotta be one of the most interesting lists posted yet.

Describing UC Irvine (located in one of the richest areas of California) as a large underserved patient population.

Then describing Cook County (trauma is completely separate from the main ED and run by surgery) as having legendary trauma experience.

Actually UC Irvine Medical Center is not in Irvine but in Orange. It serves Santa Ana, Anaheim, Garden Grove, and Orange. These are very well under-served areas.

 

[StephBee]

No good reason not to throw mine into the mix. I'm pretty easy to identify so that's why I've avoided it till now. Things I looked for: program type, opportunities for fellowship, location, fit. I'm planning on doing an CC fellowship (or 6 year em/im/cc) so I looked for that mostly in my programs.
1. UMD EM/IM: I loved this program. It's well known for a reason and their ICU experience is bananas. I don't love baltimore but I think I can easily live there for a few years.
2. Henry ford EM/IM: also has a bananas ICU experience. This was the place I got the warmest fuzzies with the residents. I debated on 1 and 2 FOREVER before decided that I had a slight preference for baltimore vs detroit. But if I ended up at either, I'd be thrilled.
3. Vident ECU EM/IM: Just started their 6th year crit. I don't like greenville but I loved the residents and I figured the program was more important than the location.
4. LIJ EM/IM: Another place that I chose program type over location. I don't love queens/LI but I'll survive. I didn't get a great vibe from the residents (they weren't really present during the day) but the program is solid and I could see myself happy there.

EM Programs:
5. UMD: see above. Bananas.
6. Rochester: this was the other place that I got great warm fuzzies from. They send a lot of people to fellowships, I like upstate NY (did undergrad there). Brownie points that many of my med school friends also loved it here and are ranking it within their top 3.
7. Christiana: Really clicked with the residents here. I like the program a lot, I like the area.
8. EVMS: this was the real surprising program for me. I clicked with the residents (I think we all did a shot of something during the dinner, whats not to love) and I was surprised how much I liked norfolk. 6 7 and 8 were all very close for me.
9. Henry ford: see above.
10. Wisconsin: liked the program, liked the residence, liked the city but higher COL. Didn't love anything.
11. Wake forest: very established well known program. really liked the program but didn't jive well with the residents. And I'm not sold on living in NC (see ECU above)
The rest in no real order: Penn state, ECU EM, LIJ EJ, Peoria, Upstate, dartmouth. These were lower either because I didn't like the place (too rural), was too community focused for me, was 4 years etc.

 

[lp430]

Seeing everyone's rank lists are very interesting. Keep 'em coming!

 

[deleted720339]

Denver is a popular #2.

Seeing everyone's lists is really interesting. It is funny to think how many of us have probably met.

 

[StephBee]

I'm sure it's a lot. I'm also sure that I don't remember any of you


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[alpinism]

Actually UC Irvine Medical Center is not in Irvine but in Orange. It serves Santa Ana, Anaheim, Garden Grove, and Orange. These are very well under-served areas.

Lol you can't be serious.
And yes I know where UCI Medical Center is located.

From US Census Data:
Orange has a median household income of $78,000 and only 11.8% of the population lives below the poverty line.
Anaheim and Garden Grove both have median household incomes of $59,000 and only around 15% of their population lives below the poverty line.
Santa Ana is the only city that even comes remotely close to being underserved but its still mostly a middle class city.

For comparison:
East Los Angeles: $38,000 and 27%
El Monte: $40,000 and 24%
Compton: $42,000 and 26%
Inglewood: $43,000 and 22%

Orange is only "underserved" if you're comparing it to Laguna Beach or Beverly Hills.

 

[Swingman]

This is fascinating.

It's so interesting to see how everyone's lists shake out. Programs I ranked very highly are in the bottom third of some people's lists and vice versa.

Lots of love for Cook County so far.

 

[Cinematographer]

I'm sure it's a lot. I'm also sure that I don't remember any of you


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

There were at least 3 people on the interview trail that actually ended up figuring out who I was on here. One was a classmate of mine and that made sense to me, but how the rest figured out is unclear. Never talked to anyone about SDN nor do I look like my avatar (that would be Frank Ocean)!

 

[HumerusBaker]

I for sure met jgauger on the trail haha

And I can't post my ROL because I'd be instantly identified.

 

[StephBee]

It would take someone like 3 neurons and maybe 2 google searches to find me chose this username a long time ago and didn't care about anonymity then.... And I was too lazy to make a new account


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[jgauger]

I for sure met jgauger on the trail haha

And I can't post my ROL because I'd be instantly identified.

Well since my screen name is my real name, I'm pretty identifiable. Now to figure out who you are. Since you aren't posting your ROL, it'll be tough.

 

[shademps]

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[Cinematographer]

You guys/gals have me working tonight!

_______
Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Fit, location including SO's preferences. 250s steps, all honors.

1) UCSF-SFGH: PROS - Location, mix of academic and county, quality of off service rotations, protected conference time, patient population, attendings. CONS - COL (although partially offset by housing stipend), lots of specialists around.

2) Highland: PROS - family feel, autonomy, acuity, outside rotations, graduate placement, location. CONS - COL.

3) Washington/Harborview

4) OHSU

 

[Cinematographer]

Removed at the request of anonymous poster.

 

[deleted547339]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Considerations: overall fit/vibe, location, county > academic, reputation, 4 yrs > 3 yrs. Stats: Step 1 255 / Step 2 269; AOA; Honors on 1 home + 2 away EM rotations; told I had great SLOEs; decent ECs, 1st author paper not related to EM. Applied to 20 programs, interviewed at 16, declined 1 interview, waitlisted at 1, no response from 2.

1) Harbor-UCLA– Pros: best overall vibe; friendly, chill, smart residents; county; excellent reputation; teaching sign-outs; super busy; sick patients; great pathology and trauma; high acuity; good peds exposure; underserved patient population; LA weather. Cons: LA traffic; lowish salary; will be first year with 4th year residents; no academic exposure.

2) LAC+USC–Pros: by far the best-trained residents I encountered on the trail; county; excellent reputation; super busy; sick patients; interesting pathology; high acuity; unreal trauma; underserved patient population; respond to codes in the rest of the hospital; jail ED; LA weather. Cons: residents also work harder than anywhere else I went; residents are nice, but conform to a certain personality type that is not really me; LA traffic; homogenous patient population; no academic exposure.

3) UCLA-Oliveview–Pros: really nice and friendly residents; great mix of county/academic; awesome PD who really cares about the residents; great reputation; had great interviews here; lots of opportunities/resources; LA weather. Cons: LA traffic; high COL; I heard the PD is leaving soon.

4) Highland–Pros: Bay area; county; chill vibe; had fun interviews here; well-respected program; exposure to county, community and academic; underserved patient population; sick patients; great trauma; diverse group of residents; really liked the PD and APD. Cons: heard off-service rotations are meh; a little too close to my family; Bay Area traffic.

5) Harvard MGH/BWH–Pros: biggest surprise for me, didn't think I would like it as much I did! pleasantly surprised at how chill and friendly the residents were (not pretentious or snobby); insane opportunities/resources; complex sick patients; high acuity; Harvard reputation. Cons: Boston weather; pretty academic; no county exposure; not as much trauma.

6) Stanford–Pros: really great vibe; chill residents; academic, county, and community exposure; insane resources; Stanford reputation; had great interviews here. Cons: a little too academic; high COL; new PD, new dept chair, new 4 year program, new hospital ... too many changes at once

7) NYU/Bellvue–Pros: coolest residents that I met on the trail; awesome vibe; county; great reputation; underserved patient population. Cons: had a weird interview that really pissed me off; insane COL; don't love the idea of living in NYC; NYC weather; not a lot of trauma.

8) Brown–Pros: If I wasn't single, this would be much much higher on my list; very friendly residents; great reputation; had great interviews here; low COL. Cons: all the residents are coupled off; Providence is a little too small; weather sucks

9) Harvard BIDMC

10) UCSF/SFGH

11-16) UCSD, UC Davis, UC Irvine, Mt. Sinai, Jacobi, Downstate

Truthfully, I think if I ended up at any of these programs, I would be ecstatically happy. The differences between them were smaller than the overall similarities. They are all great programs.

Whoa whoa whoa, you prefer a 4 year program???

 

[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: STEP 1/2> 250s. Top 1/4 of class. Was medic before med school. For me the most important thing was fit > reputation >>>>>> everything else (location, length, perks/benefits, moonlighting)

1) Denver
2) Carolinas
3) Indiana
4) University of Michigan
5) UCSF-Fresno
6) Vanderbilt
7) LAC+USC
8) Cook County
9) Maricopa
10) LSU New Orleans
11) Advocate Christ
12) Palmetto Health

____
@Cinematographer: Fix original typo that listed Cook county twice. Apologies. Lots of ROLs coming in at the same time.

 

[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: location, fit >> salary, benefits, reputation, rotations, shifts, moonlighting, etc. Would be happy to match anywhere but especially top 6 or 7. These are the top 5 in ***alphabetical*** order.

Dartmouth: (+) emphasis on on-shift teaching, strong in rural/wilderness/EMS/flight, nice facilities, residents seemed happy, location (White Mountains, Green Mountains, maybe a few other colors too), trauma in Baltimore, 18-19(?) 9hr shifts (+/-) small class size, lower volume (30-35k) and acuity but decent patient/resident ratio (-) 6 months off-site, less moonlighting.

Indiana: (+) high volume and acuity (rotate at the only three level 1 trauma centers in the state), strong reputation, roughly 20/18/17 9hr shifts with circadian scheduling, strong peds, lots of ICU time, good benefits, moonlighting opportunities (6 hour fast track shifts at $80/hr, or external moonlighting at $150+/hr), specialty tracks, work Colts games (+/-) large class size (-) multiple sites with different EMR's, no mountains, no flight.

Nevada: (+) high volume, high acuity, lots of procedures, dedicated trauma shifts, ethnic diversity, wilderness and event medicine opportunities (Burning Man, EDC, etc.), solid in peds, tox in Denver, lots of ICU time, good benefits and no state income tax, location (Red Rock, Lake Mead, Charleston Peak, Death Valley, Zion, Grand Canyon, Sierras, etc.), residents seemed like my kind of people (+/-) 18/17/16 12hr shifts (-) hot summers, moonlighting PGY3 only, heard the EMR isn't great (plans to upgrade in next year or so).

Wright State: (+) multiple unique sites (urban under-served, urban academic, suburban, Childrens, Air Force base), different sites all use EPIC EMR, moonlighting, 18/18/18 9hr shifts, lots of ICU and ED time (+/-) large class size (-) multiple training sites might be disorienting, no mountains.

West Virginia: (+) rural/wilderness/EMS/flight, scribes PGY2-3, extra 5 days vacation on either Thanksgiving or Christmas, decent outdoors options (hiking, rafting, skiing etc.), month at 8-bed community ED seems unique (+/-) lots of off-service time PGY1, but rotations seem well thought out, 20/19/18 10hr shifts per calendar month, lower volume around 50-55k and similar patient/resident ratio as Dartmouth (-) less penetrating trauma, college town.

 

[StephInfection]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: STEP 1/2> 250s. Top 1/4 of class. Was medic before med school. For me the most important thing was fit > reputation >>>>>> everything else (location, length, perks/benefits, moonlighting)

1) Denver
2) Carolinas
3) Indiana
4) University of Michigan
5) UCSF-Fresno
6) Vanderbilt
7) LAC+USC
8) Cook County
9) Maricopa
9) LSU New Orleans
10) Cook County
11) Advocate Christ
12) Palmetto Health

-Ultimate gunner... Had two cook county interviews

 

[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: USMD from top school, Step 1 ~225, Step 2 ~260, strong SLOEs and EM extracurriculars. Main considerations were program reputation, location, fit, ED autonomy, badassery, free food/parking, and suitability to couples match (partner going into a different specialty).

1) LAC+USC - very strong clinical training, highly autonomous ED, residents seemed strong and were a fun group, overall the best personality fit, family in the area, free food.

2) Highland - nice people, great training, expensive location, free food.

3) UW - new program that appears to have all the major kinks worked out on paper, but still a bit nervous about the dying vestiges of the Surgery/EM relationship owing back to the Copass days.

4) Vanderbilt - great faculty, residents seemed happy, 3 years. Cons: culture potentially a little out of my West Coast comfort zone.

5) Denver - probably objectively the strongest program I interviewed at. Senior residents are total badasses. A little concerned about the work-life balance and the general intensity of the training there, but the residents seemed happy overall.

6) UCSD - strong academic program, clinical experience seemingly weaker than above programs (weird trauma experience with traumas run on 2nd floor), location is sweet enough to make up for any qualms...some residents surf 4 times/week.

7) Hennepin - aggressively autonomous, well-funded county ED, great ultrasound experience, strong and nice faculty, the Stab Room is best resus bay I've seen, senior resident Pitboss role is badass. Would have been much higher up (probably my #1), but my SO (couples matching) didn't love her corresponding program options and the location.

Rest of the list: UCLA-OV, Stanford, Davis, Utah, U of Chicago, OHSU, Irvine, Regions, Mayo.

 

[Cinematographer]

-Ultimate gunner... Had two cook county interviews

See my update.

Apologies.

 

[Cinematographer]

@Cinematographer's Note: Thanks for the heads up. Fixed the template.

______
Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Location, geography, locale, city, underserved patient population, hospital settings, culture of hippiness/idealism.

*ps for Cinematographer: on the google doc form the 4th entry says "Program #5," just FYI. i entered it based on the titles (so my fourth entry, Stanford, is my 5th ranked)

1) Highland: the hype is real. bay area needs no endorsement. pt population that i want to work with. mostly county with good balance of university and community rotations. great culture with super cool and driven residents; most hippy/idealistic program. super competitive though, so i'm already mentally prepping to not get this on match day.

2) University of Chicago: maybe the "coolest" program i interviewed at. chicago is incredible and maybe>bay area (i don't care if i have to wear a jacket sometimes). pt population is largely underserved despite being at a university hospital. university home with a decent amount of time split between community and more of a true county hosp. culture seems young, diverse, and fresh. lots of academic opportunities, esp global health. other positives- 3yr, flight, enormous alumni network.

3) UCSF: SF proper is wondrous. pt population underserved esp at the county site but also at university site a little bit. essentially 50/50 split between university and county, which is a pretty good ratio in my view. also great culture with super laid back residents. great academic opportunities. unclear why this is 3 and not 2; call it gut.

4) Northwestern: downtown chicago. pt population not very underserved, but it's definitely not 100% affluence that comes through here either. decent mix of sites but mostly university. had a good time at the social; residents were pretty great as were the faculty, PD, and the chair; everyone was hungry to make systemic changes, it was cool.

5) Stanford: (hopefully you see the geographic pattern here) while palo alto is in the bay, it's just not quite the same feel as SF/Oakland. decent mix of pt populations and settings. had a some good faculty interactions and the whole program seems really progressive in general.

6) Emory–was a great fit overall with what i wanted and had some cool residents, just didn't want to be in Atlanta.

7) USC was incredible and def the most badass program i looked at. if i had an actual tie to the city this would be way higher.

8) UCLA Olive View–also great, good mix of settings and chill residents. LA + driving were the only turn offs.

9) Advocate Christ–seems like a great place to train and most people I ran into on the trail loved this place. I didn't mesh w the faculty super well and felt like I might want some more academia in my life.

 

[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Location was not important for me. I'm lucky in the sense that I'm not restricted by family. The biggest priority was going to place with VERY high acuity patients where EM gets dibs on procedures and extremely strong critical care emphasis with excellent trauma volume.

1) WashU in St. Louis/Barnes Jewish: I'm only going to really comment on this program because it was my first choice and there aren't many reviews on WashU in this thread.

Not sure what it is, but I feel like this program doesn't get the hype it deserves. Maybe people don't want to live in St. Louis or maybe they don't like 4 year programs. But this program was easily hands down my top choice and the best fit for me.

Very very high acuity, high trauma volume (lots of penetrating, North St. Louis very violent area) with EM residents very involved in all trauma activations, owns airway, TONS of procedural experience in terms of lines and chest tubes (senior residents have done so many so they give them away to interns and R2's), switch trauma lead with surgery on odd/even days. Strong critical care emphasis with outstanding fellowship. Outstanding peds exposure, scattered peds shift throughout curriculum, St. Louis Childrens is fantastic level 1 pediatric trauma center. PD Jason Wagner one of the most awesome people I've met in the field, an innovator at the forefront of medical education, has a goal to make the future leaders of the field who are going to make a dent in the world of EM. Loved the facilities, Barnes Jewish is safety net hospital for St. Louis (no county hospital in STL), get academic backbone and resources of WashU with all the acuity and pathology of a very deserving county patient population. Amazing ancillary support. Residents were all universally amazing, several gave me their personal numbers after interview day to call them and talked with me extensively. 1/3 go into academics (straight out of residency without any fellowship), 1/3 fellowship, 1/3 community

Cons: None of my mentors were really excited when I told them I was ranking this program first. While WashU as an institution is world renown, I don't think WashU EM has the name recognition that say Denver or Cincy have. This may be an issue for some people. In spite of this, I would argue that the quality of training here is "top tier" and this program is on it's way to becoming a powerhouse in the field (arguably already is). Other cons include: STL as a city probably doesn't offer as much as NY, the Bay Area or other big midwestern cities like Chicago. I personally still think it's very affordable and a great place to raise a family. Forest Park is in your backyard. Lots of other cool things to do in STL, but I get why it doesn't have the appeal as a place like Boston or Chicago or somewhere like that. Another con is the medicine floor month.

In short, I was blown away by this program and when I got to WashU I knew it was the best kept secret in EM. Would be honored to match at this program.

2) Henry Ford

3) Cincy

4) Denver Health

5) Carolinas

 

[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: DO student. Applied to 10 AOA and 20 ACGME programs in Ohio, Michigan, New York, New Jersey, California, Florida and Arizona. Went to a few AOA interviews but later opted out from the match. COMLEX 1 620s, COMLEX 2 630s, USMLE 2 250s. Did not take the USMLE 1 because I was not planning on applying to ACGME programs during 3rd year. 10 AOA invites and went to 4 of them. 12 ACGME invites and went to all 12. ROL is based on Geographic> Happy Residents > Prestige > Second looks (x9 programs). 3 SLOEs - 2 from AOA programs and 1 from ACGME program.

1) Stony Brook Sunny

2) Beth Israel (NYC)

3) Jacobi/Montefiore

4) JMH/UM, FL

5) Florida Hospital, FL

6 and Beyond: Kendall, Wright State, Akron Gen, UTMC, Saginaw, OSU and St. V. (i don't remember the exact order in the tail end).

 

[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: fit, location, academics, flight, global in roughly that order

1) U Washington -- amazing program at a very academic county setting, in the PNW

2) Stanford -- academic program, resources, excited for 4 year. CON: location's CoL

3) U Chicago -- academic, friendly, flight (that's not 24 hour shift). Con: weather

4) BIDMC -- academic, friendly, location. Con: weather, east coast location

5) OHSU -- very solid, friendly program, academic. Con: limited electives, no flight

 

[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Reputation of the program, quality of training and temperate/location.

1) UCSF Fresno

2) Washington University

3) UCLA olive view

4) UT San Antonio

5) Kansas University

 

[sawboned]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: location, fit >> salary, benefits, reputation, rotations, shifts, moonlighting, etc. Would be happy to match anywhere but especially top 6 or 7. These are the top 5 in ***alphabetical*** order.

Dartmouth: (+) emphasis on on-shift teaching, strong in rural/wilderness/EMS/flight, nice facilities, residents seemed happy, location (White Mountains, Green Mountains, maybe a few other colors too), trauma in Baltimore, 18-19(?) 9hr shifts (+/-) small class size, lower volume (30-35k) and acuity but decent patient/resident ratio (-) 6 months off-site, less moonlighting.

Indiana: (+) high volume and acuity (rotate at the only three level 1 trauma centers in the state), strong reputation, roughly 20/18/17 9hr shifts with circadian scheduling, strong peds, lots of ICU time, good benefits, moonlighting opportunities (6 hour fast track shifts at $80/hr, or external moonlighting at $150+/hr), specialty tracks, work Colts games (+/-) large class size (-) multiple sites with different EMR's, no mountains, no flight.

Nevada: (+) high volume, high acuity, lots of procedures, dedicated trauma shifts, ethnic diversity, wilderness and event medicine opportunities (Burning Man, EDC, etc.), solid in peds, tox in Denver, lots of ICU time, good benefits and no state income tax, location (Red Rock, Lake Mead, Charleston Peak, Death Valley, Zion, Grand Canyon, Sierras, etc.), residents seemed like my kind of people (+/-) 18/17/16 12hr shifts (-) hot summers, moonlighting PGY3 only, heard the EMR isn't great (plans to upgrade in next year or so).

Wright State: (+) multiple unique sites (urban under-served, urban academic, suburban, Childrens, Air Force base), different sites all use EPIC EMR, moonlighting, 18/18/18 9hr shifts, lots of ICU and ED time (+/-) large class size (-) multiple training sites might be disorienting, no mountains.

West Virginia: (+) rural/wilderness/EMS/flight, scribes PGY2-3, extra 5 days vacation on either Thanksgiving or Christmas, decent outdoors options (hiking, rafting, skiing etc.), month at 8-bed community ED seems unique (+/-) lots of off-service time PGY1, but rotations seem well thought out, 20/19/18 10hr shifts per calendar month, lower volume around 50-55k and similar patient/resident ratio as Dartmouth (-) less penetrating trauma, college town.

Curious - Indi - no flight?



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[alpinism]

Curious - Indi - no flight?



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

AFAIK they stopped their flight program back in the mid 2000s after a string of high profile medical helicopter crashes.

 

[HumerusBaker]

So I loved UWashington.... but I was super concerned about how residents are unionizing there and seem to have cost of living/wage issues. Can anyone comment on this? I think it is important to consider for the people next year (too late for us ! Haha) for example I was told people pay 10% of salary towards parking. Also that it would be near impossible to live alone on the salary.
This was honestly what took it from top 4 to lower for me. I think it 10 years this will be a program that gets mentioned just as much as Denver and Cinci etc.

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: fit, location, academics, flight, global in roughly that order

1) U Washington -- amazing program at a very academic county setting, in the PNW

2) Stanford -- academic program, resources, excited for 4 year. CON: location's CoL

3) U Chicago -- academic, friendly, flight (that's not 24 hour shift). Con: weather

4) BIDMC -- academic, friendly, location. Con: weather, east coast location

5) OHSU -- very solid, friendly program, academic. Con: limited electives, no flight

 

[Cinematographer]

Genuine question: What's so great about flight (as an EM resident)? I was personally never impressed nor excited by it even at programs at which it is considered a major "selling point." I'm surprised to find out that many (on SDN, at least) used the presence/absence of flight as a consideration to make rank lists.

 

[Dilaudid PRN]

Whoa whoa whoa, you prefer a 4 year program???

Not this shït again.

 

[deleted547339]

Not this shït again.

Lol.

I just always thought people just begrudgingly accepted 4 year programs either because of 1) Location preference, 2) Wanting to go into academics with no desire for a fellowship or 3) total obsession with a program that happens to be 4 years. I didn't realize there are actually people who WANTED to do a 4 year program. That actually blows my mind. I'm not saying it's crazy to do a 4 year program....if you want to be in LA and decided that going to USC-LAC is the best place to do it or you are dead set on being in NYC and just realizing a lot of the good programs are 4 years, no problem. I just didn't think any med stud was thinking "Man, I'd really love to do an extra year of training!"

 

[deleted720339]

Genuine question: What's so great about flight (as an EM resident)? I was personally never impressed nor excited by it even at programs at which it is considered a major "selling point." I'm surprised to find out that many (on SDN, at least) used the presence/absence of flight as a consideration to make rank lists.

Can't agree more. Interestingly, during the interview day, the PD at Fresno said he discourages his residents from going on flights after one of the helicopters crashed a few years back.

 

[Petypet]

Genuine question: What's so great about flight (as an EM resident)? I was personally never impressed nor excited by it even at programs at which it is considered a major "selling point." I'm surprised to find out that many (on SDN, at least) used the presence/absence of flight as a consideration to make rank lists.

Having rotated at a flight program place, and gone on several flights, it is fun. You are first responder, and when they are scene runs via helicopter you really gain a sense of confidence in your skills. Also some programs allow flight moonlighting, and for those students interested in EMS and prehospital research, flight is a good experience.

 

[sawboned]

Genuine question: What's so great about flight (as an EM resident)? I was personally never impressed nor excited by it even at programs at which it is considered a major "selling point." I'm surprised to find out that many (on SDN, at least) used the presence/absence of flight as a consideration to make rank lists.

Certainly personal preference. I came from a prehospital background so it was a must for me at the time. I can recall several of my toughest airways ever on air medical missions. That said, I can also attest to the same number of near fatal experiences. Probably a wash.


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[medicsb]

For me, my paramedic experience swayed me AWAY from any place that required flight work. Nope. Not a chance. Too much risk and not enough gain, generally. But, not all programs are run the same, so I don't doubt you can fly safely and see great learning cases as a resident. I couldn't reliably identify those good places. Many of the bad, horrible EMS practices and flight practices are carried out by programs with academic EM support.

To this day, some of the craziest cases and most fulfilling resuscitations (not necessarily codes) I have ever worked have been as a paramedic. Without a doubt, doing EMS as a resident can provide you with challenges you'll never encounter in an ED. And you can be pushed to provide care independently that you would not in an ED or ICU. But, flight services are generally slow and they fly plenty of crap that shouldn't be flown. Ground EMS is so diluted with BS that it can be hard to get good learning unless you're only being sent to actual sick patients. In general, I'd say do not put much stock in flight or ground EMS unless you're allowed to self dispatch like Pittsburgh residents can do on the ground, or if the flight service is actually busy, and the ground services don't use flight to keep themselves from driving out of their jurisdiction.

 

[EMDO2016]

So I loved UWashington.... but I was super concerned about how residents are unionizing there and seem to have cost of living/wage issues. Can anyone comment on this? I think it is important to consider for the people next year (too late for us ! Haha) for example I was told people pay 10% of salary towards parking. Also that it would be near impossible to live alone on the salary.
This was honestly what took it from top 4 to lower for me. I think it 10 years this will be a program that gets mentioned just as much as Denver and Cinci etc.

I was wondering why you're concerned about residents being unionized? Is it a bad thing?

 

[nejadm]

Lol you can't be serious.
And yes I know where UCI Medical Center is located.

From US Census Data:
Orange has a median household income of $78,000 and only 11.8% of the population lives below the poverty line.
Anaheim and Garden Grove both have median household incomes of $59,000 and only around 15% of their population lives below the poverty line.
Santa Ana is the only city that even comes remotely close to being underserved but its still mostly a middle class city.

For comparison:
East Los Angeles: $38,000 and 27%
El Monte: $40,000 and 24%
Compton: $42,000 and 26%
Inglewood: $43,000 and 22%

Orange is only "underserved" if you're comparing it to Laguna Beach or Beverly Hills.

I am dead serious. The statistics are so skewed in these areas because of so many undocumented citizens and their families. To say that GG, Anaheim and Orange are above-middle class is a huge stretch.

 

[HumerusBaker]

I was wondering why you're concerned about residents being unionized? Is it a bad thing?

I don't care that they're unionized. I care about what led to that/residents feeling like that can't live on the wages they're paid and that things like parking are 10% of their salary (I was told. I haven't done tons of research into this). On my interview day, residents definitely felt that living alone would be darn near impossible on their salary (I am way too old to have roommates and I'm single). Childcare I believe is another issue (I didn't pay much attention because I don't have kids but if people do...). I know part of the issue for maybe non EM is that they have to live within a city call radius which means living in pricier neighborhoods like Capitol Hill.

I absolutely love Seattle as a city and really liked the program, but if I'm moving to a new city I want to live somewhere without a random roommate, that's safe and nice and affordable and a reasonable commute. I had major concerns I wouldn't be able to do that. Plus if I'm moving across the country I need to be able to afford flights to see my family occasionally. I think UW ended up at 7 or 8 on my RoL and I know I'd be super happy to train there and live in Seattle. I just would be afraid I couldn't afford to live there.

Tldr; don't care they're union, worried about why they feel they have to fight for things like free parking ie do they get paid a fair liveable wage in a not so cheap city

 

[kcm1984]

Main Considerations: Location (southeast), fit/people, shift length, curriculum (more ED/ICU, less fluff), clinical focus > academic, quality and proximity of public schools

1. Wake Forest – Pros: Location perfect for me. Clicked with the people. Lots of outdoorsy stuff to do. Winston great town for young family (good schools, easy commute). Can live in nice area for cheap. All 8 hour shifts. Tons of time in the ED. No floor months. Very logical curriculum. Fairly large residency class, so easy to switch shifts when needed. Top notch PD, very professional. Overall a great work/life balance, residents seemed to be really happy. Residency has a great reputation for producing clinically strong docs. Cons: none for me.

2. Duke – Pros: I did an away here and had a great rotation. PD is phenomenal and planning to be here for a long time. Recently switched to 8 hour shifts (except weekends). Curriculum pretty good, about middle of the pack in terms of months in ED. Residents were really nice. Young, energetic faculty. Great schools (would live in Chapel Hill). Cons: Perceived problems with program. After rotating there and talking with many people in the know, their recent troubles didn’t really have a significant impact on residents. They are definitely on the upswing. Also, residents were getting great jobs early on in PGY-3 year. Floor month. Division of surgery, but again minimal impact on residents (they have just started allowing a type of internal moonlighting). Being part of Duke, fairly large academic focus.

3. Palmetto Health – Pros: Great PD. Tons of time in ED (74% of residency – most I’ve seen). Community-based program. Residents seem to really like it. Great reputation. Great faculty, also really happy. Cons: Columbia (harder to find great schools close to hospital, super hot, super South). 12 hour shifts (about 40-50% end up being 12 hours). Although they do have a neat hour bank structure (ensures fairness, also allows for front or back-loading if you have other goals/need additional time off for some reason). Two floor months.

4. MUSC – Pros: Charleston. Charleston. Charleston. Seems like decent program, fair amount of time in ED (middle of pack). 9 hour shifts (although resident said they work a mis of 8, 10, and 12). Would love to live in Charleston again. Good schools in Mt. P and James Island. Nice residents. Cons: Smaller, newer program. Still working out kinks with community ED months (will likely be in Beaufort which would be a bit of a trek).

5. Virginia Commonwealth – Pros: Maybe my favorite interview day and definitely my big “surprise” program. Great PD. Richmond seemed like a really cool place. Residents seemed really happy and welcoming. Mostly 10 hour shifts. Lots of outdoorsy stuff to do. Cons: More difficult to find good schools close to hospital. A bit further from family than I prefer. Lots of floor months. Lower end of time in ED (61.5%).

6. Medical College of Georgia – Pros: Also a surprise like for me. Lots of outdoorsy things around Augusta (read: great mtb trails). Decent amount of time in ED. Lots of unique opportunities (event and tactical medicine). Flexibility to pursue other interests. Good moonlighting. Clicked with faculty. Cons: More difficult to find great schools close to hospital. Seems like some rotations are still being ironed out. Less reputable program.

7. Virginia Tech Carilion – Pros: Loved the location in the mountains. Pretty good schools. 9+1 hour shifts. Nice residents. Fewer residencies, so more procedures. Cons: The PD and chair rubbed me the wrong way (several folks on trail reported similar experiences). However, one of my mentors speaks highly of them both. Newer program. Several rotations at distant sites (1 month 24 miles away and 3 months 43 miles away). On the lower end of time in ED (61.5%). Floor month. Overall couldn’t get over strange interaction with PD and less time in ED or else I would have ranked much higher.

8. Carolinas – Pros: Great reputation. Great hospital. Obviously producing great clinicians. Community-based program. All rotations at 1 hospital. Cons: Don’t want to live in Charlotte. Difficult to find great schools close to hospital where one can afford to live. Very proud program, not really my cup of tea. Tons of off service rotations. Intern year schedule looks like a repeat of MS3.

9. Eastern Virginia – Pros: Seemed like really nice faculty and residents. I think 8 or 9 hour shifts. Seems like a cool area to live. Cons: The commuting burden was too much for me (regularly driving to several distant sites in a town known for terrible traffic). Must live out of Norfolk to get in good school districts. On the lower end of time in ED (63.8%).

10. UNC – Pros: Well-known program and faculty. Really nice area. Great schools. Residents were nice, but not sure it is the right fit for me. Cons: While the WakeMed experience seems like great clinical experience, driving 35 miles each way for 40%+ of residency is a bit of a deal-breaker. Seems more academic and less clinical. The UNC ED gets a lot of weird stuff and is terribly slow. Shift length varies through training and location, but 11 hour intern shifts.

11. UVA – Just didn’t fit well for me. Seemed like a huge focus on academics here. Tiny ED with fairly low census. Several rotations at very distant sites wouldn’t work well for me. Some rotations still going through changes.

12. UT-Murfreesboro – Really enjoyed my interview, but didn’t realize they were a 1 year-old program. Several rotations in Memphis and Chattanooga (some of their planned rotations in Nashville didn’t work out). Although there are good schools and overall a nice area, the distance from family didn’t work great for me.

Stats: Top tier US MD, AOA, 2 SLOEs (both honors), 237/260, fair amount of EM extracurriculars. Applied to 30 (school’s suggestion), interviewed at 12 based mainly on proximity to family.

Invited, but declined/cancelled: Emory, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Pittsburgh, Georgetown, UAB, Mississippi, UK, UL, Maryland, WVU, USF, UF-Jacksonville, UF, Orlando Health

Not invited: ECU, UT-Chattanooga, Florida Hospital (Orlando)

 

[wonderbread12]

Yay! Glad to hear it. Plus, I think I know who this is... and I am very excited to have this person!

i think you meant well and OP is probably happy but this is probably why people don't or hesitate to post ROLs ...feeding paranoia of being identified. surprised there are faculty who lurk/post here

 

[Cinematographer]

i think you meant well and OP is probably happy but this is probably why people don't or hesitate to post ROLs ...feeding paranoia of being identified. surprised there are faculty who lurk/post here

I was thinking the same when I saw his/her post. As in "that's great this attending is excited to have that applicant, but he/she completely missed the point of the having an anonymous Google Form for rank lists."

 

[exsanguination]

It falls on deaf ears though because RPedigo has been posting on these forums for years under his real name

 

[gutonc]

Tldr; don't care they're union, worried about why they feel they have to fight for things like free parking ie do they get paid a fair liveable wage in a not so cheap city

I don't think I interviewed anywhere that had free parking for house staff (other than perhaps Dartmouth). Every urban program where I interviewed required residents to pay something for parking.

FWIW, it's pretty easy to find out what it costs to park at UW...Max $175/month depending on how you use it (monthly pass or pay-per use). So unless they dropped their annual salary to <$20K, it's not 10% of salary.

 

[deleted547339]

Main Considerations: Location (southeast), fit/people, shift length, curriculum (more ED/ICU, less fluff), clinical focus > academic, quality and proximity of public schools

1. Wake Forest – Pros: Location perfect for me. Clicked with the people. Lots of outdoorsy stuff to do. Winston great town for young family (good schools, easy commute). Can live in nice area for cheap. All 8 hour shifts. Tons of time in the ED. No floor months. Very logical curriculum. Fairly large residency class, so easy to switch shifts when needed. Top notch PD, very professional. Overall a great work/life balance, residents seemed to be really happy. Residency has a great reputation for producing clinically strong docs. Cons: none for me.

2. Duke – Pros: I did an away here and had a great rotation. PD is phenomenal and planning to be here for a long time. Recently switched to 8 hour shifts (except weekends). Curriculum pretty good, about middle of the pack in terms of months in ED. Residents were really nice. Young, energetic faculty. Great schools (would live in Chapel Hill). Cons: Perceived problems with program. After rotating there and talking with many people in the know, their recent troubles didn’t really have a significant impact on residents. They are definitely on the upswing. Also, residents were getting great jobs early on in PGY-3 year. Floor month. Division of surgery, but again minimal impact on residents (they have just started allowing a type of internal moonlighting). Being part of Duke, fairly large academic focus.

3. Palmetto Health – Pros: Great PD. Tons of time in ED (74% of residency – most I’ve seen). Community-based program. Residents seem to really like it. Great reputation. Great faculty, also really happy. Cons: Columbia (harder to find great schools close to hospital, super hot, super South). 12 hour shifts (about 40-50% end up being 12 hours). Although they do have a neat hour bank structure (ensures fairness, also allows for front or back-loading if you have other goals/need additional time off for some reason). Two floor months.

4. MUSC – Pros: Charleston. Charleston. Charleston. Seems like decent program, fair amount of time in ED (middle of pack). 9 hour shifts (although resident said they work a mis of 8, 10, and 12). Would love to live in Charleston again. Good schools in Mt. P and James Island. Nice residents. Cons: Smaller, newer program. Still working out kinks with community ED months (will likely be in Beaufort which would be a bit of a trek).

5. Virginia Commonwealth – Pros: Maybe my favorite interview day and definitely my big “surprise” program. Great PD. Richmond seemed like a really cool place. Residents seemed really happy and welcoming. Mostly 10 hour shifts. Lots of outdoorsy stuff to do. Cons: More difficult to find good schools close to hospital. A bit further from family than I prefer. Lots of floor months. Lower end of time in ED (61.5%).

6. Medical College of Georgia – Pros: Also a surprise like for me. Lots of outdoorsy things around Augusta (read: great mtb trails). Decent amount of time in ED. Lots of unique opportunities (event and tactical medicine). Flexibility to pursue other interests. Good moonlighting. Clicked with faculty. Cons: More difficult to find great schools close to hospital. Seems like some rotations are still being ironed out. Less reputable program.

7. Virginia Tech Carilion – Pros: Loved the location in the mountains. Pretty good schools. 9+1 hour shifts. Nice residents. Fewer residencies, so more procedures. Cons: The PD and chair rubbed me the wrong way (several folks on trail reported similar experiences). However, one of my mentors speaks highly of them both. Newer program. Several rotations at distant sites (1 month 24 miles away and 3 months 43 miles away). On the lower end of time in ED (61.5%). Floor month. Overall couldn’t get over strange interaction with PD and less time in ED or else I would have ranked much higher.

8. Carolinas – Pros: Great reputation. Great hospital. Obviously producing great clinicians. Community-based program. All rotations at 1 hospital. Cons: Don’t want to live in Charlotte. Difficult to find great schools close to hospital where one can afford to live. Very proud program, not really my cup of tea. Tons of off service rotations. Intern year schedule looks like a repeat of MS3.

9. Eastern Virginia – Pros: Seemed like really nice faculty and residents. I think 8 or 9 hour shifts. Seems like a cool area to live. Cons: The commuting burden was too much for me (regularly driving to several distant sites in a town known for terrible traffic). Must live out of Norfolk to get in good school districts. On the lower end of time in ED (63.8%).

10. UNC – Pros: Well-known program and faculty. Really nice area. Great schools. Residents were nice, but not sure it is the right fit for me. Cons: While the WakeMed experience seems like great clinical experience, driving 35 miles each way for 40%+ of residency is a bit of a deal-breaker. Seems more academic and less clinical. The UNC ED gets a lot of weird stuff and is terribly slow. Shift length varies through training and location, but 11 hour intern shifts.

11. UVA – Just didn’t fit well for me. Seemed like a huge focus on academics here. Tiny ED with fairly low census. Several rotations at very distant sites wouldn’t work well for me. Some rotations still going through changes.

12. UT-Murfreesboro – Really enjoyed my interview, but didn’t realize they were a 1 year-old program. Several rotations in Memphis and Chattanooga (some of their planned rotations in Nashville didn’t work out). Although there are good schools and overall a nice area, the distance from family didn’t work great for me.

Stats: Top tier US MD, AOA, 2 SLOEs (both honors), 237/260, fair amount of EM extracurriculars. Applied to 30 (school’s suggestion), interviewed at 12 based mainly on proximity to family.

Invited, but declined/cancelled: Emory, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Pittsburgh, Georgetown, UAB, Mississippi, UK, UL, Maryland, WVU, USF, UF-Jacksonville, UF, Orlando Health

Not invited: ECU, UT-Chattanooga, Florida Hospital (Orlando)

Interesting list; also interesting to see the programs you decided to decline interviews.

 

[kcm1984]

I agree! The location (proximity to family) was top priority, so canceling some of the programs more distant from North Carolina was easy. I scheduled almost all of my interviews early and in a four week period. Some of the bigger name programs came later, at which point there was virtually nothing that could change my top three. Plus I was pretty much done after 10 or 12 interviews, and I think I'd be happy anywhere I interviewed.


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[Cinematographer]

Submitted via Google Forms

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Fit: mainly based on interactions with residents at pre-interview socials and second-looks.Location: preference for places where SO can study/work (mainly big cities), as well as where we will enjoy our (limited) time off, good quality of life.

1) UCSD: Felt I really fit in with the residents, great bunch of people who love surfing, spending time outside, and enjoying life outside of work. Same as the attendings. My kind of people, really felt the magic. Liked the interaction between residents and attendings, saw some great teaching happening. Location (beaches/sunshine/lifestyle) made up for the fact that it's a four year program and the less than ideal trauma exposure (run by surgery in trauma bay on second floor). Awesome flight program.

2) NSLIJ-North Shore Univ: Good vibe from residents folks from NY/LI and beyond. Great interaction between residents and attendings. Location (commutable to NYC) is good for SO.

3) UT Houston: Again, good vibes, felt like a good fit with residents, who come from all over the place. Trauma experience can't be beat. Global health experience fully funded by program. PD Luber is awesome. Houston is an approved location by SO.

4) Baylor: Did not get as good a vibe on interview day, felt not as good of fit as above places. Still, residents were really nice, good interaction with attendings, lots of autonomy. Strong on academics, nice global health opportunities. Fact that it is county I could take or leave, didn't impact rank. Houston is an approved location by SO.

5) NSLIJ-Long Island Jewish: Would have been lower on my list if not for SO. 4 year program. Residents generally seemed unhappy, which was a new experience for me on the trail. Most of the residents are from the NYC/LI area, didn't seem like they hung out together very much. Location (commutable to NYC) kept it in top 5. EMS fellowship here is a plus.

Honorable mention - University of Kentucky: SO used veto power d/t location, otherwise this is a great program and would have been much higher on my list. Good fit with residents, who are a very outdoorsy and active bunch who get along well. Great attending-resident interaction. PD Doty is awesome.

Honestly, I will be happy with any place on my list!

 

[Swingman]

*crickets*