[2016-2017] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by doggydog, Aug 12, 2016.

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  1. supinationpronation

    supinationpronation

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    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
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  3. SpacemanSpifff

    SpacemanSpifff 2+ Year Member

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    Guys and gals, I don't mean to sound insensitive, but what is the purpose of questions like this? Is it going to help your anxiety to hear that no one on SDN has heard back? Does that really change anything?
    Rank lists are due next week. The part of this process that we had any control over is done. Please, go work out, go drink, go do something, anything, other than speculate about what emails (or lack there of) from programs mean. Things will work out just fine.
     
  4. DocBeardface

    DocBeardface 2+ Year Member

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    Moving a conversation from ROL thread to here..

    Why not a similar system for interviews as we do for match? We make a list in order of where we would like to interview, the programs make lists of who they want to interview, and then you get "matched" to a designated number of interviews, i.e. 12-15. In this system, people get the interviews they really care about and programs get people who want to be there...

    The snag is couples match and I haven't come up with a solution for that yet..
     
  5. tux4

    tux4

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    But then what if people cancel interviews? Hold a second match? The interview process is too dynamic to control like this.


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  6. SeparationAnxiety

    SeparationAnxiety

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    That makes sense but I don't see any significant changes coming down the pipe until we start seeing more than 1-2 unfilled EM slots per year. Maybe with all the new programs that will be sooner rather than later. All the PDs talk about how they are dynamic agents of change, but the reality is they are administrators and most won't take risks unless a metric they answer for is threatened. Applicant stress or system fairness aren't one of those metrics.


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  7. DocBeardface

    DocBeardface 2+ Year Member

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    Then it just automatically goes to the next person on the list, they can accept or reject and continue in that way until someone takes it.
     
  8. SamtheWise

    SamtheWise

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    I think a better way to do it would be for it to be all controlled through interview broker. You have 12-15 interview spots and can fill them up as invites come in. If an interview you want comes later in the season, but you're filled up at 15, you can cancel one of your remaining interviews (as long as it's not within 2 weeks or something) and use that spot to accept the new interview. It's an imperfect system, but I think it's feasible with the resources already in place, and most importantly, it keeps the programs from collaborating on who they offer interview spots.

    If programs don't want to participate in the interview broker system, then they can still do it through ERAS or emails to coordinators, but then they have no excuse to complain about everyone canceling their interviews last minute, or whatever.
     
  9. SamtheWise

    SamtheWise

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    The other thing that needs to happen is that students need better advising. Every student is different, and top students need to be told that it's OK to not apply to 30+ programs because they're just going to be at best jamming up the system and at worst holding on to interviews they have no intention of attending simply because the invite came early in the season and they haven't hit their magic number of invites yet.

    I think the ideal system is one in which all students applying EM receive high quality advising coupled with an interview scheduling system that physically limits the number of interviews it's possible to hold. The carrot and the stick, if you will.

    Other items on my wishlist (less realistic): ban post interview communications, ban second looks, and publish a blacklist of programs that inflate SLOE grades
     
  10. mega_colon

    mega_colon 2+ Year Member

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    The problem I anticipate with this is that advisors wont knows applicant competitiveness until SLOEs are posted, which is usually after ERAS opens. Poor SLOEs can make a 250+ x2 candidate not competitive.
     
  11. EMedGrrl

    EMedGrrl 10+ Year Member

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    You are presuming that students would listen to and follow this high quality advising. That is a faulty assumption.
     
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  12. jessk2015

    jessk2015

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    Guys, Match Day is in two weeks! OMGzzz. I don't know if I'll be happy or sad, but I plan on gorging myself on pizza after either way. (I've been abstaining from pizza lately, it's very sad).


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  13. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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    I concur, that is very sad.


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  14. LostinLift

    LostinLift 2+ Year Member

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    Quick question about your aways on VSAS... how long did it take for your home school to verify for your application? I submitted mine on the first day within minutes, but it took them 3 days to verify and send it. Did anyone find that to be a problem for them in securing aways? Not that you would necessarily know if it mattered, but did you feel like that was a factor?
     
  15. Babycatsinabag

    Babycatsinabag

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    Not an issue, it's the same for all schools/applicants.
     
  16. dadaddadaBATMAN

    dadaddadaBATMAN 2+ Year Member

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    Umbrella pulled out
    I too am moved by your lack of pizza. This is an item of much concern. You must fix your pizza deficit, lest the existential dread set in.

    May your future be filled with many pizzas, and with much cheese.

    Good luck in the match everyone
     
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  17. EastCoastEMApplicant17

    EastCoastEMApplicant17

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    Sad!

    I'm going to the local diner near the medical school after the match day celebration. Nothing like a good meal at the restaurant that is most associated with the city you're leaving
     
  18. rcheech7

    rcheech7 MS-IV 7+ Year Member

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    Time is literally standing still until Monday it seems bros


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  19. EMPertinent

    EMPertinent

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    Longest. Week. Ever. The existential dread is real.
     
  20. Whiteshoes

    Whiteshoes Member 7+ Year Member

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    Saw this post in the Rank thread but posted my question here since I didn't wanna clutter that thread..

    Is an IMG who applied to 100+ programs w/ 11 interviews/ranks statistically in a better spot than a US MD/DO who applied 35 & got 5 interviews/ranks? Just curious
     
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  21. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    IMG with 11 interviews is quite a strong swimmer. US MD with 5 interviews on 35 apps? That person has a BIG red flag somewhere. US DO? Middle ground. 5/35 for DO could indicate poor choice of where to apply.

    So, my opinion? The IMG is in the high seat.
     
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  22. JBOB

    JBOB 2+ Year Member

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    Does the ratio of apps/interviews really matter at this point? I would think that the number of interviews attended is really all that matters in terms of chances of matching.
     
  23. Dr.McNinja

    Dr.McNinja Nobel War Prize Winner SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Yeah, but the IMG is also a narwhal. Not quite a unicorn, but close, and nobody believes you when you see it.
     
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  24. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    But the reason why the certain person got how many or few interviews is the key. The AMG with 5/35 has a red flag, and that would suggest they're not going to be at the top of the rank list of those places where he DID interview. If you are a US MD candidate, you apply, you get interviews, unless there's a flag.
     
  25. rkmoto121

    rkmoto121 7+ Year Member

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    My school has been verifying same day if I submit an app in the morning or the following morning if I submit at night. Idk if this will really make a difference though.


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  26. Lexdiamondz

    Lexdiamondz 5+ Year Member

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    Agreed. A US-MD who is only getting interviews from 15% of the places they applied to has at least one red flag, whether that be board scores below most school's threshold, a failure, disciplinary action or a really bad SLOE.
     
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  27. SeparationAnxiety

    SeparationAnxiety

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    Or they were just an average applicant that made some bad decisions regarding region targeted or reaches vs safety programs.


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  28. JBOB

    JBOB 2+ Year Member

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    Agreed, but I would argue that an applicant with 11 interviews who applied to >100 programs has about the same chance of matching as someone with 11 interviews who applied to 30 programs.
     
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  29. Dr.McNinja

    Dr.McNinja Nobel War Prize Winner SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Not necessarily. It doesn't really work that way.
     
  30. JBOB

    JBOB 2+ Year Member

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    upload_2017-3-9_14-3-7.png



    Why do you say that? Looking at the above, it would seem that after a certain point (ie, >13 or so interviews), everyone matches.
     
  31. Dr.McNinja

    Dr.McNinja Nobel War Prize Winner SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Because it doesn't. Who is that 1 with 16 or more contiguous ranks that didn't match?

    Statistically, sure, they have better odds. But that doesn't mean anything to the individual.
     
  32. JBOB

    JBOB 2+ Year Member

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    Okay so how does it work then? Are programs interviewing people they already know are gong to be at the bottom of their rank lists?
     
  33. Lexdiamondz

    Lexdiamondz 5+ Year Member

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    That data is for people who go on interviews, not people with interview invites.

    If your % yield for invites/apps is only 11% that means that for one or more reasons, you're not an ideal candidate in the eyes of the majority of PDs eyes. With the exception of those places you did aways at, you're likely near the middle to bottom of these program's rank lists.


    Basically.


    Remember that nearly everyone who gets >12 invites matches, but there's no qualitative data that differentiates those who applied to 20 programs and went on 12 interviews, and those who applied to 100 for the same number.
     
  34. Lexdiamondz

    Lexdiamondz 5+ Year Member

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    I mean, while there are alot of EM programs, there aren't so many that you can apply to 35 and only get 5 interviews as a US applicant. You have to really be foolhardy with your choice of programs to end up with only 5 interviews, I mean literally trying not to match.
     
  35. Dr.McNinja

    Dr.McNinja Nobel War Prize Winner SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Well, they know that half of them will be in the bottom half of their lists. And yet they still interview them.
    The point that seems to be escaping your gravity is that the number of interviews correlates pretty well with a test score/grade/SLOE matrix. But people can still shoot themselves in the foot. And if the interviews are offered before some red flag pops up (late letter, failed step II, etc), then the number in and of itself means nothing.
    So while you can argue that for a group of people, those going on 12 or more interviews have a better chance than those going on 5 in matching. Sure. But population statistics don't apply to the person.
     
  36. JBOB

    JBOB 2+ Year Member

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    Look, the point I'm making is that if an applicant went on >12 interviews, the chances of them not matching is very low. >600 applicants ranked more than 12 programs last year, only 3 of them went unmatched. The vast vast majority of individuals who don't match did not go on/get enough interviews.
     
  37. Dr.McNinja

    Dr.McNinja Nobel War Prize Winner SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    And the point I'm making is that I went on 12 interviews once and didn't match.
    You can flip a coin 100 times and get 100 heads, but the 101th time the odds are still 50/50 that it's tails.
     
  38. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    My suspicion is, those 3 that ranked 12+ programs and didn't match had a major personality flaw. Looked good on paper, so they secured a bunch of interviews, but then interviewed poorly. I mean, its just a suspicion, but otherwise, but it would make a ton of sense how someone could secure a decent number of interviews, yet be so lowly ranked on everyones match list that they didn't match anywhere.

    I mean statistically, it can still happen. 12 isn't a magic number. But still, it is extraordinarily rare. But I get it, it stinks if it happens to you as McNinja points out.
     
  39. Dr.McNinja

    Dr.McNinja Nobel War Prize Winner SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Pretty much this.
    Although there might be other things than personality flaws that hold them back. In my case it was a SLOE that dropped after I got my first 12 interviews. No more invites offered. It was a hand grenade in my file.
     
  40. jessk2015

    jessk2015

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    This particular back and forth is making me very nervous for Monday.


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  41. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    But weren't you couples matching, too?
     
  42. Dr.McNinja

    Dr.McNinja Nobel War Prize Winner SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Yep
     
  43. BoardingDoc

    BoardingDoc Don't worry. I've got my towel. 7+ Year Member

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    Well now I want to know the Dr. McNinja application saga.
     
  44. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    I think it's all covered by those two posts.
     
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  45. Dr.McNinja

    Dr.McNinja Nobel War Prize Winner SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    And AFAIK it's still available in the archives. I don't think I deleted anything.
     
  46. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Yeah, it is.
     
  47. savemyprecious

    savemyprecious

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    We're here, watching waiting.
     
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  48. EMGui2017

    EMGui2017

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    Commiserating?
     
  49. KinesiologyNerd

    KinesiologyNerd 2+ Year Member

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    Say it ain't so
     
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  50. BoardingDoc

    BoardingDoc Don't worry. I've got my towel. 7+ Year Member

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    So it is.
     

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