[2016-2017] Emergency Medicine Rank Order List Thread

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by doggydog, Dec 26, 2016.

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  1. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    People are calling for it, so here it is. Don't feel the need to post ASAP, I just had some time to make the thread today so here it is.

    Per SDN tradition, here is this year's Rank Order List (ROL) thread. There are a number of ways in which you may participate:
    1. By using your SDN account and directly replying to this thread
    2. By using your SDN account to private message (PM) @doggydog . Your ROL will be posted anonymously
    3. By using the anonymous Google Form created for this thread. No SDN or email account required.

    Format:
    • I want this to be done a bit differently this year, it is extremely evident that EM applicants have a tough time gauging how competitive they are for this specialty. I want to make the attempt to make this process more clear by using this thread to show applicants in the future how competitive they may be for getting interviews at certain programs/getting interviews in general. This can be done by this year's applicants providing as much information about themselves as they are willing. I would like approximate STEP scores, EM rotation grades, AOA status, etc. If you don't feel comfortable providing that information, it's fine, just provide as much info as you can. If you don't want to provide too much information until match day, you can always send the information to me and I'll edit the post or you can quote the post and add it yourself.
    • Include a description of your thinking process/priorities you considered to create your rank order list (i.e., 3- vs. 4-year program, community vs. county, location, reputation, residents/faculty, work hours, etc.). This is tremendously important for future applicants as they are trying to determine which programs they are applying to
    • List the programs you are ranking in their respective numerical order, providing a brief summary of cons/pros you considered for each

    Best of luck to everyone!
    __________________________
    Helpful Links:
    Anonymous Google Form
    2015 - 2016 ROL thread: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2015-2016-em-rank-order-list-thread.1179297/

    Let me know if the google form doesn't work for anyone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
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  3. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    This is the ideal submission I am looking for:

     
  4. Frazier

    Frazier turtle in a rabbit race Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    Beautiful.
     
  5. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 245, Step 2: 260
    EM rotations: HP/HP/H
    Medical school region: Midwest
    AOA
    Miscellaneous: Wish I decided on EM earlier; wish I did better on shelf exams.

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Perceived training strength (sick diverse pts, no BS services), people, location, 3yr > 4yr

    1) MetroHealth - Huge surprise for me. Walked out of interview with a fuzzy feeling. Pros: Great variety of pts including really sick ones; tough shifts that work you hard; tons of procedures; residents given lots of autonomy; good mix of academic + county; loved the attendings and residents I interacted with; Cleveland is actually fun (hung out there a couple days and explored). Cons: 12-hour shifts.

    2) U Michigan - I rotated here. Pros: Traditionally strong teaching environment; kick-ass attendings who are also down-to-earth; tons of research opportunties (highest NIH funding in USA); flight program; awesome mix of academic + county + community with weird tertiary referrals at UofM and sickest s*** at Flint. Cons: 4yr program (would've been top choice if it's 3yr).

    3) York Hospital - Another big surprise. Pros: Busy, busy ED with strong presence in hospital; residents get to do A LOT (maybe due to the strong leadership); large component of "rural" population; excellent interaction b/w docs and ancillary staff; very, very chill residents; York is an interesting city. Cons: Pt diversity a bit limited.

    4) Sparrow - Pros: Sick pts; fast pace with lots of trauma (and good relationship with trauma service); tons of procedures; very nice ED with lots of capacity; residents are so easy-going they made me feel like I was already one of their colleagues. Cons: Lansing is not the best city, but livable I guess.

    5) Temple - Pros: Sick, underserved pts who are grateful; no hand-holding; lots of procedures; interesting cut-to-the-chase PD; heard great stories from residents about the s*** they get to do; I like Philly. Cons: Limited diversity.

    6) Mayo - Pros: Interviewers made me feel like home; good mix of pts; get to see weird ass pathologies and super intersting pts from all over the world; Cons: Practice setting rather limited; my gosh MN is cold; residents I met were unfriendly.

    7) Jefferson - Pros: Nice diversity of pts; I like Philly. Cons: Bad interaction b/w ED and some specialties (according to residents); bad nurses (again, per residents).

    8) Beaumont - Pros: Well-established ED with new expansion; nice attendings and residents. Cons: Affluent population; pts not sick enough; low autonomy; not much to do in Royal Oak.

    9) Dartmouth - Pros: They cover a huge catchment area; solid 3yr curriculum with no BS; super cool residents. Cons: Not just middle of nowhere, but a very cold middle of nowhere; would've ranked much higher if not for the location.

    10) Stanford - Personally very disappointed. Wouldn't have burned $600 to fly there if I knew ahead of time. Pros: Lots of opportunities; cool residents; research. Cons: Pts lack diversity, are not very sick, and are generally well-to-do (which even the 3-Hospital system can't compensate for); LOOOONG commute; weak ED at Stanford Hospital; COL through the roof; 4yr program.

    11) UCLA Olive View - Again, disappointed. Pros: Great interaction b/w attendings and residents; strong mission toward the underserved at Olive View; good pt diversity; location is great (but comes with traffic, as do all great locations) Cons: Interviewers were cold which really turned me off; traffic; COL; 4yr program.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  6. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 250s, Step 2: 260s
    EM rotations: H/H
    Medical school region: Northeast
    Miscellaneous: Long standing interest in EM. Many examples of leadership involvement. Strong PS.

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Strong academic programs: Leaning towards 4 year programs as I want time to explore and establish a niche. Location: Want to either stay in the North East or at least be sure the program can place people back into the northeast relatively easy. Also - do not want to train in NYC. Close residents - the type of people who get beer’s after shifts, etc. Strong wellness and mentorship. Prestige

    1) MGH/BWH:
    PROS: Insane amount of opportunities to get involved in just about anything. Resident’s come out with amazing job aspects and are highly sought after. I was really impressed with how down to earth and fun the residents were - a ton of residents came to the night before and people (myself included) stayed very late. The faculty came across as very down-to-earth (and NOT snobby!) and I really appreciated both chairs taking the time to meet every single applicant one-on-one. Resident’s seem like they work very hard clinically, and they really like the variety of patients they see between the two main hospitals, with BWH having the more complex “plugged in” patients and MGH having the more “rugged” population (with that said - still nothing that compares to BMC or a true county population). Just about everyone spoke most highly about time at MGH. Fourth years run the most acute side of the MGH ED and get experience supervising EVERYONE. Integrated peds - and I think they do a good job of seeing using both MGH’s peds ed/PICU where you become more comfortable with the bread and butter and Boston Children’s where you see very rare things but is more fellow-driven. SO and I love Boston!

    CONS: Program takes advantage of two major hospitals, but does not have as big a mission in treating the underserved as BMC. Felt like they compete with BMC for trauma in Boston. Boston Children’s has a very fellow driven culture - during the night before, some of the residents were telling stories about how they really had to tell fellows to get lost to prevent them from taking some of the procedural experience. Potential Con - Didactics don’t really follow a particular schedule and many residents state that they do their own thing to study.

    2) Brown:
    PROS: This is the program that won over my heart, but my SO did not like their Brown interview. This program has everything, so I will just post a few of the more prominent highlights. One of the most awesome PD’s I met of the season - young, energetic, super easy to get along with, and just an all around boss. The resident’s are the greatest people to work with (did an away here). They were always looking out for med students and gave me ton’s of procedures. I always felt like an important part of the team. Fourth years are brilliant and know what is happening with every patient in their Pod and still find time for plenty of mentoring of med students/juniors. Second and third years run the Trauma/Critical care Bay (8+ beds - that seem like they are always full). Brown is a very academic environment however their unique position as THE major hospital for a huge encatchment area (essentially all of RI, parts of SE Mass and E CT) provides the program with a “pseudo-county” feel. Lastly, I will mention that their Peds experience seems very strong as Hasbro, the Level 1 Trauma Peds Hospital, is attached to RIH, and has a much less fellow-driven culture (the fourth years were doing the resuscitations). I love Providence - but it is definitely not for everyone (small New England city, but very close to beaches!). Lastly, they have really innovative and engaging didactics.

    CONS: None. (Location may be a deal breaker for some)

    3) BMC
    PROS: THE county hospital of New England = you get to live in Boston AND still have sick underserved patients and great trauma experience. Best of all, the hospital has the resources to help this population - They are leading the way in public health measures for things like addiction, domestic violence, etc. The EM residency feels like one of the stronger residencies in the hospital (for better or worse), but it felt like the residents truly run the ED (ie, are not simply triage docs for other specialties). Trauma here is run completely by ED. Program has great reputation in EM and grads get good jobs - in fact, I felt like I met someone who trained at BMC at almost every interview. Lastly, I really liked the PD, felt like we got on really well during the interview with and just seemed like a cool person in general. Ped’s experience felt similar to MGH/BWI - bread and butter at BMC (which does see a decent number of kiddos) and very academic, fellow-driven experience of Boston Children’s. Lastly, their ultrasound experience seemed very strong - with many residents having a “tech-like” certification before graduating.

    CONS: While I clicked with the majority of the residents, some of them - not as much, but it is really hard to gauge in 1 day. The patient population seems very demanding and it didn’t seem to balance out with the more “complex, but plugged-in” population - likely due to the presence of some of the other hospitals in Boston. While I really appreciated how transparent the residents were, they mentioned some of their rotations where only as strong as what you put into them (like Ortho, L&D), but after the interview season, this seems pretty universal.

    4) UCSF - SFGH
    Pros: Was not expecting to like this program as much as I did! I only applied to the West Coast ( Bay Area only) because SO forced me to. This program is truly 50% County, 50% Quart. Care Hospital, which comes with great advantages and resources. The county hospital, SFGH, was gorgeous - brand new ED with a lot of bells and whistles. Great adult patient exposure (many immigrants, refugees, homeless, spanish speaking). Residents were very proud of their program and I didn’t meet anyone that I didn’t get along with. Everyone speaks very highly about having the experience to live in SF. One unique thing that I thought was cool was that Bay area programs integrate with each other well and you get to meet the different EM residents from other programs. Great opportunities for collaboration. Academic opportunities seem limitless here as UCSF is (quickly) becoming (if not already) one of the true powerhouses in medicine.

    Cons: Peds exposure is hard to come by in SF (more dogs than kids in the city) - but they make up for it by shipping you to Oakland. Many different rotating sites so you are moved around a bit. They still have some turf battles that need to be won (ex. Anesthesia doing trauma airways ?!?!). I had a great impression of the PD, he came across as really nice and dedicated to the program during the presentation, but I never had the opportunity to meet with him one-on-one, which is pretty important to me. Lastly, SF seems like an amazing place to live, but it is definitely not an easy place to live - and I am not talking just about prices (I am used to expensive east coast cities), the process of finding housing seems horrendous, but the residents do it. Lastly, this program is really far from family - but it feels like such a great fit that I am willing to try something different for four years!

    5) Yale
    Pros: Again, was not expecting to like this one. Academic resources but at the same time, the patient population is very diverse (similar feel to Brown). Expected to pursue a niche of some sort. Residents see everything as far as pathology and trauma. Gorgeous fairly-new ED. They do a lot to stream-line work-flow for residents (example, everyone has their own phone with all the contacts for admitting) to ensure learning is the focus and not scut work. PD is very dedicated to program and is a large reason for many of the programs improvements over the last few years. Peds experience seemed strong - Yale-NH Peds ED is very close and has less of a fellow-driven culture as other academic institutions. The Yale reputation really helps place grads into great and competitive jobs. Tox in NYC. Seemingly strong ultrasound experience.

    Cons: Very regimented didactics (weekly quizzes). New Haven not for everyone.

    6) Northwestern
    Pros: Probably the greatest “sell” of any program on interview day. The PD will give a speech about how 4 yr is the new 3 yr and then talk about how NW does more with 4 years than most other programs. Very ICU heavy (10-11 mo). Great Pediatric exposure (NW is a top 10 peds hospital). Hospital is in the “nice” part of Chicago but still get’s a great trauma exposure as UChicago is not a level 1 trauma center (until 2018). They make use of very strong off-service rotations (trauma at Cook County). ED is gorgeous (although he hospital feels more like a luxury mall than a hospital). PD is very transparent about alumni success, grads get very competitive jobs in great locations in both academics and community. NW did come across as the strongest “academic” program in Chicago (disclaimer - I only interviewed at NW and UoC). Chicago is a great city to live in (at least, so I’ve heard…).

    Cons: I REALLY liked the PD (Gisondi), but he is leaving to Stanford, and there is no replacement yet - and I don’t love the idea of having a PD that I have never met. Program had a couple other uncertainties such as what the trauma situation will look like once UChicago’s trauma center is up and running. Furthermore, some of their rotation sites are far (ie. Gary, Indiana). Program is far from home, but they place many people in the NE so I did not feel worried about opportunities of getting back to the East Coast.

    7) Cincinnati
    Pros: One of the more “classic” powerhouses in EM. This program has produced an insane number of PD’s, chairs, and leaders in the field. The program is very well thought-out with a large emphasis on graduated responsibility. First years get their feet wet, supervised by fourth years. Second years are proceduralists (+ or -) but still run their own 10 bed pod. Third years run the Resusc. bay. Fourth years supervise an entire pod, and teach med students/juniors. Resident’s spoke very highly of their flight program. Fantastic peds experience at Cinci Childrens Hospital (top 3 peds hospital). The program really puts on a strong show for the interviewees - they pay for your hotel, fancy dinner night before, etc. Awesome, cohesive group of residents. Had a bunch of residents reach out to me and it was nice to have that personal touch to the interview.

    Cons: While Cinci is a powerhouse in EM, it did not feel like as big of an academic presence as some of my other interviews. Also, not a big fan of Ohio, although I admittedly thought the city was pretty cool and it feels very up and coming. Not much patient diversity in Cincinnati (very little spanish-speaking patients). PD is stepping down (new PD has been at Cinci for a long time and should be a very smooth transition).

    8) Vanderbilt
    Pros: Awesome academics. I expected it to be a two-man show (Slovis and Wrenn are very well known in the EM world), but I also really liked a lot of the other people that I met such as the new PD and the Ultrasound Director. Note: Wrenn is stepping down as PD, but he will still be keeping all his teaching roles. Faculty felt like a great mixture of distinguished, big-name, gurus and very down-to-earth young attendings. Gorgeous ED and hospital and with huge encatchment area and diverse pathology. Their program is really well thought out for three years and Vanderbilt has a great reputation. Very strong ICU and Peds exposure. Residents were super friendly.

    Cons: Nashville doesn’t seem like a bad city, but I could definitely tell I was in the south - and the post-election vibe didn’t help either. Almost all the residents were from the south and got jobs after in the south, which was a bit worrying for me. The interview day was also unnecessarily draining, consisting of 8 interviews where every single person says “This is really your opportunity to ask questions” - and by the end, I was scraping by to come up with questions. Also, this is a three year program with very little elective time that most residents use as a mini-vacation, therefore, not much dedicated time to pursue a niche.

    Rest of the list:
    UChicago, Highland, BI, Pitt (UPMC), UCONN, UPENN
     
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  7. Frazier

    Frazier turtle in a rabbit race Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    These are phenomenal insights/descriptions so far, gang!
    I encourage all us SDN frequenters to submit.

    Looking forward to mid-January when I can contribute.
     
    PharmD500 and doggydog like this.
  8. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 260, Step 2: 270
    EM rotations: H/H/H
    Medical school region: West Coast (not CA)
    AOA
    Miscellaneous: Presented some EM posters/abstracts at SAEM. Other than that, not a whole lot of extracurriculars.

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Location (prefer city life), strong clinical training, how fun residents were at social events, word-of-mouth reputation from advisors and other applicants

    1) LAC+USC
    Pros: Residents are the biggest badasses of all of the programs I rotated at. Amazing pathology and clinical training. Great didactic education with passionate educators. True knife+gun club. East LA is not that expensive, and you still have access to the fun stuff in LA (albeit with significant traffic). Residents are all laid back, super nice, and fun to be around; felt a strong "gut feeling" connection here.

    Cons: Program has no money, so fewer opportunities for "fun" electives (e.g. international medicine). Mainly rotate at just LAC+USC, so it might be difficult to acclimate oneself to other, more financially robust patient population (for example, no exposure to the Kaiser system). 12-hour shifts (ugh).

    2) Alameda/Highland
    Pros: Bay area is beautiful, and Oakland is way more affordable than SF/Palo Alto. Residents seem very well clinically trained, although I did not rotate here. Lots of crime in the area. Faculty seemed very involved during interview day. Of possibly minor importance, but salary+benefits were the best of any other program. ED runs the show.

    Cons: ED runs the show, so possibly weaker off service rotations. Residents were somewhat quirky--not a bad thing, but didn't feel like my personality meshed perfectly with theirs.

    3) MGH/BWH
    Pros: Definitely did not anticipate ranking this program this high. PD used the word "badass" numerous times during his presentation to describe the residents, and stated their main goal is to produce exemplary clinicians (I think PDs who brush this off and say "you'll get good clinical training everywhere" are full of it, IMO). It's Harvard, so TONS of resources. Boston is an amazing city. Residents were fun to be around, and definitely not what I expected from Harvard.

    Cons: No food money. Must pay for parking (although most residents do not own cars). Stronger surgical/medicine services scare me a little. Have heard some negative things about BWH, and how the patients there require a zillion consults.

    4) Boston Medical Center
    Pros: "County program with resources" is definitely true. Many great social services that mean you can actually make an impact on your patients. Lots of trauma. Probably the nicest interviewers on the trail--felt very much at home here, and could possibly see this program shooting up to #3 or even #2 by the end of the season.

    Cons: Ranked below MGH/BWH because I'll probably want to come back to the west coast at some point, and most BMC alumni stay on the east coast.

    5) UCSF-SFGH
    Pros: Honestly, I ranked this program this high almost entirely based on location--I think it'd be awesome to live in SF for a few years. Residents at the social were super fun and laid back. Love the mix of pathology that you get at SFGH, UCSF, and Children's.

    Cons: Extremely weird interviewers: one of them talked about himself for 70% of the time, and one of them read straight off of a list and acted really stiff. Hesitant about the strength of other services here. Cost of SF is ABSURD, but honestly no better time to burn through your money than when you're broke as a resident.

    6) Harbor-UCLA
    Pros: Would have ranked this program #2, but I'm not LA's biggest fan (which speaks to the strength of LAC+USC that it got me over this!). Could ultimately rank this program much higher. Really young and enthusiastic faculty. Lots of great education--birthplace of WikEM. Great pathology, similar to LAC+USC. Probably the best location (in terms of weather) of any program: most residents leave right on the beach. Residents are very friendly.

    Cons: Probably the same as for LAC+USC. Less volume, less trauma.

    7) Stanford
    Pros: Three rotation sites (Kaiser, Valley, Stanford). Very well-designed 4-year curriculum (new). Bay area is great! It's Stanford, so tons of resources to pursue other interests.

    Cons: Palo Alto itself is boring. Volume/acuity seem kind of lackluster.

    8) UCLA - Olive View
    Pros: Very happy residents. Very happy faculty. West LA = very nice. Lots of resources (they even pay for your Uber after night shifts!). Tons of cool elective opportunities.

    Cons: Price of living in west LA. Long commute to Olive View. Clinical training probably the weakest of the 3 LA programs (although still strong).

    9) UCSF - Fresno
    Pros: Amazing clinical training. Cost of living is super low.

    Cons: Fresno. Residents are an older crowd, most of whom are already settled down/married.

    10) Maricopa
    Pros: Great 3-year program. Fun residents. Lots of outdoor things to do in Arizona.

    Cons: Only a 3-year program. Too hot. Not as nationally well-known as some other programs.

    11) Northwestern
    Pros: Chair and PD really sell the program--residents seem to be able to do anything after graduating. Hospital is in the best location of Chicago.

    Cons: Not a lot of trauma.

    12) U of Chicago
    Pros: Cool perks like flight medicine moonlighting opportunities. Will become a Level 1 trauma center next year. New ED in the works. Really great PD.

    Cons: Terribly awkward interviewers. 3-year program.

    13) UCSD
    Pros: San Diego is an awesome city.

    Cons: Way too academic (PD says they want you to publish your scholarly project, as opposed to every other program that simply wanted residents to produce a scholarly work). Extremely low volume (I believe we were quoted 40k per hospital per year?).

    14) Mount Sinai-Elmhurst
    Pros: Awesome PD who was very friendly. Faculty and residents were all very nice, very happy.

    Cons: Manhattan (ugh).

    15) NYU-Bellevue
    Pros: Great mission to help the underserved. Passionate faculty and PD. Fun residents.

    Cons: Manhattan (ugh).
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  9. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Agreed, the more participation the better in terms of reducing the mysticism behind this whole process. If anyone wants to add anything to their submission feel free to submit another form, but specify the post number of your original submission on the thread.
     
  10. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1: 240s, Step 2: 250s
    EM rotations: HP/H/H
    Medical school region: Southwest
    Miscellaneous: Non-trad with significant business career prior to medical school.

    Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Fit with residents, 3 year>4 year, PD

    1) UT-Houston: just really got along with the PD and residents super well, really enjoyed how the ED is set up with a medicine and trauma side, the ED is crazy busy, actually really love Houston

    2) UT-Austin: Love love love the city. Great place to spend three years with plenty to do. This program is on the rise, should be one of the best Southern programs in the next five years.

    3) UCLA Harbor: Rotated here. Loved the residents and felt like they really knew their stuff. Love the city, as crazy as it is. Love the curriculum and how it is all set up. Only downside is how hard everyone is worked.

    4) University of Utah: love the city, everything I wanted Denver to be. Had really good interactions with the residents. All of them seemed super happy and loved the program.

    5) Baylor: loved the city, didn't like it as much as UT-Houston, ED seems super crazy.

    6) LSU New Orleans: Big beautiful ED, easily the best interview I went on all season. I only wish I like the city/state more.

    7) UT-San Antonio: Surprised at how much I enjoyed this program, seriously a program on the rise.

    8) UTSW: solid program, like the curriculum + New Zealand. Had a weird interactions with the PD and one of the chiefs. Dallas just isn't my type of city.

    9) Denver Health: Was really disappointed to not like this program as much as I thought I would, but just couldn't shake how insanely intense it all seemed. Really loved the PD and residents. City was pretty disappointing.

    10) UNM: Really liked how the ED is set up. Really well-regarded three year program. Didn't like the city and didn't really mesh well with my interviewers/residents.

    11) Boston Medical Center: Boston COL is high, didn't really fit in with the residents at all on my interview day. 4 year program is a downside. Cold.

    12) U Michigan: didn't really feel like the four year curriculum was justified by the PD on interview day, didn't really like city/area. It's so cold there.

    13) SUNY Downstate: rotated here, don't really feel the need to be beaten to a pulp for the entire residency to get a good county experience. Can't see myself living in NYC, didn't even apply to any of the NYC programs after my rotation here.
     
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  11. Gray Fox

    Gray Fox

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    Long time lurker here...formerly active user...

    Coming out of the shadows...after 4 long years...

    To thank you all for posting...y'all are the real MVPs.

    Very helpful...will pay it forward next year!
     
  12. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Shouts out to this anonymous submitter who went back and resubmitted with very thorough pros/cons.

     
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  13. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Submitted anonymously, via Google Form.

    Applicant Summary:
    Step 1/Step 2: 240s
    EM rotations: H/H/H
    Medical school region: West Coast

    1) Highland: + Amazing faculty, PD and APD are really approachable, I loved everyone I met here, definitely my FAVORITE residents, training is very intense, very diverse patient population and residents. They have months at UCSF and Kaiser every year, which adds a lot to overall experience. - COL, Unsure about Oakland (expensive, unsafe)

    2) UCSF/SFG: + PD and APD are awesome (Highland trained!), strengths match with my above mentioned interests, I like their tracks system -the 4th year seems to really enhance the experience, facilities are beautiful. - COL in SF may be the worst out of all my choices, commute between sites (but there is shuttle between them), parking is always a problem, Peds is alright but could be better (not enough kiddos in SF!)

    3) Stanford: + Amazing PD and APD. Main hospital with all the crazy tertiary stuff, San Jose county hospital with all the classic county population and resources, Kaiser Santa Clara for diverse community experience with very few other residency programs to compete for procedures. Fantastic quality of non-EM months, 6 mo critical care, elective time starting PGY2. TONS of resources to do all sorts of projects. Oh and they just stole away Northwestern's PD. - COL, recent change to a 4 year program, commute is bad among different sites

    4) UCD: + 3 yr program, U/S fellowship available, lots of community experience at Kaiser, scribes after PGY1, Peds ED, beautiful new hospital, very approachable PD, COL very reasonable for California, residents pretty outdoorsy and laid-back - Unsure of wanting to live in Sacramento, only 1.5 month of elective time.

    5) Maricopa: best training I saw for a 3 year program, Burn unit month sounds insane but amazing, most fun group of residents and social, awesome relationship between residents and PD, 1 month of elective every year, funding/support for international travel, some of the most accomplished/impressive residents - Phoenix summers, Peds experience not the best but working to improve it. If in California it would be very high up

    6) Kaiser SD: + Great PD, beautiful SD, 3 year program, great trauma experience through different hospitals (Scripps Mercy, Palomar, Randy), a ton of faculty members, good interview day and social, best residency program I saw in terms of WELLNESS, happiness, and hours. Surprisingly put out good number of research projects/papers. - Newer program, small class, very busy but low acuity at main site (not a trauma center)

    7) Harbor UCLA: + My favorite LA program, diverse and great population to serve, residents extremely smart and hard-working, but at social I did not find myself clicking much with them. Great PD and APD, good interview day, cafeteria food for lunch was odd but informative. Tons of residents live in Long Beach or other non-LA places. 8 hour shift + teaching rounds. A little like USC where I don’t see much value of the 4th year, poor Peds experience, very little time in ED as a 1st year which really bothered me.

    8) UCLA/ Olive view: + Fantastic training, 50% county at Olive view and 50% purely academic at Harbor UCLA. New PD. BEST social ever, hosted by faculty member’s home. - Horrible commute between sites and shifts are like completely mixed, so no way around the driving insanity. 5 months of elective time as 4th year, not very well structured tracks and mentorship like at Stanford or UCSF.

    9) USC: + I think best training in terms of acuity, diversity, and self-sufficiency. Some of the smartest, most hard-working people out there. Jail population experience, very well organized ED (it’s like 4-5 separate EDs). - I do not understand the existence of their 4th year, it’s a supervising role more than anything but the hours are still terrible from day 1 til the end. It was the one place where “cheap labor” came to mind. Very repetitive interviews, because blind interviews. Did not get to talk to PD at any point. I don’t see myself working that much for 4 years.

    10) University of Washington: excellent training, very strong 2 hospitals: county (Harbor View) and academic (UW), very diverse and fantastic faculty from all around the country despite being a newer program, social was pretty cool with many engaged and fun residents, interview day was nice but too many interviews. - Seattle too cold, intern year sounds the most brutal compared to all places I visited, ED separated into medical and surgical parts. Did not connect with PD or other faculty at all.

    11) Fresno/UCSF: + Fantastic training, looked more busy than USC, a bit overwhelming, great population, translators on site 24/7, moon-lighting opportunities within own ED! . Nice residents, intern class particularly fun and easy to talk to. Great COL, lots of residents buy house/apartment. -Lack of diversity within program, but it seems to be changing. Very family oriented (everyone super into child-bearing and the like), location, did not meet actual PD at any point.

    12) UCI: + 3 year program, fun residents, great PD, great ultrasound program/faculty, orange county is nice all year long, very cool social with great turnout, happy residents, Peds not well integrated, only 1 month elective. - Weird interview day, no diversity within the program, level of acuity is low, tiny work area, months of SICU and trauma are not very well-liked by residents. Very little opportunity for international medicine projects. No real county or community experience, but it does serve as the “county” hospital for orange county.

    13) UCR: + 3 year program. Great program in the making!, awesome PD - Brand new! afraid to take that risk. No international opportunities in near future (something about being a new program)
     
  14. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Just a thought...

    We should probably use this thread for any program-specific questions or discussion to avoid flooding the forum with threads.
     
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  15. surely

    surely MD Class of 2018 5+ Year Member

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    Makes it much more challenging to search for that information in the future, though. Plus current residents/faculty will be more likely to spot a post on the front page of the forum than they would be to routinely check this thread and sift through posts to find a question they can respond to.
     
  16. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    If you want a current resident to respond to a question then it should be posted on the program threads that exist. If you just need clarification on shift length or want to debate between two certain program in the same area then we don't need a specific thread for that.
     
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  17. surely

    surely MD Class of 2018 5+ Year Member

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    Oh, yes, I agree. Originally thought you were encouraging folks not to post in the program threads that exist, in an effort to keep those existing threads from cluttering the front page. Nevermind. Carry on the great work.
     
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  18. KinesiologyNerd

    KinesiologyNerd 2+ Year Member

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    Per Doddydog's request.

    UPenn... I really liked it, but I feel like the internet (program specific thread for instance) doesn't want me to like it. Thoughts?
     
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  19. em17

    em17

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    Regions in St. Paul vs Hennepin--any thoughts?
     
  20. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    LOL. And this is coming from someone who is originally from the Houston area.
     
  21. SpacemanSpifff

    SpacemanSpifff 2+ Year Member

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    Interesting to me these two were so far apart, because from my perspective more alike than not. And patients in the Santa Clara Valley lack diversity compared to Ann Arbor?
     
  22. Got Em

    Got Em ... 10+ Year Member

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    For 3rd years watching this thread, please don't worry. Everyone posted so far has been a superstar applicant and most applicants don't have a 250+ w/ multiple honors. As a matter of fact, 10-15% honor each away rotation, so the average applicant will look like 230s (step 1)/240s (step 2), HP (home)/P (away).

    That's all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  23. EM2017FTW

    EM2017FTW

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    Anyone know what the shift lengths are for LSU New Orleans? Thanks!
     
  24. irJanus

    irJanus Falling into a burning ring of fire 7+ Year Member

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    Even that's on the high end of applicants. You guys/girls gotta relax a little bit :)
    It was a busy app season, with some stellar applicants, yes, but this site self selects for the true outliers. Reading ranklists alone should tell y'all that.

    Based on what I'm seeing applicant wise and with brand new programs, seat expansions, and osteo program conversions to the acgme match, this year will par out with the past few. I'm sure only a few to soap, and those will fill, but don't let this thread freak you out.
     
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  25. Frazier

    Frazier turtle in a rabbit race Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    12's, iirc
     
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  26. 6yearmedstud

    6yearmedstud

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    What's the program that does 6 hour shifts ?
     
  27. irJanus

    irJanus Falling into a burning ring of fire 7+ Year Member

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    Why would that EVER be appealing. Youd work every single day (about)
     
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  28. 6yearmedstud

    6yearmedstud

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    But do you really need days off if you work 6 hours a day? Every day is half off.
     
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  29. irJanus

    irJanus Falling into a burning ring of fire 7+ Year Member

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    Yes... You do. Having a day you know you don't need to be in the hospital is invaluable, otherwise it's groundhog day for 3 to 4 years. No way.
     
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  30. TooMuchResearch

    TooMuchResearch i'm goin' to Kathmandu... Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    Actually you are required to have 1 day off in 7.
     
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  31. Zebra Hunter

    Zebra Hunter 2+ Year Member

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    I would rather work 50hrs in 4/7 days than 40 in 7/7 days. 6hr shifts sound miserable. Tons of hand offs, less consecutive time off, less wiggle room to ask for specific dates off or switching shifts with colleagues.
     
  32. OnlyOneZlatan

    OnlyOneZlatan

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    ...who cares? Can someone just post another ROL and make this relevant?
     
  33. Got Em

    Got Em ... 10+ Year Member

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    It's not.

    Based on the 2016 charting outcomes, matched US seniors averaged 233 on Step 1 and 245 on Step 2. No Step data for DOs. Matched IMGs averaged 235 on Step 1 and 242 on Step 2.

    I know you mentioned some other factors that affect matching EM, but brand new programs and seat expansions have already been accounted for in the charting outcomes.

    Like most other specialties, EM has seen an increase in the numbers across the board for the average applicant. Unfortunately the average right now is 230s/240s, HP/P.
     
  34. irJanus

    irJanus Falling into a burning ring of fire 7+ Year Member

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    You're not not wrong, just not thinking about the more relevant statistic which is more granular.
    Step 1 Maj of applicants btw 220-250
    Step 2 Maj btw 230-260

    And the split for step 1 sways more toward the 220 edge.
    Again... You're not wrong, yes the avg is there... But the true spread of that mid point of the bell curve is flatter thru those ranges.

    Also... The PD survey is a bit more telling vs the charting the outcomes data. It's been beaten to death, but SLOEs, rotations, aways, letters, and your interview are weighed heavily.

    Agreed tho... Onto the rank lists. It's been detailed a bit :)
     
  35. KinesiologyNerd

    KinesiologyNerd 2+ Year Member

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    (sorry this isn't a ROL, but it will be this weekend!)

    Anyone else struggling to determine if they were a little blahzay on a program because of the program itself vs. interview burnout? I've got one that I just can't decide.
     
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  36. Onscene

    Onscene 5+ Year Member

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    I'm struggling to determine whether I actually disliked programs or just had mediocre interactions with the 2-3 residents I talked with.
     
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  37. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    I'm using anything to distinguish between programs at this point. There are just a lot of really great programs out there.
     
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  38. KinesiologyNerd

    KinesiologyNerd 2+ Year Member

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    2-3 residents is becoming a trend and would factor in for me.
     
  39. gutonc

    gutonc No Meat, No Treat SDN Administrator 10+ Year Member

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    Any program that can't hide it's malcontents on interview day really isn't paying attention.
     
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  40. rcheech7

    rcheech7 MS-IV 5+ Year Member

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    Agree haha.

    -

    For me, I'm literally deciding between programs purely based on trivial things once you get to around the 1-4 of my list. Like can I live in biking distance of the hospital, is the beer good in the city, etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
  41. gutonc

    gutonc No Meat, No Treat SDN Administrator 10+ Year Member

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    So what are your 2-5 after OHSU at #1?
     
  42. SpacemanSpifff

    SpacemanSpifff 2+ Year Member

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    I'm just accepting that my decision will be based off of a collection of small sample sizes (which 3-4 residents I talked with, which faculty I met, where I went in the city) and other influential, yet largely irrelevant, factors (who the applicants I interviewed with were, the timing of interview in the season, etc).

    ... And also really taking comfort in this. In the end, I'll be stoked to match and train at almost any place I interviewed.
     
    AlgernonMed likes this.
  43. dreadpirateroberts

    dreadpirateroberts

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    We have to keep perspective on the important aspects of a program like interview day swag, meal allowance, and what color scrubs they provide.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  44. Frazier

    Frazier turtle in a rabbit race Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    Highest of fives.
     
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  45. Istaretoomuch

    Istaretoomuch

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    All joking aside who you interview with ultimately does have a say with what your gut feeling at the end of the day is, subconsciously or not. I'm posting a ROL before the end of the week even though it's kinda early; I'm done. Pumped to see what everyone is thinking on the thread. See some of you guys soon!
     
  46. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    The Northface v. Patagonia v. Offbrand pullovers/fleece is much more important than their scrub colors.

    Come at me.
     
  47. SpacemanSpifff

    SpacemanSpifff 2+ Year Member

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    Definitely! That's my thought: you can have a really fun applicant group that overwhelms a set of subpar interactions with the program. Being cognizant of that, and recognizing that you're much more likely to spend a lot of time with the current residents/faculty than those applicants, is important.
     
  48. SpacemanSpifff

    SpacemanSpifff 2+ Year Member

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    Arc'teryx over everything.
     
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  49. MackandBlues

    MackandBlues 5+ Year Member

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    Quality of hospital food/cafeteria hours - something to consider as well unless you're bringing your breakfast/lunch/dinner to every shift or not eating


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
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  50. KinesiologyNerd

    KinesiologyNerd 2+ Year Member

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    Food stipend amount and whether or not you can use it at the coffee shop trumps quality for me.
     
  51. Istaretoomuch

    Istaretoomuch

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    Having a real hard time between Ohio State and Indiana. Anyone else interview at both have any thoughts?
     

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