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2016-2017 Rank Order List and Match Results Thread

Discussion in 'PM&R' started by ukfan323, Feb 28, 2017.

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  1. ukfan323

    ukfan323 5+ Year Member

    Jul 19, 2011
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  3. ukfan323

    ukfan323 5+ Year Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    My interview experiences are posted here

    About me: Midwest school, MD, 230s Step 1, 240s Step 2, 1st pass CS. 3rd? 4th quintile of class? cant remember but not near top. Mostly pass/high pass on 3rd year clerkships. Did 2 PM&R rotations, 1 home and 1 away at Mayo. Letters were 1 away PM&R, 1 home PM&R, 1 Psych, 1 Medicine

    Applied to 35 programs, 19 invites, went on 12 interviews. ranked 11
    Applied to lots of prelims/TYs, went on 8 interviews, ranked all of them

    I was really looking for a program that had down to earth, pleasant residents and faculty that I could really see myself getting along with. I'm not a very high stress, "gunner" type person so I didn't have much interest in the programs where I got the sense everyone was focused on prestige and personal interests. Am interested in sports, peds, and msk. Not particularly needing to stay in the midwest but applied mainly to midwest programs with a few outsiders as I would like to be driving distance from hometown.

    Rank order:
    Indiana University
    Ohio State
    Medical College Wisconsin

    Mayo was just all around the best IMO and I really felt like I fit in and it would set me up for anything I wanted to pursue for fellowship. Also helped that I had spent a month there and really enjoyed it. Wisconsin was clear #2 based on the people and awesome gut feeling. Rest of my top 5 were programs close to home that honestly all felt about the same. Bottom half were either farther away than I wanted or just not that exciting to me as the others. Aside from the place I didn’t rank, I really would be happy at any of these places and none of them are places I would discourage people from applying to. I think it’s important to know applicant info and rank list when reading these reviews to put things into perspective.

    Invites received but did not attend: North Carolina, Baylor (Houston), UK, Kansas, Emory, Mary Free Bed, UPenn,
    Interview but didn't rank: William Beaumont
  4. Tigerhawk77


    Feb 23, 2017
    Thanks UK. I’ll follow your lead. Oddly enough my stats look similar to yours.

    About me: US MD, 230s Step 1, higher Step 2, 1st pass CS. Not certain of quintile.

    PM&R aways / letters: message me if you want details.

    Nice mix of pass / honors on 3rd year clerkships.

    Applied to 55 programs, 30 invites, went on 15 interviews and ranked 14.
    Applied to many prelims / TYs, went on 10 interviews, and ranked all. Feel very strongly about training at one community hospital program.

    Invited, but did not attend: Penn, Marianjoy, SUNYs, UC Davis, UC Irvine, UT Houston, UT Baylor, UT San Antonio, UT Southwestern, BU, NYU, Minnesota, MCW, Wisconsin, South Florida, Charlotte, East Virginia, Rochester.

    Interested in MSK / US Training / Sports. Strong preference for large class size, established program history / reputation within institution and area, and beautiful geography (I’m a sucker). No geographic ties, significant other has portable job.

    Also huge preference for not being “second fiddle” in a city. I’d prefer either being at the only program that serves a large geography or a program that is the heavy hitter in the city (Boston, Chicago, Houston, New York City). Maybe I have an inferiority complex.

    I’m hesitant to give actual rank order until after Match.
    Personal Top Tier (alphabetical order)

    Personal 2nd Tier (alphabetical order)
    Ohio State

    Personal 3rd Tier (alphabetical order)
    Cleveland Clinic

    Not ranked

    Concerning tiers: I'd be happy almost anywhere. That being said, some places seem to either have a few learning components missing or personality trait that clashes with mine. Both issues could be easily remedied and still make for a great learning experience. I feel that I could fall between my 1st and 4th spot and feel like I hit the lottery. Falling to 5th through 8th: no worries about learning deficiencies, no worries about personality clash. Will probably leave the program thinking that it belongs in a top 6 discussion. Falling 8th to end of ROL: make sure to identify what I'm trying to get out the program and make sure to actively seek it out if I'm afraid I can't find it there. Or maybe it's purely a geography issue. In that case, get over it :).

    Concerning Vanderbilt: I love Nashville, have family in the area, would have loved the PGY-1 training in one of the top IM programs, loved the faculty, loved the facility, and loved the residents. That being said, an interviewer in a prominent position made it very apparent that the program was not looking for what I offer. It wasn’t malicious and I appreciate the honesty. Also I hit my NRMP limit and Vanderbilt would have cost me an extra $30.

    Things for future applicants to think about:
    Class size: Small programs will fill quickly, making them as tricky to match as some big name large programs. Utah and Colorado come to mind: small class size + desirable geography = as tough to match at as any program.
    Categorical Programs: At first I just ranked programs to increase my chance of getting where I wanted (stacking advanced and categorical next to each other). Later, mentors told me that some PGY-1 programs are a bear and other are excellent integrated experiences. Based on this, I reworked my system to drop “bad” Categorical matches lower and raise “good” Categorical matches higher. I don’t want to say which program has “good” or “bad” PGY-1 years, but ask the residents on interview day. They’ll use code like “I mean…you’ll learn a lot” to soft sell a hellish PGY-1 year.
    Don’t miss programs: I knew about the big names and if you get an interview at one: go. These are programs that are not traditional top 6, but interviews that I was thankful I attended: RIM (Detroit Medical Center), Ohio State, Emory, Utah.
    California, you fickle state: Received interview invites from 3 programs. Did not get interview invite from two programs I was interested in. Did not attend any.
    Gender: I don’t know if this is a real or perceived truth but the top programs looked to have normal (50-50) gender distribution. Some of the male-only programs turned me off.
    Ultrasound: That's where all of medicine is going. MSK diagnostic ultrasound is how physiatrists can continue to differentiate themselves from every other specialty. Neurologists won't be interested in the MSK component, Orthopedic Surgeons won't have the time to learn it in residency, and radiologists seem disinterested in it. If you are interested in a program that doesn't have it, figure out how quickly they are working to remedy it. It is a sharp learning curve and older physiatrists are spending $20,000 to attend courses to learn it. You can learn it yourself, but do you want to do it that way? A place that touts its EMG training and has little to say about it's US training would be a huge red flag to me.

    Random (positive) thoughts on programs (if you are concerned about negatives of a specific program, you are welcome to message me).
    Cleveland Clinic:
    Interesting risk here. The program is small, new, and un-established. That being said, world-class institution, amazing fellowships, big-time money, and great PM&R faculty. I think someone with a little faith could go here, get good training, and know that in 10 years this place will be perceived as a second Mayo.
    Cornell-Columbia: I didn’t want to be in NYC. If I had any tolerance for NYC, this would have been a top tier ranking for me. The housing package and salary package make it seem more livable than I’d thought.
    RIC: Wasn’t sure I’d connected with faculty enough to know the program. They kept it pretty sterile. Then funny and unplanned experience during interview day exposed me to the “true” side of the faculty and I saw how great they were. New building will be great.
    Washington: Cancer rehabilitation shined through here (and Ohio State). By far the “coolest” residents. These people were comfortable in their own skin, proud but modest, smart but understated, and had so much pride for their program and city. I called a number of faculty after just to ask for career advice unrelated to their program and they wholly obliged
    Mayo: Full disclosure that the “Mayo Way” freaks me a out a little. Their “Way” is what makes the institution great, I’m just a little nervous that I can comply. It isn’t a negative, it’s just that I know if I match there, I need to be ready to re-learn a few things. MSK ultrasound: every AMSSM ultrasound curriculum video is broadcast from Mayo. This place is the place to learn it.
    Utah: Those who haven’t visited will wonder why it’s in my top tier with other traditional powerhouse programs. Those who have visited understand. I’m not Mormon, have no affiliation to the area, and really want to do my intern year at a specific TY program (which is impossible if I match Utah as it is Categorical only). With all of this working against it, there is too much good to miss. I’ll keep this love letter short: Huge catchment area, top sports fellowship, young / excited faculty, sharp and decorated PD. Osteo-integration actively happening, hospital built into the mountain, landscape / geography is beautiful and accessible, new rehabilitation building being erected, addresses all shortcomings quickly (lacked US, now has full US curriculum. VA rotation issues, quickly resolved and now a favorite rotation). Residents are smart, happy, fun, and close.
    Emory: Just go. Shepard will blow your mind.
    Colorado: The most fun I had at a resident dinner. Aurora is a + / -?
    Michigan: Most personable faculty.
    Indiana: Gorgeous new facility. Appreciated identify of program.
    UT-Austin: PD went above and beyond.
    RIM: Shadiest AirBnB had me chopping wood out back to supplement my “reduced rate.” I thought I was in for a Detroit doozy. Then I show up at RIM and it’s gorgeous, the residents are sharp, and the director established. Stroke patients were walking around in Exos like it was no big deal. I also got a sense that Detroit is on the up.
  5. ukfan323

    ukfan323 5+ Year Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Awesome stuff! I was super bummed to not get a Utah invite for the reasons you liked it so much..You might put the program review stuff over in the other thread so that people find it there in the future, also.

    For everyone else, I'm almost 99% sure programs had to send in rank lists same date as us so it shouldn't make any difference whatsoever if you share your rank list. Don't think anyone can change a thing at this point. But understandable if you don't want to :)

    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
  6. j4pac

    j4pac PM&R resident 10+ Year Member

    Aug 22, 2005
    PDs indeed submit their lists the same day as applicants.

    I know I greatly appreciated the reviews of programs before me. I felt they that helped me be a more informed consumer on interview days. I also think that my own reviews of the programs helped me be more objective about my rank list.

    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
  7. sports_med


    May 4, 2016
    Thanks for starting this guys…hopefully will help future applicants.

    About me: Cali school, MD, step 1 high 240s, step 2 high 250s, no quartile rankings at school, 1 first author pub and 5 others all in ortho. About half honors third year. 1 home PMR rotation, 1 away. Letters: 1 PMR from home, 1 PMR from away, 1 orthopedic surg (research mentor), 1 medicine.

    Applied to 20 programs, 17 invites, went on 11, ranked 11. Ended up canceling all the Texas and some NYC schools

    My priorities were vibe/resident personalities, location (preferred west coast), and quality of training/reputation of the program. Didn’t care as much about research opportunities. Interest in MSK/outpatient, possibly pain. Not looking for a place with intense inpatient/tough call schedules.

    Rank list:
    UC Davis
    NY Pres

    Applicants-rank lists are very personal. Everyone has their own idea of what they want in a program, and different priorities. Of course it’s good to get other people’s opinions on all the programs, but at the end of the day you’ll be the one going there for 3-4 years, and you wanna be happy, so keep that in mind and don’t let everyone else’s opinion influence you too much. Brief reflection on programs below- PM me if you have specific qs

    For me, Stanford was clear #1- well-rounded training, down to earth/chill residents, great brand name, desirable location. Faculty very supportive. Senior residents were very comfortable going straight into practice if they choose. I want to stay in Cali long term so would help w/ network/connections. Good fellowship placement and pain exposure if I choose fellowship. Tougher PGY2 year and more inpatient than the others at the top of my list, but still very manageable and tapers off throughout residency.

    UCLA/VA- great outpatient exposure, love vibe of the program, very friendly and chill residents (and my favorite PD- aragaki is awesome). Also chill call schedule which is a plus J Great option if you know you want to stay in socal, but felt not as well rounded training and reputation not as great. Would def be happy here. They do have solid pain exposure.

    Denver- wasn’t expecting to like it as much as I did. Amazing procedural exposure, lot of outpatient. Another one w/ chill call schedule and outpatient focus. Liked the residents too. However, no ties to Denver and just didn’t see myself leaving cali for it when there are such good cali options out there.

    UW- obviously great reputation, and my favorite residents overall (really friendly and outdoorsy, happy hour was fun on interview day). But found the PD dry, and had no personal connection with the other faculty that I interviewed with. A few of the residents complained about not having enough faculty support, and some students who I met who rotated there didn’t have great things to say, for whatever it’s worth…Plus, I’m not a huge rain/gloom guy.

    Spaulding- strong reputation, super new fancy facilities (nicest I’ve seen on the trail), residents and faculty actually much more down to earth than I expected. Some of the best research opportunities. It was too inpatient heavy for me (and didn’t love that its free standing rehab hospital-more medicine issues to deal with), and call schedule is tough (and in house).

    RIC- strong reputation, reminded me of Spaulding. New hospital looks like it will be amazing, great research opportunities, but inpatient heavy and tougher in house call. Also freezing.

    UCI- chill outpatient vibe + residents, but reputations not as good and multiple changes in PD over last few years made me a little apprehensive. Some of the faculty on interview day turned me off a bit.

    Davis- didn’t like location, too small of residency class for me

    NYC programs- big generalization, but felt the NYC programs grind you a bit harder- call schedules, heavier inpatient rotations, etc, just felt a more serious/formal/intense vibe across the board. Also don’t like the idea of NYC for residency with not enough money or time to enjoy it. Others seemed to love some the NYC programs though.
  8. futurephysiatrist


    Mar 20, 2016
    I've really appreciated reading reviews on here in the past and its interesting to see what others think this year, so I decided to post mine as well. Hopefully this will help people in the future.

    About Me: California MD school, Step 1 mid 230's, step 2 high 240's, lots of honors in pre clinical years, only 1 honors grade in 3rd year. 1 home PM&R, 1 away, 2 PM&R letters. Applied to 34 PM&R programs, received 11 invities, went to 10 interviews, skipped one due to scheduling conflict. Applied to 25 prelims and went to 7 interviews. Overall I wish I would have applied to a few more of both types of programs, PM&R is definitely getting more competitive.

    What I was looking for: A program where I liked the residents and attendings and had things in common with them. Reputation and fellowship opportunities were fairly important, research was not very important to me. Location was somewhat important as well, but I was fairly flexible. I really liked at least some things about almost every program so it came down to overall feel.

    Top tier (alphabetical):
    Ohio state
    UC Irvine

    Middle Tier (alphabetical):
    Carolinas Med Ctr
    Loma Linda

    Lower Tier (alphabetical):
    UT-San Antonio

    Colorado: Great program all around, strong outpatient/procedural experience, great well rounded inpatient training too at a variety of different facilities. Strong in Peds. Great call schedule. Nice Area. Good fellowship opportunities.

    Kansas: Up and coming program, with a great PD. Really got a good vibe from the interviewers and residents. Good outpatient experience, good fellowship opportunities. Kansas City is a nice, underrated city in my opinion, also very affordable.

    LSU: Probably the best program I went to if you are looking for a very strong outpatient experience in terms of getting procedures. Amazing intern year in terms of schedule and PM&R related rotations. Not great inpatient training, but residents still felt comfortable practicing inpatient after residency. Good fellowship opportunities especially if interested in Pain.

    Ohio State: Great program traditionally with a great reputation. Good fellowship opportunities. I really liked the PD, he was very impressive and knew my app inside and out. I really liked the residents that I met. The call schedule is a little busier while on inpatient rotations, and the PGY-2's all seemed a little tired.

    UC-Irvine: Very strong outpatient and procedural experience. Residents were very laid back and seemed to do a lot outside of rotations. Inpatient experience fairly decent and improving with new PD. Program went through some rough times with previous PD, new PD seems to have the program headed in a good direction. Great place to live.

    Carolinas: Very interesting program, residents were nice and all seemed to be very happy with program. There is a focus on leadership and business aspects of medicine which can be very helpful transitioning into practice. Very busy call schedule during PGY-2 year. Lots of autonomy when taking call which was a plus for me. Great moonlighting built in to program. Good opportunities for fellowship. Charlotte is a very nice city. Probably would've been higher on my list if not for distance from family.

    Loma Linda: very strong, underrated program in my opinion. Great call schedule. Pain fellowship takes 2 PM&R every year. Area is not the best but the weather is great and its close enough to get to LA/SD/mountains for quick weekend trips. Very religious, all vegetarian cafeteria that did not look great. Very nice inpatient rehab facility.

    Vanderbilt: Strong program- attendings with experience at places like Harvard and RIC were brought in to start this program. Great city to live in. Very intense PGY-1 year but you will receive great training. All the residents I met seemed to have a strong research interest. Inpatient rehab facility was very dated.

    UT-Austin: Interesting program, really liked the PD who seemed very supportive and innovative. Program will be on the rise in the coming years. This program only takes 2 residents per year which I didn't necessarily like. Didn't seem like residents got a lot of procedural experience yet, but they still had people matching into good pain fellowships. Great facilities. Austin is a great city.

    UT-San Antonio: Strong program for EMG, Procedures. More intense program than a few of the others I interviewed at. Very busy, in house call schedule.

    Note: I thought there were great things about all of these programs, and I would be ok with any of them.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  9. DoctorPar

    DoctorPar 5+ Year Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    About Me: Mid-Atlantic MD school. Mid-220s Step 1; High 240s step 2. Blend of honors/high-pass in clinicals. 1 home, 1 away PM&R rotation. Applied to 23 PM&R programs, received 22 invites, went to 14. Applied to 30ish prelim/TY programs, received 15 invites, went to 11. 6 publications, which probably helped me a bit.

    What I was looking for: Location and fit with current residents were also important as well as the opportunity to stay in house and do a fellowship. Also wanted a place where I can be supported in doing more research if I decide I want to.

    Top tier (alphabetical):
    -Kessler/Rutgers NJMS

    Middle Tier (alphabetical):
    -Case Western
    -Ohio State
    -Penn State/Milton S. Hershey

    Lower Tier (alphabetical):
    -Albert Einstein/Montefiore
    -U. Penn
    -U. Virginia

    Offered invites but didn't attend for one reason or another: Hopkins, JFK/Johnson, Mt. Sinai, NYP, RIC/Northwestern, USF, Vanderbilt.

    Georgetown/NRH - Great opportunity for 6 months of research during PGY3 at the NIH. DC is a great city. PD seemed super down to earth and cared a lot about residents. All fellowships. Residents were cool and from all over the country.

    - Residents seemed down to earth and were from great medical schools all over the country. World class research. Agree with everyone else on this program. All fellowships available.

    Kessler/Rutgers NJMS - Big name, great research. They cover up to $2k/conference which is great. Maybe not attracting the quality of residents they used to with the rise of some other programs. Didn't love the area. Newark (where NJMS is) is a dump. West Orange is just kind of suburban with a ton of traffic. All fellowships (and with a great reputation).

    UPMC - Incredible robotics research. Pretty large program (9); lots of options to do your PGY1 year at UPMC and it seems like a very fair year compared to some categorical programs. They cover all conferences. They also give you money each year for books and educational computer stuff. PD was tough to read, she seemed serious but also really nice. Chair/PD seem determined to ensure UPMC is a world-class rehab institute. Very professionally run interview day. All fellowships available. Pittsburgh is a great city with a lot to do and is very affordable. Residents were cool and from all over the country.

    VCU - Richmond is surprisingly cool. PD was pretty awesome and knew my application inside and out. Great research (including NFL TBI grants). Massive VA (very different from other VAs I've seen). Residents were down to earth. Prelim year wasn't the easiest I've come across.

    Case Western - All around solid program. Chair was really fun to talk to an a pretty big deal (incoming president of AAP). Good research. Residents were fun, although there was a higher percentage of IMGs than I would have expected based on what this program offers. May have to do with it being in Cleveland, which I was kind of neutral on. I believe they have all fellowships in house.

    Magee/Jefferson - Solid all around program with great reputation in SCI. PD seemed to really care about resident well being. It's in the best part of philly (center city). Seems like the residents work pretty hard. No EMR at Magee?? Sports and Anes pain fellowships but nothing otherwise, which is a bummer. Outpatient rotations were a lot of driving. Jeff residents can choose to do rotations at Moss (big TBI place in town), which is great to have in your pocket. I do not believe this is reciprocal. Residents were a mix of DOs and USMDs. Mostly mid-atlantic area.

    Moss/Temple - Great research and great TBI program with lots of research support. Seems very weak in SCI. Sports, anes pain, and TBI fellowships. TU hospital is in an awful part of town. Moss is basically suburban so it could be a bit of driving if you live in a more desirable part of town (center city). I didn't feel like I was on the same page with some of the residents but they all seemed very bright and were DOs/USMDs from all over.

    Ohio State - Arguably the nicest most caring PD I ran into. Well known program (re: Ernie Johnson). Surprised by how much I liked Columbus. Sports and Anes pain, but no fellowships otherwise which was a bummer. Residents were mostly USMDs from ohio.

    Penn State/Milton S. Hershey - Surprised by this newer program. Chair is a big deal in SCI and was really great to talk to. Seems like this place is exploding at the seams with growth. Nice rehab hospital with a cool research facility. Chair covers $1.5k for every conference you attend. Currently they only have Anes pain and sports in house but they are developing SCI and TBI fellowships. Residents were surprisingly not IMGs for being such a new program which I think probably speaks to it being well designed. The area is hit/miss depending on what you're interested in. It's pretty rural with a lot of outdoors stuff to do. Cheap cost of living, so would be ideal for raising a family.

    Albert Einstein/Montefiore - I didn't really want to be in NYC but got pigeon holed into this interview. Only met two residents on interview day, which seemed odd. PD didn't give a PPT presentation and was all over the place with his program description. Didn't love the people I interviewed with other than the chair, who seemed like a great guy involved in a lot of research.

    Cincinnati - Small program (2/year), great peds training. Neutral on the city. Not many fellowships. Residents (DOs and USMDs) seemed great.

    U. Penn - Surprisingly unimpressive for such a heavyweight academic place. The PD's entire presentation was basically: "Hey, we're Penn." The residents didn't seem to be the brightest, IMO. Pretty much everyone went to Sports/spine or anes pain (to be fair, they all went to great places). The training itself seemed like it wasn't too intense, you you would probably have a good amount of free time. They once had a pretty famous sports/spin fellowship but I believe that guy left. I think they just have anes pain and TBI fellowships.

    U. Virginia - Loved the residents here (USMDs and DOs from all over). Charlottesville is scenic, charming, and all around beautiful. Would be a great place for a family. Seemed like a decent but not great all around program. Seems like call is super chill here and you'll have a good amount of free time. Excellent running center with a strong sports med/outpatient MSK focus overall. They have sports and anes pain fellowships. Didn't seem to promote much research. I think you only get $1k for conferences total over 4 years.

    Conclusion: Lots of great things about all of these programs. I would be happy at all of the top/middle tier places I listed and I don't think the bottom tier are bad at all, they just had specific things about them that I didn't care for much.
    JFS likes this.
  10. schmee90

    schmee90 2+ Year Member

    Aug 21, 2014
    I Enjoyed reading other posts so thought I would throw my list up...

    2.Baylor Houston
    3. Washington
    4. Emory
    5. UCD
    6. UCI
    7. Ohio State
    8. Kansas
    9. LL
    10. Vand
    11. Carolinas
  11. SpinALL


    Jan 22, 2016
    These posts have helped me a lot over the last year, so I feel like I should include my thoughts to give back:

    Tier 1:
    Tier 2:
    Tier 3:
    Ohio State

    A few notes...
    Carolinas - Favorite city I interviewed was a toss up between Charlotte, NC and Austin, TX. Loved the PD Dr. Nguyen, best moonlighting of any program, the residents seemed happy, very strong research opportunities. Having dedicated PHDs within the PMR department with tons of ongoing research to just jump in and help with, was given a long packet of the current projects. Very balanced program with INPATIENT PEDS included (which I didn't see at many of my interviews). A floor in the peds hospital next door is dedicated to rehab. A lot of rehab hospitals to cover on call (home call), but this also added to the moonlighting opportunities (moonlighting is inpatient PMR!) so I considered it a massive positive. Nice private resident room with individual desks. Tons of outdoor activities including National whitewater center in Charlotte. Felt like they develop very strong physicians. Faculty lead didactics. Just started taking 1 categorical spot. Seems like Carolinas has lots of money. Free food money to use at the medical center next door. Random but unique - on the info they handed out it mentions they pay for health insurance for you AND your family. A lot of the benefits and crazy moonlighting opportunity seemed to add up to a significantly higher salary. Can do rotations outside Carolinas (and outside North Carolina) on electives and still be covered, which some residents gave examples of great experience they got by using this. Left here incredibly impressed with the education, city, and all the extras.

    Emory - Strongest program I visited on my interview trail. Sports and pain opportunities were incredible, I'd argue unparalleled. Shepard center was unbelievable for inpatient, considered top (or in top 3) hospital every year for SCI. Research seemed top notch, even CDC research opportunities across the road were mentioned. Good fellowship placement. Great reputation. Hear bad things about Grady from physicians I know but I think only a few months there anyway. Making a left turn in Atlanta traffic is absolutely miserable.

    Vandy - Intern year at a program like this would be huge positive. PD of the IM (intern) program was impressive during his talk and seemed to really care about the interns. Dr Frontera was the chair when I interviewed (originally from Harvard I believe) and was a strong asset but now he's leaving/left. Dr Yang, young assistant PD and interventional pain physician, was the biggest draw to the program for me... great personality and he trained at RIC. I think I'd enjoy Nashville as well. Newer program but with Vanderbilt reputation I think it's only a matter of time. Interestingly I agreed with a previous post that it seemed they were looking for very specific people/qualities and for whatever reason I left feeling like I didn't have a great chance here. Someone during the day also mentioned they interviewed 100 people for the 4 spots this year so that was a bit of a put off but I'll still rank it based on the opportunity I feel it is.

    VCU - Great well rounded program. Dr. Cifu (chair) is very well respected and has big TBI grant but not sure if this would affect residents research or not. Fellowship haven. Loved the idea of going to one city for 5 straight years (intern - fellowship). Richmond as a city was better than I expected but not as nice as some others on my list. Huge VA system was a plus for me. Very nice PD that I would get along with. Witnessed multiple attendings treating the residents with a lot of respect. Residents seemed very happy with their choice. Intern year information session was quick and didn't get a great feel for how it compared -- most residents that did it seemed to say it was hard but worth it. Linked intern year but not listed as a true categorical which was nice because you can rank their intern year #1 or anywhere midway on your intern year list.

    Tier 2

    LSU - Categorical. New Orleans seems fun, seemed like easier PGY1 with no IM inpatient. Not sure what to think of this really as far as if it would hurt me in the long run - went back and forth on considering it a pro/con. Instead you get an early start on PMR with pain rotation(s), and some stuff that relates to our field like Rheum. Insanely good procedure experience from what I was told. Probably best facility I saw on the trail was the University Medical Center (one of many they work out of) so I don't know how much time exactly is spent there. I think they mentioned it was 1.6 Billion dollars of Hurricane Katrina money that funded it -- some crazy amount. New VA will be equally nice when it opens next year. Not sure how safe the city is. Strong in Pain. Not many electives with all the pain rotations. Thought this group of residents were great, 100% the happiest I came across.

    RIC - Lots of reviews as a top 6 program. Not much to add other than new facility will make it even more popular. Only have it listed in my second tier because I'm not a fan of the cold or living in a NYC/Chicago type city. Think I'd personally be a better resident in a city I'm more comfortable - but only excellent things to say about the program. City is a plus for many people.

    UT-Austin - Again a top city. Great facilities. Newer program, but seemed to match well from what they had matched into fellowships. I think PD came from another program in Texas so he already had experience. Love all the outdoors activities. High salary, probably to match cost of living. Wasn't sure about no dedicated EMG months, but none of the residents complained about having it mixed in. Connected very well with a couple of the attendings and they seemed to be very invested in teaching. Didn't get a great feel for the research although I remember one of the residents was a PHD and mentioned he chose them because of certain opportunities to continue his research. For me this was the program that started out lower but the more I thought about it I kept moving it up.

    Tier 3 -- just want to point out I'd be happy at any of these programs. The others were ranked above because I found more that fit me personally.. not because I didn't like the following programs.

    Louisville - Seemed like a nice facility with room to expand, a 13 floor tower if I remember right. Sit in cubicles with the neurosurgery residents. The absolute best PD (Dr Kaelin) I met on trail, and he is going to be president of AAPMR I think. I feel like he has the program moving in great direction and would trust his judgement. There was turnover in the sports and pain attendings though and I couldn't get a good feel on why so many people had left -- and in areas I could possibly be interested. Otherwise this program would have been much much higher.

    Ohio State - PD memorized my application and was personable - the most time anyone put into doing so. Great history in the program but I don't know what that's worth really. Lots of big names previously went here. (Johnson, Braddom, DePalma, and lots more) Seemed to have a big roster of attendings which is a plus. Dr Pease is very well respected in EMG. The rehab hospital seemed old, a lot of 2 patients per room I saw. Everyone really seemed to stress the PGY2 inpatient experience is intense.

    Rochester NY - Categorical, cheap cost of living, neat smaller city if you can get past all the snow. Program was actually very close to what I wanted curriculum wise... strong outpatient I'm told. They have pain rotations but also Dr Everett who previously had a Sports and Spine fellowship I think - either way he is interventional attending -- very nice guy and I seemed to have a good connection with him. The PD seemed extremely willing to build the program around your needs for whatever interests you. Feel like she's looking for very compassionate individuals -- I think they mentioned some award they give yearly for this.

    UAB - Central location, only one other building a mile or so away. Less driving is always nice. Wasn't sure the research was on par with other places I went. Cheap cost of living, warm climate. Pain fellowship takes people from the PMR program, I've heard it's a really good pain program also. Spain rehab and the UAB hospital system was huge, but Spain was a bit dated compared to other places I went. Indoor walkways between all the hospital buildings that make up UAB. Seemed like it stretched at least 2-3 blocks. Children's hospital is really nice and I think they have good PEDS but I'm not 100% on that. Basically categorical now with intern year at Baptist built in/required -- this was a nice surprise.

    I'd be extremely happy to match at any of these programs. Probably the #1 thing I looked for was attendings that seemed invested in teaching and that I connected with personally.

    Good luck to everyone this year and in the following years.
  12. AT_surf12


    Dec 25, 2015
    Appreciate all the info that came from the classes before us, it was super helpful! Also, really enjoyed getting to meet a bunch of you on the interview trail. It was affirming that this is a great specialty to be going into.

    My info: Southeast DO school || Step 1: low 230's / Level 1: 565 || Step 2: high 230's / Level 2: 625 || 1st quartile rank || LOR's: 1 away PM&R PD / 1 PM&R home institution / 1 medicine / 1 surgery || 1 unpublished research project || 3 aways

    Applied 45 PM&R programs - 20 PM&R invites - 10 PM&R interviews - ranked 10
    Applied 55 PY/TY programs - 6 PY/TY invites

    My interest at this point is outpatient MSK, tentatively shooting for pain fellowship, so this definitely played into my rank list. The major factors I considered were how well I would be prepared to obtain a pain fellowship (either via great exposure/curriculum or program reputation) and location. As others have mentioned, it is definitely an individualized process so although those two things were the biggest factors for me, I took into account everything (connection with residents/attendings, overall vibe of program, research, any ties to city, categorical, etc..) and tried to make a list based on where I thought I would be happiest while also giving myself the best opportunity to pursue a fellowship.

    1. Vanderbilt
    2. UCI
    3. Georgetown/NRH
    4. Rochester
    5. UNC
    6. Louisville
    7. UAB
    8. USF
    9. Cleveland Clinic
    10. ECU

    Programs I received invites but did not interview because of scheduling or some other reason:
    Baylor COM || Mayo || Temple || Case Western || Penn State || Michigan State || NYU || UT-Houston || Baylor || Albert Einstein/Montefiore

    Vanderbilt: This program was the best combination of the things I was looking for. My wife and I enjoy Nashville and have family ties in Tennessee. I thought all the residents were awesome and felt I connected well with them. Although a newer program, Vanderbilt has a great reputation as an institution which I think could be helpful for anesthesia based pain fellowships or just marketing yourself when finally in the "real world." I agree with 'SpinALL' on Dr. Yang. He is one of the interventional spine/pain attendings and I connected with him well and would love to train under him. Although research is not my primary interest, the opportunity to easily jump onto projects with different attendings and strengthen my CV was a big plus for me. Again, although it is a newer program, I was very impressed with the faculty Dr. Frontera has brought in and seemed like the majority were young attendings that were excited to be a part of the program. Seemed like a strong outpatient MSK/procedural curriculum. Dr. Nitin Jain, research/sports attending is very well known and respected. Great opportunity to work with him. Pain fellowship in-house (anesthesia). Awesome opportunity to train intern year with their medicine department. Categorical. home call.
    Negatives: Expensive cost of living

    UCI: Best location without a doubt for the things I like to do outside of medicine. The residents all seemed super cool and very laid back. They got along well with each other and seemed to hang out a lot outside of work. Easy to see myself in this program and with these residents. Curriculum fit what I was looking for, very outpatient focused and great interventional spine exposure. Pain fellowship in-house (anesthesia). home call.
    Negatives: Expensive cost of living, no family ties to west coast, some of my interviewers were not very friendly (almost seemed annoyed I was interviewing there and not from Cali, not sure if that is true, just what it seemed like), traffic, advanced program

    Georgetown/NRH: I think DC is a cool city and is centrally located between my family and my wife's family. Have friends in this area. Strong reputation in Georgetown, again possibly helpful with regards to fellowship/jobs. The 6 month "research track" was a big plus for me. Again, research is not my primary interest but felt this offered a unique and great opportunity to be a part of some cool projects and bolster CV (current resident won "Best pain & spine research"). Strong fellowship placement. Dr. Whitehair, the PD, was one of the most enthusiastic PDs I met on the trail and left a great impression on me. Felt like being a part of his program would offer some great opportunity, not even sure what that might be, he just impressed me. Enjoyed my time with the residents, currently 17/18 guys although I think the intern year has more girls, and could see myself hanging out with them. Super nice residents room! Continuity clinic PGY 2-4 allows you to get used to following your own patients and assessing how successful your interventions are.
    Negatives: Expensive cost of living, was hard for me to gauge what their curriculum was really like/if it was strong or weak in MSK & spine/pain?, traffic in DC, in-house call, advanced program (although that is changing next year)

    Rochester: Have family ties to NY and think Rochester is a really cool city. Fits the size/type of city we were looking for. Very affordable cost of living. Curriculum was what I was looking for, outpatient focused and great interventional spine/pain exposure. Dr. Everett, one of the pain attendings, trained at Mayo and connected well with him/would enjoy training under him. Dr. Poduri, the PD, seemed very "for" her residents and shaping your schedule to best prepare you to be successful at the next step (whatever that might be for you). Enjoyed the residents a lot and could see myself hanging out with them outside of work. Most the residents seemed to have interest in outpatient MSK which made it feel like the program put extra emphasis in this area. All the residents I spoke with had very positive things to say about their intern year with the medicine department, felt they learned a ton but were also not overworked and treated well. Pain fellowship in-house (anesthesia). Salary was a little higher than most with cheaper cost of living. Categorical. home call.
    Negatives: Cold weather, not as strong of a name program

    UNC: Location is still desirable for us, although we have no real ties to the area. Affordable cost of living. Great reputation in UNC, again for fellowship/job opportunities. Strong fellowship placement. With all the research at UNC it seemed to be easy to jump on research projects. 2 new interventional spine attendings coming in that hopefully will improve the experience/exposure. I felt like I got along really well with probably half of the residents and the other half I didn't think I had much in common with. Pain fellowship in-house (anesthesia). Great opportunity to train with medicine department intern year. Categorical. home call.
    Negatives: It was hard for me to gauge what their curriculum was like here as well/if it was strong or weak in MSK & spine/pain?, I didn't realize how small Chapel Hill is (not sure totally if we would love it)

    Louisville: I really liked Dr. Kaelin, the PD. He was super easy to talk with and seemed committed to doing his part to ensure Louisville was as strong of a program as possible. I'm not sure if they just did a better job of presenting their faculty, but seemed as if they had specialty trained faculty in every niche. "Frazier" rehab facilities were very nice. Research opportunities seemed strong here, although I'm not sure they would be in areas I have a lot of interest in. Their new SCI attending seemed impressive and does a lot of research in this field. New sports attending coming in from Georgetown/NRH. Affordable cost of living. home call.
    Negatives: No ties to Louisville specifically, did not get to speak with the residents a whole lot so unsure how well I would "fit" here, they lost their PM&R pain attending which the residents said was an awesome opportunity (this spot will/might be filled already but unsure if it will be the same experience), most admits come in the evening (4-9pm) from the way I understood it - not sure why?, advanced program

    UAB: Location is close enough to family in south. Birmingham seemed like a cool city, good size/vibe for what we like. Affordable cost of living. All their facilities are very close together so not much traveling. "Spain" rehab center is well known and respected. Pain fellowship in-house (anesthesia) but one protected PM&R spot. Also supposed to be strong pain fellowship. Have orthopedic run urgent care clinic on Saturdays during football season that is supposed to be a great opportunity to volunteer and learn acute management of orthopedic issues. Starting this year if you match to their program you have reserved spot at Baptist Health Systems for intern year, so essentially categorical (as far as not moving twice).
    Negatives: Seemed more inpatient focused, was hard to tell how well I would fit in with the residents, in-house call

    USF: Nice weather all year long. Pain fellowship in-house (anesthesia). Their pain fellowship works through the cancer hospital and because of their cancer based patient population they seem to have the opportunity to learn some unique procedures. VA rehab hospital (where you spend PGY 2 year and couple months after that) is beautiful and state of the art. Dr. Stanley, general rehab attending, was super cool. Would enjoy working with him a lot and he seemed invested in trying to better the program. Probably as much or more spine exposure compared to any of the programs I interviewed at. Laid back program. Categorical. Home call.
    Negatives: No direct ties to Tampa, got along great with some of the residents but did not click real well with some of them, one of the weaker programs I interviewed at as far as academic/educational emphasis

    Cleveland Clinic: Awesome name in the Clinic. Reputation of training institute and networking here could open some doors I would assume. Tons of research at the Clinic so I assume easy to jump on projects with faculty within the department or other departments. The hospital itself was incredibly impressive/beautiful, would be cool to work in a place like that. Might be trivial, but really enjoyed learning about the history of the Clinic (probably my favorite part of the interview). Basically every fellowship PM&R has to offer, they have (including anesthesia-pain). By PGY 2 year they said you can have your own D3 team to cover. Have PM&R sports fellowship. Given the name, I assume it won't be too long until this is a top program. NO CALL, like actually ZERO call!!!
    Negatives: New program, small with only 2 residents/class (although they sell it as their residents + Case Western's because didactics are together) but I think I would like more interaction with other residents while working/day-to-day, cold weather and no ties to the area, was hard to gather much on the interview as far as what their curriculum would look like, advanced program

    ECU: Decent location, as far as staying within driving distance to family. Extremely cheap cost of living. 1-1.5 hr drive to the beach. Residents said you can get a ton of procedures (axial) if that is what you want. I liked the PD a lot, he seemed like one of the most genuine PDs I met on the trail. Just felt like he was honest and genuine with me about the program and what to expect from their program. The residents seemed to get along well with each other. Categorical. Home call.
    Negatives: Not much to do in the area, not a strong name program, no fellowships in-house

    Feel free to PM if you have specific questions about a certain program.

    Best of luck to everyone!
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  13. qwerty89

    qwerty89 7+ Year Member

    Jun 7, 2010
    Radiologists aren't interested in it because they learned long ago that its a giant time suck and more $$$ is made elsewhere. Well except at Michigan.
  14. ukfan323

    ukfan323 5+ Year Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    < 24 hours!! I'm on a medicine sub-I right now and can't focus on anything today lol

    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
  15. onehundred19


    Jan 7, 2016
    Hey all,

    Figured I should contribute as these posts have been helpful for me throughout this process. MD candidate, 219 Step 1, low 250's Step 2. unknown class rank. No home program, 2 away PM&R letters. Applied to 48 programs, invited to 22, went to 15. For prelims applied 23 prelim medicine and 10 TY-- 8 invites, went to 7 (2 TY, 5 prelim). I applied all over the country, but prefer west or east coast. I am unsure of what area of PM&R I want to pursue which made ranking programs a bit hard, but definitely leaning more towards OP/MSK/Spine. I am going to keep them in tiers because the nitty-gritty ranking came down to job opportunities for SO. I know many people have a strong feeling of what their number 1 is, but for me I could see myself very happy at any of my top 5. Honestly as I got deeper into the interview trail, programs really blended together and so geographic location and gut feeling had a huge role in my ranking. If that is not your style I HIGHLY suggest taking detailed notes throughout the process. I think in PM&R most programs have some aspects that they are really strong in and so you can't really go wrong, just try to go where you think you will be happiest and get the best training. For me it was important to have a program that I thought would really push me to be a great doctor, was dedicated to resident education, had good research opportunities and overall had a good work/life balance.

    Top tier (in no particular order):
    - Georgetown/NRH: Loved the research opportunities available, PD was great and seemed really dedicated to education and advancing the curriculum. Really liked the continuity clinic and ability to work with PT/OT for a month. Best "gut feeling" of any program of the season. Beautiful facility. Expensive cost of living. In house call, but seemed like it wasn't too busy.
    - NYP: Great exposure to all fields-- very few electives but honestly seemed like you got exposure to everything in the set curriculum. Opportunity to work in Tanzania for a month. Seemed like good guidance available if you want to conduct research. Dr. Visco is not the warmest PD but would be amazing to train in US with him. Good reputation. Great fellowship match stats. Lots of travel, one rotation about an hr drive outside the city. Couldn't get a good feel of resident culture.
    - Penn- Fun group of residents, all very happy with their choice. Good MSK/Spine. Categorical option. Seemed like you had great faculty support. Good sports coverage opportunities. Residents stressed ease of finding fellowships, esp pain.
    - UCLA- Grew up in LA so big plus. PD is very nice and seemed like a lot of thought was put into the programs structure. Loved that the first year gave you lots of OP and pain exposure. Required research which is good because I can tend to slack if I can. I love working in the VA, like the patient population. A little light on IP, but seem like you get good SCI exposure at long beach which is my main interest on the IP side. Lots of travel btwn sites.
    - UC Davis- Fun interview day, really strong family feeling to the program. Small program which can be good and bad-- residents stressed it makes it so you really need to know your stuff. Good OP exposure early. Weak interventional spine exposure. Strong peds. Unique neuromuscular exposure. Location not ideal, but only an hour from east bay area.

    Middle tier:
    - Baylor Dallas- loved the PD and residents, seemed like somewhere I would be happy at. Very small, and not totally sold on being in Texas. Lots of freedom in your schedule, but I worry that I may not have been pushed hard enough.
    - Baylor Houston- Great reputation, PD seemed really great, but seemed like the residents were a bit overworked and in some ways unnecessarily. Call seemed brutal at TIRR. Good research opportunities. Like I said, not too excited about living in Texas. Definitely the highest reputation program I interviewed at but had a strong negative gut reaction.
    - Carolinas- Dr. Nguyen is very intense and set on creating leaders in the field. Residents warned that interview with him can be intense, which was true, but also interviews with other attendings were a bit more formal than I was used to, lots of questions about tiny details of my app, felt like they were trying to catch me in a lie or something. Residents seemed happy, Charlotte has cheap cost of living. Overall think I could be happy but attendings just gave me an odd impression.
    - UTSW- dept chair has great vision of what she wants the program to become. I think in the next few years it will be one of the strongest programs. Seemed like encouraging research was a bit new to the program, but they are taking steps to make it stronger. Would have been top tier apart from location. Residents were a bit more politically conservative than I would like, but may have just been luck of who was at my dinner.
    - Utah- residents seemed great, all really happy there. Adaptive sports program was awesome. Interview was most formal of any that I had, but residents assured that attendings were very approachable and easy to work with. Seemed like many of the residents chose it for winter sports opportunities, which isn't important to me. Seemed like their were lots of research projects you could join in on. Seemed like you would get good exposure to anything you wanted. Location was not ideal.

    Low tier:
    - Cleveland Clinic: interview day was pretty much "it's cleveland clinic so it's great." They didn't really answer many questions of specifics in terms of how procedures were going to be incorporated or how residents would get involved in research. Seemed weird to have no call at all. Great fellowship opportunities. Seemed to only want people born and raised in the midwest.
    - JFK- Dr. Cucarullo is awesome and gave a great presentation. Honestly liked a lot about the program (great didactics, really practical curriculum for entering practice straight out of residency, great TBI) but the location was just not possible for my SO.
    - Tufts- Not a great reputation and sadly interview day didn't help. PD had very odd vibe, kept asking why I hadn't uploaded my step 2 CS during my interview which I don't think is a big priority. Another interviewer just kept stressing that you would have an in for Harvard fellowships. Rough PGY2 call schedule. Seemed like there was good peds and good support if you wanted to do integrative medicine.
    - UTSA- Good EMG education, residents seemd happy. Very early hours on some rotations, going in at 5 am which I think isn't necessary in PM&R. Great PGY1. I got the feeling that the residents were a bit intimidated by a lot of the attendings and had a pretty formal relationship and I prefer a more collaborative relationship.
    - Wash U/Barnes Jewish- Weird program in that it is part of neuro dept. Incoming PD was really nice and easy to talk with. Residents were nice but not really my people. Seemed like a lot of your education wasn't necessarily from physiatrists which seemed like a big weakness to me.

    Invited but did not attend: Kansas, Mizzou, Arkansas, Univ of Virginia, UNC, Univ of Wisconsin, Vanderbilt

    Like I said I think for the most part you can't really go wrong and most of ranking is just personal preference. I hope this is helpful and good luck to everyone!!
    JFS likes this.
  16. JPC2BMD

    JPC2BMD 5+ Year Member

    May 10, 2012
    Good luck to everyone matching today!
    -University of Michigan PGY-3 Resident
  17. ukfan323

    ukfan323 5+ Year Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    Matched mayo categorical!!

    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
  18. Joosbocks

    Joosbocks 5+ Year Member

    Jun 30, 2012
    The lack of activity on this thread is appalling. Sad!

    Matched Baylor College of Medicine advanced (and a TY elsewhere)! Beyond ecstatic!
    ishuman, Mash43, j4pac and 1 other person like this.
  19. ukfan323

    ukfan323 5+ Year Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    I know! Where's everyone going??

    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
  20. ItsJustNotKnown

    ItsJustNotKnown 2+ Year Member

    Oct 31, 2014
    Matched New York Presbyterian (Columbia & Cornell)!!

    Rank List:

    1) New York Presbyterian
    2) New York University
    3) U Penn
    4) Carolinas Medical Center
    5) Indiana University)
    6) Vanderbilt
    7) Louisville

    Happy to answer questions via PM or I'll post about a specific interview impression if there's interest.
  21. </TheBeautifulGame>


    Mar 9, 2017
    Matched UT San Antonio

    1- UT San Antonio
    2- Missouri
    3- Emory
    4- Sinai
    5- USF
    6- Sinai
    7- UAMS
    8- SUNY DS
    cowboydoc, Joosbocks, ishuman and 2 others like this.
  22. Norzy

    Norzy 5+ Year Member

    May 11, 2011
    Hi all!

    I am looking for some collective wisdom regarding my match result.

    I matched into my #3 on my list, which is considered a top 6, at least by SDN. My number 1 was my home state, a well-regarded but not often mentioned program, where I spent time getting to know the faculty, and residents, and did shadowing and research, hoping to sway my chances of staying. My home program is small to mid-sized. My number 2 was a similarly-sized and -reputed program from where I received a post card and a phone call (from the PD no less). Obviously, I didn't match into either of those.

    My class peer, with whom I thought I was similar academically, matched into our home program. I am so jealous and somewhat personally injured that I wasn't able to secure a spot at a program that's known me so well. Also, did the postcard and phone call method mean nothing?? I know we're not supposed to read into those...but still! Could anyone provide me some insight so I can improve for the future? And also, stop dreaming about this nightly?

    Thank you!
    Mash43 and Sea Otter like this.
  23. colourmebadd

    colourmebadd 5+ Year Member

    Dec 25, 2011
    Sorry you're disappointed and feel slighted by the match Gods. With small programs, it's just too difficult to know how match will work out and particularly when a small program has multiple internal candidates there can be a pressure to not keep all of them so as to show favoritism.

    As for the post card and phone call, you very well may have been the next person on their list but the people above you just beat you out. I'd like to think there is little to no gamesmanship in PM&R recruitment, which is obviously naiveté, but you should take it as a compliment and be grateful for matching at your #3, which will likely set you up well for your career and any fellowship.

    Having a chip on your shoulder at the start of residency won't do you any good. What's done is done. I've seen a lot of amazing medical students turn into lackluster residents because they felt slighted by the match process. Find your inner peace and use the resources available to make the best of the situation.
  24. Norzy

    Norzy 5+ Year Member

    May 11, 2011
    Thank you for your reply! It's very helpful to hear the thoughts of others. Rest assured that I will not have a chip on my shoulder - everything has worked out for me in my life and I'm incredibly grateful for what the universe has given me. I'm just a bit distressed because my family and SO are unhappy I have to move, and I feel terribly that I put them in this situation, especially my SO. I think people like us on SDN just want answers to even random things. Thanks again for your reply!

  25. blondiellie

    blondiellie 2+ Year Member

    Oct 26, 2012
    Hi all,

    Just a reminder to also through those basic interview day/program reviews into the interview experiences thread found here:

    2016-2017 PM&R Interview Experiences Thread

    It is a hugely helpful thread and I used it constantly during my interview season.

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