[2017-2018] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

[surely]

Can people update where they got interviews at....I don't think its been updated in awhile

Instead of posting them on SDN, lots of folks are contributing to the EM Applicant Google Sheet: Official 2017-2018 Emergency Medicine Application and Interview Sheet

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[Technorino]

What are people's thoughts on middle 1/3rd sloes? Does that decrease chances of matching?

 

[EM2018orBUST]

What are people's thoughts on middle 1/3rd sloes? Does that decrease chances of matching?

They decrease the chances compared to a top 1/3 and increase the chances compared to a bottom 1/3.

 

[BigGAC1]

They decrease the chances compared to a top 1/3 and increase the chances compared to a bottom 1/3.

Math checks out.

Your logic is undeniable.

 

[westdescartes]

Is anyone having trouble accessing the EM spreadsheet? I have to sign in and request access now for some reason.

 

[DoctorRatched]

Is anyone having trouble accessing the EM spreadsheet? I have to sign in and request access now for some reason.

Me too, was just going to ask the same thing.

 

[surely]

Is anyone having trouble accessing the EM spreadsheet? I have to sign in and request access now for some reason.

Thanks for the heads-up! Should be fixed now. Achievement unlocked: Spreadsheet moderation in stop and go Atlanta traffic.

 

[FutureDoc_OC]

Instead of posting them on SDN, lots of folks are contributing to the EM Applicant Google Sheet: Official 2017-2018 Emergency Medicine Application and Interview Sheet

Yeah I am talking about the spreadsheet. Seems like the places people got interviews aren't on there. Or at least not been updated.

 

[surely]

Yeah I am talking about the spreadsheet. Seems like the places people got interviews aren't on there. Or at least not been updated.

Go to the IV Offers tab. Over 1500 interview invites have been posted there. What makes you think it's not being updated? What makes you say "seems like the places people got interviews aren't on there"?

 

[TrailRun]

Can any current HAEMR MGH/Brigham residents (or students who rotated) clarify the shift schedule/ number throughout the years? I believe they said they get every other weekend off (but work two 12's each other weekend) in the 4th and potentially 3rd years? Also interested to hear about job offers graduates have been getting, since I imagine having the Chairs of MGH and Brigham calling on your behalf could help a bit. But still on the fence if it's 'worth' an extra year vs a 3+fellowship, although if there are less shifts overall (decompressed) during each year then maybe that's an advantage vs a heavy 3 yr.

 

[deleted547339]

Can any current HAEMR MGH/Brigham residents (or students who rotated) clarify the shift schedule/ number throughout the years? I believe they said they get every other weekend off (but work two 12's each other weekend) in the 4th and potentially 3rd years? Also interested to hear about job offers graduates have been getting, since I imagine having the Chairs of MGH and Brigham calling on your behalf could help a bit. But still on the fence if it's 'worth' an extra year vs a 3+fellowship, although if there are less shifts overall (decompressed) during each year then maybe that's an advantage vs a heavy 3 yr.

I wish I could tell this to every Med student who wants to go into EM: the limiting factor for getting a job is getting into residency, not getting the job. Even if you go to a “bad” residency program, you will get the job. You don’t need the chair of Harvard making calls, you need a medical license and no drug convinctions. We spend our entire lives trying to prove you’re good enough for the next step. Once you make it into residency, you can breathe. You will get solicited for jobs regularly. Even the super tough markets aren’t impossible. I had a guy offer me a full time gig in Denver (supposedly an inpenetrable market) a while ago because I took care of his mom. Getting hired just isn’t that hard.

The hard part is figuring out which job to take. You are limited by location, salary and job-type. You usually get 2/3.

Edited for typo.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Yep. The name of the residency matters like 0% for 99% of jobs you may want. What they want to know... Can you see at least 2/hr, are you good employee and team player, and will you create any administrative headaches. And honestly, many places will compromise on some of those things.

 

[deleted862488]

Is there any data on percentage of candidate matches to 1st choice, 2nd, 3rd... so on?

 

[surely]

Is there any data on percentage of candidate matches to 1st choice, 2nd, 3rd... so on?

There's no data that's specific to a given specialty, only aggregate data for the entire cohort of matching students across all specialties. It's in the 2017 match results PDF.

 

[FutureDoc_OC]

Go to the IV Offers tab. Over 1500 interview invites have been posted there. What makes you think it's not being updated? What makes you say "seems like the places people got interviews aren't on there"?

I am talking about places people interviewed and total interviews on their profile.

 

[surely]

I am talking about places people interviewed and total interviews on their profile.

By "their profile" do you mean the Applicant Info tab? If so, they can't update it because it's non-editable. Making it editable would open it up to being vandalized by trolls. The only way to update that information is to add your interview invite on the IV Offers tab, which will subsequently change the numbers in the last 3 columns of the Applicant Info tab. Kinda clunky, but it's working okay.

 

[theSmurfette]

Bump. This is where we are supposed to be discussing stuff.

ROL in the ROL thread.


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[TheComebacKid]

I wish I could tell this to every Med student who wants to go into EM: the limiting factor for getting a job is getting into residency, not getting the job. Even if you go to a “bad” residency program, you will get the job. You don’t need the chair of Harvard making calls, you need a medical license and no drug convinctions. We spend our entire lives trying to prove you’re good enough for the next step. Once you make it into residency, you can breathe. You will get solicited for jobs regularly. Even the super tough markets aren’t impossible. I had a guy offer me a full time gig in Denver (supposedly an inpenetrable market) a while ago because I took care of his mom. Getting hired just isn’t that hard.

The hard part is figuring out which job to take. You are limited by location, salary and job-type. You usually get 2/3.

Edited for typo.

I hope you are correct. But many people have told me that while it's not impossible to penetrate into a different city/market from an outside residency, the reality is that local places prefer to hire local grads. If you are an employer in Denver and you have the option of hiring someone from DH which is one of the best and most trusted names in EM, why are you going to give the guy from some other place that has "a medical license and no drug convictions" the job?

If you look at the San Diego market for instance, the vast majority of people who work there trained at UCSD (and now probably Kaiser SD). While obviously people coming from other programs elsewhere in the country aren't blacklisted and I'm sure several have gotten jobs there, I do wonder if it's at heck of a lot easier if you are locally trained.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

You can get a job anywhere. You just may not get the best job. Take the SD market. You can get a job in Southern California. I have had several residents move back and get a job out of residency in that market despite training on the east coast. But the problem with the SD market is, those jobs are so in demand, that any new grad, no matter where they are coming from, generally gets the shaft. You may get a job with a CMG easily, but you aren't going to get a partner position in an independent group right out of residency. Those groups, which may be few and far between anyways, can have you work 5 years of nights to make partner just because they can.

 

[EM2018orBUST]

In general, have the PD/APD faculty at EM programs all been pretty young and not had very long tenures in their position? It seemed to me like every PD had only been in the position for <3 years and many of the APDs became attendings <5 years prior. It seems like people switch programs pretty often or switch in and out of the PD role.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

In general, have the PD/APD faculty at EM programs all been pretty young and not had very long tenures in their position? It seemed to me like every PD had only been in the position for <3 years and many of the APDs became attendings <5 years prior. It seems like people switch programs pretty often or switch in and out of the PD role.

Its hit or miss. APDs and PDs change a lot. Remember, this isnt the highest job on the totem pole. Vice chair, dept chair, gme director, or joining the ranks of hospital admin may be on a PDs wishlist. Its actually quite rare for a PD to stay at the same hospital within the same role as PD for a really long time. It happens, it is just not the norm.

That being said, there are those of us out there that have no grander ambition than being in residency leadership. I have literally zero interest in managing anything else in the hospital. The leadership and training of students and residents is where I still hope to be in 20 years when I hang it up.

 

[TrailRun]

It's interesting looking at the past years rank order list threads (particularly 2015-16 and last year) compared to this year's; seems like many people were ranking some of the 'name' programs ie MGH much lower (very few had them for the top, many/most had them middle of the road or even last). Are we seeing a trend where applicants are moving more toward these places and therefore "top applicants" end up going there and it ends up elevating the entire program?

 

[EM2018orBUST]

It's interesting looking at the past years rank order list threads (particularly 2015-16 and last year) compared to this year's; seems like many people were ranking some of the 'name' programs ie MGH much lower (very few had them for the top, many/most had them middle of the road or even last). Are we seeing a trend where applicants are moving more toward these places and therefore "top applicants" end up going there and it ends up elevating the entire program?

Were those lists submitted before or after the deadline? I feel like if I have an unorthodox list I would hesitate to post it before the deadline in fear of convincing people that a smaller name place is actually a diamond in the rough. If you have a well written rank list with a nonstandard order, it probably helps your chances of matching at your top choices more to wait to post your rank list than compared to sending an LOI.

 

[kittykattat]

It's interesting looking at the past years rank order list threads (particularly 2015-16 and last year) compared to this year's; seems like many people were ranking some of the 'name' programs ie MGH much lower (very few had them for the top, many/most had them middle of the road or even last). Are we seeing a trend where applicants are moving more toward these places and therefore "top applicants" end up going there and it ends up elevating the entire program?

Im not sure the ramifications in terms of "elevating a program", but I am also finding this trend very interesting! In 2015-2016 everyone seemed to have Cook County in their top 3 and now all the lists that have been posted and included it have had it in the latter half of the list, as another example

 

[TrickyRicky121]

I currently have a program on my rank list in NYC that I am debating on taking off. I have never lived in a big city and I have a wife, baby and dog. I am debating on whether I’d rather not match than live there because of how expensive it is and the horrible things I here about living in NYC. Can anyone who has lived there comment on what it’s like living there on a limited income? Are there places to live on the outskirts? I don’t mind a bit of a commute but I don’t want to spend over an hour each way trying to get to the hospital.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

I currently have a program on my rank list in NYC that I am debating on taking off. I have never lived in a big city and I have a wife, baby and dog. I am debating on whether I’d rather not match than live there because of how expensive it is and the horrible things I here about living in NYC. Can anyone who has lived there comment on what it’s like living there on a limited income? Are there places to live on the outskirts? I don’t mind a bit of a commute but I don’t want to spend over an hour each way trying to get to the hospital.

You are aware that not matching and trying again as an independent applicant is much much more difficult right?
Additionally, there are lots of 'affordable' locales in NYC if you dont mind the commute, especially in Long Island. In my opinion, it would not be advisable to not rank a place and run the risk of not matching. Some NYC programs also offer subsidized housing. While not ideal for a dog, it still better than not matching.

 

[EM2018orBUST]

I currently have a program on my rank list in NYC that I am debating on taking off. I have never lived in a big city and I have a wife, baby and dog. I am debating on whether I’d rather not match than live there because of how expensive it is and the horrible things I here about living in NYC. Can anyone who has lived there comment on what it’s like living there on a limited income? Are there places to live on the outskirts? I don’t mind a bit of a commute but I don’t want to spend over an hour each way trying to get to the hospital.

8.5 million people live in NYC. Many (maybe most) of whom will make less money than you. So it's certainly possible to live there. That being said, if you don't think you'll like a big city (and NYC is the most "big city" in the US) then you'll probably be less happy there. I wouldn't leave it off a rank list because not matching is horrendous, but it would be fine to put it last because you don't like the location.

 

[MelMcT2009]

Can someone who interviewed at JPS PM me please

 

[AlgernonMed]

Is it match day yet? Time really seems to be dragging lately....

 

[Gray Fox]

It's interesting looking at the past years rank order list threads (particularly 2015-16 and last year) compared to this year's; seems like many people were ranking some of the 'name' programs ie MGH much lower (very few had them for the top, many/most had them middle of the road or even last). Are we seeing a trend where applicants are moving more toward these places and therefore "top applicants" end up going there and it ends up elevating the entire program?

MGH/BWH was ALWAYS a top tier EM program, on the same caliber of Cinci, LAC, and Denver (just different focus/academic), whether it got love on SDN or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise either hasn't rotated there, has no contacts there, or only interviewed there and aren't fully aware of HAEMR faculty, research, and impact on the field. This is coming from a guy who isn't ranking them 1st because Boston sucks but recognizes the program is a juggernaut in EM. I know for a fact the clinical training there is top notch, but like many ranklist posters have mentioned, I can get good training with more happiness, sunshine, and better quality of life in California.

EM has been slowly evolving over the years, and the type of applicants going into EM and the type or programs/careers they are looking for may be changing as well.

 

[theSmurfette]

A bit off topic, but the way my schedule is working out, Im doing my home EM rotation in august, and then my away rotation in september. Will that be okay for the sloes? Also my away is in a region I'm trying to "unlock" since I dont have any ties to that state, so will I still be okay doing it in september?

Yes that’s fine. I did my home in August and away in September. My home SLOE was uploaded before ERAS opened and away SLOE was in by The very beginning of October. Most invites go out after ACEP.


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[surely]

A bit off topic, but the way my schedule is working out, Im doing my home EM rotation in august, and then my away rotation in september. Will that be okay for the sloes? Also my away is in a region I'm trying to "unlock" since I dont have any ties to that state, so will I still be okay doing it in september?

Can you share more about what region you're in, what region you're trying to unlock, and your stats?

How much flexibility do you have? What would it take to do an earlier rotation?

 

[doggydog]

No, it's fine. End of story.

 

[carbonizedeyesockets]

A bit off topic, but the way my schedule is working out, Im doing my home EM rotation in august, and then my away rotation in september. Will that be okay for the sloes? Also my away is in a region I'm trying to "unlock" since I dont have any ties to that state, so will I still be okay doing it in september?

You'll be fine. I did the same thing.

 

[Perfect Hair Day]

Yes that’s fine. I did my home in August and away in September. My home SLOE was uploaded before ERAS opened and away SLOE was in by The very beginning of October. Most invites go out after ACEP.


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Are the rumors about ACEP true? That they have this wonderful residency fair that can help land interviews with programs the applicant may otherwise not have received?

 

[theSmurfette]

Are the rumors about ACEP true? That they have this wonderful residency fair that can help land interviews with programs the applicant may otherwise not have received?

Couldn’t tell you. Never went.


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[doggydog]

Are the rumors about ACEP true? That they have this wonderful residency fair that can help land interviews with programs the applicant may otherwise not have received?

If you want to spend hundreds of dollars to go schmooze and maybe land an extra interview, sure.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Are the rumors about ACEP true? That they have this wonderful residency fair that can help land interviews with programs the applicant may otherwise not have received?

One of my residents went this past year and met a handful of interested students that netted them interviews. I’m likely going to go ACEP and attend the residency fair this year. It’s ACEPs 50th anniversary. I’d like to make it a point to try to go every year.

 

[surely]

Texas. MD student, step 1 between 235 and 240. From west coast, school in east.

For what it's worth, I met many people who got invites in TX without an away there. I know, this contradicts what's been said on SDN in the past.

From your post, it doesn't sound like you have any flexibility anyway, but I do think you'll be fine. If you'd said you had anything borderline about your application (like very low step scores, trying to break into Cali from the midwest), and that you could maybe move your rotations earlier but it would mean postponing a climbing trip in Spain or something, I would have recommended you move things around.

 

[sfwtboy]

Can confirm I got 3/3 interviews in Texas and I had never been to the state before! (Med school on East Coast)

 

[AlgernonMed]

I went to school in Texas and did an away in Texas.....it was the only interview I was offered from the state...so i think any kind of logic and trying to figure out the system is futile.

 

[SalemK]

Are the rumors about ACEP true? That they have this wonderful residency fair that can help land interviews with programs the applicant may otherwise not have received?

Attending ACEP isn't cheap, but nothing about interview season is cheap so I wouldn't let that be your deciding factor -- especially if you are concerned you may not get as many interviews as you need. The residency fair is worthwhile if you do your homework and have a plan of attack for the 2 hours of speed-schmoozing. You can see on the ACEP site which programs will be there and they are divided out by region. Find the programs you're interested in, shake some hands, mention specifics about why you'd like to rotate/interview there. Ask a question, show interest. Some programs have sign-in sheets and this can lead to a few points in your favor when they are deciding who to invite for sub-Is or interviews. You will definitely get business cards and contact info for everyone from residents to PDs. If you have time, go say hi at places where you already have sub-Is or interviews scheduled and re-affirm that you are looking forward to spending time at their program.

As in life, a considerable portion of this whole game is who you know and how to stand out from the massive pile of faceless applications. If someone on an interview committee remembers your name, it could help. If you have a resident you can follow up with ("Hey, remember me, we met briefly at ACEP") it could help. I absolutely got multiple interviews by attending. (Besides, you can secretly judge programs by the swag they are handing out. J/K, mostly.)

Residency fair aside, ACEP is a blast. Cruise the expo floor and play with all the shiny new toys, and go to lectures that interest you (they are all short and geared for EM attention spans).

 

[clibby]

My program only gave out one extra interview based on meeting someone at a residency fair (not necessarily ACEP). They basically were convinced that the applicant was actually interested in our program despite no ties to the region. Like most programs, there is only a limited number of interviews, so if your app doesn't show some connection to the region or shows an interest in a community/academic/county based program that you are applying to, then you may get passed over despite great stats. A residency fair can give you the opportunity to make that pitch to a program as to why you think you would be a good fit and actually want to train there, but won't fix an app that would not otherwise get an interview. Alternatively, you could send a personalized email about your interest. A residency fair should be for the applicants to get to know about a program, not the other way around.

Not all programs give out interviews the same way, but for programs that are not always in the top 10-20 of the SDN rank lists, the PDs may have their own system so they don't interview 500 people or have everyone cancel in January including a regional preference or some other interest on their app.

 

[surely]

I'm wary of making "go to ACEP" the new normal for applicants in this increasingly competitive and demanding process. The problems with going to ACEP to score interviews are:

1) it's expensive and far away (San Diego in 2018)
2) it occurs before most interviews have gone out, so you don't know if maybe you would have gotten an interview anyway (Oct 1-4 2018 is before most IVs compared to late Oct during the 2017-2018 application cycle)
3) the vast vast majority of interviews are sent out without any help from in-person networking at ACEP

 

[Apollyon]

One of my residents went this past year and met a handful of interested students that netted them interviews. I’m likely going to go ACEP and attend the residency fair this year. It’s ACEPs 50th anniversary. I’d like to make it a point to try to go every year.

I'm going to ACEP this year because it's in San Diego!!

 

[SalemK]

I'm wary of making "go to ACEP" the new normal for applicants in this increasingly competitive and demanding process. The problems with going to ACEP to score interviews are:

1) it's expensive and far away (San Diego in 2018)
2) it occurs before most interviews have gone out, so you don't know if maybe you would have gotten an interview anyway (Oct 1-4 2018 is before most IVs compared to late Oct during the 2017-2018 application cycle)
3) the vast vast majority of interviews are sent out without any help from in-person networking at ACEP

I definitely agree with where you're coming from and don't intend to be adding one more expensive and time-consuming step to this entire process. I just don't want to discourage folks from going if they really are interested, and there is more at ACEP than just the residency fair. I acquired my most interesting EM-related extracurricular by chatting with some folks at a booth on the expo floor when I went as a third year. As always, your mileage may vary.

 

[Perfect Hair Day]

Attending ACEP isn't cheap, but nothing about interview season is cheap so I wouldn't let that be your deciding factor -- especially if you are concerned you may not get as many interviews as you need. The residency fair is worthwhile if you do your homework and have a plan of attack for the 2 hours of speed-schmoozing. You can see on the ACEP site which programs will be there and they are divided out by region. Find the programs you're interested in, shake some hands, mention specifics about why you'd like to rotate/interview there. Ask a question, show interest. Some programs have sign-in sheets and this can lead to a few points in your favor when they are deciding who to invite for sub-Is or interviews. You will definitely get business cards and contact info for everyone from residents to PDs. If you have time, go say hi at places where you already have sub-Is or interviews scheduled and re-affirm that you are looking forward to spending time at their program.

As in life, a considerable portion of this whole game is who you know and how to stand out from the massive pile of faceless applications. If someone on an interview committee remembers your name, it could help. If you have a resident you can follow up with ("Hey, remember me, we met briefly at ACEP") it could help. I absolutely got multiple interviews by attending. (Besides, you can secretly judge programs by the swag they are handing out. J/K, mostly.)

Residency fair aside, ACEP is a blast. Cruise the expo floor and play with all the shiny new toys, and go to lectures that interest you (they are all short and geared for EM attention spans).

Thank you for the well-thought out reply, as well as to everyone else who replied. I'll be submitting some abstracts to ACEP, so my chief purpose for going would be to present my work, in which case the marginal cost of going to the residency fair is zero dollars lol. I just wanted to get a sense of how efficacious the residency fair is. I will have done my away rotation by the time ACEP rolls around, so this is chiefly about seeing other programs, getting more info, and giving the 30-second elevator pitch. Appreciate the advice on how to make that work.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Are the rumors about ACEP true? That they have this wonderful residency fair that can help land interviews with programs the applicant may otherwise not have received?

Landed 4 interviews within a week or two after the fair from the booths I visited and spoke to their PDs about. Would be random if I got one or two, but to get 4 interviews specifically from the programs I talked to would point to the fact that it can work in your favor.

If you want to spend hundreds of dollars to go schmooze and maybe land an extra interview, sure.

Its maybe 150-200. If you have points or airline miles, then it should be almost free. When you pay 200k in tuition, the extra 200-300 barely registers.

I'm wary of making "go to ACEP" the new normal for applicants in this increasingly competitive and demanding process. The problems with going to ACEP to score interviews are:

1) it's expensive and far away (San Diego in 2018)
2) it occurs before most interviews have gone out, so you don't know if maybe you would have gotten an interview anyway (Oct 1-4 2018 is before most IVs compared to late Oct during the 2017-2018 application cycle)
3) the vast vast majority of interviews are sent out without any help from in-person networking at ACEP

Like it or not, there were a plethora of students going to the residency fair and the number will only continue to increase, given that you get some face time with programs that you wouldnt otherwise. To speak on your points:

1) expensive is relative. Med school education is expensive. Not matching is expensive. Spending 200-300 on a flight and maybe a cheap hotel is worthwhile. If you have a credit card that gives you a free night at a hotel, then your only real cost is the flight. In the grand scheme of things, 200-300 on top of a 200K loan is nothing.
2) Yeah, maybe not. in 2017, it was October 27-28. Granted in 2018 it is October 1-4, BUT ACEP19, ACEP20, and ACEP21 are all in the last week of October (25th-27th). Since a huge wave goes out in the first week of October, the following ACEP fairs after 2018 can be of some benefit in getting your application read.
3) You are correct. Hence, attending this fair should be for people who are somewhat borderline, or if they are competitive applicants who are genuinely interested in a program that is tentatively in their top 3 that they haven't received an invite from.

 

[sfwtboy]

Personally went to ACEP as well and didn't get any interviews from it, but I received most of my interviews before it. A lot of people I met weren't APDs/PDs at it actually and met a lot of residents at the booths. Don't personal know how people are nabbing interviews at these as the most we talked about my application was simply saying O yeah I applied! Certain programs like Vandy had a QR code and google form you could fill out to say hey look I stopped by and am interested in your program and felt kinda bad for the resident there because as soon as students heard about it she was mobbed (also being from Vandy didn't help being popular I'm sure). Other considerations are that my top 2 programs weren't even at ACEP so do your research because not everyone has a table. In the end I'd go to ACEP because it's fun (especially the student and resident EMRA event) don't go for interviews because you're setting yourself up for disappointment even if it has worked for a couple people in the past it's not the majority.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I'm wary of making "go to ACEP" the new normal for applicants in this increasingly competitive and demanding process. The problems with going to ACEP to score interviews are:

1) it's expensive and far away (San Diego in 2018)
2) it occurs before most interviews have gone out, so you don't know if maybe you would have gotten an interview anyway (Oct 1-4 2018 is before most IVs compared to late Oct during the 2017-2018 application cycle)
3) the vast vast majority of interviews are sent out without any help from in-person networking at ACEP

I TOTALLY agree. I certainly don't think candidates need to go to ACEP or any other residency fairs to secure interviews. But it does net some candidates some interviews. I can vouch that we probably interviewed 5 or so people who seemed genuinely interested in our program when they met and interacted with our resident representative. She gave me a list of all the people she interacted with and who seemed interested and I went through all those apps and extended a handful of interviews. So it did help a few. But it certainly isn't necessary for people to do.