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*** 2017-2018 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

Discussion in 'Physician Scientists' started by Fencer, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    I have not created this thread as of yet for this year.

    Here are some stats. As of 9/1/17, the cohort of MD/PhD applicants for this year has taken primarily the new MCAT. Out of the 1338 MD/PhD applicants to date, only 50 haven't taken it as of yet (27 w old MCAT). The average new MCAT for all MD/PhD applicants is 512 (n=1288). I expect around 1900 applicants by the end of the cycle.

    Last cycle (2016-17), we also had an average new MCAT for applicants at this point of 512 (n=991) with 245 applicants with old MCAT and 18 waiting to take it. We had 1825 applicants for this cycle.

    It is my impression that AMCAS seems to be verifying applications a bit faster than in prior cycles.

    Here is the link for the national GOOGLE calendar for MD/PhD programs interviews and second visits. It needs updating for the 2017-18 cycle. It should be live in a couple of weeks:
    MD-PhD Interviews and Revisit Days
     
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  3. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    In the Invitation to Interview thread, we have reports of invitations from 50 MD/PhD programs. We are also now at mid-September, many of you have received some invitations, and the great majority of applicants are nervous about their chances.
    Here are some stats:
    1489 MD/PhD applicants (verified applications) by 09/20
    1437 applicants have taken the new MCAT
    average new MCAT for applicants - 511.5
    average cGPA for applicants - 3.69
    average science GPA - 3.62

    The calendar link above now lists the schedules for interviews of several MD/PhD programs. There is a change in the person running this calendar and doing the service to our community to collect the information.

    IMPORTANT ADVICE:
    On average, you should be looking to do 8-12 interviews, to get 3-5 acceptances to choose from.
    Unless you have very special circumstances, don't interview in more than 15 programs. Start triaging interviews. By now (late September), about half of the interview spots have already been scheduled. If you have 6+ interviews scheduled, you are like to be OK, specially if you haven't heard from 6-10 schools that are a match or safety. This should be an enjoyable journey. If you have 6 or less invitations, and the schools that you haven't heard are only "reach schools". Consider adding a few more schools that are match and/or safety. If you have already verified, you will appear into their pool of applicants within 2-3 days.

    PM me if you want to discuss specifics. There is still time to make it on this cycle...
     
  4. shadow522

    shadow522

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    I am curious about your opinion on something. Among the NIH-funded MSTPs, how much meaning does the US News-given rank of a school have? I read through a number of other posters' comments and it still seems unclear to me whether a difference in quality of education or potential reputation-based benefit (esp. for residency application purposes) for attending a rank #10 vs rank #30 exists.

    (I only mentioned the US News list because I don't know of another ranking list. I know the NIH has lists with funding #s for each school, but I'm unsure of where those lists are and links on some of the old sdn threads are outdated/no longer exist. I would be happy if you could share new NIH funding links/resources, too.)
     
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  5. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    These are NIH rankings to medical school departments in 2016. The flaw is that for places like Harvard, most of the research is done at the hospitals (Mass General, Partners, etc...).

    Ranking Tables of National Institutes of Health (NIH) Award Data 2016

    US News & World report has a significant portion of just "old boys reputation" that takes years to change and does not mean excellent MSTP training.
     
  6. playedmyself55

    playedmyself55

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    Thanks for making this thread! Do you by any chance have data on how many international students applied to MD/PhD programs this year? Even the MSAR doesn't provide MD/PhD program-specific demographic data for international applications/interviews, and I am curious about how many schools that 'accept highly qualified non-US citizens' actually interview international students (especially since many of these schools didn't matriculate any internationals this fall).
     
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  7. Lucca

    Lucca Will Walk Rope for Sandwich Moderator Rocket Scientist 2+ Year Member

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    https://www.aamc.org/download/321546/data/factstableb9.pdf

    18 potential international students matriculated last cycle among 649 total matriculants. 4 definite internationals.
     
  8. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    The problem with this table is that there are some individuals who have green cards or are US citizens living abroad. They are included in the international pool. The true number of international students is quite small.

    For information, look at:
    MD-PhD Dual Degree Training
    Tools for MD-PhD Applicants
    and in particular: in the last link look for the worksheet entitled "Individual MD-PhD Program Information for Prospective Applicants"
     
    Lucca likes this.
  9. playedmyself55

    playedmyself55

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    Great. Thanks for the response (and links)! I'll look through this information as I try to decide the best way to proceed when I apply next year.
     
  10. TurtleGnome

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    I’m curious - do you have information on the total number of acceptances offered so far? I’m wondering how many spots from earlier interview spots they select vs leaving them open for later interview slots
     
    silverwind278 likes this.
  11. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Nov. 1, 2017

    Total number of applicants - 1747
    Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 75
    Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 1
    Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 1
    Currently Accepted (AC) - 73

    Average benchmarks for the 75 with a MD/PhD acceptance
    cGPA - 3.84
    sGPA - 3.82
    MCAT - 517.9

    As it is in prior years, I expect about 775 MD/PhD acceptances with about 100+ WA (to MD programs) and about 20+ Deferrals to a later class (DF), for a class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students.
     
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  12. Microbug

    Microbug

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    What can be grounds for program rescinding acceptances?
     
  13. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    It is rare. Every year there is one or two RAs but typically close to the end of the cycle. For example, you run a background check after acceptance, and the admission officer finds something unexpected and not disclosed previously.
     
  14. hello311

    hello311

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    @Fencer I was wondering if you could comment on the number of remaining interview spots at this point in the cycle. Thanks!
     
  15. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    Check out the google calendar... Some programs finish interviews in December, majority in January, and a few in early February. Most slots for interviews are extended 4-6 weeks prior to interview, with perhaps a couple of invitations closer to interview date due to rescheduling/cancellations. Most PDs don't enter data directly into AP Tools (AMCAS). Thus, most of them don't use the features for interviewing that are available, which means that the national reports don't capture information that is relevant to answer your question.
     
  16. bunnyluvr

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    @Fencer I expect this must vary widely by school, but I was wondering if you could provide some insight on what the typical range is for the number of students that a school will accept after the interview stage. Schools only report number of extended interviews and then matriculation numbers rather than acceptances, and so there's a missing step there.

    Say a school gets 400 applications and interviews around 70 students, to matriculate around 10. How many of the 70 interviewees might expect an acceptance? Or a high position on the wait list? I guess this question also is primarily referring to the schools that do not do rolling admissions, but maybe it's the same for either?

    Thanks!
     
  17. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    No data available, but I suspect that the numbers would be between 1/3 and 1/2 of interviewees if WB are included. Quite a few people who would be within that top 1/2 of interviewees as ranked by the program after interviews withdraw prior to acceptance (WB). Those numbers are also not included in any reported yield (% of acceptances that matriculate) that a program might disclose to applicants.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
    mega_ and bunnyluvr like this.
  18. Microbug

    Microbug

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    What do you think the GOP tax bill would mean for MSTP students... considering both med and grad school tuition waiver would now be taxable income...?
     
  19. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    It is sounds like the GOP tax bill will be struggling to make it after yesterday's election and given the cost of the bill (adding to the deficit). Clearly, the aspect of the bill that you mentioned is one that would be damaging for MD/PhD and Graduate students.
     
  20. bunnyluvr

    bunnyluvr

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    @Fencer, is there data available for the average number of interviews that MD/PhD candidates had in last year's cycle? I know you said above that 8 - 12 is ideal, but does that represent the average seen in previous years?

    Is it typically the case that applicants receive acceptances from about half of their interviews, or does this vary widely?

    Thanks!
     
  21. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    There is no public data on either question. This is based upon my reviews of MSTP grant applications in study section (program tables), as well as talking with other MD/PhD directors. The only national data available is about the average number of MD/PhD applications per applicant. See the footnote on last page of the 2016 cycle: https://www.aamc.org/download/321544/data/factstableb8.pdf
    13.5 MD/PhD applications per applicant
     
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  22. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Dec. 1, 2017

    Total number of applicants - 1808
    Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 149
    Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 1
    Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 5
    Currently Accepted (AC) - 143

    Average benchmarks for the 143 with a MD/PhD acceptance
    cGPA - 3.82
    sGPA - 3.80
    MCAT - 517.1​

    As it is in prior years, I expect about 775 MD/PhD applicants to receive at least one acceptance, with about 100+ to WA (to MD programs) plus about 20+ Deferrals to a later class (DF), for a matriculating class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students. Many times the deferrals are added at the end of the cycle, reactivating a prior application to a single school, so the final tally of total applicants increases by about 20 close to the end.
     
  23. VSA

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  24. VSA

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    Has anyone heard back from SUNY Upstate MD PhD acceptances for incoming fall 2018?
     
  25. shadow522

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    bunnyluvr likes this.
  26. yolo0987

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    Z
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  27. kli586

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    Did you get accepted last Friday?
     
  28. yolo0987

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    Z
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  29. shadow522

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    that doesn't make sense. schools are not allowed to release acceptance decisions until oct 15 *or the next business day if oct 15 falls on a weekend or holiday.
     
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  30. Lucca

    Lucca Will Walk Rope for Sandwich Moderator Rocket Scientist 2+ Year Member

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    Chiming in as a mod now: let’s let people protect their privacy how they see fit and only share information voluntarily, not prod them for it when they are asking an unrelated question.
     
  31. yolo0987

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    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  32. VSA

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    Just wondering if anyone heard from SUNY Upstate MD PhD?
     
  33. VSA

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  34. VSA

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    This is great information. So approx 50% of applicants receive at least 1 acceptance it seems when all is said and done.
     
  35. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    It is only 40-42% in recent years...
     
  36. VSA

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    thank you
     
  37. VSA

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    Just curious. The 40-42% is based on the number of applicants? Are there stats on percentage accepted based on the number interviewed?
     
  38. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    It is based on total number of AMCAS applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance divided by total number of AMCAS applicants with at least one MD/PhD application. I have followed the stat for the past 7 years.
     
  39. VSA

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    Great, Thx so much!
     
  40. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Jan. 1, 2018

    Total number of applicants - 1816
    Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 292
    Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 1
    Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 2
    Currently Accepted (AC) - 289

    Average benchmarks for applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance
    cGPA - 3.82
    sGPA - 3.80
    MCAT - 516.9

    As it is in prior years, I expect about 775 MD/PhD acceptances with about 100+ WA (to MD programs) and about 20+ Deferrals to a later class (DF), for a class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students.

    An important point to many applicants who have multiple MD/PhD interviews but no acceptances. If you interviewed well, and your academic and research benchmarks are similar to students that matriculated in those programs, you have a great chance of getting in... ~ 62% of applicants who will eventually receive at least a MD/PhD acceptance haven't yet heard the news (just like you). Many programs haven't made decisions.
     
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  41. HamiltonPineapples

    HamiltonPineapples

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    Some schools (supposedly) make decisions in December, but don't notify applicants until January. Do these numbers reflect those decisions, or only the applicants who have been notified.

     
  42. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    School MD/PhD admission committees might have done initial decisions, but not offered yet. The next 3 big batches of MD/PhD acceptances are in the week after February 10th and the week before March 15th. The reason is that on February 10th, AMCAS releases to programs the national list of applicants with acceptances (which and how many), and on March 15th, programs have to have at least as many acceptances as they intend to have in their 2018 matriculation class. The numbers posted are as reported in the national system.
     
  43. mega_

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    One thing i am just curious about is how do the school manage having 2x amount of acceptances and yet get +-1 amount of matriculants? Do they just use statistics from previous years to decide of how many acceptances to give? Or do schools generally under-use acceptances, and then get people off the wait-list? Is there some type of developed and precise formula, or its more or less just a rule-of-thumb calculations? What if the school has made a mistake in the calculations and took too many students?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  44. Microbug

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    Depends on the program, probably a combination of the things you said
     
  45. druish

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    I'm wondering if the google calendar is a complete list of all the md/phd interview dates? For example, the last UPenn interview date is 1/18-19 but is it possible that they are hosting more interview dates and people haven't reported them yet?
     
  46. Fencer

    Fencer MD/PhD Director Physician PhD Faculty 10+ Year Member

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    People do email updates to the calendar coordinator, but they might neglect adding an extra day of interviews that was planned at last minute... I suggest to contact the program coordinator of any specific school requesting the information.
     
  47. bunnyluvr

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    So at what point in the cycle does it become impossible to switch to a school off the waitlist? Say you are accepted into School A and on April 30 they are the only acceptance you are holding. Then you start a summer research rotation there, you move into the city, you get a place to live, etc. But then in July you get off the waitlist to your number 1 choice - School B. Is it still possible to switch over to school B at this point?

    This question is easier for MSTPs that don't require a summer research rotation before the 1st year, but for those who do, can you technically leave the program for another one even during the rotation?
     
  48. Microbug

    Microbug

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    You can switch until you matriculate. I would believe doing summer rotation counts as matriculating, especially bc most of them are paid. It would be extremely unprofessional to switch school at that point after you have started at one school. Most schools recommend summer rotation but does not require it. Most start in June anyways so I can’t imagine it being a huge problem.
     
  49. shadow522

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    For people with acceptances and planning their second looks, if you are crossing the country to attend 2nd look and it starts at noon on a thursday, is it reasonable to request that the MSTP cover the cost of your hotel on the Wednesday night as well? (I won't be able to make the full 2nd look itinerary if i don't go on Wednesday...)
     
  50. bunnyluvr

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    This reply is kind of late so you might have an answer already but I suspect this is an entirely reasonable request. MSTP programs did similar things for interviews, so I suspect that they'd be equally if not more generous for 2nd look visits.
     
  51. Microbug

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    Mount Sinai waitlist
     

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