*** 2017-2018 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[bunnyluvr]

Mount Sinai waitlist

I guess we don't have a dedicated waitlist thread. Perhaps there should be one?

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[shadow522]

This reply is kind of late so you might have an answer already but I suspect this is an entirely reasonable request. MSTP programs did similar things for interviews, so I suspect that they'd be equally if not more generous for 2nd look visits.

Some programs were more than willing to accommodate my request. Others said no and that they anticipated west coast applicants crossing the country to miss most of the Thursday program : P

 

[Fencer]

UPDATE on 2018 AMCAS MD/PhD CYCLE

Total Applicants - 1815
Total Accepts - 358 (at least one MD/PhD acceptance)
Withdraw after Acceptance - 8
Rescinded Acceptance - 2
Currently Accepted - 348

By the end of the cycle, ~425 additional applicants will receive at least one MD/PhD acceptance. If you have 3+ interviews, your chances are pretty good to join them.

 

[tenuredMSTP]

UPDATE on 2018 AMCAS MD/PhD CYCLE

Total Applicants - 1815
Total Accepts - 358 (at least one MD/PhD acceptance)
Withdraw after Acceptance - 8
Rescinded Acceptance - 2
Currently Accepted - 348

By the end of the cycle, ~425 additional applicants will receive at least one MD/PhD acceptance. If you have 3+ interviews, your chances are pretty good to join them.

just curious, where is this information available?

 

[tenuredMSTP]

Hi,
How common is it to bring parents to second look events? One of my top choice schools says that we can bring a SO and/or parent along with us, but how common place would this be? thanks!

 

[Microbug]

Hi,
How common is it to bring parents to second look events? One of my top choice schools says that we can bring a SO and/or parent along with us, but how common place would this be? thanks!

Follow up questions, is it common for SO to attend second look events with us?

 

[Fencer]

Every school is different... Regarding source, it's only available to PD's.

 

[Maebea]

Parents are unusual; maybe 1 in 50 revisiting students bring a parent. While picking a school is a big decision on your part, it seems awkward to have a parent along. SO's are more common; probably 20% bring an SO.

 

[bluelamin]

School MD/PhD admission committees might have done initial decisions, but not offered yet. The next 3 big batches of MD/PhD acceptances are in the week after February 10th and the week before March 15th. The reason is that on February 10th, AMCAS releases to programs the national list of applicants with acceptances (which and how many), and on March 15th, programs have to have at least as many acceptances as they intend to have in their 2018 matriculation class. The numbers posted are as reported in the national system.

just to clarify, do you mean that by feb 10th the programs know the names of those accepted applicants? or is it just the number accepted?

 

[Fencer]

Beginning on Feb. 10th, the PD's know which other programs have a current acceptance to an applicant, but only for those who are currently accepted in that program.
On March 15th, PD's must extend at least as many acceptances as they intend to matriculate.
Beginning on April 1st, all PD's are made aware of all current acceptances for all applicants. In addition, the joint acceptance report shows all of the acceptances (current and declined) for all applicants that they have extended an acceptance.

 

[HamiltonPineapples]

How should we interpret a deferred decision (until March) from a MD/PhD program?

I could see it in one of two ways:
1) "We like you enough to admit you, but there were enough applicants better than you that we can't offer an acceptance yet" -> Likely to turn into an Acceptance or Wait List
2) "We didn't particularly like you, but your academics are good enough to offer you a chance if everyone else blows" -> More likely a future rejection

So I guess whats the most likely outcome of a deferred decision and how often are they from schools that do batch decision releases in January as opposed to a straight up rejection?

 

[bunnyluvr]

How should we interpret a deferred decision (until March) from a MD/PhD program?

I could see it in one of two ways:
1) "We like you enough to admit you, but there were enough applicants better than you that we can't offer an acceptance yet" -> Likely to turn into an Acceptance or Wait List
2) "We didn't particularly like you, but your academics are good enough to offer you a chance if everyone else blows" -> More likely a future rejection

So I guess whats the most likely outcome of a deferred decision and how often are they from schools that do batch decision releases in January as opposed to a straight up rejection?

I'm pretty sure it's a 3rd option, which is "we like you enough not to reject you, but we still have another round of interviews to do and so we want to wait and then compare you to those guys as well." Depends on the school though. If you're talking about BU, it's definitely this 3rd option. If another school, then I can't say for sure but a "deferral" in general means "we're not going to make a decision until we have more information."

 

[shadow522]

Question for the hive: better to post a school x vs school y post in the physician-scientist forum or the premd forum's help me decide forum?

 

[bluelamin]

Question for the hive: better to post a school x vs school y post in the physician-scientist forum or the premd forum's help me decide forum?

if its mstp vs mstp or mstp vs md then in ps forum otherwise if md vs md in premd forum

 

[Fencer]

UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Feb. 5, 2018

Total number of applicants - 1813
Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 474
Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 2
Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 6
Currently Accepted (AC) - 466

Average benchmarks for the applicants with a MD/PhD acceptance

cGPA - 3.82
sGPA - 3.79
MCAT - 516.7​

As it is in prior years, I expect about 775 MD/PhD applicants to receive at least one acceptance, with about 100+ to WA (to MD programs) plus about 20+ Deferrals to a later class (DF), for a matriculating class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students. Many times the deferrals are added at the end of the cycle, reactivating a prior application to a single school, so the final tally of total applicants increases by about 20 close to the end.

 

[Lucca]

question about letters: if one of your PIs taught one of your science courses, does their letter count as both a PI letter and one of the two required science prof letters? Asking because there are probably exactly 2 science profs who know me really well and he's one of em lol.

 

[Fencer]

Every school is different, but most places would say that is ok...

 

[Fencer]

UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Feb. 14, 2018

Total number of applicants - 1813
Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 499

Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 2
Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 8​

Currently Accepted (AC) - 489

Average benchmarks for applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance (with new MCAT):

cGPA - 3.82
sGPA - 3.79
MCAT - 516.5​

As it is in prior years, I expect about a total of 775 MD/PhD applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance. I also expect that about 100+ applicants will withdraw from this acceptance (WA) typically to enter a MD program, and about 20+ applicants who request a deferral to a later class (DF), for a entering class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students. March 15 is the next big deadline for programs, when as per AMCAS traffic rules: "4. By March 15 of the matriculation year, [each program must] issue a number of acceptance offers at least equal to the expected number of students in its first-year entering class and report those acceptance actions to AMCAS."

 

[TheJooce]

Is there a thread that has a collection of all the MD/PhD secondary questions for recent cycles, including this one? Trying to get a good sense of which schools will have the same secondaries as previous years so that I can plan mine out.

 

[sammyers_sm]

Is there a thread that has a collection of all the MD/PhD secondary questions for recent cycles, including this one? Trying to get a good sense of which schools will have the same secondaries as previous years so that I can plan mine out.

You should check the MD school specific threads. Someone usually posts the MD/PhD questions, and at the very least you'll have all the MD questions you'll still likely have to fill out.

 

[shadow522]

Is there a thread that has a collection of all the MD/PhD secondary questions for recent cycles, including this one? Trying to get a good sense of which schools will have the same secondaries as previous years so that I can plan mine out.

Maybe it was just the schools that I applied to, but to my knowledge, all of the MSTP secondaries I filled out were the same as from last year. I also think that it is perfectly fine to wait until the school sends out a secondary link to write yours. I waited and was still able to write/submit for each school within 1-1.5 weeks of receiving the secondary invite. (I was complete in June, so I received secondaries as soon as they became available in July.)

 

[TheJooce]

Maybe it was just the schools that I applied to, but to my knowledge, all of the MSTP secondaries I filled out were the same as from last year. I also think that it is perfectly fine to wait until the school sends out a secondary link to write yours. I waited and was still able to write/submit for each school within 1-1.5 weeks of receiving the secondary invite. (I was complete in June, so I received secondaries as soon as they became available in July.)

I would ordinarily wait to receive the apps and then write, but I'm getting married in the middle of that part of application season. I'd rather tackle as much as possible before all the festivities start!

 

[Microbug]

I would ordinarily wait to receive the apps and then write, but I'm getting married in the middle of that part of application season. I'd rather tackle as much as possible before all the festivities start!

CONGRATULATIONS!

 

[star_7]

I will be out of the country with no phone or internet access from March 10 – March 18. I am waiting on decisions from many non-rolling schools. What is the procedure to let the schools know that I am not reachable/available during that time? Should I give my parents contact number? Thanks!

 

[HamiltonPineapples]

I will be out of the country with no phone or internet access from March 10 – March 18. I am waiting on decisions from many non-rolling schools. What is the procedure to let the schools know that I am not reachable/available during that time? Should I give my parents contact number? Thanks!

I would email them and let them know. They may just wait until you get back if they make a decision. You can offer to provide info for your parents or whatever, but if they can't contact you either I don't see that having any benefit. So definitely call and email them to give them a heads up and ask if they want someone elses contact info.

 

[Microbug]

UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of Feb. 14, 2018

Total number of applicants - 1813
Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 499

Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 2
Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 8​

Currently Accepted (AC) - 489

Average benchmarks for applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance (with new MCAT):

cGPA - 3.82
sGPA - 3.79
MCAT - 516.5​

As it is in prior years, I expect about a total of 775 MD/PhD applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance. I also expect that about 100+ applicants will withdraw from this acceptance (WA) typically to enter a MD program, and about 20+ applicants who request a deferral to a later class (DF), for a entering class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students. March 15 is the next big deadline for programs, when as per AMCAS traffic rules: "4. By March 15 of the matriculation year, [each program must] issue a number of acceptance offers at least equal to the expected number of students in its first-year entering class and report those acceptance actions to AMCAS."

Do you know where the 775 spots come from? I image MSTP programs together with the well-known institutions with self-funded spots (UT, MDAnderson, UCDavis etc) covers about half of them. Where did the 400 spots come from?

 

[Fencer]

The national MD/PhD class at matriculation has about 650 first-year positions. About 75% of these slots are within the 48 (hopefully soon 49...) MSTPs. You can cross-list table B-8 or B-12 of the AAMC MD/PhD data tables with the current MSTP list of NIGMS funded programs. It varies from year to year. The NIGMS only funds 970 MSTP positions. The rest are funded by the schools using endowments and other means. Many non-MSTP programs, for example the 3 current non-MSTP programs in the University of Texas System (Galveston, Houston and San Antonio) are fully funded (tuition, fees, stipend and benefits) with an average of 5 slots each (all in AMCAS). Essentially all MD/PhD programs compete for the best applicants across the nation, state of residency does not matter. However, endowments and grants often require US citizenship or permanent residency.

FINAL DATA FOR 2017 MD/PhD CYCLE - some of this is described on AAMC tables
The 2017 cycle, for example, we had a total of 1824 applicants, 778 MD/PhD accepted applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance (43%), 32 accepted applicants chose to defer to a future MD/PhD class, 98 accepted MD/PhD applicants withdrew to MD only, and 2 accepted applicants had a rescindment of their acceptance. All of these admission actions resulted in 646 MD/PhD matriculants starting in Fall 2017.

 

[HamiltonPineapples]

What school is applying for the 49th MSTP

 

[Microbug]

I counted 49 on NIGMS list!

 

[Fencer]

One is a DVM/PhD (Veterinarian/PhD) - University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine, and they also have a MD/PhD program in the same institution within the School of Medicine.

It truly doesn't count for MD/PhD.

 

[Microbug]

One is a DVM/PhD (Veterinarian/PhD) - University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine

It truly doesn't count for MD/PhD.

Oh, my bad. They must be a very unique program.

 

[shadow522]

Oh, my bad. They must be a very unique program.

I have a friend going DVM/PhD. it is an uncommon program, but perhaps less rare than you might think.
americans in particular love their pets and will spend money trying to keep them healthy and to learn through research about how to keep them healthy/to help them live longer.

 

[Microbug]

I have a friend going DVM/PhD. it is an uncommon program, but perhaps less rare than you might think.
americans in particular love their pets and will spend money trying to keep them healthy and to learn through research about how to keep them healthy/to help them live longer.

I’m the kind of person who love pets as long as it’s not mine to take care of...

 

[shadow522]

I’m the kind of person who love pets as long as it’s not mine to take care of...

i honestly wish more people were like that. there are too many irresponsible pet owners out there. every time i see one it frustrates me to know end. in particular, i want to shout at people "IF YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO CARE FOR A DOG, THEN DON'T ADOPT ONE." sure we need to solve the animal shelter overflow problem, but inexperienced pet owners who are not willing/actively trying to resolve their inexperience are CERTAINLY not the answer....

 

[TurtleGnome]

I have a friend going DVM/PhD. it is an uncommon program, but perhaps less rare than you might think.
americans in particular love their pets and will spend money trying to keep them healthy and to learn through research about how to keep them healthy/to help them live longer.

One of the wealthiest normal people I’ve met does doggy braces. So many people want their dog to have “a pretty smile”. It’s insanity.

 

[Microbug]

One of the wealthiest normal people I’ve met does doggy braces. So many people want their dog to have “a pretty smile”. It’s insanity.

I feel like I’ve seen a lot of stupid things, but this just topped everything

 

[shadow522]

I guess we don't have a dedicated waitlist thread. Perhaps there should be one?

late to see that post. but I added my waitlist/withdraw to the rejections thread

 

[squishablecat]

Question — are any of y’all filling out FAFSA? I was under the impression that it would be kinda pointless to do so, since obviously our tuitions are waived + I think most stipends are generous enough that people don’t need to take out additional loans to cover cost of living. Thoughts?

 

[Microbug]

Question — are any of y’all filling out FAFSA? I was under the impression that it would be kinda pointless to do so, since obviously our tuitions are waived + I think most stipends are generous enough that people don’t need to take out additional loans to cover cost of living. Thoughts?

From a program: “You do not need to worry about completing the financial aid forms. The MSTP stipend and tuition support renders you ineligible for any additional financial aid while in medical school.”

 

[squishablecat]

From a program: “You do not need to worry about completing the financial aid forms. The MSTP stipend and tuition support renders you ineligible for any additional financial aid while in medical school.”

That’s what I figured, but wanted to double check just in case. Thanks!

 

[Fencer]

It depends upon the program. In some despite the fact that you will receive stipend, tuition and fees, you still need to fill the FAFSA because they use the information for particular endowments.

 

[~ME~]

@Fencer I was wondering if you had any more updates on the application cycle?

 

[Fencer]

UPDATE on 2018 MD/PhD cycle as of March 12, 2018

Total number of applicants - 1810
Total applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD acceptance - 605

Rescinded Acceptance (RA) - 2
Withdraw after Acceptance (WA) - 14​

Currently Accepted (AC) - 489

Average benchmarks for applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance (with new MCAT - n=597):

cGPA - 3.81
sGPA - 3.78
MCAT - 516.4​

As it is in prior years, I expect about a total of 775 MD/PhD applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance by the end of the cycle (There is realistic hope for people in MD/PhD waitlists, ~170 applicants will likely end up with a MD/PhD acceptance). I also expect that about 100+ applicants will withdraw from this acceptance (WA) typically to enter a MD program, and about 20+ applicants who request a deferral to a later class (DF), for a entering class of about 650 first-year MD/PD students. March 15 is the next big deadline for programs, when as per AMCAS traffic rules: "4. By March 15 of the matriculation year, [each program must] issue a number of acceptance offers at least equal to the expected number of students in its first-year entering class and report those acceptance actions to AMCAS." I currently see that my all of my accepted applicants for 2018 have multiple acceptances. Starting on April 1, the national list of current acceptances is released, and we have information about acceptances for our alternate candidates. We do not know how many of our accepted students (or alternates) are waitlisted elsewhere.

 

[~ME~]

Thanks!

 

[Fencer]

On April 1, the following national reports for AMCAS would be released to all Program Officers:

• National Acceptance report - This national report displays current Accept (AC), Early Matriculation (EM), Matriculated (MA), and Defer Matriculation to Future Class (DF) actions submitted by all U.S. medical schools. This is a long alphabetical list of all accepted students and includes all current MD/PhD accepted applicants.
• Joint Acceptance report - every applicant who currently has, or at one time had, an acceptance at the medical school program running the report and who had at least one additional acceptance (i.e.: at least 2 acceptances, that school plus another program).
• School Alternate report - current acceptances for all applicants listed in the waitlist (AL for Alternate) for that given program.

It is in your best interest to reduce your acceptances to no more than 3 at this point. If I look to the Alternate report to extend an acceptance and I see someone with many acceptances, I will much less inclined to offer my program's acceptance even if this applicant is the next on my list...

UPDATE as of 03/30/18
TOTAL APPLICANTS --- 1814
TOTAL ACCEPTED ------ 636
Withdrew after AC ------- 20
Rescinded AC ------------- 2
Defer to Future Class ----- 3
CURRENT ACCEPTED --- 611

I expect about 140 additional applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance that the end of the cycle. There is still a lot of hope for people who are in waitlists.

 

[HamiltonPineapples]

It is in your best interest to reduce your acceptances to no more than 3 at this point. If I look to the Alternate report to extend an acceptance and I see someone with many acceptances, I will much less inclined to offer my program's acceptance even if this applicant is the next on my list...

UPDATE as of 03/30/18
TOTAL APPLICANTS --- 1814
TOTAL ACCEPTED ------ 636
Withdrew after AC ------- 20
Rescinded AC ------------- 2
Defer to Future Class ----- 3
CURRENT ACCEPTED --- 611

I expect about 140 additional applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance that the end of the cycle. There is still a lot of hope for people who are in waitlists.

Do you anticipate more acceptances going out immediately after this report, or only as people start declining programs throughout this month?

 

[Fencer]

Every year, as this report comes out (April 1), there are about 70-100 people with more than 4 MD/PhD acceptances. It is a slow process over the next 6 weeks or so. It takes about 2 weeks to decrease to around 50 applicants, and then about 20 or so by April 21. I have no problem with people keeping 2 acceptances until the deadline, April 30, and visiting both programs in 2nd visits. I do have an issue with people hoarding acceptances ...

 

[isen]

What does it mean if I haven't heard back from an MD-PhD program yet?

 

[Fencer]

That you haven't been rejected as of yet. Perhaps, you might get a late acceptance. You can help your cause by sending an email of interest for that particular program with updates since your initial application.

 

[isen]

That you haven't been rejected as of yet. Perhaps, you might get a late acceptance. You can help your cause by sending an email of interest for that particular program with updates since your initial application.

What kind of updates should I include? Is it appropriate to mention that I have been accepted at other MD programs?
Also, I emailed the program director at the start of the month and was told that they would be sending out acceptances starting 3/20 but after looking at the AMCAS deadlines and this thread that does not really make sense.....