*** 2018-2019 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

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Lucca

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Given that the cycle is opening up this month and some applicants have been posting questions in last year's thread, I thought I'd get this one started.

I'll start with a question: What are others doing for their research descriptions in Work and Activities? Given that we already have this massive research experiences essay, do we really need to repeat ourselves in this section over and over (I did this and that experiment to study X, Y, etc.) ? Are there any good alternatives?

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I approached the Work & Activities section as though I were writing only for the MD committee (as oftentimes they review your application in parallel to the MSTP committee). I kept the research description here brief and non-tehcnical: where I worked, what funding I had, overarching goal of project, and findings/publications/etc. And then for the research description essay, I explained the background, hypothesis, methods, and results for each project in greater scientific detail.
 
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Hi! I'm also applying to MD/PhD programs this cycle woooo.
I'm struggling with redundancy in my application. I feel like I've written about my research 500x. I think writing towards MD adcoms for the work/activity section seems like the move, I appreciate that advice.

How are people handling publications in this section? If you have more than should they be put all under the same activity entry and just paste the citations and talk about them briefly? Is it dumb (or cocky) to put them as MM such that I can have more characters to talk about them?
 
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Hi! I'm also applying to MD/PhD programs this cycle woooo.
I'm struggling with redundancy in my application. I feel like I've written about my research 500x. I think writing towards MD adcoms for the work/activity section seems like the move, I appreciate that advice.

How are people handling publications in this section? If you have more than should they be put all under the same activity entry and just paste the citations and talk about them briefly? Is it dumb (or cocky) to put them as MM such that I can have more characters to talk about them?

for pubs/presentations, I included a brief remark at the end of every research description explaining what the work ultimately produced. For Pubs I would group all of them into a single entry and just list the title, author number, journal, and doi.
 
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Have any II's gone out yet or is it usually later than MD-only?
 
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Have any II's gone out yet or is it usually later than MD-only?

usually 1-2 weeks later than MD only on average. Some come out at the same time. Others the gap is bigger.

Here is my school list with first II send out dates for last cycle, MD and MD/PhD respectively. Theres no reason for these dates to be accurate for this cycle as well so take it with a grain of salt.

School / First MD II 17-18 / First MSTP II 17-18
Baylor /10-Aug /13-Sep
Chicago / 13-Jul/ 27-Jul
Columbia /15-Aug /5-Sep
Cornell/Tri-I / 18-Aug /18-Aug
Duke /11-Aug /11-Aug
Feinberg /30-Aug /16-Aug
Harvard /22-Aug /20-Sep
Hopkins / 8-Aug /14-Aug
Michigan /10-Jul /31-Jul
NYU /25-Jul /17-Aug
Penn /5-Sep /11-Sep
Pittsburgh /19-Jul /7-Aug
Stanford /21-Aug/ 5-Sep
Stony Brook /4-Aug/ 15-Aug
U Wash /28-Aug /3-Aug
UCLA /11-Sep /31-Aug
UCSD /11-Aug /12-Sep
UCSF /4-Aug /31-Aug
UTH-McG /1-Aug (MD IIs started going out 7/19 for this school this year)/ 10-Sep
UTSW /10-Aug/ 8-Aug
WashU /31-Aug/ 5-Oct
Wisconsin / 6-Sep/ 16-Sep
Yale 1-Aug/ 8-Sep
 
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What is a good application timeline for MD/PhD programs? For example, if I were to have my file complete at all schools by the first week of September, would that be considered late?
 
The AMCAS verification takes about 4 weeks, and that assumes that your transcripts arrive shortly after paid/submitted. Many secondaries are automatically sent beginning at 2 days after submission. MCATs also take about 5 weeks to report. Thus, we are talking to submit an application within 2 weeks from today, and taking the MCAT no later than the first week of August. Having said that, the best opportunity for someone with just average or below average academic benchmarks (MCAT/GPAs) is to submit on June 1, the first day of the application cycle.
 
I estimate that less than 10% of the invitation slots have been offered at this point. For very few programs, it will be slightly more, for the majority, none. Check out the National MD-PhD Interview/Revisit Day Calendar. Only about one-third of the programs have even submitted their dates to the communications committee of our National Association of MD/PhD Programs.
 
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I estimate that less than 10% of the invitation slots have been offered at this point. For very few programs, it will be slightly more, for the majority, none. Check out the National MD-PhD Interview/Revisit Day Calendar. Only about one-third of the programs have even submitted their dates to the communications committee of our National Association of MD/PhD Programs.

Thanks for the link! I was just wondering since last year more schools had been reported on SDN by this point than this year.
 
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@Lucca Given the unprecedented delays to verify primaries in June, I suspect that a lot more people applied early this year than in past years. It could be that programs simply have had more apps to review in July, pushing back the timelines.
 
This cycle is not truly unprecedented from the standpoint of primary verification. It has happen before and they are verifying at around 5 weeks or so. In prior years, we had even 6-8 weeks. Nevertheless, the change in traffic rules and the uncertainty of the process is what is delaying a little bit the process this year. Yesterday, we had a national AMCAS webinar that answer some questions and showed the draft of the Medical School selection webapp for applicants, and the corresponding tools... It appears that applicants will have more cloud and schools will have less information about applicants (for example, multiple acceptance report). This will likely lead to less total acceptances earlier in the process. Schools that can't over-enroll will be very cautious.

Beginning Feb. 15, applicants can show intent or fully commit to a program (THIS IS NEW). By April 15, applicants can't have more than 3 acceptances (THIS IS NEW). By April 30, applicants must choose a single program (Unchanged, except that AAMC will be a direct point of contact for the applicant).
 
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This cycle is not truly unprecedented from the standpoint of primary verification. It has happen before and they are verifying at around 5 weeks or so. In prior years, we had even 6-8 weeks. Nevertheless, the change in traffic rules and the uncertainty of the process is what is delaying a little bit the process this year. Yesterday, we had a national AMCAS webinar that answer some questions and showed the draft of the Medical School selection webapp for applicants, and the corresponding tools... It appears that applicants will have more cloud and schools will have less information about applicants (for example, multiple acceptance report). This will likely lead to less total acceptances earlier in the process. Schools that can't over-enroll will be very cautious.

Beginning Feb. 15, applicants can show intent or fully commit to a program (THIS IS NEW). By April 15, applicants can't have more than 3 acceptances (THIS IS NEW). By April 30, applicants must choose a single program (Unchanged, except that AAMC will be a direct point of contact for the applicant).

Very interesting. When you say intent/commitment on Feb 15th, does this count only for programs for which you have interviewed? Or only those that have already accepted you?
 
This cycle is not truly unprecedented from the standpoint of primary verification. It has happen before and they are verifying at around 5 weeks or so. In prior years, we had even 6-8 weeks. Nevertheless, the change in traffic rules and the uncertainty of the process is what is delaying a little bit the process this year. Yesterday, we had a national AMCAS webinar that answer some questions and showed the draft of the Medical School selection webapp for applicants, and the corresponding tools... It appears that applicants will have more cloud and schools will have less information about applicants (for example, multiple acceptance report). This will likely lead to less total acceptances earlier in the process. Schools that can't over-enroll will be very cautious.

Beginning Feb. 15, applicants can show intent or fully commit to a program (THIS IS NEW). By April 15, applicants can't have more than 3 acceptances (THIS IS NEW). By April 30, applicants must choose a single program (Unchanged, except that AAMC will be a direct point of contact for the applicant).

The Feb. 15 option to show intent -- what is the purpose of this? Is it the same as withdrawing all other applications? I guess I don't understand why there is a date for that (does that mean that, prior to Feb 15, applicants cannot make any decisions about acceptances?).

Thanks so much for all the info, by the way. It is really helpful for stress levels to have this additional layer of transparency in the process :)
 
pur·pose. ˈpərpəs/. noun.
  1. 1.
    the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

Admission officers (like me) are freaked out about this cycle. How can you project your matriculation class when you no longer have information about the multiple acceptances of our accepted applicants? Starting on October 15, programs can offer acceptances. Accepted applicants and programs can have conversations about a particular program. They can ask for a letter of intent and a modest deposit. Programs CAN NOT ask for commitment (except for early matriculation) until April 30 or 21 days prior to matriculation. Accepted Applicants can offer commitment to enroll at any time after receiving an Acceptance. Almost the only way a program can rescind an acceptance is if you lied or did not disclose an issue that must have been disclosed (i.e. background check). Applicants can continue to interview, be on waitlists, etc. despite holding an acceptance or have indicated a plan to enroll/deposit to a program. At/on February 15, applicants can formalize that intent by indicating in this new webapp that they are planning OR committing to enroll. On March 15, every single program must have as many acceptances out there as spots that they are planning to enroll. Some programs, particularly top level MSTPs, only release acceptances until that time. If you were holding a "plan to enroll", you could send an email to the program director and indicate that you are committing to another place, your dream school. Plan to enroll is supposed to be the school/program that you would enroll if that was the end of the cycle, whereas commit to enroll means you truly are withdrawing from other places for consideration. On April 15, students MUST reduce to only 3 acceptances, and indicate plan or commit to enroll to one of them. They can change their plan to enroll after a 2nd visit. It would be unprofessional to commit and then withdraw to choose some other program. Programs no longer will be able to know who has specific acceptances, we will only know that an accepted applicant has at least another offer. At the end of the cycle, we will know who went where, but that will be late in the Fall of 2019.

Thus, the purpose of this tool is to provide some level of information to programs about the level of commitment of accepted students. If all my accepted students have multiple acceptances but are "planning to enroll" elsewhere, what would you think I will be saying to my "waitlist" students. Perhaps that a bunch of their peers are holding up their acceptance... Unfortunately, several state institutions can not over-enroll (i.e.: offer more slots than positions). Some take a risk of over-enrolling (adjusting enrollment in following cycle). Just keep in mind that ALL MSTPs except for 13 have between 5 and 12 slots. Even ONE over-enrolled student might be 10% of extra budget for that class. Each of you represent a commitment by the program of between 0.5 and 1 million dollars over your MD/PhD training.
 
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pur·pose. ˈpərpəs/. noun.
  1. 1.
    the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

Admission officers (like me) are freaked out about this cycle. How can you project your matriculation class when you no longer have information about the multiple acceptances of our accepted applicants? Starting on October 15, programs can offer acceptances. Accepted applicants and programs can have conversations about a particular program. They can ask for a letter of intent and a modest deposit. Programs CAN NOT ask for commitment (except for early matriculation) until April 30 or 21 days prior to matriculation. Accepted Applicants can offer commitment to enroll at any time after receiving an Acceptance. Almost the only way a program can rescind an acceptance is if you lied or did not disclose an issue that must have been disclosed (i.e. background check). Applicants can continue to interview, be on waitlists, etc. despite holding an acceptance or have indicated a plan to enroll/deposit to a program. At/on February 15, applicants can formalize that intent by indicating in this new webapp that they are planning OR committing to enroll. On March 15, every single program must have as many acceptances out there as spots that they are planning to enroll. Some programs, particularly top level MSTPs, only release acceptances until that time. If you were holding a "plan to enroll", you could send an email to the program director and indicate that you are committing to another place, your dream school. Plan to enroll is supposed to be the school/program that you would enroll if that was the end of the cycle, whereas commit to enroll means you truly are withdrawing from other places for consideration. On April 15, students MUST reduce to only 3 acceptances, and indicate plan or commit to enroll to one of them. They can change their plan to enroll after a 2nd visit. It would be unprofessional to commit and then withdraw to choose some other program. Programs no longer will be able to know who has specific acceptances, we will only know that an accepted applicant has at least another offer. At the end of the cycle, we will know who went where, but that will be late in the Fall of 2019.

Thus, the purpose of this tool is to provide some level of information to programs about the level of commitment of accepted students. If all my accepted students have multiple acceptances but are "planning to enroll" elsewhere, what would you think I will be saying to my "waitlist" students. Perhaps that a bunch of their peers are holding up their acceptance... Unfortunately, several state institutions can not over-enroll (i.e.: offer more slots than positions). Some take a risk of over-enrolling (adjusting enrollment in following cycle). Just keep in mind that ALL MSTPs except for 13 have between 5 and 12 slots. Even ONE over-enrolled student might be 10% of extra budget for that class. Each of you represent a commitment by the program of between 0.5 and 1 million dollars over your MD/PhD training.

So what effect do you think this will have on admissions? Will there be an even greater emphasis on gauging applicants' interest in the program?
 
I believe that schools will be more cautious early, but more active than prior years during April 15 - May 7 and late (May 8-July). This is how I project things:
  • Less early MD/PhD acceptances (Oct 15 - Feb 15)
  • First surge (Feb 16 - March 15) w same number of regular MD/PhD acceptances but to a lesser number of applicants. Programs won't know if you have 1 other or 12 other ACs, clogging the system.
  • Less initial movement during the initial domino effect period (March 16 - April 15) - deadline to limit to 3 acceptances is April 15 (I predict that more people will feel that it is OK to keep >3 AC and as I said earlier programs won't know that all/most of their accepted applicants might have 5-10+ ACs each, preventing extending additional ACs to their next applicants on their lists).
  • Greater movement than in prior years during the Second surge of acceptances (April 15 - May 7) period. As applicants might go from 10 to 3 on April 15, another active surge will happen.
  • Greater number of late MD/PhD acceptances to fill the entering classes - May 7 - July.
Some spots might be given based upon applicant's demonstrated interest on the program seeking the better alignment with institutions' research strengths (i.e.: greater chance of sticking to the program), rather than just pursuing the next best student.

Let me just say that programs can ask applicants about their other acceptances, but applicants are not obligated to answer that question.
 
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Fencer, thank you for summarizing the situation with the new traffic rules. I expect that we will make fewer initial offers than in the past. Our past practice was to offer positions to a multiple of our class target and to use a waitlist to fill the class when needed. Some of our initial offers went to individuals whom we knew were highly unlikely (</= 5%) to enroll here. It was like buying a lottery ticket: you were unlikely to win, but the cost was low, so you took the chance. When the multiple acceptance list became available in late winter, we would be able to handicap the likelihood of matriculation for each student, and, if needed, make additional offers. If they held offers from our aspirational group, we'd assume they would enroll elsewhere; offers from peers and near-peers would translate to 50/50 odds, and offers from schools generally considered less strong would be considered sure things, more or less.

We have not decided how we will approach the admissions casino this year. One thought is that we should not bet on the low-yield students. We will waitlist them to see if they show any continuing interest in our program; those that do might get an offer later in the cycle. This will result in fewer offers and a greater reliance on the waitlist. As you suggested, our approach to the waitlist is likely to focus more on alignment of the student with our institution, and less on offering to the next best student on the list. One could argue that this will lead to better outcomes, matching strength with strength, than picking a winner based on less important criteria.
 
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Hey guys! Long time lurker... first time poster. :)

I'm applying this cycle and just wanted to share a resource that has been really helpful for me. Some of the students in UAB's MSTP made this "Application Corner" (on this program blog that their students run) that functions as a how-to guide on the whole process. My school doesn't really have a pre-med advisor or committee, so this was super helpful for me to learn where to even begin with this whole thing and to get some perspective from a current student. I hope it helps some other peeps!

EDIT: Apparently I can't post a link because I don't have enough posts/likes, but you can find it if you google "UAB MSTP UnABridged." Then click on the tab that says "Application Corner" at the top. Maybe someone else can quickly add the link here?
 
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Silly question but what's the difference between "program" deadline and "complete deadline." For instance, Weill Cornell says that the MD/PhD application deadline is 9/17, and that the application must be complete by 10/24. Admissions | Tri-Institutional MD-PhD Program
I am probably going to be verified somewhere during that week (along with turning 22!) so does the date of primary submission or the date of primary verification matter to them? They do not give secondaries until the primary has been verified.
Thanks!
This is usually specified to allow time for recommendation letters to come in, since your application isn't complete without recommendation letters + MCAT score! So turn in secondary by 9/17, but letters can come up to 10/24. Date of primary verification doesn't matter except that it delays your completion dates.
 
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Sorry to be stupid, but the secondary + verified primary must be in by 9/17? Since I am unlikely to get the primary verified before then and because they give secondaries only after verification, I guess I will have to remove Cornell. Thanks for clarifying!

Other question: UChicago considers international applicants for MD/PhD on a case by case basis, according to their website. Yale says something similar. Would it be worth applying to those still? (I am Canadian but went to Columbia for UG).
Sometimes schools consider the "application deadline" to be just the primary, which actually might be the case here, since I just took a look at the website and it says "*MD-PhD applicants are strongly encouraged to complete their applications as early as possible. Items that typically hold an application from achieving a complete status include letters of recommendation and the medical college's secondary form." I guess in this case it means only the verified primary has to be sent in by 9/17. Nevertheless, I believe that Weill Cornell Tri-I does their recruiting fairly early and it's an extremely competitive program, so I would complete it much sooner rather than later.


I guess you can never really know until you try, but since you are applying later into the cycle, and they're already highly competitive programs, combined with the fact that you are international, doesn't all add up to a great chance. One way to gauge international friendliness is by looking at the profiles of current MD/PhD students, if they're available. Sometimes they list hometowns. Also, you probably already know this, but you likely have a better shot at programs that are not substantially funded by the NIH/branded MSTP, since it's a national grant. If you really want to get in somewhere high-tier, I might just wait until next cycle and submit as early as possible to get your best shot, especially as an international applicant... but I'm not an expert and also just a regular US applicant, so you should get a 2nd/3rd opinion.
 
^ I just checked MSAR and they said "deadline for submission of primary application." Since schools get applications when you send them but don't review until verification, then I imagine I'd be okay, but I will try contacting them and check.

As for applying, I asked Fencer and he said that I should apply and that the cycle is apparently slower this year. While trawling through old SDN threads, I also read that the big MSTPs, i.e. WUSTL, Penn etc. have more money and take more international applicants. I actually know a girl from my school (she definitely had a better GPA than me though) who is going to WUSTL as an international. I have decent stats: 3.74/521 and a good amount of research, so I think I may as well go for it. I'm doing a fellowship with someone somewhat famous/at a prestigious place during my gap year, so worst come worst, I'll blow another 3-5 grand with more experience. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts though, it's a long process and the community really helps!
 
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^ I just checked MSAR and they said "deadline for submission of primary application." Since schools get applications when you send them but don't review until verification, then I imagine I'd be okay, but I will try contacting them and check.

As for applying, I asked Fencer and he said that I should apply and that the cycle is apparently slower this year. While trawling through old SDN threads, I also read that the big MSTPs, i.e. WUSTL, Penn etc. have more money and take more international applicants. I actually know a girl from my school (she definitely had a better GPA than me though) who is going to WUSTL as an international. I have decent stats: 3.74/521 and a good amount of research, so I think I may as well go for it. I'm doing a fellowship with someone somewhat famous/at a prestigious place during my gap year, so worst come worst, I'll blow another 3-5 grand with more experience. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts though, it's a long process and the community really helps!
Cool! Fencer definitely has a lot more authority on the topic so I would definitely go with what they say. Best of luck! I'm sure you'll have a great cycle. We're all in this together haha.
 
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Cool! Fencer definitely has a lot more authority on the topic so I would definitely go with what they say. Best of luck! I'm sure you'll have a great cycle. We're all in this together haha.
You too! :) Fingers crossed for everyone.
As for great or terrible cycle, I defer to Mr. Dumas when he said, “All human wisdom is contained in these two words - Wait and Hope.” ;)
 
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For Long San Antonio: Do you think they'd (they=MD only admissions) be receptive to ITA if the reason I'm in the area is for my MSTP interview?
 
I suggest that you email the Dean of Admissions for the MD program. In general, they take the MSTP interviews for the MD interviews, but the decision process is dealt by a different admissions committee. You can be AC from MD and RJ from MSTP, or potentially the other alternative with one AC.
 
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I suggest that you email the Dean of Admissions for the MD program. In general, they take the MSTP interviews for the MD interviews, but the decision process is dealt by a different admissions committee. You can be AC from MD and RJ from MSTP, or potentially the other alternative with one AC.
Thanks you!
 
Quick question on AAMC MD/PhD applicant/matriculant school specific data. Are those numbers from the AMCAS primary applications, or are they based on secondary applications to schools?
 
They are reported by each school as per each of their procedures/guidelines. They are not uniform in how they are generated. AMCAS generates automatic reports about each of the schools based upon primary applications, but those are only shared with the schools.

For the 2019 MD/PhD application cycle - as of Sept. 1, 2018
Total number of MD/PhD applicants - 1295
Average MCAT - 513.23
cGPA - 3.72
Sc GPA - 3.66

Last year (2018 cycle), we had 1338 applicants at this point.
 
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Have any traditional Canadian applicants (from the University of Toronto) been accepted to an MSTP Program in the past few years? I should also mention that I should be getting a green card within the next year as my fiancee (also applying to MSTP Programs) is an American Citizen.
Going through the AAMC MD-PhD matriculation reports for the current century, I found the following instances of U. Toronto undgrads getting into MD-PhD programs: 2002, Baylor & Wash U; 2004, Connecticut; 2006 Hopkins & Wash U; 2007, Maryland & Penn; 2009, Boston U & Northwestern; 2010, Columbia; 2011 Hopkins & Indiana. There is no indication whether they were US citizens or permanent residents.
 
Going through the AAMC MD-PhD matriculation reports for the current century, I found the following instances of U. Toronto undgrads getting into MD-PhD programs: 2002, Baylor & Wash U; 2004, Connecticut; 2006 Hopkins & Wash U; 2007, Maryland & Penn; 2009, Boston U & Northwestern; 2010, Columbia; 2011 Hopkins & Indiana. There is no indication whether they were US citizens or permanent residents.
Thank you very much for this information!
 
When a school asks for your goals for your PhD as a separate question from your research interests, what to they want you to say? I really want to learn and hone a bunch of new research skills, gain an understanding of my field of interest, hopefully make significant contributions to it...is that it? It's a separate question from the research interests.
 
When a school asks for your goals for your PhD as a separate question from your research interests, what to they want you to say? I really want to learn and hone a bunch of new research skills, gain an understanding of my field of interest, hopefully make significant contributions to it...is that it? It's a separate question from the research interests.

I approached it the same way you alluded to in your question. When schools ask about the PhD in broad terms, they are using your answer as a way to gauge if you really know what you're getting yourself into from a graduate standpoint. I'd step back and ask yourself why you're interested in the science part of the dual program at all, and hopefully that will steer you in the right direction!
 
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Does it matter what PhD programs you select as areas of interest on secondaries?
 
No. We do not hold applicants to the programs they list on the secondary. It primarily helps us to figure out which faculty/students you should meet. I would not, however, list a bunch of unrelated disciplines, lest you seem indecisive or unfocused. Good list: Immunology, Molecular Biology, Microbiology. Less good list: Structural Biology, Public Health, Immunology.
 
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Does it matter what PhD programs you select as areas of interest on secondaries?

To follow up in my last post for future applicants: if a program requires a short essay for any of their PhD interest areas and you think there's a chance you want to do that PhD, it's best to bite the bullett and fill out the essay. Some PhD programs prescreen applicants, so you might not be able to easily add that PhD program later. (learned this today)
 
Question for those applying to Pittsburgh or those already in the program: the application asks us to check off professors in our chosen program who we'd like to do research with. Does anybody know if MD-PhD students at Pitt can do research with non-MSTP affiliated faculty?

There are a lot of CMU people that are not MSTP affiliated but have research interests related to mine.
 
Question for those applying to Pittsburgh or those already in the program: the application asks us to check off professors in our chosen program who we'd like to do research with. Does anybody know if MD-PhD students at Pitt can do research with non-MSTP affiliated faculty?

There are a lot of CMU people that are not MSTP affiliated but have research interests related to mine.
Yes, there should be a box below that asks you to reference two additional faculty at Pitt that are non-MSTP affiliated.
 
Yes, there should be a box below that asks you to reference two additional faculty at Pitt that are non-MSTP affiliated.

Thank you. I thought that's what it might be for but the wording was a bit unclear to me.
 
This is a truly useless comment, but secondary fees are ridiculous. Thank you, Vanderbilt, for probably taking my dignity, but not my money.
 
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This is a truly useless comment, but secondary fees are ridiculous. Thank you, Vanderbilt, for probably taking my dignity, but not my money.
+1 shout out to UT San Antonio, UT Southwestern, and UTMB too!
 
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Update: I called Penn and they said that if I think it's not relevant or doesn't add anything, then I don't need to write it.

Slightly more relevant question: Emory asks you to list all of your research experiences that are longer than 8 weeks. I withdrew from a research for credit course during my junior year. To cut a long story short, the person I met with over the summer decided he couldn't have me and passed me along to his friend who had zero funding, zero graduate students, zero postdocs, and basically relied on 2 undergrads, 1 who had no research experience, and me. It was not a good experience in any way. I was also dealing with some health issues at the time and my advisor told me to withdraw from it. Then, she said I wouldn't have to mention it, but in another more recent conversation, she said that some schools ask for all experiences and that I might have to list it.

I checked exactly how long I *worked* in this guy's lab and it was under 8 weeks. Do I have to list it for the Emory/Penn application? I'm obviously not getting a letter from him and have 3 other strong references and will be working for a fourth group as well.
 
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Update: I called Penn and they said that if I think it's not relevant or doesn't add anything, then I don't need to write it.

Slightly more relevant question: Emory asks you to list all of your research experiences that are longer than 8 weeks. I withdrew from a research for credit course during my junior year. To cut a long story short, the person I met with over the summer decided he couldn't have me and passed me along to his friend who had zero funding, zero graduate students, zero postdocs, and basically relied on 2 undergrads, 1 who had no research experience, and me. It was not a good experience in any way. I was also dealing with some health issues at the time and my advisor told me to withdraw from it. Then, she said I wouldn't have to mention it, but in another more recent conversation, she said that some schools ask for all experiences and that I might have to list it.

I checked exactly how long I *worked* in this guy's lab and it was under 8 weeks. Do I have to list it for the Emory/Penn application? I'm obviously not getting a letter from him and have 3 other strong references and will be working for a fourth group as well.
I don't think you need to list that. At the end of the day, that's not a significant research experience.
 
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I don't think you need to list that. At the end of the day, that's not a significant research experience.
Thanks! I called Penn office and they said it was unnecessary as well. I just hope my advisor didn't discuss it in her committee letter...
 
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